Value of an NCT Cert when buying/selling

cormie

Hi,
My NCT is due on the 22nd. I'm thinking instead of having to bother with going through all the hassle on a car that I want to get rid of soon enough anyway, would it be worth my while just to sell it and buy a cheaper car with an NCT cert. I'm guessing it's worth about 2K (I bought it for 3K from a garage about 18 months/25K miles ago). It's a 96 Nissan Micra. Although on carzone.ie, most of the 96 Micras are going for over 3K still

I have my eye on a 1l car with an NCT till 2007 that's going for about €700. I wont be doing anywhere near the mileage this year as I did last year and the extra €1300 or so could really help me out at the moment.

I'm just wondering, do you think I'd get a better price off a garage/private buyer if it had the NCT Cert and if so, how much of a better price. The NCT will cost €50 and I really have no idea what kind of money needs to go into it if it fails. It may not even fail but who knows.

Do you suggest I approach a garage over a private seller? Do you reckon it would be better to find a garage selling a cheap 1l car for €700 or so and approach them for a trade in? Would I be more likely to get a better over all deal?

Also, just say I went to buy the car and it wasn't taxed/insured, how would I go about getting it to my house?

Any feedback appreciated:)

bazz26

IMO I would forget about trying to sell your car to a garage. They will not give it's true value even against a €700 car.

The best thing to do is sell the Micra privately. They are a very popular car with first time drivers or people looking for a city run around.

Selling it without an NCT is not impossible but this will probably influence the price you will get for it. Also it might put a potential buyer off as they see the risk of buying it but it then fails the NCT for something serious which costs more than the car is worth to fix and they are caught. Imo having it NCT'd will only make it easier for you to sell and you will get closer to it's market value.

Buying cars for around €700 is a lotter imo even if it has a 2 year NCT which is very unlikely I think, there are alot of other problems it could have that an NCT would not pick up. You could get two weeks out of a €700 car or two years depending how lucky you are in what you bought.

My understanding of the NCT is that it is a certificate of road worthiness, it doesn't however guarantee the car is mechanically sound, so be very carefull when buying cars in this price bracket. That €1500 you think you just saved by selling the Micra could easily end up been spend on trying to keep the €700 car on the road.

cormie

I know what your saying about the gamble alright, the particular car I was looking at had a service about 100 miles ago and got allot of new replacements/fixes. Also, what I hope to do with my €1300 I get in the difference is invest it so I can make money while I'm in college. Otherwise I'll be strapped for cash and never get around to getting that Focus I so desire :rolleyes:

I wont let the Micra go for less than 2K to a garage. Is this too low do you think? 2.5 maybe? If the Garage has a mechanic, which it probably will, it will cost them allot less to make it pass the NCT then it would cost me/a private buyer and I don't want a private buyer coming back to me moaning. I also don't really have the money to put into it if it doesn't pass the NCT.

If a garage offered me 1.6K plus a 1l car valued at say €700 with a 2yr NCT and recent service, do you think it would be worth the risk? I'd make them give me a 6 month warranty too:D

I can afford the €50 for the NCT, but can't really afford any repairs it may need so giving the responsibility to a garage would set me at ease.

slade_x

I bought my car without an nct and it flew through when i put it through myself

Although most people dont know that the NCT isnt a legal requirment, it never passed on current legislation.

All the NCT is, is a Safe Motoring Initiative, its not a legal requirement, no matter what your local tax office says - some dont even ask, however a crw is (certificate of roadworthiness) and that only applies to goods vehicles

seamus

slade_x wrote:

All the NCT is, is a Safe Motoring Initiative, its not a legal requirement, no matter what your local tax office says - some dont even ask, however a crw is (certificate of roadworthiness) and that only applies to goods vehicles

It's weird though. That's what I thought. I downloaded the renewal form from the Dublin City Council website, and it only said you needed to send in the VLC with the tax form. So I was about to send them off, but I doublechecked. Had a look at Oasis.gov.ie which said you needed to include the NCT cert, insurance cert and VLC.
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/motor_tax_rates.html

It links to another Motor Tax renewal form that says that too, contrary to the one I'd downloaded:
http://www.countycarlow.ie/services/motorvehicles/forms/Motor_tax_Renewal.pdf
Perhaps it was updated between the first and second downloads (about a month).

It's all great saying that it's not a legal requirement, but that doesn't mean the county council can't refuse your application for being incomplete.

cormie

slade_x wrote:

I bought my car without an nct and it flew through when i put it through myself

Although most people dont know that the NCT isnt a legal requirment, it never passed on current legislation.

All the NCT is, is a Safe Motoring Initiative, its not a legal requirement, no matter what your local tax office says - some dont even ask, however a crw is (certificate of roadworthiness) and that only applies to goods vehicles

???

This is what is written on my NCT booking letter:

For your information, all previosly names "Fail Adcisory" defect items have become "Fail Refusal" items since September 2003. As a result an NCT Certificate will not be issued in the event of a fail result for any test item.

Please be aware that if your vehicle is due and has not yet passed the NCT:
1. You could attract a penalty of up to €1,500. Enforcement is the responsibility of the Garda Siochana, whyo have access to our records.
2. In the event of an accident, under your motor insurance policy, your failure to hold a NCT Certificate could well be a factor in dealing with the claim

Does #1 not state that it is a legal requirement if the Garda can penalise me for not having a valid cert?

is #2 basically saying that if my insurer (Tesco) request a valid NCT in the policy requirements, that if I am in an accident they wont cover me? I'm not sure if Tesco require an NCT cert. I was never asked for proof when applying anyway?!?

cormie

seamus wrote:

It's weird though. That's what I thought. I downloaded the renewal form from the Dublin City Council website, and it only said you needed to send in the VLC with the tax form. So I was about to send them off, but I doublechecked. Had a look at Oasis.gov.ie which said you needed to include the NCT cert, insurance cert and VLC.

Is it a bad sign that I don't even know what a VLC is, where mine is, or how I go about getting one or even the crw All I know of is Tax, Insurance and NCT..

seamus

cormie wrote:

Is #2 basically saying that if my insurer (Tesco) request a valid NCT in the policy requirements, that if I am in an accident they wont cover me?

Yep. But it shouldn't do. The only thing that the insurance policy should say is that you are obliged to keep the vehicle in a roadworthy condition, and that the insurer may inspect the vehicle if they request. I've a policy with Tesco/Hibernian and they don't want an NCT cert. That said, if a vehicle continually fails the NCT and you don't get it sorted, it could be argued that you're not doing as required and keeping the vehicle in a roadworthy condition, and your insurance could be invalidated. That is, ignoring the fact that many NCT fails have little to do with roadworthiness.

Is it a bad sign that I don't even know what a VLC is, where mine is, or how I go about getting one or even the crw All I know of is Tax, Insurance and NCT..

They're just silly acronyms
VLC - Vehicle Licensing Cert. What replaced the log book.
CRW - Certificate of roadworthiness, required for Goods vehicles, PSVs, ambulances, etc.

BrianD3

slade_x wrote:

Although most people dont know that the NCT isnt a legal requirment, it never passed on current legislation.

All the NCT is, is a Safe Motoring Initiative, its not a legal requirement,

Rubbish.

ROAD TRAFFIC (NATIONAL CAR TEST) REGULATIONS, 1999.
S.I. No. 395 of 1999.
http://193.178.1.79/ZZSI395Y1999.html

cormie

BrianD3 wrote:

Rubbish.

ROAD TRAFFIC (NATIONAL CAR TEST) REGULATIONS, 1999.
S.I. No. 395 of 1999.
http://193.178.1.79/ZZSI395Y1999.html

ah ja hay iz us... that's far too big a read...

Does it say that it is a legal requirement?

seamus

Yep

A person shall not use in a public place a vehicle to which these Regulations apply unless there is displayed on the front windscreen of the said vehicle a valid test disc

cormie

Ok, so now the NCT is a legal requirement, back to my original question... any more thoughts?

Interceptor

Put an ad in the Buy and Sell, clean the Micra and advertise it as not having an NCT. If someone is prepared to pay €2k-€2.5 then take their hand off. You will find out very quickly if its worth doing. I usually expect an NCT to add 10-25% to a cars value depending on condition. I recommend seeing what the Micra will make (don't waste time going to a dealer) and then take your cash and have a look around. Once you have found something you like, ring your insurance company and they will transfer your cover there and then and you can drive your newly acquired treasure home. €700 isn't a lot of money - you get what you pay for and if you choose badly you will have to keep spending.

'c

Interceptor

Oh and the NCT is a legal requirement but for the moment you don't need it to tax yor car, the rozzers won't pester you about it unless you don't have tax and I haven't heard of anyones insurance co giving them grief about not having it. Personally I don't bother as I already pay enough tax and the NCT are a private company which collects tax for the govt.

'c

cormie

thanks for that:)

10-25% is about 250 max so, 50 of that will go to having the NCT done so say €200. I wouldnt say it will need near that to pass the NCT but the thing is, I don't have anywhere near that to be spending on it at the moment. The main thing is that the €1,300 I would get from the difference will be going towards investment.

I'd be happy to sell my Micra privately but it has one minor problem, the padding on the front window that attaches the bottom of the window to the mechanism that lowers and raises the window has come off on one side. This means that when the window is lowered if I slam the door closed I can hear a rattle. It also means if I roll the window down too much, when I roll it back up, allot of the time it will get caught and wont go fully up so I have to roll it back down and stick my fingers in between the window and it's proper path to get it up properly. That's about it though. I think I'll stick it in the buyandsell/boards fs forum for 2.5K, see what happens. Yep, €700 isn't allot but then again, I could be lucky enough to get a perfect car that is simply "dated".

Guy:Incognito

seamus wrote:

Yep. But it shouldn't do. The only thing that the insurance policy should say is that you are obliged to keep the vehicle in a roadworthy condition, and that the insurer may inspect the vehicle if they request. I've a policy with Tesco/Hibernian and they don't want an NCT cert. That said, if a vehicle continually fails the NCT and you don't get it sorted, it could be argued that you're not doing as required and keeping the vehicle in a roadworthy condition, and your insurance could be invalidated. That is, ignoring the fact that many NCT fails have little to do with roadworthiness.
.

Both myself and my dad have taken out policies with hibernian in the last 6 months and when they send out the forms to be signed, they ask for a list of docements to be returned with it (photocopy of front and back of licence, ncb proofs and nct cert)

cormie

Stekelly wrote:

Both myself and my dad have taken out policies with hibernian in the last 6 months and when they send out the forms to be signed, they ask for a list of docements to be returned with it (photocopy of front and back of licence, ncb proofs and nct cert)

Well Tesco are part of Hibernian, not actually Hibernian, I'm with Tesco and wasn't asked for the NCT either

Our man in Havana

Interceptor wrote:

Oh and the NCT is a legal requirement but for the moment you don't need it to tax yor car, the rozzers won't pester you about it unless you don't have tax and I haven't heard of anyones insurance co giving them grief about not having it. Personally I don't bother as I already pay enough tax and the NCT are a private company which collects tax for the govt.

'c

I am with 'c here on this one.

I have had absolutly no probs taxing my car which has had no nct for 9 months now. I have her taxed till 02/06 and no problems. I can see nothing on my insurance about it.

I have passed thru about 7 or 8 checkpoints and not a word was said about it.

I'm not worried about and the law are certainly not worried about it either. Until it is a requirement to get tax then I don't see any great rush to do anything about it.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I personally would keep the micra if i were you. You know the micra is running well. I know you will get extra cash to get you through college, but why not get a loan instead and keep a car that you know works?

cormie

BrynW wrote:

I personally would keep the micra if i were you. You know the micra is running well. I know you will get extra cash to get you through college, but why not get a loan instead and keep a car that you know works?

Well the car isn't really of utter importance, college is only a 15 minute walk away, it basically keeps my dry on wet mornings and let's me drive places instead of taking the bus, the €1,300 isn't to get me through college either, it wont be spent on entertainment etc, it's going to go to getting me machinery to enable me to make things for college which I can sell also, I'm doing a furniture design course so I'll be able to make and sell my own lamps, bowls etc etc. So I just need a run around car, it was allot different last year when I travelled about 25/30 miles a day in it to carpentry college for 6 months. The mileage will be a minimum this year in which time I hope to save up enough money from the €1,300 investment to get a 99 Focus if I can:)

seamus

OK, you can look at it this way:

If you sell it privately, and you've no NCT, immediately the buyer thinks "Why not?". It's not a whole lot of money to take the test, and unless it's only recently expired then you should've had time to get it done. Even if it has recently expired, the buyer regards having to get it NCT'd as hassle.
If you have an NCT, particularly a recent one, that gives the buyer almost a guarantee that the car is at least up to minimum road requirements. Great, particularly if the car is old like your micra.

If you sell to a dealer, you're going to lose out anyway. They may also use the "No NCT" line to get it a little cheaper. Generally they don't care, they're going to give it the once over and a 6-month warranty anyway so NCT'd or not makes no difference to them, they're not going to get the test done. But they will tell you that no NCT means the car isn't worth as much...

stevenmu

I'd say go for the NCT, a non-knowledgeable private buyer will most likely just walk away and go for one of the hundreds of other similar cars at similar prices that do have NCTs, they don't want the hassle/cost of buying it, testing it and having it repaired any more than you do. A knowleadeable one will want a couple of hundred off the price just for that alone, that's on top of the other couple of hundred they'll want to bargain you down anyway. The same goes for a dealer. Getting the NCT and paying for any work to be done will save you money in the end.


On the topic of legality, afaik the NCT is a requirement in it's own right, the confusion came about when councils tried to make it a requirement for taxation aswell. A few people took them to court over it and it was found that they couldn't use it as a requirement to tax a car. (some tax renewal forms still show it as being needed but it's not.

Interceptor

stevenmu wrote:

On the topic of legality, afaik the NCT is a requirement in it's own right, the confusion came about when councils tried to make it a requirement for taxation aswell. A few people took them to court over it and it was found that they couldn't use it as a requirement to tax a car. (some tax renewal forms still show it as being needed but it's not.

If thats the case, why are they able to insist on having the insurance docs? Surely the same would apply?

'cptr

stevenmu

Interceptor wrote:

If thats the case, why are they able to insist on having the insurance docs? Surely the same would apply?

'cptr

afaik, they're not. The last time I renewed my tax I didn't have the insurance docs, I'd just renewed my policy and hadn't got the new docs yet, I told the girl at the desk and had my old docs to show her but she said it doesn't matter and never looked. That was at the Kildare co.co office, others may have their own different opinions.