Champs League - villarreal v man utd

homerjay2005

well, how do ye think this will go?
what team will fergie put out?

i reckon giggs for park and ronaldo for keane will be the only changes from the last day, think we will scrape it 2-1..

PHB

You reckon that its going to be a Scholes-Giggs-Ronaldo midfield?
I highly doubt that.
That said, I'd like to see it, but its highly doubtful.
I think we could either see a,
Scholes Fletcher Rooney midfield, with Giggs on the left and Ronaldo on the right, which might not be too bad.
This game is going to be Fletchers game, important important game for him.

That said, I expect to see the following line-up, and will be highly shocked if this isn't it.

VDS
O'Shea Rio Slyvestre Heinze
Smith
Fletcher Scholes
Ronaldo Van Nist Rooney

Park might play instead of Ronaldo if Fergie doesn't think his head is in the right place, but I expect him to play, and I'm sure he wants to play, what a trooper.

I think fully expect a win.
Our defense has been highly impressive, and with Riqlueme not playing, I don't think we will have huge trouble.
Also we are always at our best in a full flowing football match, the last one which we played was against Arsenal in the FA Cup btw.
So I fully expect us to walk through Villareal's suspect defense.

Big Nelly

PHB wrote:

with Riqlueme not playing

Has this been confirmed.....from what I have seen he could still make it.....if he isnt then a Utd win no problem....he laided on all the goals for Forlan last season and everything was routed thru him!!!

ntlbell

PHB wrote:

That said, I expect to see the following line-up, and will be highly shocked if this isn't it.

VDS
O'Shea Rio Slyvestre Heinze
Smith
Fletcher Scholes
Ronaldo Van Nist Rooney

That's ideally what should be put out.

I'm really worried about the midfield tho, watching united without keane sometimes is heartbreaking.

I'm just not very confident about tonight and would be happy with 0-1 with the below formation.

Brown Rio Sly Heinze

O'Shea

Fletcher Scholes Giggs

Rooney Van

Never happen tho!

Keano_sli

Think I'd agree with your team PHB, but I'm still not convinced about Fletcher. I mean I know everyone says he covers the ground form Box to box but from what I've seen if he wins the ball he makes a bad pass and gives it away too easily. I hope he turns into the player Fergie thinks he is but I feel he will be out of his depth in the game.
As we were discussing in the Pub during the Derby on sat, this is the kind of game Smith needs to play in as well if Fergie sees him replacing Keane, In all fairness and respect to Roy he doesn't have the legs any more and is injury prone. Smith needs to be blooded in these type of encounters in midfield.
I'm always nervous about the first CL game of the season(group stage) and will be tonight but with Rudd and Roo palying so well I can see us scoring, its the midfiled rather than the defence that worries me now. But I'll stick my neck out and go for 2-1 to United. Rudd and Roo to bag one each!

The Insider

Have to say can't see Utd winning this one, has to be setup for Forlan to score. Watched Utd on Sat and was not that impressed, Smith will do a job in the middle of the park for you but when he comes up against top opposition I think he will be found out.

ntlbell

The Insider wrote:

Have to say can't see Utd winning this one, has to be setup for Forlan to score. Watched Utd on Sat and was not that impressed, Smith will do a job in the middle of the park for you but when he comes up against top opposition I think he will be found out.

Found out? It's not like he's hiding anything, he's not claiming to be a world class midifield general, and if you seen the reserve's match against I think it was sunderland or bolton, it doesn't need to be top class opposition to find him out.

The jury is still out on smith and will be for a long time and it could well turn out he's not the man for the job, but people have to understand it's not a like for like replacement for keane, if he can cut out a high percentage of balls and keep the passing very simple and keep the game flowing, I would be happy enough.

PHB

Why would Forlan score?
He got so many passes from Riqlueme and he won't be playing.
Even if he is, which is fine tbh, because these guys are used to Spanish football.
They did well in the Spanish league where teams attack a lot, almost Gung-ho, without discipline.
Its unlikely United are going to get caught out, especially with Slyvestre on such fine form, who can easily match Forlan for pace.
Also with VDS around and Fletcher breaking up play all over the gaff, I don't envisage Villareal having a huge amount of pressure on United.
I'd expect about 4 shots on goal, and one decent chance in the whole game. Probably from a cross

As for United, we have Ruud on form in europe.
Last season he was ****e in europe and still terrorised defenses.
This year will be no different, except that he is on form.
Villareals defense won't be able to deal with him.

And Ronaldo and Rooney for the flair.
I think we're fine.

super_furry

Can't figure out the Smith thing myself, for all his snarling and biting play, he's not half as tallented a midfielder as Keane is and will be wasted there - not to mention a liability. All the same, I think United should cruise to victory tonight, they'll prove too strong and experienced for a decent Villareal team missing their best player in Riqlueme.

d22ontour

After a poor display against city i can only hope that smith isn't picked to play in midfield as for most of the match against city the game seemed to pass by him.

Of the players available i would go for fletcher, park ,scholes ,ronaldo " if he is available" rooney and rvn up front.

Necronomicon

PHB wrote:

Last season he was ****e in europe and still terrorised defenses.

If he was ****e and became the top-scorer I can't wait to see him on form
I agree with the team though, you'd expect it to be that. About Ronaldo, Fergie said today that he could see in training that Ronaldo wanted to play, I expect him to be in the team.

Nimrod's Son

Riquelme or no Riquelme, I can see Forlan haunting United. It'd be a massive plus if Ronaldo were to play but only if he's psychologically up to it.

Jammer

anyone else get the impression united are just 'going thru the motions', they have no fight at all. No movement

mr_angry

Two absolutely stunning saves so far tonight - one by Viera and one by Van Der Sar. You'll be lucky to see two better before the end of the season. I was sure the Van Der Sar one was in, and I couldn't believe it when I saw him keep it out.

Davei141

Anyone want to puke listening to the commentary? Everything united do is 'terrible', everything they do well is 'fortunate'. Practically rediculing alan smiths every touch. Its an enjoyable game though, united unlucky not to have scored the goal line clearance.

KdjaCL

super_furry wrote:

Can't figure out the Smith thing myself, for all his snarling and biting play, he's not half as tallented a midfielder as Keane is and will be wasted there - not to mention a liability.

He cant tackle think thats fairly obvious from his numerous attempts which lead to red cards.

Even if Keane was playing he doesnt drive Utd forward like he used to so the game wouldnt be much different, utd need another striker to score, villa need a decent pass.


kdjac

Headshot

o shea is brutal mg ****ing waster

and smith mg he isnt good enough, **** you any way ferguson you should have got midfielders in the summer

ill say it again
i hate united formation

jonny68

What a save by Van Der Sar the best ive seen so far this season,could've gone either way 1st half,second half just started,best of luck to United

scojones

Rooney you muppet.

Pacifico

What happened?

scojones

He got booked(rightly so) for a challenge he made, upon getting a yellow card, he goes up to the ref and starts clapping right in his face, like, literally 1 inch away from his nose, very sarcastically. Just trying to intimidate the ref. Damnit

Jammer

rooney got a yellow, clapped at the referee and got sent of.

I didnt know FIFA didnt allow clapping these days...

The ref is too fond of his cards. He got caught in the moment, and well the rest is history...

Vokes

Rooney got sent off for dissent. Really hasn't been the best of weeks for him - temperment is still a serious problem for him.

Pacifico

Just saw it there. Very stupid...

scojones

Jammer wrote:

rooney got a yellow, clapped at the referee and got sent of.

I didnt know FIFA didnt allow clapping these days...

The ref is too fond of his cards. He got caught in the moment, and well the rest is history...

Come off it, you know what Rooney was at. You can't defend him. Damnit anyway!

mr_angry

Yeah. TBH, it was one of the clearest cases of dissent I've ever seen.

The Muppet

sjones wrote:

Come off it, you know what Rooney was at. You can't defend him. Damnit anyway!

He's a 19 year old who will learn by his mistakes.

Very poor performance from United.

Anyone know why Van Persie was sent off for the gunners?

Jammer

From the 2nd angle they showed it at, his hands were about a foot away. I think that is no where near a sending off offence at that level of football.

applehunter

Pissed off with RTE. :rolleyes:

They put up the line-ups with Requeilme in the team. I then put €10 on Villarreal only to come back to watch the match and see that he wasnt in the starting line up at all. :mad:

Hes there moet important player and he improves them an extra 30%.

scojones

Jammer wrote:

From the 2nd angle they showed it at, his hands were about a foot away. I think that is no where near a sending off offence at that level of football.

At what level of football would it be a sending off offense :rolleyes:

Seriously, he was sent off for dissent. He tried to intimidate / frighten the ref, he was slagging him off saying "yeah, i don't care about the yellow. Well done you're a great ref", that's what he was trying to do. Fair sending off IMO. Rooney needs to grow up and stop being so childish.

jonny68

SofaKing wrote:

Rooney got sent off for dissent. Really hasn't been the best of weeks for him - temperment is still a serious problem for him.

I agree it is still a problem for him and he needs to cut it out..anyway a draw was probably a fair result overall in a not great game although United were unlucky not to score and only for a brilliant Van Der Sar save in the 1st half would've went behind.

ButcherOfNog

The Muppet wrote:

Anyone know why Van Persie was sent off for the gunners?

Van Persie almost took a Thun defenders head clean off with his boot in a very high challenge, wasn't intensional, but was wildly dangerous. Thought it was tough that he got sent off.

ButcherOfNog

UTD were poor tonite, Rooney is a great naturally gifted player, but an even greater twat, with a vast air filled space between his ears where his brain should be.

Necronomicon

Rooney has been invaluble to us at times since he's joined, but tonight was just daft. And he's cost us too, United came out of the half time break all guns blazing and up to the sending off were dominating. I know it's easy to say now, but I think if he hadn't been sent off, United would have won.
What a save in the first half by Van Der Sar.

wheres me jumpa

we were just starting to get going when rooney got sent off. after the red i thought we were in for a thrashing but villareal didnt look the team i thought they were.
so i nthe end happy with the draw as it could have been a lot worse.

as for rooney...

hes an amazing player but his behaviour is a major fault. what happened tonight was childsh. the red card will prove a huge lesson. also he's relatively new to european football where the referee's arent as protective of him as they might be at home. this is still no defense.

i was actually just about to praise him for admitting he was wong for the previous tackle by offering his hand to the player. a harsh learned learned tonight.

KdjaCL

Utd defended very well, i thought O Shea had a great game nothing went past him downj his side but made some sloppy passes.


kdjac

evad_lhorg

Rooney is an absolute retard. i mean what does he expect to get when gves the ref a blatent "clap.....clap....". talk about disrespect.

d22ontour

I think united went there not to lose and got the result they wanted though the performance was poor.

PHB

I was happy with the preformance as a whole tbh.
We made some decent chances, I think Ruud should have put one of them away tbh.
We went there to get a draw, I think that was obvious, and we got it.
Now I want 5 wins in the rest of the group stages

randomfella

Disappointed with the result. We were going through the motions and not digging in to fight for it. We didn't play much attacking football. Putting 10 men behind the ball after Rooney got sent off was justifiable because we were never going to score anyway. But before hand it was hard to watch. Villareal had all the ball. We missed Keane but even at that, probraly wouldn't have dominated them like we should.

What does everyone make of Richardson?

Also what showed tonight was Smith and Fletcher are too raw. Ferguson is trying to force them to be good, just don't think it'll work.

The Muppet

KdjaC wrote:

i thought O Shea had a great game nothing went past him downj his side but made some sloppy passes.


kdjac

I though his distribution was exceptionally poor particularly in the first half which surprised me as he has played well in recent matches .

LegacyUser

I don't understand. i was fairly confident until RTE started commentating then i lost all confidence basically. Dunphy basically told me how Fletcher is a rubbish player which i happened to agree with and the fact there was no real leader on the pitch also started to make sense as the game went on. Ronaldo had a terrible game which was understandable...no criticism directly for him. As for Rooney, he is only a 19 year old. Jesus the papers will destroy him...i feel sorry for him. He is a kid basically. Schoolboy football you see far worse and nothing happens...i wish people would give him a break. He will mature in time...leave him be.

Van de Sar was amazing. Forlan is a different player. Actually looks like a threat which is amazingly surprising. But i do not see us winning anything this season except maybe a domestic cup at most. I am being real.

horseflesh

Any news on Heinze's injury?

KdjaCL

Fletcher plays well when theres a winger to his right , gives him options, whats with Utd for years they had wingers both sides were a constant threat, the last 3 times i seen them nothing not a bleedin cross has come from the right hand side.



kdjac

homerjay2005

horseflesh wrote:

Any news on Heinze's injury?

out for a few weeks, hopefully the scan wont reveal any damage

Necronomicon

I was watching on Sky (can't bear Dunphy & Co.) but I heard about some of their comments. It's as if they think United's whole campaign is over, which is ridiculous. A point away from home against a tough side is not a disaster.

horseflesh

homerjay2005 wrote:

out for a few weeks, hopefully the scan wont reveal any damage

Fantasy Football-related damn.......

(and I wish him well too, as a neutral I like him as a player)

homerjay2005

im happy with the result, think benfica beat lille with a late goal 1-0, we should be well capable of getting the 12 points from our last 5 games which should get us top spot in the group. its a point away from home against a team that came third in a league last year behind real and barca, they cant be bad,remmeber, they also finished above valencia and deportivo, if we went there and got a win, they'd all be saying what a good result is was.. rte is rte, bandwagon jumpers if i ever saw them, that giles is the most pesimistic man on tv when it comes to utd, cant stand him

The Insider

I thought that was 2 points dropped by Utd last night. Villarreal were very poor I thought they would be much better, but in fairness there main player was out. However I think 3 points were there for the taking.

Overall I thought it was a very poor game, two sides who were lacking in quality. I thought Dunphy and Co made some very valid points. They questioned Ferguson’s wisdom in abandoning the 4-4-2 system he had so much success with and I have to say I don't understand it either. He seems to be looking at the way Chelsea/Liverpool have been playing and trying to change his formation. I just think Rooney is wasted out on the right where he ends up playing, he is such a talented player surely he should play him through the middle??

I mean you look at Utd last night and they had no shape at all in the middle of the park. The Midfield three of Fletcher, Smith and Scholes were awful. There was a very valid point made last night that Ferguson has tried to accommodate Keane’s lack of legs by changing the system so he has more support in the middle of the park, which I think is crazy. When Utd where on the top they played a simple 4-4-2, giggs on the left and beckham on the right, Keane in the holding role and Scholes in the AM role. This worked for them for a long time, but rather then replace the players in the system as he had done before (Ince replaced by Keane etc) he has tried to change the system to suit the players. I think Utd are in trouble and agree with most of what was said by Dunphy and Giles said last night.

Thanx 4 The Fish

homerjay2005 wrote:

im happy with the result, think benfica beat lille with a late goal 1-0, we should be well capable of getting the 12 points from our last 5 games which should get us top spot in the group. its a point away from home against a team that came third in a league last year behind real and barca, they cant be bad,remmeber, they also finished above valencia and deportivo, if we went there and got a win, they'd all be saying what a good result is was.. rte is rte, bandwagon jumpers if i ever saw them, that giles is the most pesimistic man on tv when it comes to utd, cant stand him

Interestingly that is not what most of the Man united fans were saying both here and in the Real World (TM) before the game. Poor performance bu United, Rooney deserved his sending off, and United looked toothless without Keane playing hard man in the middle of the park. No balls going into the box and not too many shots coming from outside it.

yop

im happy with the result, think benfica beat lille with a late goal 1-0, we should be well capable of getting the 12 points from our last 5 games which should get us top spot in the group.

Spot on, we should have won it but for Rooney childishness, still a point is better than nothing and we are well capable of beating the other teams in the group, a bit of poxy luck and we would have been one nil up, but we cannot all win our games through poxyness alone.

Onwards and upwards