Any Bonsai people out there?

Kazujo

I have a Chinese Elm and I just can't seem to get the watering right with it. I'm using the "dunk technique" but I've read around and some people say this is the worst way to do it?

It's gowing indoors and the leaves are starting to droop and some have already dropped this is the second time it has happened.

Any advice?

dathi1

Keep spraying the leaves every day with a fine mister. Only water dunk ever 4-8 days. Feed with Bonsai feed every 8 weeks.Keep it away from central heating and out of direct sunlight. Diffused daylight through an opaque blind is best. Although its a bit late now for next year my advice would be plant it outdoors late June in a semi shaded area and water well. Take it back in early October before the frosts. This seems to give Bonsai great growth and foliage for the rest of the winter when re potted.

regedit

dathi1 wrote:

Keep spraying the leaves every day with a fine mister. Only water dunk ever 4-8 days. Feed with Bonsai feed every 8 weeks.Keep it away from central heating and out of direct sunlight. Diffused daylight through an opaque blind is best. Although its a bit late now for next year my advice would be plant it outdoors late June in a semi shaded area and water well. Take it back in early October before the frosts. This seems to give Bonsai great growth and foliage for the rest of the winter when re potted.

I got my bonsai tree 2 years ago from a grower in Dublin. She said not to spray the leaves as they will go black! Never sprayed them in fact. I water it every 2-3 days. Each time with less than laf a pint of water. I immersed the tree in water just a few times eventhought the seller said to do that regularly. Does anyone know where can one get bonsai feed in Dublin. Tried Atlantic and B&Q but did not find it!

Kazujo

dathi1 do you only water dunk or do you water with a can too?

On the subject of feeding alot of sites say that the likes of miracle grow are fine to use on them.

englander

I used to have a 7 year old chinese elm tree !

Gave it to the Mother in Law to look after when we went away for a few weeks and she very rarely watered it ! (despite detailed written instructions). All the leaves fell off and it looked dead. When I got back (and pretended not to be overly bothered that she had killed one of my trees - being the mother in law and that) I watered it and slowly leaves grew back and started to thrive.

Then after a year of thriving, I noticed that the leaves started going black and then they all dropped off in a week and I wasn't able to revive the tree. Still have no idea what caused it to die. (I did notice loads of tiny worms/maggots in the soil afterwards.).

I tend to water my bonsai (just three serrissa now) by watering on the top every other day. Occasionally I water them by dunking them into water of equal depth as the pot but scared that something (ie chemicals) lurking in the sink would kill the plant.

There is a bonsai shop in the Powerscourt shopping centre in Dublin off Grafton street - they are very good at advice and even offer a bonsai-sitting service where they look after your bonsais for you when on holiday. Everything you need can be got from there. They advised to mist the Chinese Elm (which I didn't do that often - but it still died ).

I did notice that Woodies sells bonsai compost - perhaps the bonsai food is hidden in a corner somewhere.

FranknFurter

First off, no offence meant to an other poster, but, DONT feed it just yet.
And with a JE, under no circumstances put or plant it outside.

Its gonna look raggy for a bit but leave any pruning till spring. (Specially root pruning. do NOT change the soil).

First off, cut back on the watering. yellowing leaves can be a sign of over watering leaching the food from the soil, *but* people almost *always* overwater their bonsai due to garden center "experts".......Once every 8 days is more than enough. The top of the soil should be almost dry to the touch.
Keep it away from windowsills & sudden temp changes, feed once every 4 months with ONE drop of ordinary house plant food to one mug of water.

Dunking technique is ok if done properly. You must let the water reach room temp, then place the pot in making sure that the water is the level of about 2cm below the level edge of the pot, it must never touch the topsoil as thats where the main roots are and can cause rot.
Leave it to suck up the water thru its drainage hole for no longer than 10-15 mins max

Spray the leaves no more than once a month and even then only very lightly, otherwise they may turn black and cause infection.

Any yellow leaves must be taken off the day before you do any of this.

If you tell me the age of the tree, and potsize i might be able to help more. A photo would be great if possible.
Also what room is it in and is it near a radiator or window?

(i have many bonsai btw, including a 36 year old JE and Zelkova these have always been the way Iv done it)

RiderOnTheStorm

on watering....

i have had some success with a variation on the full-soak-in-sink method. I place the bonsai pot in a small container (any size, as long as the walls of the container come up most of the way along the walls of the pot) I find old take-away boxes (chineese, indian, etc) are great. Then I simply fill with water. As the plant soaks up the water I can re-fill if needed. Its less work, and less messy than soaking in the sink....esp. if you leave the pot in the container (without water) between waterings.... it is not very apealing on the eye however, as the pot shape/colour/texture is part of the bonsai package.

anyone got any tips for watering while away on holidays? I have experemented with the shoestring method (in the bath, just in case!) with some success, but I wouldnt trust it for 2 weeks away.....

(this isnt a ground breaking post, but I just wanted to revive an old thread and see if there is any bonsai people out there)

Idleater

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

anyone got any tips for watering while away on holidays?

I usually ask the neighbours to water the indoor ones and last time, the outside ones got watered by the weather as it turned out.

L.

FranknFurter

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

anyone got any tips for watering while away on holidays? I have experemented with the shoestring method (in the bath, just in case!) with some success, but I wouldnt trust it for 2 weeks away.....

What type of tree is it and how old?

RiderOnTheStorm

sorry for the delay....camera problems!

This is one of my indoor trees. I think its a Chineese Elm. I have had it for 3 years, but I reckon it is about 10 - 15 years old.

FranknFurter

Ever wonder how the likes of B&Q, woodies etc have so many "bonsai trees" for sale at the same time?

There are suppliers, some in holland some elsewhere, who produce "bonsai trees" by getting these plants as seedlings, planting them into the ground for x amount of time, then when they get thick trunks, they lop them off about 6" (or whatever depending on how old they want them to seem) wait for a few branches to develop under the cut, rip em up, set em in bonsai pots an send them to the supermarkets & DIY stores.

The real way to tell is, about half way up the tree, is there a large "slice" usually has had wax put on it, where the "trunk" comes to a blunt end? If so, than its one of the above.

To me, they aint really bonsai. But Im a bit of a purist in that regard I spose

b

RiderOnTheStorm

I agree Franknfurter. They are only 'plastic' bonsai. I did see recently, how to cut off the trunk of a tree, just below a nice branch (cut trunk and leave branch thats above cut, ie a sort of L shape) then bend branch over the cut and glue or wire into place. The branch then becomes the trunk and its nice and tapered.....

...but these trees in B&Q/Woodies/Homebase (why DIY stores, eh?) are fairly useless. I think they are good for beginners, who dont want to fork out 50 - 100 for a good bonsai, and then kill it by over/under watering. (I speak from experience, as I have killed many bonsais when I started into this...but none for the last 5 years.)

They also look good during the summer when the leaves obscure the cut. They may be good for experementing with varities that you have no experience with, but the varities avail are run of the mill types.

I have some 5 - 8 year old trees (a few native pines, beach and ash....the oak died ) that I have grown from seeds and cuttings, but they are mostly in large-ish pots. I have put a couple into the ground to thicken the trunks & branches. I will leave those for a couple of years. So these will be bonsai that I have truely made myself.....very trad, but very slow!

Idleater

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

I agree Franknfurter. They are only 'plastic' bonsai. ...
I have some 5 - 8 year old trees (a few native pines, beach and ash....the oak died ) that I have grown from seeds and cuttings
...
So these will be bonsai that I have truely made myself.....very trad, but very slow!

I agree, there is nothing better than growing the trees yourself. There is much greater satisfaction from it. That and I haven't had much success with shop bought "fake" bonsai like mentioned above. They have all died within a year or so - which I put down to the change in conditions between where they were grown to their new home. However, I suppose they could die because the surgical operation of hacking their head off!

I have a 5 year old pine (last one surviving from 5). Two died early, one 2 years ago after a frosty night and the other this spring after the late frost got the two after I did the end of winter/start spring pruning of new buds.

Still though, the last one is a nice bushy tree and I think I can go and thin out a couple of "surplus" branches later this year.

I also am growing an oak "forest" with 5 trees in the one pot at the moment. I think they are about 2 years old at this stage.

L.

RiderOnTheStorm

nereid wrote:

... "fake" bonsai ... have all died within a year or so - which I put down to the change in conditions between where they were grown to their new home.

Same happened me! Hadnt thought of that.... I put it down to my inexperience and blamed the over/under watering!

nereid wrote:

I also am growing an oak "forest" with 5 trees in the one pot at the moment.

Yes, I have tried a 'forest' too. I took a tree that was about 3 years old, and planted it on its side. I read that the branches 'become' trees in their own right, and they will all be identical.... sounded great, but that was 2 years ago, and I only have 2 'trees' now! Not much of a forest....

Anyone got experience of this type of forest making?

FranknFurter

Bit of a trick for the forest making (not traditional I know but still, only a tiny deviation hehe) ;0)

Shave a *tiny* bit of bark (literally the size of a match head or smaller) opposite every branch that is to become a new "tree" being very careful to only go into the bark not the tree, and paint a tiny drop of rooting hormone on it.
While its under the soil hopefully, if you are lucky, it will begin to develop roots, but forest planting really is probably the most difficult type of bonsai to get going, reckon on 2 branches out of every 6 being useful.
The main thing to getting a forest planting going is to make sure you seal the branches you have cut off very very well, as they are *under* the soil normal sealing wax wont really do the job properly, I used to make my own from, believe it or not, a tiny peice of cottol wool, rolled into a tiny ball, dipped in a MILD fungicide mix and held over the wound with blu-tack, seemed somhow to work 90% of the time.

as far as late frosts go, I would always wrap the soil & pot in bubble wrap or fleece until the possibility of frost has passed, and remember to keep the pot off the gound (frost or no frost, the pot should always be on a stand, that goes for indoor or outdoor, even in a greenhouse!

Yeah, changing enviroment even from the garden center to the home is what kills most of those, the garden center usually keeps them with the tropical houseplants, so they end up going from too hot to too cold in the space of an hour. THEN people wonder why the leaves fall off. and the wiring on the fakes is awful, ever see how deep some of the cuts go? You can often see rust in the cuts too! Amazes me how they get away with selling them as bonsai.

b

FranknFurter

Oh!
Also, if you ever see an Ishizuki style bonsai for sale let me know, please!!

I made one many years ago but after 4 years I gave it away as a gift, been wanting one since but I've just not got the time to do another these days.

b

RiderOnTheStorm

FranknFurter wrote:

Shave a *tiny* bit of bark (literally the size of a match head or smaller) opposite every branch that is to become a new "tree" being very careful to only go into the bark not the tree, and paint a tiny drop of rooting hormone on it.

Yea, I read that in my bonsai-bible. Must try it next time. The tree is doing quite well (health wise), its just I only have 2 branch/trees, and its been a few years. I thought more branches would grow from the trunk after I lowered it to the 'ground'. My next step is to cut the old root-ball off....but I have to make sure the new roots have grown. I guess I will have to dig carefully to see if new trees have put down their own roots. Any suggestions?
I think I will try this again, learning from this first excercise (is that the core lesson of all bonsai growers? lol)

FranknFurter wrote:

.. if you ever see an Ishizuki style bonsai for sale let me know, please!!

There is a good garden supply shop here in Limerick, and they have a few trad bonsais.... havnt seen a root-over-rock type yet, but I will keep an eye out.

PS Lidl are selling Jap Maples this week....real cheap too... I think these look great as bonsais, so I am going to pick up a few and try out a few different styles.

FranknFurter

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

will have to dig carefully to see if new trees have put down their own roots. Any suggestions?
I think I will try this again, learning from this first excercise (is that the core lesson of all bonsai growers? lol)

If possible get somthing like a toothpick or chopstick and just scrape lightly where u think the root system should have formed, if you havent reached *somthing* by about 2cm then its not ready to lose its root ball.
Only bring the root ball to the level of the soil, a bit higher maybe so it leaves a very slight "bump" dont cut it off altogether (a lot of books say you should but Ive yet to hear of that being successful, it will be the main root to the trees for at least 5 years imho).

re lidls japenese maples, they would have to be free for me to grab some right now, BUT Marks & Spencers in liffey valley were selling some seedlings of Acer Pulmatum for 7 euro last week so if they are still there when I next get some cash Ill def be getting at least one

b

RiderOnTheStorm

FranknFurter wrote:

If possible get somthing like a toothpick or chopstick and just scrape lightly where u think the root system should have formed, if you havent reached *somthing* by about 2cm then its not ready to lose its root ball.

yup, that was the plan.

FranknFurter wrote:

Only bring the root ball to the level of the soil....

when I planted this arangement, the orig rootball was at the level of the soil (with a slight hill).... are you saying I should (gently!) dig up the orig rootball (and hopefully new roots from branch/tree) and bring to level of soil? Or is this advice for when starting a forest arrangement?

FranknFurter wrote:

...it will be the main root to the trees for at least 5 years imho).

wow, thats good to know! I was tempted to cut this year (after I had carried out an examination, of course) as it is 3 years in such position, but glad I havnt now. Another year or two will do it good!

RiderOnTheStorm

I recently read some advice to improve root formation. Basiclly it said cut off tap root, trim remaining roots as normal, and plant the tree in the ground (as opposed to pot) with a piece of slate / stone / plate directly below it. This prevents roots from going down and encourages growth outwards (and in a more bonsai-like fashon).

The tap root thing makes a lot of sense (i am surprised I hadnt read this before, but maybe I was reading wrong material)

Any experience on the plant-over-plate technique?

FranknFurter

I must say I did try that but it never worked properly (for me).

If the original root ball is pretty much at soil level I would recommend just leaving it another year, then you will give the new roots further up another year of easy growth for them to get stronger, it would be a shame to lose them at this point. You can always trim back if you see the signs of too much root.

Sorting out the way the roots grow, is an important part of bonsai technique its true, but the display itself overrides the roots unless they are really bad.
A lot of people get fixated on the idea of root trimming and training and end up with malnourished trees at least.

Got any pictures of the display? Id love to see it :0)

b