Game Wholesalers

Mitchomagic

Dose anybody know off any?.xbox,psp etc.

Thanks.

Ri_Nollaig

id assume that shops buy their stuff off of wholesalers who only delievery in bulk and if u were to go to them u would need something like a retail card too prove that u are in the retail business and not someone looking for cheap games


tbh tho i dont know :rolleyes: but im sure there is some reason y its not done often

dimerocks

back when gamestop were gamesworld they used to be the distributers but i dunno if they still do it since they changed.probably do though.

whiskeyman

Beaumex.
As far as I know, they're nearly the only distributor for CD, DVDS, and Games in Ireland.

Kenny_D

You can get wholesale lots in the wholesale section on ebay

jesus_thats_gre

Yeah Beaumax supply alot of places. I know Tesco got all their Playstation stuff of them and direct from Sony..

Azza

Sean Fagan Wholesalers on the long mile road in Dublin do Playstation 2 , a small amount of PC games and possible XBox games among numerous other things.

Beaumex do games and music alright but they are difficult crowd to deal with at first.

Sony of course supply playstation games as well.

Mitchomagic

Thanks for the info....

Kinetic^

The margin on consoles is not much. Peripherals and games is where the money is to be made.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

That's some bump for a first post - over 3 and a half years. :eek:

@Kinetic^ most people don't realise just how little a retailer makes from pure console sales. As an example based on the RRP of €399.99 a retailer can make as little as €14.00 on a PS3 console.

Kinetic^

Yeah I only know from spending some working in HMV during college, margins are a joke on them and it's why you often see shops forcing bundles upon people.

NeoKubrick

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

That's some bump for a first post - over 3 and a half years. :eek:

@Kinetic^ most people don't realise just how little a retailer makes from pure console sales. As an example based on the RRP of €399.99 a retailer can make as little as €14.00 on a PS3 console.

How much do you make on the software, because the last time I checked, even small independent shops sold games for a 200% profit without significant bulk buying?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

NeoKubrick wrote: »

How much do you make on the software, because the last time I checked, even small independent shops sold games for a 200% profit without significant bulk buying?

Last time you checked must have been many many years ago in a store that priced software at about €150 and never sold any.

We average about 8% on software. For example prototype releasing next week is costing us €44.89 vat inclusive to buy in. We're retailing that at €53.99 including vat. Take off 4% credit card fees and €2.00 approx postage and packaging we make a gross profit before paying for wages, premises etc of €3.45 which is a grossmargin of 7.76%

NeoKubrick

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

most people don't realise just how little a retailer makes from pure console sales. As an example based on the RRP of €399.99 a retailer can make as little as €14.00 on a PS3 console.

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

Last time you checked must have been many many years ago in a store that priced software at about €150 and never sold any.

We average about 8% on software. For example prototype releasing next week is costing us €44.89 vat inclusive to buy in. We're retailing that at €53.99 including vat. Take off 4% credit card fees and €2.00 approx postage and packaging we make a gross profit before paying for wages, premises etc of €3.45 which is a grossmargin of 7.76%

Heh

You classify a 3.5% margin on consoles, "little", but the "[big]" comparison to this figure to dwarf its profit is a margin of 7.76%?

Kinetic^

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Heh

You classify a 3.5% margin on consoles, "little", but the "[big]" comparison to this figure to dwarf its profit is a margin of 7.76%?

Great you quoted the %, good job. Which would you invest your money in to try and make a profit of €10 off, a €40 game or a €300 console?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Heh

You classify a 3.5% margin on consoles, "little", but the "[big]" comparison to this figure to dwarf its profit is a margin of 7.76%?

The "[big]" comparison is a word you have used. I wouldn't classify a 7.76% margin as been big at all - let alone capable of dwarfing another figure

Just because I said how little a margin was made on consoles did not imply a huge margin was made elsewhere. The only person quoting huge figures was your claim of 200% profit which is so far from the actual margins for independent retailers it's not funny.

NeoKubrick

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Great you quoted the %, good job. Which would you invest your money in to try and make a profit of €10 off, a €40 game or a €300 console?

What's your point? That a small risk for the same profit as a big risk is a better business plan, most of the time? That's pointing out the redundant obvious and why you're pointing it out is anyone's guess.

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

The "[big]" comparison is a word you have used. I wouldn't classify a 7.76% margin as been big at all - let alone capable of dwarfing another figure

Just because I said how little a margin was made on consoles did not imply a huge margin was made elsewhere. The only person quoting huge figures was your claim of 200% profit which is so far from the actual margins for independent retailers it's not funny.

Yes, I used it, because for something to be "little" there must be something that exists that is "big". This is simple logic. So, if you say there's little margin in consoles then there's a big margin elsewhere in your business. Unless, you're in business for the gamers?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Yes, I used it, because for something to be "little" there must be something that exists that is "big". This is simple logic. So, if you say there's little margin in consoles then there's a big margin elsewhere in your business. Unless, you're in business for the gamers?

That is a very illogical statement. Just because something is little does not mean there is a bigger version elsewhere.

What would you say to someone who works for a set 5% commission on the sales they generate. Sure 5% is very little but you must have something you make 70% on - surely ????

Or how about congratulations on your new baby - isn't she tiny - sure there's a baby next room that was 5 times the size !!!

Hi what's your business - well I own a company that sells cigarettes from vending machines in pubs. I make 4% margin - but surely you must sell something dearer that you make a lot more on. You probably have a shoe shiner built in to the bottom of the machine ! - I know you do, of course you do - you charge them for shoe shining and make a fortune.

I could rabbit on and on but point I'm making is sometimes the fact is the fact and notihing else is implied.

NeoKubrick

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

That is a very illogical statement. Just because something is little does not mean there is a bigger version elsewhere. [...]

Considering 'logic' is an absolute, a statement is either logical or illogical; a statement can't be very illogical.

Your counter-argument is spurious, anyway. All of your examples prove my point in some degree.

Since the ignorant person has no knowledge or comparison to draw from, the value of 5% is whatever (high or low) they feel at the time to say. If he had a comparison, either he'd claim how low or high that commission was because he'd have a comparison to that 5%. A baby is tiny compared to a grown human (see: comparison). A company in the cigarette vending machine business wouldn't say a 4% margin is small or big unless it was below or exceeded their margin for profitability from the business (see: comparison).

You can't say something is "little" unless you know there's something "bigger". Would you call the Wii a big console? When you figure it out 'why', give me a reply.

Kinetic^

NeoKubrick wrote: »

What's your point? That a small risk for the same profit as a big risk is a better business plan, most of the time? That's pointing out the redundant obvious and why you're pointing it out is anyone's guess.

First thing, if you're going to be a smart ass by linking to some thread I haven't followed then fair play, you're a superstar on the internet and should probably ask for a promotion. Clap clap.

Secondly, the margin on games for Pat is twice what it is for consoles is over a 100% better. It's redundantly obvious yet you still question his logic.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Considering 'logic' is an absolute, a statement is either logical or illogical; a statement can't be very illogical.

Your counter-argument is spurious, anyway. All of your examples prove my point in some degree.

Since the ignorant person has no knowledge or comparison to draw from, the value of 5% is whatever (high or low) they feel at the time to say. If he had a comparison, either he'd claim how low or high that commission was because he'd have a comparison to that 5%. A baby is tiny compared to a grown human (see: comparison). A company in the cigarette vending machine business wouldn't say a 4% margin is small or big unless it was below or exceeded their margin for profitability from the business (see: comparison).

You can't say something is "little" unless you know there's something "bigger". Would you call the Wii a big console? When you figure it out 'why', give me a reply.

If you're going to be completely technical about it ...

At what point in your logic do you draw the distinction between one business and another. Accepting your argument of the little having to have a bigger to compliment it - I would say to you, that me saying how little a retailer makes on a game console is in comparison to some retail sectors which make a lot more. Food is approx 20% - hardware up to 45%. Obviously I am referencing other higher margins when I say how little a retailer makes on the console.

However your position is that there must be a larger margin elsewhere in my business ( and that the margin on software is not enough to dwarf the margin on consoles )

Yes, I used it, because for something to be "little" there must be something that exists that is "big". This is simple logic. So, if you say there's little margin in consoles then there's a big margin elsewhere in your business.

My point to you is that you have narrowed the scope of the comparison to focus solely on my business and my sector when in fact your logic will only hold up if you are talking about the retail sector as a whole and comparing a wider range of margins etc.

You've made the same mistake when addressing the random samples I threw out earlier. A baby can't be compared to a fully grown adult unless you are comparing the two based on the criteria of human beings in general. You will never find an actual baby dwarfing by 5 times another baby.

The cigarette vendor is tied to the one general margin which is around 4% - of course I'm open to correction on that but it's around 4%. But going back to your quote above when that retailer says they have a low margin in comparison to wild claims from the general public that retailers make a fortune ( along the lines of your independent retailers make 200% on video games ) - your position is that somewhere in their business they must have a greater margin.

Ironically your answer to the person on 5% commission is more in tune with my points because you make the distinction in this case of having nothing else to compare it to. It's not right for them to feel 5% is too low until they have something higher to compare it to.

The bottom line is that margins within the gaming industry especially for smaller independent retailers are very low. Just because I say that games retailers make very little on consoles does not mean that we automatically have to make huge profits / margins elsewhere. Your logic and vast knowledge of dictionary definitions tells you that because I said how little - in order for that to be accurate - has to mean elsewhere there is a relatively bigger margin. This is completely accurate if you widen the scope to the entire retail sector but you have chosen to apply the logic too narrowly. I'd be tempted to say you applied it too simply ( because you say it's simple logic ) but I'm not too sure if that would fall foul of the absolute logic laws.

NeoKubrick

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

If you're going to be completely technical about it ... [...]

Understanding logic is simple: the application of it isn't; here's a great example.

It's not my argument: it's an axiom. You didn't answer my question: "Would you call the Wii a big console?". The reason 'why' you didn't is to the reason 'why' you wouldn't call the Nintendo Wii a 'big' console, because you know there exists a console bigger than the Wii. You can't distinguish an object from another unless it's different, and only by comparison of qualities, values etc. can you prove its difference in appearance or value, or anything you like. This is simple irrefutable logic. This is indisputable. Why are you seeking to dispute it?

You're now making up statements to argue against. My position isn't that in any business there should be a greater margin. My position was that if there's no margin for business to survive, there'd be no business. This is another axiom: businesses are set-up for profit. You understand this because you're a businessman, but see how you have trouble applying it in a complex example?


A baby can be compared to a fully-grown adult and normally and usually is when fully-grown adult comments about how "tiny" a baby is. The 5% commission example isn't even in sync with your argument, let alone in tune: because he doesn't have anything else to compare it to, he can't decide whether it's high or low to other commissions, which is in direct conflict with your argument that a low/high value can be attributed without another high/low value existing in the same context.

A cigarette vendor would only sell one product, and since he's not randomly applying prices to each packet for the fun of it, each brand would be the same price set by the vendor and therefore he would yield the same respective margin for each.


You, on the other hand, sell two products: hardware and software. I know for a fact that the profit margin on games is closer to 20% than it is to 8% (you can't really lie to someone who knows people in the industry...), and the profit margin on used games is closer to 200% (you didn't quite get that hint did ya?) and sometimes above if unscrupulous businesses decide that a used game looks new (and a quarter of the time, they're in pristine condition). Therefore, I knew you had a bigger number on the software to compare the little margin on the hardware. Why you posted such a "little" average may have to do with the fact that the readership of these gaming boards are your target market, and anything to persuade them you're making as little as possible from them is all good eh, middle-man?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

First of all I'm not going to battle with you about the logic of little and big for the rest of the year. Nor am I going to rise to the bait that you imply I have trouble understanding something as simple as a business needs to be set up to make profit. We could go around in circles and it's not very relevant to the thread topic itself. I also shouldn't engage in personal debates as a representative of Gamesnash so I must nip it in the bud before it becomes very personal and I do feel that is has become at this stage. it If it makes you feel good you can claim a victory and do a dance etc. but I'm not going to keep the "debate" up.

However with my Gamesnash hat on .....

I'm not lying about profit margins nor would I dare to even attempt to. To come on a forum like this and give innacurate information like you alledge would be professional suicide. :rolleyes:

Now your contact in the industry who is quoting a 20% profit margin is no doubt either

a) involved with a very large player like Game / Smyths etc buying in all cases direct from the publisher with quantity discounts and rebate deals etc

or ( and more probably and )

b) basing this on selling the item at the recommended retail price.

We are an independent retailer - in most cases dealing with a wholesale distributor who has their margin added to our cost price so we in general pay more to buy in the software in the first place.

More importantly: We also do not sell any of our software at the recommended retail price. The particular game I referred to has a RRP of €59.99. We are selling it for €53.99

If we were to sell this item at the recommended retail price and did not have to pay for postage and packaging this would certainly bring in a margin of 20% which would tie in with your figures.

As for pre owned games. You say that the profit margin is closer to 200%. A profit margin by definition can't be 100% or more becuase it is a measure of your profit as a percentage of the sale price. You can never make more profit than what you sold an item for so 200% figures can be discredited straight away.

The likes of the larger bricks and mortar stores make an average margin of 45% on pre owned titles. Gamestop were praised in the analysis of their financial reportss this year for maintaining the majority of their margin on pre owned titles. ( If memory serves me it slipped form 48% to 45% ) This fourm has many threads documenting "rip offs" on trade in credit. We make nowhere near this figure because we sell our pre owned games a lot cheaper.

This can be proved easily because we openly display our trade in values and customers can see clearly what each title is then being sold on for. I know for a fact that infamous on ps3 was available for €54.99 new and €49.99 pre owned in Gamestop Charlestown yesterday. We'd be selling this at €39.99 - having allowed €31.35 credit for it (€30.00 plus €1.35 postage paid ) The margin on this for us having paid the credit card fees and postage and packing is 11%. We have never been accused of ripping anyone off in regards to trade in credit here on boards.ie simply because we don't.

Again it comes down to you applying an industry wide viewpoint to us and frankly it's unfair if not malicious. We have been nothing but honest and open in our responses to peoples questions over our time on boards.ie and to suggest otherwise is not fair at all.

You have made various statements in this thread that imply our margins are 20% for new games and up to 200% for pre owned games and that I would be inclined to deflate the figures here for the gain of my business. This is clearly inaccurate as I believe I have demonstrated and is an insult to the intelligence of the members here.

More importantly though for us. You have as good as posted here that I have lied about the figures I quoted to you by posting that "you can't really lie to someone who knows people in the industry.." before going on to claim our margins are significantly higher than I have maintained.

Considering I have demonstrated clearly how you are wrong I ask you politely to withdraw that statement because it gives a very unfair impression of how we do business.

alastair_doom

for some reason I'm reminded of this....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Psp2EzTI7E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Psp2EzTI7E

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Well I can't get anything from You Tube to load.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

alastair_doom wrote: »

for some reason I'm reminded of this....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Psp2EzTI7E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Psp2EzTI7E

HaHa - finally got it to load. well at least I am being compared to the guy who was invited in for coffee in the first place. lol

NeoKubrick

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

First of all I'm not going to battle with you about the logic of little and big for the rest of the year. [...]

It hasn't become personal for me: it never does (just another mark). You stated several idiotic statements, and I corrected you; if you take that personally, you should reevaluate the fact that you're not the smartest guy in the world and then accept and get over it. You always had the opportunity to drop the debate because you're the one challenging irrefutable logic, not me. Now, you're dropping it but without retracting (something you ironically ask of me later on, wrongly) your idiotic statements and conceding what's self-evident anyway.

You know 'margin' was a typo, because that figure was originally described as in my first post:

"even small independent shops sold games for a 200% profit"


On the contrary, you've now demonstrated clearly how right I was. I claimed that if you suggest there's little margin on consoles, it would mean there's a big margin elsewhere in your business. In your last post, you've cited a 11% profit margin, but before, you were claiming that there's no bigger margin than the 8% you cited even if you said the margin on consoles was small (and that was the basis for your spurious argument against irrefutable logic). You lied when you said that there's no implied bigger margin than 8%, and you provided the evidence to prove it:

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote:

Just because something is little does not mean there is a bigger version elsewhere.

Gamesnash.ie (Pat) wrote: »

The margin on this for us having paid the credit card fees and postage and packing is 11%

Therefore, you're wrong. Considering that you politely asked of me to withdraw my statement when attempting to claim how I was wrong like a monkey attempting to reach an unreachable banana, you should now withdraw yours.

Gummy Panda

Wtf is this thread about now?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

:DI can only hope if not assume that the vast majority of people reading your posts can see through the smoke and mirrors.

I do believe that the debate was beginning / on the verge of turning personal and your post above reaffirms this.

You stated several idiotic statements, and I corrected you; if you take that personally, you should reevaluate the fact that you're not the smartest guy in the world and then accept and get over it.

would point to personal statements and not a debate on the issue itself. I've never claimed to be the smartest guy in the world nor do I feel I am but if you feel the need to address something like that then it would point to a personal issue.

So yes I wished to cease the part of the debate which was turning personal.

Now, you're dropping it but without retracting (something you ironically ask of me later on, wrongly) your idiotic statements and conceding what's self-evident anyway.

No - later on I ask you to retract a false and misleading statements and the implication that I was lying to the community here. A very different situation.

In your last post, you've cited a 11% profit margin, but before, you were claiming that there's no bigger margin than the 8%

Again a statement that nevermind implys, states wrongly, that I said there's no bigger margin than 8%. I said we averaged around 8% on software. Average by definition means some will be higher some will be lower. I never said that there was no bigger margin than 8%.

You lied when you said that there's no implied bigger margin than 8%, and you provided the evidence to prove it

See above.

My position was that the reference to how little a retailer made on consoles did not automatically imply a huge margin was made elsewhere. You yourself said that my 7.76% reference was not enough to dwarf the "little"

Heh

You classify a 3.5% margin on consoles, "little", but the "[big]" comparison to this figure to dwarf its profit is a margin of 7.76%?

Again I am at pains to point out that this was you applying your logic to my figures. After that I was attempting in vain to get you to understand that there is a difference between comparing a data sample of an entire industry to that of one unit within that industry.

You know 'margin' was a typo, because that figure was originally described as in my first post: "even small independent shops sold games for a 200% profit"

Fair enough but a 200% markup still equates to a profit margin of 66.67% which is still way over what even the high street stores are making and about 5 times our actual margins on pre owned games.

Therefore, you're wrong. Considering that you politely asked of me to withdraw my statement when attempting to claim how I was wrong like a monkey attempting to reach an unreachable banana, you should now withdraw yours.

I'm not wrong. You've quoted and used yet again incorrect and untrue data / statements - our margins are nowhere near what you have implied nor have I have lied or miseld anyone in my posts. That's what I am asking you to withdraw.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Wtf is this thread about now?

I was just about to post a summary

I'm going to do my best to summarise this long and I'm sure boring debate for most readers

• I made a reference to how little a retailer makes on consoles.
• NeoKubrick said that we make around 200% markup / 66% profit on software.
• I said that we didn't and supplied an example of 7.76% profit on the forthcoming prototype game.
• NeoKubrick questioned my 7.76% as being not big enough to compare with the 3.5% and used the term dwarf it. - implying to me that there was a margin elsewhere in my business to completely dwarf both the 3.5% and 7.76%
• A debate of farcical proportions insues as to what the term "how little" should imply about its equivelent "big" opposite partner. This debate itself was rightly mocked
• The debate itself was becoming personal so I felt obliged to withdraw.
• During the debate and intertwined with the little and large debate NeoKubrick stated or implyed that we make 20% on new software and 67% on pre owned. The actual figures are 7% to less than 8% on new games and around 11% on top trade ins averaging out at 8%. ( we sell a lot more new games than pre owned )
• NeoKubrick also stated and implied that the figures I quoted were lies and that I was deliberately playing them down for my own benefit.
• I have asked NeoKubrick to withdraw the statements.

That's about the whole thing in a nutshell.

I can certainly agree that there is a logical link between something being little and the implication that there has to be something large to go with it but the wider the sample the more accurate the link. In this case the logic was being applied too narrowly and to us as a business. Crazy figures were then quoted which I have to challenge / correct.

At the end of the day we are an independent Irish business providing the best prices and service we can to our customers. I'd love to be making 67% margins but the reality is for us to compete at all with the big biys we have to work off a fraction of that. It's to be honest quite frustrating to have someone quote inaccurate facts and figures which could alienate customers and then imply you're lying when you correct them.

Gummy Panda

I thought the big profit margin for game retailers was spurious/third-party accessories. Thats why all shops try to push an accessory sale at POS.