FF Voters - if the next election goes wrong...

...as a FF voter myself, if they lose the next general Election, wonder how long you're going to give it before wringing your hands about the state of the country?

If contracts don't come within budget immediately I will start whinging about living in a rip off republic.

If people don't start getting operations the minute they request them within 6 months, I'll start making comments about a third world health service in a first world country.

If every town and village in Ireland doesn't have a brand spanking new school within 2/3 years, with a teacher for every student, I'll complain that we are doing nothing for the future of the country.

If house prices don't halve, I'll say that the Government has the interests of big developers at heart. If the price of a pint doesn't halve, I'll say they have the interests of publicans at heart.

If we don't put everyone working on bogs forthwith, I'll complain that we're in hock to multinationals. if we do I will comlpain that here is no future in fossil fuel and the government are doing nothing for the environment.

And if the (insert name of Minister for Justice) ever suggests there is any problem with immigrants or the Northern peace process, I will spend the remainder of his term calling him a jack booted Nazi fascist.

I'm looking forward to opposition already...

Lemming

Tell me, having listed all of the above - which is a fairly damning indictment of the gross and neglegent mismangement of the country - why are you a FF voter?

Because mommy and daddy are? :rolleyes:

I want to here YOUR reasons for voting for (and continuing to support) FF in the first place. Why aren't you voting for whomever would appear to have (and likely to deliver) the best manifesto? Why aren't you voting for whomever appears to have the bset credibility and professional ability? Why just "vote FF"?

and "because ... " doesn't cut the mustard as a response.

Lemming

Lemming wrote:

I want to here YOUR reasons for voting FF in the first place.

Because I remember what this country was like when Labour and FG had a good spell in Government in the 80s. I also believe the NI question is extremely important and should not be relegated to some side issue..

I like the smart comment about mommy and daddy though. About as strong an argument as saying the only reason you don't like them is because loike it's sooooo trendy now to have loike issues with the government loike. You got a beard and dungarees or just a pinko?

SnotNosedGit

I voted FF the last 2 times out.
I wont be voting FF again. I await options though and when the FF canvassers make an appearance at my door i have one question for them.

What mistakes have you made in the past and what have you learned from them?

If they cant answer honestly its going to be a broken nose for them

LFCFan

I don't like the argument 'Sure who else will I vote for'. The whole idea of voting this shower of muppets out is to show them that we will no longer put up with incompetance. And if the next government is as bad, we vote them out, FIRST time. If this continues, successive government will realise that they can no longer do a crap job or they will be out on their ear.

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

Because I remember what this country was like when Labour and FG had a good spell in Government in the 80s.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bertie government did not create the "Celtic Tiger". It simply presided over it. So FF aren't the glorious White Knights that you would have them portrayed as. Which lends credance to the "mommy and daddy" jibe.

I also believe the NI question is extremely important and should not be relegated to some side issue..

And what makes you think that current politicians in the other parties are not going to relegate it to some side issue. The current crop of politicians within FF have been shown time and again to be inept and clueless. How about looking at what a politician's (and their relevant party) policies of the day rather than some "rule of thumb" that's quite out of step and possibly (and probably) quite quite wrong.

Incidentally, whatever the majority of the citizenry want dealt with is what is deemed an extremely important issue. Just thought I'd point that out.

I like the smart comment about mommy and daddy though. About as strong an argument as saying the only reason you don't like them is because loike it's sooooo trendy now to have loike issues with the government loike. You got a beard and dungarees or just a pinko?

The reason I made the remark about 'mommy and daddy' is because most voters in this country vote like this. Given how "hardcore FF" you would appear to be, it stands to reason this is your view.

And no, I'm not a pinko. I'm just anti-bullsh*t.

Incidentally, reported for abuse.

Hobbes

Unless FF get an overwheming majority they are out of here. Other groups have already said they are happy to form a rainbow colition to get them out.

And the "mommy and daddy" voting method is probably why FF have so many votes.

Gurgle

Hobbes wrote:

Unless FF get an overwheming majority they are out of here.

I'll believe it when I see it.
& though I wouldn't give them my 10th vote, there are no other parties who can even mount an election campaign. atm i'd vote SIPTU into government just to see what happened.

Hobbes

Considering they never had a major majority before in previous elections and had to do a rainbow to get in can't see this being much different.

Mind you the company that won the contract for the electronic voting (by bidding way higher then any of the others) was an ex FF guy. But then last I heard those machines were all scrapped at taxpayers expense.

stevenmu

I've been a FF voter too but next time out I'm either not going to vote or deliberatly spoil. There's no way I'll vote for them again this time, but the opposition is worse. All see to be able to do is point out how bad FF are without presenting how they'd be any better themselves, even when asked in interviews they dodge the question. If FF are so bad and the opposition still can't come up with anything better it really makes me doubt their competency.

Lemming

Lemming wrote:

Incidentally, reported for abuse.

Tell me you are joking. You can't be serious. You actually went to the mods to bail you out over my remarks?

If mods want to examine this thread, I would have thought that the trolling in your initial post would be the issue worth examining - but I didn't feel it necessary to trouble them really, I'm sure they have plenty enough to do.

So please, was that some joke that I missed or did you actually get highly offended whilst think making an analogy that someone was childish and needed their parents for guidance was perfectly okay? If anything, I would have thought that some people might like having beards, or dungarees, or being mildly socialist, noone likes to be dismissed as childish...but tbh it didn't really bother me...

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

Other groups have already said they are happy to form a rainbow colition to get them out.

And the "mommy and daddy" voting method is probably why FF have so many votes.

That's not exactly constructive policy, cobbling anything together to make up the numbers. But I too share your suspicion that the opposition is devoid of real policy, and they will get votes from many who won't need incisive policy, but just hate FF and the PDs. That's why you have parties from the left hand end of the spectrum like the Greens having to decide policy with more right wing groups like FG and the Labour Party.

As for 'mommy and daddy', do FF just follow that trend, whereas Labour and FG pick up the young educated type who read policies and make a conscious decision that FG are better? That's just intellectual snobbery with echoes of the 'flawed pedigree' comment. I suspect so many vote FF because they are a heck of a lot better off in real terms than they were in 1987. Let's start with employment rates...

The Muppet

Lemming wrote:

Tell me, having listed all of the above - which is a fairly damning indictment of the gross and neglegent mismangement of the country - why are you a FF voter?

Because mommy and daddy are? :rolleyes:

Have to say that comment is very condescending to the OP. While what you say may be accurate for years gone by I think you'll find Ireland has moved on, people are far better educated and informed and quite capable of forming their own opinions with the need to copy Mammy or Daddy.

It may not be chic to Vote FF but the opposition have done very little to offer a credible alternative.

BTW I'm a floating voter before you ask.

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote:

Have to say that comment is very condescending to the OP.

I thought so too, but sticks and stones/live and let live and all that. Unfortunately others don't share that outlook, but I respect their views...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Hobbes

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Because they won't be able to form the rainbow this time. Other sides have already said they are willing to join together to oust FF (was on the news a while back).

regi

I think its fair enough to expect a 6-12 month honeymoon period for any new government.

I wouldn't like to see FF win an overall majority, however.

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

Tell me you are joking. You can't be serious. You actually went to the mods to bail you out over my remarks?

I'm not asking anyone to fight my battles for me. I questioned your rationale - it's a given that a vast swathe of voters in this country do, and always have, voted along the mentality of "mommy and daddy vote for X so must I".

Condescending, possibly, but in this context I think not. Trolling, most definintely not. You choose instead to respond with direct name-calling, ie. an insult.

If mods want to examine this thread, I would have thought that the trolling in your initial post would be the issue worth examining - but I didn't feel it necessary to trouble them really, I'm sure they have plenty enough to do.

Well let me say it again. I was not, nor am now, trolling. I asked you a direct question. I challenge your "I vote FF because .... well I dunno ... just because" mentality.

So please, was that some joke that I missed or did you actually get highly offended whilst think making an analogy that someone was childish and needed their parents for guidance was perfectly okay?

Once again read my above remarks.

I might also highlight the fact that you did not respond to a single question I raised, other than to try and use the fact that I reported your insult as some sort of high-horse stick.

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

As for 'mommy and daddy', do FF just follow that trend, whereas Labour and FG pick up the young educated type who read policies and make a conscious decision that FG are better? That's just intellectual snobbery with echoes of the 'flawed pedigree' comment.

I suspect so many vote FF because they are a heck of a lot better off in real terms than they were in 1987. Let's start with employment rates...[/QUOTE]

Now THAT is intellectual snobbery. Lets get one thing very very clear because you seem to skipping everything I write to get cheap shots in. Nowhere have I implied that FG or Labour or anyone else is better than FF. I'm asking why people don't stop voting with this sheep-like logic and question their representatives. See who actually has the policies that you want to see, rather than who just simply slates the opposition. Any f*cking two-bit f*cktard can point out what's wrong with a given situation. I don't want any two-bit f*cktard. And neither should anyone else.

If you want to look at employment rates, I'll bring you back to that wonderful little point which you so conveniently overlooked in your haste to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

The current FF government did not, the boom, create. They inherited it. And have somehow managed to squander vast amounts of money. And continue to do so in a rather damning track record of gross mismanagement and misappropriation of funds.

Lemming

Lemming wrote:

The current FF government did not, the boom, create.

True, in fairness we should all remember Ray McSharry's influence.

Unless again you're going back to 1987?

Gurgle

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Independants, all the way.

They are most likely to actually show up, for a start.
The might even vote on issues in the Dail, rather than voting in favour of the companies who dropped the biggest cash bomb into the party coffers.
They don't have to tow any party line.
Most independants run for election in the hope of getting something specific done or changed.

Just think, if the majority of seats went to independant candidates, we might end up with something resembling a democracy.

Current system is a 2-party power play where both sides agendas are corrupted by corporate (financial) influence.

Nuttzz

Gurgle wrote:

Most independants run for election in the hope of getting something specific done or changed..

But they never seem to do so, for example Finan McGrath

Gurgle wrote:

Just think, if the majority of seats went to independant candidates, we might end up with something resembling a democracy..

or nothing would get do at all....!

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

True, in fairness we should all remember Ray McSharry's influence.

Unless again you're going back to 1987?

And again I'm going to ask you to actually answer the questions I posed to you regarding your opening post.

Gurgle

Nuttzz wrote:

But they never seem to do so, for example Finan McGrath

Theres not enough of them. The few that do get elected can be ignored by the parties. Even if they support each others issues, theres not enough votes to make a difference.

Nuttzz wrote:

or nothing would get do at all....!

Possible.
Worth the risk ?
Not much gets done as it is, half the party TDs don't bother showing up for the 2 days a week / 8 months a year the Dail is in session. When they do come in its just to cast their vote as per party instructions(having been absent during the debate).

Thats not representing their constituents.

stevenmu

I'd agree, I don't think the party based system works at all. The party(ies) in power spends more time defending itself from the opposition and media, and trying to retain power in the next election than it does trying to do what's best for the country. The opposition spends it's time trying to bring the sitting government down instead of being constructive, rubbishing it's policies instead of suggesting improvements or even agreeing completely where appropriate. This tends to lead to snap decisions being rushed through on whatever is the issue of the day so that the government isn't seen to be doing nothing about it, instead of a considered approach to actually finding the best solution as opposed to the best sound bite.

miju

stevenmu wrote:

I've been a FF voter too but next time out I'm either not going to vote or deliberatly spoil

PLEASE DONT spoil your vote this is exactly how the muppets in FF have been in power for so long and keep returning to power IMO.

vote for an indie candidate if you dont want to vote for a party

Hobbes

stevenmu wrote:

The opposition spends it's time trying to bring the sitting government down instead of being constructive, rubbishing it's policies instead of suggesting improvements or even agreeing completely where appropriate.

I disagree. While they may do it sometimes they do actually agree sometimes and some of the policies being rubbished tend to get good reasons to (but rarely make the press). For example about the electronic voting machines, that was discussed in a dail session but nothing came of it.

miju

Deleted User wrote:

...as a FF voter myself, if they lose the next general Election, wonder how long you're going to give it before wringing your hands about the state of the country?

If contracts don't come within budget immediately I will start whinging about living in a rip off republic.

If people don't start getting operations the minute they request them within 6 months, I'll start making comments about a third world health service in a first world country.

If every town and village in Ireland doesn't have a brand spanking new school within 2/3 years, with a teacher for every student, I'll complain that we are doing nothing for the future of the country.

If house prices don't halve, I'll say that the Government has the interests of big developers at heart. If the price of a pint doesn't halve, I'll say they have the interests of publicans at heart.

If we don't put everyone working on bogs forthwith, I'll complain that we're in hock to multinationals. if we do I will comlpain that here is no future in fossil fuel and the government are doing nothing for the environment.

And if the (insert name of Minister for Justice) ever suggests there is any problem with immigrants or the Northern peace process, I will spend the remainder of his term calling him a jack booted Nazi fascist.

I'm looking forward to opposition already...

oh yeah and theanswer to all these whinges would be because the next government would be cleaning up FF's mess

_raptor_

_raptor_ wrote:

oh yeah and theanswer to all these whinges would be because the next government would be cleaning up FF's mess

Ah yes, and of course they were still cleaning up after the Fitzgerald/Spring debacle, and they in turn were cleaning up after Lynch, who was cleaning up...in fact we could take that argument right back to the foundation of the State.

As a few here suggest Independants, can anyone tell me what is Jackie Healy Rae's track record on the Norn Iron question? What has the bold Jackie done for the Peace Process? And for that matter, what about Mildred Fox, or Finian McGrath, or any other Independant, or even Joe Higgins? I admire their ability, I admire that whole parish pump mentality and the Independant banging on about a hospital or television masts or Moore Street, but I wouldn't put them in charge of the country tbh...

miju

ok let me rephrase the next government would be busy cleaning up the mess left by FF-PD after the mass oversepnding and complete disregard for spending public money without any PROPER results.

Tell me Conor can you tell in all honesty / with hand in heart the FF-PD coalition haven't fucked up one thing after another?

and regardless of Fianna Failures past escepades the main reason I'm not voting for them is their ABSOLUTE ABUSE of power with the "Corridors Of Power" excerise IMO this is blatant use of the governments position to raise money to fight their election unfairly and all involved in bringing this idea to fruition should be hauled up in a public court (not a tribunal cos that will only cost another €10 trillion with no results whatsoever)

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

Ah yes, and of course they were still cleaning up after the Fitzgerald/Spring debacle, and they in turn were cleaning up after Lynch, who was cleaning up...in fact we could take that argument right back to the foundation of the State.

Stop being facecious. You know fine well what he was alluding to. But if you want to get into that game, we can ask the current government why they haven't cleared up the mess left by predecessors, or more to the point, what have they done to attempt clearing up the mess.

The mess inherited is the fault of the last guy. The mess becomes your fault if you do nothign to redress it.

As a few here suggest Independants, can anyone tell me what is Jackie Healy Rae's track record on the Norn Iron question? What has the bold Jackie done for the Peace Process? And for that matter, what about Mildred Fox, or Finian McGrath, or any other Independant, or even Joe Higgins? I admire their ability, I admire that whole parish pump mentality and the Independant banging on about a hospital or television masts or Moore Street, but I wouldn't put them in charge of the country tbh...

The government (as would all politicians in the major parties in this country) would do well to remember that it is the people whom they serve. It is they who elect them. Not corporate sponsors. If this country cannot function at, as you put it, "the parish pump" then it cannot function at national level.

Whilst I have issues with some of the independents thinking and approach to politics, I find your attitude all the more worrying again. It reeks of what you accussed those attacking the current FF/PD government. Snobbery.