Is this a Transitional Year for Arsenal ?

Irish Gunner

I think we need to sign a new midfielder in Jan We did look short v Boro and lacked physical edge. RVP needs to start more games as he is more of a threat.
Hopefully we can prove the critics wrong but we need to perform better other than stringing 5 million passes together and finish up nowhere

The CL games should be our test especially with TH out

Arsene said

Seasons of transition have become the norm elsewhere in the Premier League but Arsène Wenger has no intention of following suit at Highbury.

Two defeats in four Premiership matches - plus the departure of Patrick Vieira - have prompted critics to suggest that Arsenal will have to settle for second-best this term. Wenger strongly disagrees.

"I don't see it like that and I fight very hard to convince the squad that it is not a transitional year," he said.

"I don't see why they should think that. Because we lost Vieira? We have lost big players before, we lost massive players before and came back and fought back very hard. We have the quality."

A precocious midfield duo of Cesc Fabregas and Mathieu Flamini have shared the load alongside Gilberto since Vieira left. Neither are natural leaders - at least, not yet - but Wenger believes others have come to the fore in that department.

"Plenty of players have impressed me," he said. "Thierry [Henry] has adjusted well and Dennis Bergkamp has taken a lot of responsibility and is advising the young players.

"Sol [Campbell] will be a leader when he comes back too. We have a very good spirit in the team but so much fuss is made about Arsenal.

"If you analyse the statistics, you will see that the best passing team in the opposition half is Arsenal and the best passing team in the final third is still Arsenal."

ntlbell

I don't know about it being a Transitional year, but it's going to be a fecking long one!!

Kingp35

No don’t think it will be a transitional year. Sure you have only lost one player! Are you telling me that the Arsenal team was entirely based around one player? I agree that Wenger needs to sign another central midfield player as Fabregas and Flamini are both still very young players and cant be expected to take over the responsibilities left behind by Viera.

TBH Arsenal real problem is that they are a one trick pony team. They can only pass the ball around and look for chances that way. They have no one in the box that is capable of winning a header, no one they can play a longer pass too who can hold up the ball, win flick ons for Henry to chase etc. they need a physical presence up front and until they get that they are never going to regain the league title and are always going to struggle in Europe. Its about time Wenger woke up and realised this

p.pete

Transition from good to not so good?

elbow316

Transition from good to not so good?

hmmm...so a team which won the league and went unbeaten all through it, breaking all kinds of records...is merely "good"???

ntlbell

elbow316 wrote:

hmmm...so a team which won the league and went unbeaten all through it, breaking all kinds of records...is merely "good"???

How about from a great team to a very average one?

Keano_sli

Yep you got it in one, Great teams win back to back titles, Fa Cups and perform in Europe. Picking up Doubles and trebles along the way.
Arsenal have always been a Very Good team under Wenger but never a truly great team.
Chelsea are currently a very, very good team but have the signs of becoming a great team over the next few years.
The United team of 1999 was a truely great team, competing on 3 fronts and winning some very tough games against class opposition to win a treble and that includes the Fa Cup Semi-final and repaly against the Gunners which along with the away game to Juventus are my hightlights of that season.

PHB

If you can honastly say that a team who goes through an entire season unbeaten isn't great without seeing how blind you've become, you need to take a step back from football.

Kingp35

PHB wrote:

If you can honastly say that a team who goes through an entire season unbeaten isn't great without seeing how blind you've become, you need to take a step back from football.

lads explain to me why your talking about a team from 2 seasons ago? That has no reflection on what kind of team Arsenal are this season

Roddy23

and to judge a team on how they are playing after just 6 or so games is just ridiculous. After all a league is decided after 38 games.

Pepe LeFrits

Keano_sli wrote:

Yep you got it in one, Great teams win back to back titles, Fa Cups and perform in Europe. Picking up Doubles and trebles along the way.

Complete crap. This is an imaginary divider that is spouted on about by the likes of Alan Hansen and other Liverpool/Man Utd followers because Arsenal haven't won back-to-back titles in a long time. Why does a team have to win BTB titles to be considered 'great'? What happens if two 'great' teams co-exist at the same time? (a common occurence in English football in recent years imo)

But back to the topic. It's too early to judge whether this is a transitional season. Personally, I think the loss of the 'idea' of Vieira was greater than the actual loss of the player, because he hasn't been playing well for a while. It'll take a while for the players to get over it. There may not be enough strength in depth and consistency in Flamini/Fabregas to win the PL but Arsenal could still easily win a cup or two. Arsenal played some fantastic football without Vieira last year, and I've no doubt that this Arsenal squad will still be able to outplay any team in Europe when on song. I'm not sure they can do it consistently every week for the league though.

Vieira aside, I think the rest of the squad is going to be a lot stronger this season. Hleb looks a quality addition, Reyes looks ready to take the premiership by storm, and the likes of Van Persie, Senderos, Clichy, Fabregas, Flamini etc will all continue to get better. Quincy and Lupoli could get the chance to break into the team too. At the moment Arsenal's style has been disrupted because the team lacks a 'go-to guy' in the centre, but it will adapt to a different style of play. Hopefully they'll find a new rythm soon.

Roddy23

does anyone know if the arsenal game is on live 2nite on the ntl sports package?

arbeitsscheuer

What kaids said ^^^

I'm not too worried, I didn't think we'd win the league anyway, but even so we're only 4 games in. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that Arsenal were top of the premiership after 4 games last season. Didn't count for f**k all come May tho, so why should 2 defeats in 4 have alarm bells ringing?

Arsenal may indeed be a one man team, but it's the Alsacien manager who is that man, not one of the lads on the pitch. And don't you forget it.

mr_angry

Its clear that the team aren't playing at their best, and also that Chelsea don't look like conceding a goal even... I think the concern in the Arsenal camp at the moment is more to do with how well Chelsea are performing. Yes, the Middlesboro result was a shock, but I think the defensive problems can be worked on, and we could have been 3-0 up in that game inside the first 10 minutes.

If there's any man that can fix this, its Wenger.

Pacifico

Anyone watching the match now?

Its painfull

Lemlin

No don’t think it will be a transitional year. Sure you have only lost one player! Are you telling me that the Arsenal team was entirely based around one player? I agree that Wenger needs to sign another central midfield player as Fabregas and Flamini are both still very young players and cant be expected to take over the responsibilities left behind by Viera.

Arsenal have lost more than just one player though. Pires doesn't seem to be performing half as well as he was, Ljunberg is constantly injured and when was the last time Sol Campbell had a decent run in the team?

Wenger simply hasn't got the strength in depth that Chelsea have. They lost Del Horno this week, but were able to replace him with Carvalho by moving Gallas to the wing. They still had Robert Huth, Glen Johnson and Wayne Bridge available. Arsenal have Pascal Cygan as backup or Senderos. That says it all if you ask me.

KdjaCL

Wenger and Fergie the only managers to win 2 doubles and rebuild each team after itin recent seasons, takes 2 seasons to build a team to win the league in normal football*.
Wenger has done it before and will do it again, i do see this really as a transitional year with only the CL or a cup as a prize at the end.

Odd tho both managers were giving time to build teams.


*Normal football = pre Chelsea and 400m spent on players, meaning actual teams who look and play superb attacking football and not park a bus and win 1-0 in the most dour horrible horrible arghhh!! my eyes type way.


kdjac

Kingp35

Am I the only one that feels arsenals problem is that they are a one trick pony and try to walk the ball into the net all the time. they have no variety in there play and they need a physical presence up front, someone who they can cross the ball into or hit it long to. Someone who can win knock ons for the like Henry and Reyes.

Until they get a player like that they will never win the CL. That is their major problem

KdjaCL

Kingp35 wrote:

Am I the only one that feels arsenals problem is that they are a one trick pony and try to walk the ball into the net all the time.

I used to think that and thought Viduka would have been a perfect signing for them but after seen how they play , you would have to be mental to want them to switch to playing long balls and playing with a targetman. Arsenal on form and with ball at their feet is simply the best football i have ever seen...ever...ever...ever.

I just hope they can rebuild and do it again but this time vs harder CL teams.


kdjac

Kingp35

KdjaC wrote:

I used to think that and thought Viduka would have been a perfect signing for them but after seen how they play , you would have to be mental to want them to switch to playing long balls and playing with a targetman. Arsenal on form and with ball at their feet is simply the best football i have ever seen...ever...ever...ever.

I agree with you. Im not suggesting they should change to playing long balls but if they had a player that could offer a physical presence on the bench then that player could come when needed and offer something a little different. They wouldnt have to resort to playing long balls. I mean Arsenal are a fantastic footballing side and they often play great football and get themselves into brilliant positions to whip the ball into the box. the problem is there is no one in there who could win a header and so they end up passing the ball backwards again. If they had the big guy in there it would just offer something different when they did get into those great positions. This type of player would benefit Arsenal allot in certain games.

Necronomicon

Wenger was definately on the right track with Baptista, it was a huge miss for them I think. Big physical prescence up front, just the option they are lacking. In important games in Europe they could be a goal down with 10 minutes to go, and teams will have the two banks of four parked on the 18-yard box. I think in cases like that they'll need to just hoof it into the air. Anyone remember (well, it's not as if it was a million years ago) the recent defeat to Chelsea? Into stoppage time and they were passing it from the back, Wenger was losing it on the touchline.

Kingp35

Necromomicon wrote:

Wenger was definately on the right track with Baptista, it was a huge miss for them I think. Big physical prescence up front, just the option they are lacking. In important games in Europe they could be a goal down with 10 minutes to go, and teams will have the two banks of four parked on the 18-yard box. I think in cases like that they'll need to just hoof it into the air. Anyone remember (well, it's not as if it was a million years ago) the recent defeat to Chelsea? Into stoppage time and they were passing it from the back, Wenger was losing it on the touchline.

Thats exactly what im talking about. In certain games you need a big man up there as its very hard to pass your way through a team with all their players so far behind the ball. Baptista would have been an excellent signing but it wasnt to be. I really Arsenal should look for a physical player as he could improve the team a huge amount

Roddy23

The one thing i noticed last night, and I believe most Arsenal supporters would agree with this to some degree, is that for the amount of opportunites that Arsenal have to shoot in and around the box, you very rarely see any Arsenal player with the exception of Henry.
For example last night, as a previous poster said Arsenal tend to sometimes walk the ball into the net. This was evident last night, when Reyes and cole were always looking for the perfect ball, when we all know Reyes has a cracking shot ( his first goal for Arsenal in the FA cup).
I for one know that this current Arsenal team has us spoilt, especially when i remember the dour football we used to play under Graham, and Houston.
But I was growing very frustrated last night, before Bergkamp managed to elude the defence and stick the ball away. Just for example, if we took the case of Fc Thun, we could see that any opportunity that they had to shoot they took it. Now Arsenal are far and away a much better side in terms of technical ability and skill, and if we could just shoot more often I think we could be out of sight of these teams in terms of scoreline.
They scored a goal when nothing looked on, and this was a mixture of luck, and because their team everytime an opportunity was there they tried to test the keeper.
I'm not slagging off our performance last night, its just something that I have started to notice a lot more recently. As regards the performance last nigth i thought Reyes played excellently, how many times was the chap injured during the match, but every time there was a 50/50 ball on he was up for it, and we saw that he was also prepared to pressurise the opponents, something which used to delight me every time Ian Wright was playing.

Lemlin

So you're basically saying that Arsenal need Didier Drogba!!??

Roddy23

is that a joke?
No I'm thinking more like Dean Ashton

applehunter

Are there many Arsenal fans in ireland?

Kingp35

Roddy23 wrote:

No I'm thinking more like Dean Ashton

He would be perfect for Arsenal imo. A top class player who is equally as good with the ball at his feet as he is in the air.

Lemlin

Drogba is one of the best players at winning the ball in the air and finishing crosses with his head that their is.

I don't think he's worth the 24 million that Chelsea paid for him but he is a valuable asset to their team, and I feel he always will be.

Even if they'd got Adriano or Shevchenko, if Chelsea were in a game, one goal down, don't you think Mourinho would throw Drogba on with 10 or 20 minutes to go?

He'd trouble any defence. Just look at poor Arsenal and Phillipe Senderos.

Roddy23

Sorry didn't realise you were serious.
I'm afraid i don't rate Drogba at all. As far as I can see, all he is, is a battering ram. The chap might have a bit of skill but so did Niall Quinn, but Quinny never went for anything like 24€million.
Also I cannot see Arsenal shelling out that sort of money for someone who you say might come on for the last 15/20 mins, so they can ,lump the ball forward to him.
Someone like Ashton would be a lot cheaper, plus he's shown that he could adapt to the Premierleague, with match winning performance last year including against Newcastle and Manchester Utd.
I'm sorry if Chelsea supporters feel I'm slagging off Drogba, just thats my opinion...

PHB

Drobga may not have anywhere near the technical ability of Henry or Van Nist, but the guy is effective at what he does.
A huge physical presence and great arial ability to get knock downs, and just hassle defenders.
Joint 4th highest scorer

Lemlin

I'm not a Chelsea fan but I admire Drogba. He's not just about scoring. The amount of ball he wins for Chelsea and the ammount of knock-ons and knock-downs he proivides that result in goals is very important to the Chelsea team as a whole. Do you think Lampard, Robben and Duff would get so many goals from midfield if they didn't have Drogba to hold up the ball for them?

He's started this season well and I fancy him to keep going. He's out to prove himself after the disappointment of last year where injury and the pressure of that 24 million move led to ineffective performances.

Arsenal wouldn't have to play him for 15/20 minutes. If they did get him, he'd be the perfect partner for Henry. Imagine Henry running onto the balls he'd won.

Fact is, Drogba will never be sold to Arsenal. I was just making the point that Arsenal basically need a Drogba-style player, that's the only part which I was being realistic about.

Kingp35

Lemlin wrote:

I'm not a Chelsea fan but I admire Drogba. He's not just about scoring. The amount of ball he wins for Chelsea and the ammount of knock-ons and knock-downs he proivides that result in goals is very important to the Chelsea team as a whole. Do you think Lampard, Robben and Duff would get so many goals from midfield if they didn't have Drogba to hold up the ball for them?

He's started this season well and I fancy him to keep going. He's out to prove himself after the disappointment of last year where injury and the pressure of that 24 million move led to ineffective performances.

Arsenal wouldn't have to play him for 15/20 minutes. If they did get him, he'd be the perfect partner for Henry. Imagine Henry running onto the balls he'd won.

Fact is, Drogba will never be sold to Arsenal. I was just making the point that Arsenal basically need a Drogba-style player, that's the only part which I was being realistic about.

And the best Drogba type player out there at the moment that Arsenal could buy would be Dean Ashton who also has allot more technical ability than Drogba. I must admit I am not Drogbas biggest fan. He has only ever had one good season in his career and that eas the season with Marseilles before Chelseas signed him. he was a big disappointment last season taking into account the money spent on him. I agree he does well enough winning the balls in the air though but Ashton could do a similar job as well as being very good with the ball at his feet.

He would be ideal for Arsenal who really need that type of player.

Lemlin

He was a big disappontment in goal scoring terms but he still does the job he was bought for: to win and hold up the ball.

Onto the topic though, I'd imagine Wenger has nightmares about signing another young English talent after the debacle of Franny Jeffers. That's why he was going for a proven talent like Baptista.

Roddy23

I'd love to see Lupoli, given a few runs this year, he sort of reminds me of Michael Owen, although I dont think his pace is as explosive.
Also I was delighted to see Wenger was prepared to call on Quincy against Thun, as I feel this player he will be quality in a few years, although ye never can tell ala Aliadiere.
Im not saying Aliadiere isn't as good as first thought, its just he has a tendency to get injured an awful lot.

Lemlin

Arsenal still need to shore up their leaky defence though, even if they do get a physical presence up front. Chelsea continually win games 4-0, Arsenal win 4-1 or 4-2.

Leaking goals may not matter when they're 4-0 up but it does show that they have a weakness which was expolited by Chelsea and Boro already this season.