Official Uk analogue switch off date announced.

The Westerner

Saw on BBC and ITV teletext news sections today that the British government have officially announced dates for the switch-off of the TV analogue broadcasting network. 2012 is the date for the total shutdown of analogue. The first region to go will be the English/Scottish border region in 2008.

Anybody have an idea when Northern Ireland would go off?

Rick_

2011 is when NI gets the chop!

Although, according to OFCOM's report, NI has the lowest number of homes with digital, so surely switching off this region sooner would be better as less people can get Freeview here. Then again, OFCOM aren't exactly associated with doing anything sensible, are they?

Paddy

mike65

Any plans for analogue switch off here? And if so how will it effect those of us using cable as the means to receive? I'd have thought it would make no odds...

Mike.

Ulsterman 1690

Any plans for analogue switch off here?

By "here" I presume you mean the Republic In which case before you have an analogue switch off it might be a good idea to have a digital switch ON

Ulsterman 1690

Although, according to OFCOM's report, NI has the lowest number of homes with digital, so surely switching off this region sooner would be better as less people can get Freeview here.

I can think of a number of reasons why NI might be first among them are
1) Although we may have the highest percentage of non-digital households in the UK in pure numerical terms compared to other regions of the UK the figure of houses affected by the switchoff would be quite low
2) As soon as analouge transmissions in one region get switched off it frees up spectrum for improved digital coverage in both the region concerned and all neighbouring regions. Therfore it makes sense to make the switchover in less populated regions first

However Im not sure whether proceeding on a regional basis is necessairly the way to go. Surely it would be a better idea to switch off the analouge signals of Channel 5 and the RSL stations first

egal

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

By "here" I presume you mean the Republic In which case before you have an analogue switch off it might be a good idea to have a digital switch ON

Actually, with the state of most television today, do you not think it might be a really, really good idea to have analogue switch off and no digital switch on?

Ulsterman 1690

Good point

Richard

Paddy C wrote:

2011 is when NI gets the chop!

Although, according to OFCOM's report, NI has the lowest number of homes with digital, so surely switching off this region sooner would be better as less people can get Freeview here. Then again, OFCOM aren't exactly associated with doing anything sensible, are they?

Paddy

I think a reason for the late switch off might be to do with the RSLs and the ROI stations. The RSLs aren't on Freeview yet and therefore are a complication. The Border TV region doesn't have any RSLs so this isn't an issue for them.

Also, the fact that after an analogue switch-off in NI, analogue services from ROI would still be available in many areas (in fact they may be more available) causing another problem - one which UTV would be concerned about. So they're leaving us till later, and doing less complicated regions first.

Ulsterman 1690

Its even possible that after the official analouge switchoff that UTV would still be available on analouge in parts of NI via overspill from one or two deflectors in Donegal

Richard

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Its even possible that after the official analouge switchoff that UTV would still be available on analouge in parts of NI via overspill from one or two deflectors in Donegal

That's a point! There'll be a lot of water under a bridge between now and then though!

lawhec

The simple reason that the UTV region is being left until last is that it is the only part of the UK where a significant number of viewers watch terrestial TV from another county (RoI) which hasn't sorted out its own DTT delivery yet - imagine if the Ulster region was switched off in 2008 and DTT hadn't even commenced in the Republic? Chaos and confusion would ensure! :eek:

The one major thing I was disappointed in Tessa Jowells plans was that there was no mention of any plans to reduce the protection levels of analogue transmissions to allow for higher DTT transmitting powers in some locations where this could be done. Also there are no plans set to see exactly how the switch-off region by region would happen, will it be staged in each region or will all four or five channels go pop and go straight to digital. My proposal would be...

12 months before switch off:
* Caption on BBC 2 to say that this channel will be switched off in three months; in areas where there is a Five transmitter (except in Wales), the same caption appears indicating that BBC 2 Analogue will take over the slot in three months time.

9 months before switch off:
* BBC 2 main Analogue channel switched off. In areas with a Five Transmitter (except in Wales) BBC 2 will take it over for nine months. The old BBC 2 frequency then broadcasts Multiplex 1 at 1/10th the old analogue ERP.

* Caption on Channel 4 & S4C to indicate that their analogue channel will be turned off in three months

6 months before switch off
* Channel 4 & S4C switch off their analogue transmitters. Outside of Wales, Multiplex 2 replaces the old Channel 4 analogue transmitter. In Wales, transmitter areas which are identified as having a significant Welsh-Speaking population will see Multiplex A in place of the old S4C analogue frequency with a proviso of a temp. carrying arrangement of Channel 4 being available. In these areas which used to have a Five transmitter, it will carry Mux.2 for a short time. In Welsh Anglofone areas the reverse will apply i.e. the old S4C channel will carry Mux.2, the old Five channel will carry Mux A.

* Captions on BBC1, ITV1 (and BBC2 on old Five analogue transmitters where they are at the same powers as the other two remaining analogue channels) to say that transmitter powers will be reduced in due course, with Muxs A-D increased in power.

4 months before switch off

*Remaining analogue transmitters reduced in power & switched off between 00.00 and 06.00. High powered DTT tests to be tested during these times, with Mux A on ITV1 frequency and Mux B on BBC1 frequency except in Welsh-speaking areas where Mux 2 is carried.

2 months before switch off

* Analogue transmissions of BBC1 & ITV1 (and the few BBC2 transmitters) reduced further in power and only now on between 12.00 to 00.00

1 month before switch off

* Last reduction of power (-10db?) of analogue transmitters reduced to broadcasting between 17.30 to 00.00, with DTT tests on these frequencies outside of these times.

D-Day

*BBC1, ITV1 and BBC2 where remaining are switched off for good - Mux B takes over BBC 1 frequency & Mux A takes over ITV 1 frequency. In Welsh speaking areas the old S4C frequency refers to Mux 2, ending temp. arrangements for Channel 4 there on Mux A and Mux 2 on old Five frequencies. Welsh Anglophone areas see Mux A on old Five frequencies end.

* Multiplexs C & D where practical have powers increased to match those of the other four.

Well something like that... :cool:

Antenna

Northern Correspondent wrote:

The simple reason that the UTV region is being left until last is that it is the only part of the UK where a significant number of viewers watch terrestial TV from another county (RoI) which hasn't sorted out its own DTT delivery yet - imagine if the Ulster region was switched off in 2008 and DTT hadn't even commenced in the Republic? Chaos and confusion would ensure! :eek:

On the other side of the border the strong demand for access to UK TV and (for the next few years) continuing availability of analogue signals from there creates its own difficulties for DTT switch on here.
If DTT was rolled out nationwide tomorrow morning in the republic it would have major implications for those currently receiving UK TV with an aerial - many would lose reception altogether from DTT interference - and for others it would be seriously impaired.
The Kippure transmitter for example is allocated 4 channels for DTT which are co-channel with ones from Northern Ireland that many people South of the border are receiving.

As of now you would have a situation where more people would be unhappy than happy about a switch on of DTT here and the above issues could cause serious difficulties for politicians.

No doubt the DOC are aware of this and are concerned at a backlash and no surprise that the Kippure transmitter and certain other transmitters aren't included in the proposed trial run of DTT.

The relatively small population of the republic (compared to UK and other countries with DTT) creates other difficulties. To entice people to go the DTT route - digital only channels will have to be established - i.e. RTE setting up equivalents of BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News 24 - but this will likely result in a significant increase of the TV licence fee - and such an increase could lead to backlash also, especially from those on cable/MMDS/Sky more than content with their viewing choice at the moment.

Richard

Antenna wrote:

The relatively small population of the republic (compared to UK and other countries with DTT) creates other difficulties. To entice people to go the DTT route - digital only channels will have to be established - i.e. RTE setting up equivalents of BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News 24 - but this will likely result in a significant increase of the TV licence fee - and such an increase could lead to backlash also, especially from those on cable/MMDS/Sky more than content with their viewing choice at the moment.

When DTT does arrive in ROI, I imagine that many of the channels which will broadcast will be UK channels. Even if RTE does nothing more than broadcast its existing channels in widescreen and provides extra streaming content (a la BBCi) then this, along with any available UK channels, will attract viewers to DTT. Boxes are relatively cheap these days so that isn't a problem. The only real hurdle is establishing a transmitter network.

It would be great if national goverments could insist that all new TVs had an integrate DTT tuner. Unfortunately EU rules prohibit this.

Ulsterman 1690

It would be great if national goverments could insist that all new TVs had an integrate DTT tuner. Unfortunately EU rules prohibit this.

Dont EU rules require TV's to have SCART sockets and comply with (fairly lax :rolleyes: ) minimum standards for electrial safety and EMC. At one time the EU were even considering all TV sets to have MAC capability. Why then do they not allow for compulsary DTT capability

Mossy Monk

because they are idiots

but maybe it might have something to do with some countries not even knowing what standard they will be using. how many countries in Europe still have to change to DTT

Frisian

because they are idiots

Not nice ... and not true, at least not in this case.
Maybe it's got more to do with countries like this one (RoI), whose politicians first needed a kick up the ar** before they came as far as to make the announcement about "tests" (wow), while others are well beyond that and are about to start a trial on DVB-H.
The EU simply has to wait for counties like this one to get their act together. (DTT, broadband rollout).
In the end it's all down to politicians, and history showed us what to expect of them.
Here is an informative site about the progress of DTT.

Macy

I think the DTT boat has been missed here, unless the channel lineup includes a mix similar to the UK.

If Channel 4 (and E4, More4) follow the BBC and ITV going clear then what are the benefits of them being on a DTT platform, in terms of getting numbers signing up? 12 channels ain't even going to provide all the ones that are available clear on satellite already.

Telefís

I think there's still a lot of potential in a decent 12 channel package - at the end of the day only a third of households in Ireland have satellite as it stands, and even then that probably only represents about a quarter of the population given the tendency for young single-occupier households in particular to have satellite.

But yes, without the British on board certainly it'll be a hard package to sell.
By the way, does the BBC's availability on Freeview satellite in Ireland today essentially gaurantee that all rights and legalities are now covered for a BBC move to Irish DTT too? What of the British complaints of the UK licence fee paying for another country's service?

I'm one of the households that currently recives the UK channels from over the border (though have Freesat(?) too for the BBC. Suffice to say there will be uproar if an Ulster DTT service interferes with analogue, especially given former Comm Min Dermot Ahern lives in one of the very border consituencies affected (only lives 5 mins walk from me )