Expired Gift Voucher

HelterSkelter

I have a gift voucher for a flight lesson issued last December. Conditions say it is only valid for 6 months. The flight school now want an additional €25 "administration fee" to honour the voucher. The voucher cost €75 originally and the same voucher currently costs €80 so the price has only risen by €5, yet they want €25 from me. I am willing to pay the extra €5 but this is a total rip-off.

Thinking of taking it to small claims court. Do I have a leg to stand on?

Another point, there is a spelling error on the conditions of the voucher, they spelt valid as "vaild" when specifing how long the voucher is valid for. "Voucher is vaild for 6 months from date of issue". Does this mean their condition is invalid?!!!

BrianD

I though gift vouchers didn't expire or at least had quite a long expiry date. It's fair enough if the price increases and you can put the voucher against the cost and pay for the rest.

Ask at the Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs www.odca.ie and then go back to your supplier.

BrianD

Actually it looks like you will have to pay the €25. The following from the ODCA site ...

A voucher for Driving Lessons is valid for 3 months but consumer cannot avail of the lessons in the time period ?

It is at the sellers' discretion as to how long a voucher is valid.
If the seller is not willing to extend the time frame, that is their right.
Consumer could consider passing the voucher on to someone else, or selling it.

HelterSkelter

Thanks for that. Looked at the odca site earlier and couldn't find anything.

Dammit anyway, well I am not going down without a fight!! If they are going to get an extra €25 off me they are going to work for it!! Small Claims Court is the next step. I heard they are more sympathetic towards the customer. Plus the company might not be willing to waste an hour or two in court, they might just let me away with the 25 quid :-)

BrianD

But you don't really have a case! It gives the expiry date and they have a right, it appears, not to extend it. They are giving you an opportunity to redeem it although at a discounted rate. Yes, it is a bit unfair as by buying a voucher you have essentially prepaid for your lesson. Although the ODCA site gives the driving lesson example, I am sure that there was some recent changes to the validity of vouchers. I would strongly recommend that you contact the ODCA before either contacting the flying school again or lodging a claim in the small claims court.

One of the problems with Irish folk in general is that we don't know how to complain effectively. Follow the due process before ringing the solicitor and threatening hell and high water! Suppliers are often amenable to well reasoned and delivered 'complaints'.

MorningStar

There is no case at all. The terms of agreement are a fixed and stated on purchase. A business is not expected to leave liabilities indefinitely and leave itself open to fraud . There isn't even anything worth complaining about.

HelterSkelter

MorningStar wrote:

There is no case at all. The terms of agreement are a fixed and stated on purchase. A business is not expected to leave liabilities indefinitely and leave itself open to fraud . There isn't even anything worth complaining about.

Indefinitely!!! It's only 9 months. They can easily verify who I am, I can produce the same credit card I used to purchase the voucher. I have never come accross such an unfair condition as this before. I have vouchers from HMV, Square Shopping Centre, etc at home and none of them have an expiry date.

HelterSkelter

BrianD wrote:

...I would strongly recommend that you contact the ODCA before either contacting the flying school again or lodging a claim in the small claims court.

One of the problems with Irish folk in general is that we don't know how to complain effectively. Follow the due process before ringing the solicitor and threatening hell and high water! Suppliers are often amenable to well reasoned and delivered 'complaints'.

I have already typed up a letter of complaint to one of the members of management. I'll see what his response is before taking it further.

I just noticed a section on unfair terms in contracts on the ODCA website.Do you think this qualifies as a contract?

What is an UNFAIR TERM ?

It is a term in a standard contract which causes a significant imbalance in the parties rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer. However, this is subject to a test of "good faith" (as set out in Schedule 2 of the legislation) and does not apply to contracts negotiated individually between the parties.

What contracts are covered?

All standard contracts which enable a consumer, acting outside his business trade or profession, to buy goods and services, are covered, except when the contract is individually negotiated by the parties. This includes insurance contracts (which are dealt with by the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority (IFSRA)), but it excludes among other types of contract, redundancy, employment, family law, succession matters.

Who decides whether a term in a contract is unfair?

Ultimately, only a Court can give a decision on whether a term is unfair. However, ODCA will look at cases which appear to be unfair, and investigate them

Cuauhtemoc

It does seem a bit ridiculous that(if we think in cash terms) that your €75 voucher which now costs €80 is effectively costing you €100.
Why can't they just charge the extra fiver which is what it costs today.
Administrative costs my ****.

Yes i know the voucher has expired and they could give you nothing but still. Goodwill and all that never hurts business.

BrianD

Yes but the validity of the voucher has clearly stated on it. The buyer has purchased the voucher on the basis that the bearer can claim a flying lesson to the value of €75 within the specified time frame. That's what the contract of sale is. It is fair and square.

The same thing happens regularly to people who after passing their driving test don't exchange the certificate for a drivers licence within the timeframe. They get all hot and bothered when they are forced to resit their test. Read the terms and conditions!

HelterSkelter

Well I will do my best to get my flying lesson for €75, or €80. If not, they are going to have to go through some hassle for that €25 rip-off administration fee

Branoic

What the hell are you talking about? Rip off €25? The voucher expired. Tough luck. They're being very generous in my opinion. If you wanted to take a flying lesson three months after your voucher expired then they would be well within their rights to charge you full price again for the lesson, ie €80. As it is, by paying €75 for a voucher you never used (your fault, not theirs) and then a €25 penalty for not using it, they ARE showing good will. Sorry mate, no sympathy for you, and I doubt a judge in the country would have any either. It's all about the Terms and Conditions.

Hagar

Naturally the voucher would not have been handed over until the cash/cc slip was safely in the hands of the flying school. So at that point the contract between you an the flying school was executed. The terms printed on the voucher seem to be binding but was the purchaser made aware of the time limit prior to actual purchase? If not, it could be argued that the conditions printed on the voucher are an attempt to unilaterally vary the terms of an existing contract as they were only disclosed to you after the actual contract was executed.

HelterSkelter

Hagar wrote:

Naturally the voucher would not have been handed over until the cash/cc slip was safely in the hands of the flying school. So at that point the contract between you an the flying school was executed. The terms printed on the voucher seem to be binding but was the purchaser made aware of the time limit prior to actual purchase? If not, it could be argued that the conditions printed on the voucher are an attempt to unilaterally vary the terms of an existing contract as they were only disclosed to you after the actual contract was executed.

Interesting point, I was not told about this condition prior to paying for the voucher.

HelterSkelter

Branoic wrote:

What the hell are you talking about? Rip off €25? The voucher expired. Tough luck. They're being very generous in my opinion. If you wanted to take a flying lesson three months after your voucher expired then they would be well within their rights to charge you full price again for the lesson, ie €80. As it is, by paying €75 for a voucher you never used (your fault, not theirs) and then a €25 penalty for not using it, they ARE showing good will. Sorry mate, no sympathy for you, and I doubt a judge in the country would have any either. It's all about the Terms and Conditions.

Branoic, the point here is it is an unfair condition and it should not be on the voucher. People buying vouchers are doing them a favour, it is money in the bank in advance earning interest for them. If everyone was to pay them 9 months in advance it would be a nice little profit for them. It also guarantees them business. If I gave the person the €75 instead of buying them the voucher they would probably have spent it in the pub instead of a flying lesson.

Gilgamesh

man get a grip of it already, the T&C is printed on the voucher, saying that it expires in 6 months after the purchase, thereis nothing the small claims court can and will do.
if you buy strawberries and they go rotten after the sellby date, will you expect the supermarket to give you new ones? I guess not.
they are well within their boundaries and there is nothing you can do, also I think it is quite good of them to offer you the lesson for a mesely 25 Euros anyway.

man what a lovely day it is today

HelterSkelter

Gilgamesh wrote:

man get a grip of it already, the T&C is printed on the voucher, saying that it expires in 6 months after the purchase, thereis nothing the small claims court can and will do.
if you buy strawberries and they go rotten after the sellby date, will you expect the supermarket to give you new ones? I guess not.
they are well within their boundaries and there is nothing you can do, also I think it is quite good of them to offer you the lesson for a mesely 25 Euros anyway.

man what a lovely day it is today

Yeah, fair play to them for charging me €100 (€25 + €75) for a lesson everyone else pays €75 for.

delly

HelterSkelter wrote:

Yeah, fair play to them for charging me €100 (€25 + €75) for a lesson everyone else pays €75 for.

Its a lot better than them charging you €155 (€75 + €80), which i reckon they'd be within there rights to do. I'm all for consumer rights but there was a date on the voucher, therefore its up to you to make sure its used within that date.

Chavster

When you purchased the voucher you agreed to be bound by it's conditions. If you didn't read the conditions, tough. If you don't like the conditions, tough.

As it is i feel they are being very generous by allowing you to redeem it even with a €25 charge. They could've just point blank refused and charged you for the lesson again.

Branoic

HelterSkelter wrote:

Branoic, the point here is it is an unfair condition and it should not be on the voucher.

Most vouchers out there have a use-by date on them. Its very very common. At the end of the year / quarter / whatever all businesses have to balance their books. The reason vouchers have an expiry date on them is to prevent someone from using the voucher donkey's years after it was purchased. If a voucher is purchased in one financial period and used in another there are potential problems. I know three months isn't donkey's years, but that's not the point. The point is its still after the expiry date.

Redeeming a voucher is NOT the same as simply paying cash for the lesson at the time of the lesson. The fact that you're trying to use the voucher after its expiry date means that in all likelyhood there actually ARE administrative problems caused, for which they're right to charge you.

Hagar wrote:

The terms printed on the voucher seem to be binding but was the purchaser made aware of the time limit prior to actual purchase? If not, it could be argued that the conditions printed on the voucher are an attempt to unilaterally vary the terms of an existing contract as they were only disclosed to you after the actual contract was executed.

I don't think this will wash to be honest. The contract wasn't "altered" after it was signed. The terms and conditions were always the same. It's the responsibility of everyone signing a contract to know the details. Ignorance of valid terms and conditions once a contract is in place is not a defence.

MorningStar

HelterSkelter wrote:

Indefinitely!!! It's only 9 months. They can easily verify who I am, I can produce the same credit card I used to purchase the voucher. I have never come accross such an unfair condition as this before. I have vouchers from HMV, Square Shopping Centre, etc at home and none of them have an expiry date.

They have an accountancy and pricing schedule the fact you can prove who you are means nothing. HMV have rather pricey vouchers produced with lots of in built protection and different accountancy policies.
I work with retail sofware and accountancy and they will redo thier books to fix the use of the voucher. €25 fee is not bad considering that and the time they probably have to put up listening to you.

Just because you don't understand costs don't make them not exist!

A Dub in Glasgo

One of the reasons it is absolute folly to buy vouchers

parsi

HelterSkelter wrote:

Indefinitely!!! It's only 9 months. They can easily verify who I am, I can produce the same credit card I used to purchase the voucher. I have never come accross such an unfair condition as this before. I have vouchers from HMV, Square Shopping Centre, etc at home and none of them have an expiry date.

The ones from Brown Thomas have expiry dates, a lot of vouchers have dates on them and that's why its good to keep an eye on them and maybe use them when you get them.

If they expire sometimes throwing yourself on the mercy of the supplier might work but to be honest its a case of tough luck really.

eth0_

HelterSkelter wrote:

Indefinitely!!! It's only 9 months. They can easily verify who I am, I can produce the same credit card I used to purchase the voucher. I have never come accross such an unfair condition as this before. I have vouchers from HMV, Square Shopping Centre, etc at home and none of them have an expiry date.

What is the problem here? The LAW states that it is legal to have an expiry date on a gift voucher, it's YOUR fault you didn't bother to check this when you got the voucher, you're lucky you haven't lost the use of the voucher completely and don't have to buy another voucher.

It might be 'unfair' to you, but it's perfectly legal.

HelterSkelter

MorningStar wrote:

€25 fee is not bad considering that and the time they probably have to put up listening to you....

Lol, you're right there, if I have to pay an extra €25 (x 2 cos there are two vouchers) I'll make sure they earn it!!

HelterSkelter

eth0_ wrote:

What is the problem here? The LAW states that it is legal to have an expiry date on a gift voucher, it's YOUR fault you didn't bother to check this when you got the voucher, you're lucky you haven't lost the use of the voucher completely and don't have to buy another voucher.

It might be 'unfair' to you, but it's perfectly legal.

Did you ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right"?? Well here I am, the customer!!

(Falling Down, such a good movie)

eth0_

HelterSkelter wrote:

Did you ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right"?? Well here I am, the customer!!

(Falling Down, such a good movie)

So if I buy a top in a shop with a 30 day returns policy and decide after 3 months I want to return it, I should get my money back or a credit note, because 'the customer is always right'? Get real! :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

HelterSkelter wrote:

Did you ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right"?? Well here I am, the customer!!

(Falling Down, such a good movie)

That was made up by a disgruntled customer. The customer is always right, until theyre wrong.

cormie

I've a £1 Golden Discs voucher with no expiry date on it, what's the story here so? Am I entitled to €1.27 off my next purchase?

boombang

My 20 cents on this issue.

I had an Arnotts card voucher which had gone beyond its one year expiry date. Their website says nothing about refreshing the card or retaining its value, so I went in anticipating a fight with a manager, but they sorted the issue without any hassle. The guy at the till said all I had to do was go to the information desk on the ground floor (near the ATM) and they removed the expiry condition on the card and pushed the expiry date back a year at no cost. I was very happy with this.

I said that I'd anticipated having to argue for the value of the card and felt that they should explain their rules for re-dating the card on the website. The reply from the girl at the desk was that she thought they deliberately don't put the policy up on the sit, as they'd then get loads of people leaving cards going years out of date and then coming back. While I might not think that's fair, I can see where they're coming from.

Anyway, the bottom line is there is no trouble with expired vouchers at Arnotts.

antocann

boombang this thread is 5 YEARS OLD