Pulled over for cycling on the path?!

DublinWriter

Finner wrote:

I didn't realise it was such a hang up for people - cyclists on paths I mean

There was a recent post in here from a guy who was with his 4 year old nephew on a path. A cyclist hit the kid and broke the kid's arm.

Cycling on a pedestrian path is illegal for good reason.

Victor

luckat wrote:

Back in the 1950s road tax was taken from motorists to pay for the roads. It was abolished briefly and the general taxes diverted to pay for the roads. Motor tax was reintroduced, but just goes into the general pool.

Motor Tax goes to the local government fund.

eth0_

Cyclists wreck my head whether i'm driving or walking.
I walk down camden/wexford/georges st to work every day and there's a cycle lane down most of the way, yet you still get sh*t heads cycling on the footpath showing complete disregard to people walking.

And it's very very rarely that you see a cyclist obeying traffic rules, most of them completely ignore traffic lights. Why don't they realise they *are* a piece of traffic and are subject to the same rules of the road as vehicles?

Morgan

stag39 wrote:

this to morgan
oh mogan ur a bit of a muppet...who do you think pays for the upkeep of the roads to keep you from falling flat on you face after going throiugh a nonmaintained pothole

Since you asked so nicely the answer is: every taxpayer.

Motor tax, VRT etc. don't come anywhere near covering the costs of road construction and maintenance.

Victor

eth0_ wrote:

Cyclists wreck my head whether i'm driving or walking.
I walk down camden/wexford/georges st to work every day and there's a cycle lane down most of the way, yet you still get sh*t heads cycling on the footpath showing complete disregard to people walking.

http://273k.net/carfreeday/2004-07-09_090220_7348.small.jpg

jman0

DublinWriter wrote:

There was a recent post in here from a guy who was with his 4 year old nephew on a path. A cyclist hit the kid and broke the kid's arm.

Cycling on a pedestrian path is illegal for good reason.

A little disingenious there DublinWriter because a crucial matter you are omitting in this instance, is that the pedestrian child was in the cycle path.

Gegerty

Sometimes I cycle on the path, sometimes I use the cycle lane, sometimes I use the middle of the road, sometimes a use the kerbside of the road. It's all a matter of personal safety. It's illegal to cycle on the footpath if a cycle path is provided but I'll take my chances with a summons, some of the cycle paths are a death trap.

btw, I'm also a driver and I'm also a pedestrian. Irish drivers are lethal, I don't think anyone can blame a cyclist for using the path when he knows he's coming to a dangerous junction. I can remember at least 2 deaths in my secondary school, I can't recall any incidents of pedestrians being injured by cyclists. As for pedestrians in fear of their safety because a cyclist might use the footpath, that's just complete and utter twaddle.

Also that thread about the kid getting hurt, the kid was on the cycle path. The cyclist cycled off in a huff which was bang out of order, but of course that makes every single cyclist out there a danger to pedestrians doesn't it :rolleyes:

Ghost Rider

This is a complex situation i.e. a lot of different factors come into play. Dealing with it in broad strokes (e.g. by making statements like "most [cyclists] completely ignore traffic lights") only rubs people up the wrong way. It doesn't help us to sort out the issues and fix the problem.

Not every cyclist who goes onto the footpath is disregarding pedestrians, even though some clearly are. The fact is that cyclists are sometimes forced to go onto footpaths. I cycle to and from work every single day, trying to remain in the cycle lanes, yet every single day I run into instances where I am forced to move out of the lane. Sometimes I choose to go in the car lanes but sometimes that's too dangerous - especially when motorists are behaving as if the cycle lane inures them from having to pay any attention whatsoever to bikes. In those cases, the footpath is the only safe option.

It is possible for cyclists to use the footpath on occasion without endangering anyone. It would be nice if this didn't have to happen. But in so far as the Gardai/legislators refuse to get tough with motorists driving in, or parking in, cycle lanes (or paths or tracks or whatever the hell they're called), this will continue to be justifiable, notwithstanding the rule of law.

As in all things, judgement is called for. I like to think the Gardai usually exercise judgement too and don't often go after cyclists for using footpaths when there are no other reasonable options. That said, I've met some very shirty motorcycle cops in my time so I wouldn't rely on their tolerance.

To my mind, there are two ways out of this situation: either (a) legislators and law enforcement agencies start to come down heavily on motorists regarding their infringement on cycle lanes and on cyclists regarding their infringement on footpaths, or (b) people exercise tolerance about the need for cyclists to sometimes go on the pavement, at the same time as the careless cyclists start to treat pedestrians with respect.

There's no question that in the absence of (a), we'll have to settle for (b). In any case, it's arguable that (b) is the preferable situation anyway. Who wants to live in a society where every eventuality has to be covered by legislation? I know I don't. I'd rather we were able to tolerate each other rather than needing a police force to keep us apart. Call me a hippy...

eth0_ wrote:

Cyclists wreck my head whether i'm driving or walking.
I walk down camden/wexford/georges st to work every day and there's a cycle lane down most of the way, yet you still get sh*t heads cycling on the footpath showing complete disregard to people walking.

And it's very very rarely that you see a cyclist obeying traffic rules, most of them completely ignore traffic lights. Why don't they realise they *are* a piece of traffic and are subject to the same rules of the road as vehicles?

ambro25

Can I ask a stupid question (and expect stupid answers, so )?

If -as a cyclist- circumstances leave you no choice but to use the footpath (as alleged numerous times in this thread)...

... then why do you cycle on the footpath? Why can't you dismount and walk with your bike on the footpath?


ambro25
[moped commuter, car driver, road tax payer (multiple times), occasional cycling/bus lane user (moped, not car of course!)]

Ghost Rider

I don't think anybody is maintaining that cycling on the path should always be permitted as long as the cycle lane is blocked; obviously there are circumstances in which walking on the footpath with the bike is the only safe option.

The point is simply that there are circumstances in which the general rule "No cycling on the footpath" is senseless.

ambro25 wrote:

Can I ask a stupid question (and expect stupid answers, so )?

If -as a cyclist- circumstances leave you no choice but to use the footpath (as alleged numerous times in this thread)...

... then why do you cycle on the footpath? Why can't you dismount and walk with your bike on the footpath?


ambro25
[moped commuter, car driver, road tax payer (multiple times), occasional cycling/bus lane user (moped, not car of course!)]

themole

ambro25 wrote:

Can I ask a stupid question (and expect stupid answers, so )?

If -as a cyclist- circumstances leave you no choice but to use the footpath (as alleged numerous times in this thread)...

... then why do you cycle on the footpath? Why can't you dismount and walk with your bike on the footpath?

because its quicker.

you can stop more quickly on a bike for the equivalent speed running/walking.

so, even cycling slightly quicker than walking, or just rolling along is no less safe than walking with the bike but does save a lot of time.

i didn't cycle that much recently because my bike was stolen last year, only got a new one this week.

but even over the last two days i have encountered several cars parked in cycle lanes, which is much worse than cycling on a footpath.

i would occasionally cycle on a path, but slowly, not much faster than walking.

but when you are doing 15-25 mph on the road and have to swerve into the car traffic because someone has parked in a cycle lane thats much worse.

most of the cycle lanes in town are useless beacuse of this, it ends up being safer to cycle in the car lane then having to swerve in and out of the cycle lane.

i would like to see the situation here that there is in holland where the cycle lanes are truly dedicated, ie you can't park/drive/walk in them

Gavin

Occasionally I cycle on the path. Very rarely though. e.g I come out of my house in the morning and take a turn to the right after 100 metres. I just go down the path for that 100 metres instead of going onto the road, because the dundrum road is too small and it's bloody awkward turning right off it. If I do cycle on the path, I cycle as slow as possible. I should get off the bicycle really.

On the more general topic of cycling v motorists etc, I rarely have any trouble with motorists. I find most are in fact fine and give me the space I need. Of course it helps when you indicate clearly when pulling out to avoid cars in the cycle lane, or take the center of the road when there isn't enough room for a car to pass.

Slightly more aggressive cycling is safer than cowering in the gutter. By that I simply mean treating yourself as if you are a motorcyclist and using the road as you are allowed to.

Interestingly about the Bird avenue post though, I cycle through clonskeagh each morning and twice now, just after the UCD entrance, going towards town I've seen a cycle cop stopped with a cyclist. Don't know what the cyclist did to get stopped, but there must be a Garda doing the rounds around there fairly regularly. I'm fairly stringent about obeying the traffic lights now !

Gav

Trojan

eth0_ wrote:

And it's very very rarely that you see a cyclist obeying traffic rules, most of them completely ignore traffic lights.

Argument lost due to generalisation.

eth0_ wrote:

Why don't they realise they *are* a piece of traffic and are subject to the same rules of the road as vehicles?

When other vehicles such as trucks and cars realise that cyclists are part of the traffic and due at least the same respect as they give other motorists.

Gegerty

ambro25 wrote:

Can I ask a stupid question (and expect stupid answers, so )?

If -as a cyclist- circumstances leave you no choice but to use the footpath (as alleged numerous times in this thread)...

... then why do you cycle on the footpath? Why can't you dismount and walk with your bike on the footpath?


ambro25
[moped commuter, car driver, road tax payer (multiple times), occasional cycling/bus lane user (moped, not car of course!)]

Whats wrong with freewheeling on the footpath? For example, there's a stretch of road on my journey in the morning where sometimes it's necessary to cycle on the path for up to 1 mile, I just can't get across the road. I'm not going to dismount and walk to the next junction. I could cycle down the wrong side of the road but I'm sure I'm not the only cyclist here who has had road rage incidents where cars purposely drive over against the kerb just to make a point and force you back onto the footpath.

People who don't cycle should go and try it out, I guarantee you'll be back on here sympathising with cyclists. The "cycle lanes" are unsafe and have not been thought out. How many times have you stepped off a bus only to find yourself on a cycle path? We could run you over cause by law you shouldn't be on the cycle path, but no we stop for you cause we understand its the system that's messed up and it isn't your fault.

zeusnero

i'm a cyclist in galway & i can't believe the numbers of cyclists who cycle on the path. Granted I've only seen 1 cycle lane in Galway and that was over 2 km outside the town but I've been really shocked. Its as if cyclists in Galway think that they're not allowed on the roads... Have any other Galway based forum users noticed this??

Ghost Rider

I don't know much about Galway city itself but during the Summer (anyone remember that?) a small group of us were cycling from Connemara to Galway and I have to say I was shocked by how bad cycling conditions were on the road from Spiddal to Galway.

We were forced against the curb repeatedly by drivers doing 60MPH or more and giving not one flying **** for cyclists. Also, the potholes were enough to knock your eyeballs out, never mind your fillings.

And by the way, we stayed on the road. It was a Sunday afternoon and there were too many people out walking for us to mount the footpaths.

zeusnero wrote:

i'm a cyclist in galway & i can't believe the numbers of cyclists who cycle on the path. Granted I've only seen 1 cycle lane in Galway and that was over 2 km outside the town but I've been really shocked. Its as if cyclists in Galway think that they're not allowed on the roads... Have any other Galway based forum users noticed this??

themole

zeusnero wrote:

i'm a cyclist in galway & i can't believe the numbers of cyclists who cycle on the path. Granted I've only seen 1 cycle lane in Galway and that was over 2 km outside the town but I've been really shocked. Its as if cyclists in Galway think that they're not allowed on the roads... Have any other Galway based forum users noticed this??

galway is a cyclist/pedestrian town.

loads of students who don't own cars etc, narrow roads where cars and bikes don't coexist well.

pedestrians practically have right of way in the city center.

ambro25

Gegerty wrote:

Whats wrong with freewheeling on the footpath?

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with cyclists using a footpath when
(i) circumstances demand it (your personal safety vs road/traffic conditions) and
(ii) there are no pedestrians about.

I'm intimating that when there are pedestrians about, you should have the courtesy of dismounting, to present a lesser threat/danger to them.

Not to mention the fact that a Gardai could not 'do' you for cycling on the footpath, of course...

Gegerty wrote:

People who don't cycle should go and try it out, I guarantee you'll be back on here sympathising with cyclists. (etc.)

I don't cycle, but I am a 30-40mph-capable 2-wheel commuter in central Dublin. I tend to use cycle paths when there's no cycles or pedestrians about (I'm all electric - they can't hear me coming, is the problem ) and am already all too familiar with the 4-wheels vs 2-wheels debate, after only 2 weeks of 'faith conversion' (was commuting 4 wheels before that).

What I have however noticed in this fairly short time interval, is the amount of cyclists merrily sneaking here/there/everywhere, past reds/onto paths/generally trying their darnedest to not let such a pesky thing as a red light, T-junction or Give Way sign ruin their momentum.

Funny how I never noticed the extent of it (for it is an extensive practice) before I went 2-wheels. Just an observational remark, and not intending to generalise, btw.

In the end, on 2 wheels as on 4, I find it all quite comparable: drive defensively (anticipate), indicate your intentions early, treat any other road user with a modicum of respect and all will be reasonably well.

But in my analogy, this extends to path users, and respect to them IMO comes in the form of dismounting your ride - is all.

DamoKen

Trojan wrote:

Argument lost due to generalisation.



When other vehicles such as trucks and cars realise that cyclists are part of the traffic and due at least the same respect as they give other motorists.

ditto

Gegerty

ambro25 wrote:

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with cyclists using a footpath when
(i) circumstances demand it (your personal safety vs road/traffic conditions) and
(ii) there are no pedestrians about.

I'm intimating that when there are pedestrians about, you should have the courtesy of dismounting, to present a lesser threat/danger to them.

Not to mention the fact that a Gardai could not 'do' you for cycling on the footpath, of course...



I don't cycle, but I am a 30-40mph-capable 2-wheel commuter in central Dublin. I tend to use cycle paths when there's no cycles or pedestrians about (I'm all electric - they can't hear me coming, is the problem ) and am already all too familiar with the 4-wheels vs 2-wheels debate, after only 2 weeks of 'faith conversion' (was commuting 4 wheels before that).

What I have however noticed in this fairly short time interval, is the amount of cyclists merrily sneaking here/there/everywhere, past reds/onto paths/generally trying their darnedest to not let such a pesky thing as a red light, T-junction or Give Way sign ruin their momentum.

Funny how I never noticed the extent of it (for it is an extensive practice) before I went 2-wheels. Just an observational remark, and not intending to generalise, btw.

In the end, on 2 wheels as on 4, I find it all quite comparable: drive defensively (anticipate), indicate your intentions early, treat any other road user with a modicum of respect and all will be reasonably well.

But in my analogy, this extends to path users, and respect to them IMO comes in the form of dismounting your ride - is all.

Damned if we do and damned if we don't. Cop on people. We're not allowed on the footpath and we're not allowed on the road. The cycle path system is a joke, until that is sorted and we have a working system then cyclists are going to continue doing whatever is neccessary to stay alive on the roads. I can think of much better ways of dying and I'm not going to risk being mashed under a wheel just because its against the law to go on the path or because its disrespectful to pedestrians.

Having said that, if a cyclist does hit a pedestrian he should face the consequences. What I'm saying is that it is a risk I'm willing to take and realistically the risk is minimal because the majority of cyclists are careful and alert to pedestrians, reversing cars etc at all times, not just on footpaths.

John_C

If I may make some contributions;

Here is a reply from a motorist to a post of mine in the commuting thread. It indicates to me that it is not unjustified for a cyclist to sometimes mount the footpath.

If you are sharing space with pedestrians you don't need to dismount from your bike but you shouldn't travel above seven or eight miles per hour and you shouldn't harass pedestrians when overtaking. Slow down and wait for an oppertunity to pass. Don't try so sneak through a gap. (Imagine how you would ideally like a car to overtake a bicycle and do the same.)

Cabaal

Trojan wrote:

When other vehicles such as trucks and cars realise that cyclists are part of the traffic and due at least the same respect as they give other motorists.

hmm I don't know about that, some motorists are pretty agressive towards other motorists.

I have to say I almost always obey the rules of the road when on my bike, I stop at traffic lights (unlike some motorists/cyclists), but from time to time I have cycled on the footpath but I don;t like doing it.

I only do it when motoists are pulled right against the kerb and I can't pass, now generally speaking most motorists are decent enough to leave space and some truck drivers will even start pulling away from the kerb if they see a cyclist coming but I have seen cars intentionally pull in when they see cyclists just to try and stop them passing them :mad:

HJ Simpson

I don't cycle, but I am a 30-40mph-capable 2-wheel commuter in central Dublin. I tend to use cycle paths when there's no cycles or pedestrians about (I'm all electric - they can't hear me coming, is the problem ) and am already all too familiar with the 4-wheels vs 2-wheels debate, after only 2 weeks of 'faith conversion' (was commuting 4 wheels before that).

What I have however noticed in this fairly short time interval, is the amount of cyclists merrily sneaking here/there/everywhere, past reds/onto paths/generally trying their darnedest to not let such a pesky thing as a red light, T-junction or Give Way sign ruin their momentum.

Funny that you seem to ignore the fact that mopeds/motorbikes are not allowed on cycle paths. Yet you critise the behaviour of cyclist. I for one obey the rules of the road while cycling like many others. However many do break the law.

vasch_ro

Mucco wrote:

Bit of a waste of money summonsing you to court for cycling on the footpath - why not just give you an on-the-spot fine?

This facility is not available to the Gardai when dealing with cyclists.

vasch_ro

Verb wrote:

Interestingly about the Bird avenue post though, I cycle through clonskeagh each morning and twice now, just after the UCD entrance, going towards town I've seen a cycle cop stopped with a cyclist. Don't know what the cyclist did to get stopped, but there must be a Garda doing the rounds around there fairly regularly. I'm fairly stringent about obeying the traffic lights now !

In relation to bird avenue , anyone familiar with the area will realise that there is a lot of people using the roads here and in particular a higher volume of cyclists than is usual due to the proximity of UCD. As you approach clonskeagh Rd from Bird Ave the road separates somewhat and the last stretch just at the junction with clonskeagh Rd is a one way two lane system
the road sweeps sharply to the right and the path runs straight on. There is signage to indicate the road bends to warn road users. Adjacent to this stretch of Road are a number of houses's about 3 or 4 in total. The second last house is a creche with a lot of people with children entering and exiting.
The cyclists on the path do not expect buggys to be exiting the premises
when the mount the path at this section ( primarily to avoid the lights, saving themselves a minute or 2 at most) and I have seen a number of them crash into cars exiting there houses here or indeed in one girls case she nearly took a mother and child carrying buggy out of it and crashed into the wall herself !
If the Gardai can prevent accidents like this, and keep cyclists on the road well then they have my full support.

vasch_ro

Finner wrote:

Oh my G!!! Back in January a cycle cop stopped me on Bird Avenue and took my details because I cycled up onto the path to avoid some traffic lights.

As a matter of interest how many seconds did you save /or save by avoiding the lights ?

ambro25

HJ Simpson wrote:

Funny that you seem to ignore the fact that mopeds/motorbikes are not allowed on cycle paths. Yet you critise the behaviour of cyclist.

When I criticize posters, I have the decency of reading their posts firsts:

ambro25 wrote:

I tend to use cycle paths when there's no cycles or pedestrians about

earlier in this thread:

ambro25 wrote:

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with cyclists using a footpath when -
(i) circumstances demand it (your personal safety vs road/traffic conditions) and
(ii) there are no pedestrians about.

Whenever I use cycle paths, with no cyclists or pedestrians about, it's because on Normal driving mode (there's a Power mode as well), I top out at 30 mph, unlike most petrol-engined mopeds which can keep up with traffic up to 40-or-so mph...

I do not want to present a factor of danger to me and to other motorists/bikers faster than me (with requiring people to overtake me and drive into the oncoming traffic lane), particularly in rush hour traffic, and therefore I adapt my driving accordingly. Much as I would for 2 wheels if I was driving 4 wheels, where circumstances allow.

If there's a push bike in front and a muppet (car) driver doesn't let me out into the main road to overtake, despite indicating for well over 20 secs prior, well then I brake and wait patiently behind the push bike until I can overtake. If traffic is moving below 30 mph I drive on the main road and take a slot in the queue like any other engine-equipped vehicle.

Can't you just get off your high horse about this-lane-being-just-for-those and that-lane-being-just-for-these, this-that-the-other... It's all the same surface, all things on it moving in the same direction, the big difference being that the footpath is not the same surface, and relative velocity between a push bike and a pedestrian can be somewhat more dangerous than between a push bike and a moped or a car, in a built-up area. It's about your respect for other users, not just the respect you're owed from other users, is the point I'm making.

HJ Simpson wrote:

I for one obey the rules of the road while cycling like many others. However many do break the law.

I take it that you therefore only ever use cycles lanes where provided and otherwise the road, and never bus lanes or the pavement. Good for you. Guys, we need more like him.

Hagar

Personally my pet hate is when cyclists cycle across pedestrian crossings as if they were walking :mad:

themole

Hagar wrote:

Personally my pet hate is when cyclists cycle across pedestrian crossings as if they were walking :mad:

why?

because you can't do this in a car?

there are several crossings designed to be used by bikes and pedestriands. ie dundrum

Gavin

Hagar wrote:

Personally my pet hate is when cyclists cycle across pedestrian crossings as if they were walking :mad:

I don't get it, what's wrong with this ? you have seen the pedestrian stops that also have cycle lights as well ?

Gav