My BT broadband nightmare... turns out it should never have happened

dub45

On Friday 18.August.06 at 10:48 am a BT customer care rep (tel. 01-43288xx) called to appoligize that there was a problem with my on-line order and to confirm my Bank-details, etc.

Have you informed your bank about the cancellation of the direct debit? (Just in case )

Dr. Dec

Dr. Dec wrote:

Not sure this qualifies as juicy, but it is recent.

I made an order for Broadband Option 3, Line Rental and Talk. Have to say that I am less than impressed with the service so far. My order was made on July 25th and while I'd be happy enough to accept a three week wait if I was informed of this from the start, there have been several other issues. I registered my order with BTs website so I could track it's progress. I managed to log into this system perhaps twice before it stopped working. The error message at login claims I've entered an incorrect phone number. Odd considering the login does not ask for a phone number. If this is a billing issue, it has certainly not prevented BT from taking money from us.

Having had no contact with BT for about a week following my order, I rang customer services and was told that my broadband should be online by August 9th. On August 2nd, a garbled email confirmation of my order arrived and told me exactly nothing. I asked them to send this again and received a reply another week later informing me that my broadband should be online by August 17th. In the meantime, the tenant deposit was charged twice. This was spotted and fixed following another call to customer services. A phone call to BT today (the 17th) reveals that my broadband is up and running but that someone forgot to send out the self-install pack. To give customer services fair credit, they were very apologetic and have sent this pack out today. They suggested I track the progress of this online but the website still will not allow me access.

Taken in isolation, one of these issues would not bother me. All together, it's extremely frustrating. It seems that come Monday this will all be fixed, I'll update then.

Well this thread's gotten busy since I last posted! So to update. Our broadband line was activated on the 17th, and we expected our modem to arrive (delayed) on Monday 21st or Tuesday 22nd. By Thursday the 24th, nothing had arrived. Giving BT the benefit of the doubt, we went to the local post depot and asked if they knew if our package was lost. They told us they had no record of such a package for us but advised that we get a tracking number from BT. We rang them and asked for the number. We were put on hold by a rather evasive BT rep for perhaps 4-5 minutes and then got the tracking number. No mention was made of when this package had been dispatched. The tracking number didn't work that day... the next day though, the package arrived. The tracking number now shows that the package had been dispatched the same day (the 24th) as we were given the tracking number. This after we were assured by the apologetic rep from last week that the pack would be dispatched on the 18th. Without knowing the exact time the pack was posted out I hesitate to accuse BT of dispatching the package during the 5 minutes we were on hold.

To finish off the whole affair, BT did not send us a username or password. I again gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that I had chosen it during registration and simply forgot. Having tried every standard password I use, along with all of the likely usernames, we finally rang BT (fifth time now) and they told us that they had no record of a username or password for our account. We were on hold for over 20 minutes before we were informed that we had been assigned a new username and password. An hour later, on Monday the 28th (day 34 of our saga), we accessed the internet for the first time.

Mistakes at practically every point in the setup, and no doubt we shall now be charged for the month of August.

Dr. Dec

Looks as though we have indeed been charged for August, though the bill is pretty hard to decipher. And there's a "self install fee". That's not for the modem, it's an extra charge.

Tomorrow we ring BT for the sixth time. Scratching our heads.

Sapele

Dr. Dec wrote:

Tomorrow we ring BT for the sixth time.

Good luck with it, they will eventually get it right. As far as I can remember a connection fee applies unless you supply your own modem.

Sponge Bob

Their bills (whether correct or not) are the most indecipherable gobble I have ever seen

Now they have kinda cracked the complaints/escalations issue they must surely realise that if their bills were legible and comprehensible that the workload on their CS and on their Complaints would reduce dramatically if they could explain:

1. What they were billing for
2. Why , charges that were incurred and when !
3. The period for which they were billing in full, 4 months sometimes it seems ?
4. Any initial adjustments to get onto one of their billing cycles
5. The billing cycle on which all future bills would be processed
6. Product paid in advance or in arrears (FRIACO and BB are different I think )

They must be generating a scad of work for themselves from their horrendously gobbly bills.

Nevertheless they have fairly cracked the really important thing which was to resource a department that would listen to and could and would do something for their customers . Now BT are not a really scary thought any more . I cannot frighten my babies anymore by simply saying BT is Coming To Get You

Next up, absolute clarity in all things billing to reduce the number of completely unnecessary queries to their CS .

They should start off with clear bills for existing customers ...who would appreciate this I am sure.... and maybe have a small section that writes out a nice word document explaining the points mentioned above to new customers.

Dr. Dec

Turns out we are being billed from the 11th of August. Now for line rental and calls, that's fine by me. But we didn't get our BB password until the 28th. Call number 6 went poorly. The CSR first tried to insist we be charged for BB from the 11th. Then she offered us an 8 euro refund. When asked where that particular number came from, she stated that it was the cost of the fee from the 11th until the 28th. Now by my reckoning, a refund for 15 days of a 40 euro a month service is not 8 euros.

She also stated that the self install fee is standard and is in the contract. Fair enough, but I don't have this contract and I can't find it on the website. Anyone know where that is?

Also, we were viewing the bill online (wanted a few things explained) when we rang the CSR. When she accessed the bill on her system, we lost our BT website access and the bill turned into a mess of computer code. Minor thing, but next time I guess we'll print the bill first.

I'm a pretty calm guy, but I've had enough. Where do I go to make a formal complaint?

Edit: Aha, there's a complaints option on their CS phone menu. Here comes call seven.

GregusManus

I dont think you can ring complaints, put it in writing via email:

complaints@btireland.ie

you should get an acknowledgment with a complaint number within 24 hours (If i recall). And they aim to resolve within 10 days. In that time you get to talk to the same complaints person, instead of repeating your story over and over to different CS reps.

Dr. Dec

We've sent an email. We tried to ring complaints but were on hold for nearly 20 minutes.

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote:

Their bills (whether correct or not) are the most indecipherable gobble I have ever seen

....................................

Next up, absolute clarity in all things billing to reduce the number of completely unnecessary queries to their CS .

They should start off with clear bills for existing customers ...who would appreciate this I am sure.... and maybe have a small section that writes out a nice word document explaining the points mentioned above to new customers.

Isn't it extraordinary that it is not a high priority for all companies to produce clear and comprehensive bills. The ESB also comes to mind..........

Blackace

for anyone having trouble with any BT service and get nowhere with their complaints or just get told rubbish from the Indian call centre or simply get sick of paying 4p/pm whilst being passed from department to department for hours on end. Use the following details to get some action.

the Chairman's office (i.e not the switchboard) can be reached on 0207 3566666 (this for now appears disconnected).

the highest level you can complain to in BT is Phil Rhodes, Assistant to the Chairman and Chief Executive - his e-mail is cceo@bt.com. (that is correct with two c's)

Phone number is 0207 3565000 which is the Chairman's switchboard. If you phone it, a high level employee must phone you back in two hours (although apparently they work to an hour).

This works and I have had my complaint dealt with immediately.

Sponge Bob

Blackace wrote:

for anyone having trouble with any BT service and get nowhere with their complaints or just get told rubbish from the Indian call centre or simply get sick of paying 4p/pm whilst being passed from department to department for hours on end. Use the following details to get some action.

the Chairman's office (i.e not the switchboard) can be reached on 0207 3566666 (this for now appears disconnected).

the highest level you can complain to in BT is Phil Rhodes, Assistant to the Chairman and Chief Executive - his e-mail is cceo@bt.com. (that is correct with two c's)

Phone number is 0207 3565000 which is the Chairman's switchboard. If you phone it, a high level employee must phone you back in two hours (although apparently they work to an hour).

This works and I have had my complaint dealt with immediately.

This is BT UK of course while we are talking about BT Ireland here. Same Chairman obviously :D

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote:

This is BT UK of course while we are talking about BT Ireland here. Same Chairman obviously :D

It would be nice if the crowd in Englad got some idea of what BT here put their customers through although given that Surveys infamous file was mysteriously intercepted on its way to England they will probably have someone intercept the calls as well!:rolleyes:

dak

There certainly seems to be a lot of bad press for BT. I just want to say that I must be very lucky. I ordered BT broadband through switch4 - Bt contacted me a few days later , my router arrived a few days later( Even though I had to dump it and get netgear) got on line -1st bill came and it all works touch wood. PS - I am not a bt employee.

Trumps

Blackace wrote:

for anyone having trouble with any BT service and get nowhere with their complaints or just get told rubbish from the Indian call centre or simply get sick of paying 4p/pm whilst being passed from department to department for hours on end. Use the following details to get some action.

the Chairman's office (i.e not the switchboard) can be reached on 0207 3566666 (this for now appears disconnected).

the highest level you can complain to in BT is Phil Rhodes, Assistant to the Chairman and Chief Executive - his e-mail is cceo@bt.com. (that is correct with two c's)

Phone number is 0207 3565000 which is the Chairman's switchboard. If you phone it, a high level employee must phone you back in two hours (although apparently they work to an hour).

This works and I have had my complaint dealt with immediately.

Just one post Blackace ? did you register today ?
Where did you get all that info from about the UK directors. ?
Im sure those Tele numbers and email addresses are not on public view. ?
Anyway, it would be great if somebody else made calls to that number, although its a UK number. ! How about Sponge Bob calling them. ? He is one of the most vociferous members of Boards and always gets involved with BT complaints on Boards. ? doesnt matter if your not a customer of BT any more, I'm sure you could think up something ?

Sponge Bob

I still advise people to use the complaints@btireland.ie escalations team and unless BT Ireland breaks it :eek: I do not see the need to escalate further .

If BT Ireland under ever resources that particular department you may take it that all the information above is duly noted . It took years and years (and surveys lobbying at length, personally) to get them to listen to their customers .

Blackace

The numbers are genuine and in fact BT WANT YOU TO USE THEM.

You are right that they are not usually given out freely but the Team at the chairman's office know damn well that if you have them your just about at your wits end.

These are all high level employees and they will monitor and push for a resolution, nothing will be put aside. They are really monitoring their own problem handling procedure as well as helping those of us who have just about had enough.

Feel free to call them, it does help once the chairman's office is on the job. I see no reason why Irish customers of BT should be treated any different from English ones.

surveys

Blackace wrote:

The numbers are genuine and in fact BT WANT YOU TO USE THEM.

You are right that they are not usually given out freely but the Team at the chairman's office know damn well that if you have them your just about at your wits end.

These are all high level employees and they will monitor and push for a resolution, nothing will be put aside. They are really monitoring their own problem handling procedure as well as helping those of us who have just about had enough.

Feel free to call them, it does help once the chairman's office is on the job. I see no reason why Irish customers of BT should be treated any different from English ones.

Its 4 months since your original post. ! Why the delay. ? I think 'trumps' was right and you should answer his questions first. ? I have been personally involved with BT as everybody here knows, and if anybody wants 'proper' telephone numbers and email addresses of BT IRELAND then I have them, including the CEO. My original dossier proved the point that it is a complete waste of time trying to communicate with BT UK, it will get routed back here to Ireland. You sound to me like a disgruntled ex BT employee. ?
-""there is no reason why Irish customers of BT should be treated any different from English ones." - From what you wrote are you suggesting that UK customers have to ring BT IRELAND to get their problems solved. ? That appears to be the case by suggesting that IRISH customers call UK numbers. ?

Blackace

No, I am not an ex BT employee.

And the reason I have not responded is I've been away in India working for the last few months.

I posted those numbers thinking they might be of help to someone, but I see now that this kind of help is not required and indeed has initiated a suspicious response.

So thanks for the welcome. I will return to posting help on UK message boards where the response is a little more appreciative.

surveys

Blackace wrote:

No, I am not an ex BT employee.

And the reason I have not responded is I've been away in India working for the last few months.

I posted those numbers thinking they might be of help to someone, but I see now that this kind of help is not required and indeed has initiated a suspicious response.

So thanks for the welcome. I will return to posting help on UK message boards where the response is a little more appreciative.

Sorry old chap. but facts are facts, and life is life, at least here in Ireland. !
As an example, on the 11th I had no connection so I rang support. ! Quite a nightmare with being on hold, disappearing music, a dead phone, constant 'messages' etc.etc. and finally after 40 odd minutes getting a call back.The problem was resolved by the Indian support guy,who could show a few local people a thing or two. !
Now today again no connection. Call support. Same old rigmarole as before, only this time much worse, and on hold for just over 50 minutes. Then as the clock struck 9pm a new message "Our opening hours are 8am till 9pm weekdays", etc. etc. Goodbye. !!!! :mad: :mad:
Absolutely farsical. And, is somebody telling me that if I called the CEO's office in the UK that they would be at all interested, or would they tell me to politely 'bugger' off and use my own Irish telephone numbers. ???
Same thing applies to 'billing' and any other crap departments in BT Ireland. !
And so say we all. !

dub45

surveys wrote:

Sorry old chap. but facts are facts, and life is life, at least here in Ireland. !
As an example, on the 11th I had no connection so I rang support. ! Quite a nightmare with being on hold, disappearing music, a dead phone, constant 'messages' etc.etc. and finally after 40 odd minutes getting a call back.The problem was resolved by the Indian support guy,who could show a few local people a thing or two. !
Now today again no connection. Call support. Same old rigmarole as before, only this time much worse, and on hold for just over 50 minutes. Then as the clock struck 9pm a new message "Our opening hours are 8am till 9pm weekdays", etc. etc. Goodbye. !!!! :mad: :mad:
Absolutely farsical. And, is somebody telling me that if I called the CEO's office in the UK that they would be at all interested, or would they tell me to politely 'bugger' off and use my own Irish telephone numbers. ???
Same thing applies to 'billing' and any other crap departments in BT Ireland. !
And so say we all. !

When are you going to clarify for us the 'mysteries' of the BT deposit - in particular why they will not provide a receipt when you promised to do this within a day or two several months ago?

surveys

dub45 wrote:

When are you going to clarify for us the 'mysteries' of the BT deposit - in particular why they will not provide a receipt when you promised to do this within a day or two several months ago?

Did I. ? If I did then it was a fairly stupid remark as nobody could expect to get an answer to such a question in a day or two. ! As far as I remember a promise was made by them to 'look into' ALL 'specific' complaints about Deposits sent on to them, but not to look into the actual arrangement or the deposit system in general. That was a matter of 'company policy' not open to review.
I will write and ask them again, about it, but I doubt I will get a response due to the current situation with regard to 'relationships'. I would have thought that my posting here, plus others I have made around Boards recently about BT would have caused members to put 2 and 2 together. ?

You quoted my post, but did not then refer to it at all ? I don't see where I mentioned anything about 'deposits'. ?

Solair

BT Ireland's billing system seems to be one of the great mysteries of the world. I don't know how they're getting away with it for so long.

If they send debt collectors to your door or damage your credit rating and you clearly don't owe them money - consult a solicitor.

It's not legal and it's potentially something you ought to be getting paid damages for. Particularly if they've sullied your good name.

Changing your credit rating without due cause to do so could be construed as defamation of character.
If it prevented you from getting a loan/mortgage or increased your rate etc it would have financial consequences which are not of your making.

I don't know why people are being so placid about this. If BT are not prepared to resolve the issue, take the details to a solicitor and see what he/she makes of it. It'd be well worth the consultation fee for the sake of getting those debt collectors off your back and it'd be a lot quicker than spending hours on the phone to people in call centres who clearly can't actually resolve the problem.

This issue is going on now for litterally years and I dont think BT are paying enough attention to it.

I'd love to know how their accounting system holds up when it comes to an audit for compliance with Irish Company Law. It'd be interesting to highlight it all to the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement - www.odce.ie

I mean, if the billing system's that chaotic, it'd leave you wondering about the accounting system behind it.

Sponge Bob

Solair wrote:

I'd love to know how their accounting system holds up when it comes to an audit for compliance with Irish Company Law I mean, if the billing system's that chaotic, it'd leave you wondering about the accounting system behind it.

That will be difficult , its moving to India shortly I hear Mind you the Indians could not possibly make a bigger ballsup of the whole thing than the Irish themselves have for year and years so here is hoping as usual

dub45

surveys wrote:

Did I. ? If I did then it was a fairly stupid remark as nobody could expect to get an answer to such a question in a day or two. ! As far as I remember a promise was made by them to 'look into' ALL 'specific' complaints about Deposits sent on to them, but not to look into the actual arrangement or the deposit system in general. That was a matter of 'company policy' not open to review.
I will write and ask them again, about it, but I doubt I will get a response due to the current situation with regard to 'relationships'. I would have thought that my posting here, plus others I have made around Boards recently about BT would have caused members to put 2 and 2 together. ?

You quoted my post, but did not then refer to it at all ? I don't see where I mentioned anything about 'deposits'. ?

If your 'relationship' with BT has changed then why not tell boards members about that? A lot of people saw this 'relationship' as indication of a big change on the part of BT towards their customers and if they have 'reneged' on it then people should know. Why the vagueness and the having to put 2 and 2 together. BT's billing often cant put 2 and 2 together:)

dub45

Solair wrote:

BT Ireland's billing system seems to be one of the great mysteries of the world. I don't know how they're getting away with it for so long.

If they send debt collectors to your door or damage your credit rating and you clearly don't owe them money - consult a solicitor.

It's not legal and it's potentially something you ought to be getting paid damages for. Particularly if they've sullied your good name.

Changing your credit rating without due cause to do so could be construed as defamation of character.
If it prevented you from getting a loan/mortgage or increased your rate etc it would have financial consequences which are not of your making.

I don't know why people are being so placid about this. If BT are not prepared to resolve the issue, take the details to a solicitor and see what he/she makes of it. It'd be well worth the consultation fee for the sake of getting those debt collectors off your back and it'd be a lot quicker than spending hours on the phone to people in call centres who clearly can't actually resolve the problem.

This issue is going on now for litterally years and I dont think BT are paying enough attention to it.

I'd love to know how their accounting system holds up when it comes to an audit for compliance with Irish Company Law. It'd be interesting to highlight it all to the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement - www.odce.ie

I mean, if the billing system's that chaotic, it'd leave you wondering about the accounting system behind it.

I have wondered about this too for a long time. I am no accountant but logic would say that someone in there has to verify that their accounts etc are all in order - however they have introduced a deposit system which appears to have no procedures or rules etc. Now surely when this was being introduced in any normal company a formal accounting procedure and audit trail would have to be set up for holding of moneys from a third party etc etc? a formal procedure would be set up to ensure receipts were issued and a refund procedure put in place together with agreed time periods etc etc?

It appears that the ordinary consumer in spite of all the agencies that are supposed to protect us has in fact very little protection - look at NTL's antics recently.

As for going to a solictior etc etc sadly for a lot of peple the offputting thing here is the potential cost of setting out on this route and I think lots of companies are prepared to face the average joe soap down on this.

Solair

If it happened in the states it would end up being a class action law suit by a large group.

Sponge Bob

BT did behave for a long time last year but ONLY after severe pressure on Boards and also the Consumers association. As its been a year (almost) since they promised the consumers association that they would behave then its probably time to start telling the Consumers Association that BT are back on the same old same old ripping the consumer off / lying as customer service / and total incompetence track.

You may post your observations on recent BT antics here on the Consumers Association website.

To make it even juicier, the head of the Consumers Association is ALSO on the Comreg Consumer panel so you are bringing BT to the notice of Comreg as well

Surveys engaged with BT to try to change their mindset. He had some good results but as their culture of ineptitude is so ingrained they lost their focus on what he was telling them. Things will be much harder to fix once they are all in India later this year so now is the time . It is also possible that some CS jobs will be in Armagh given that the outsourcing company in India does some of its CS front end stuff there nowadays.

dub45

I had a long session yesterday on the phone with a nice man from ipso about the 'wrongs' of the direct debit system. Did not get very far of course - however in spite of the fact that their website does not mention it (conveniently) of course IPSO will get involved in dd disputes if pressurised so if anyone is at the end of their wits with BT or probably these days NTL no harm to remember ipso whose line is that DD is such a popular form of payment and we get very few complaints. So let them have it!

www.ipso.ie

Incidentally I put it to him about the difficulty involved for a customer in trying to contact NTL or BT simply to dispute a bill in advance of the dd hitting the account - he was aware of the difficulties of course - but it is nothing to do with ipso its a matter between yourself and the company. So in granting the dd facility to a company no account appears to be taken of their track record in dealing with customers.

The dd system becomes more of a farce by the day - it is a payment system run by the banks for their business customers and the least concern is for joe soaps like ourselves sadly.

surveys

dub45 wrote:

When are you going to clarify for us the 'mysteries' of the BT deposit - in particular why they will not provide a receipt when you promised to do this within a day or two several months ago?

Received from BT Ireland today.
"" Have contacted relevant teams about deposits - the process is being reviewed within the next three weeks by Consumer and Finance Depts and I'll be able to come back shortly after with an update.""

This was our previous response, so the review builds on that improvement plan of last year.

""The deposit issue you raised is part of our ongoing improvement plan. Firstly we had to develop a system whereby customers receive their letter of receipt for deposits paid. This system is now in place and letters of receipt are being issued to new customers. Secondly we are in the process of building an automated system whereby customers who are not in arrears on their account are proactively refunded their deposit after 12 months. Until this system is automated, we would ask customers to call us on freephone 1904 to discuss their deposit refund. ""

dub45

surveys wrote:

Received from BT Ireland today.
"" Have contacted relevant teams about deposits - the process is being reviewed within the next three weeks by Consumer and Finance Depts and I'll be able to come back shortly after with an update.""

This was our previous response, so the review builds on that improvement plan of last year.

""The deposit issue you raised is part of our ongoing improvement plan. Firstly we had to develop a system whereby customers receive their letter of receipt for deposits paid. This system is now in place and letters of receipt are being issued to new customers. Secondly we are in the process of building an automated system whereby customers who are not in arrears on their account are proactively refunded their deposit after 12 months. Until this system is automated, we would ask customers to call us on freephone 1904 to discuss their deposit refund. ""

Thanks for that but all it displays is mindboggling incompetence and lax financial controls and more bother for customers. How any supposedly responsible company could demand deposits from customers without having the appropriate procedures in place defies credulity.

And hey three cheers! Produce a letter of receipt for a deposit?? what a magnificent technological and procedural achievement:rolleyes:

Are they only asking customers awaiting refunds to contach them via boards or are they actually pursuing this with those affected customers?

And will they actually be answering freephone1904 anyway promptly????

Just an additonal request if anyone joining up to BT has received one of these receipt letters could they let us know and perhaps give details of the contents?