Diesel V Petrol

0lordy · 22-09-2005 1:27pm #1

Hopefully someone can help me out here - just trying to do the sums on buying a diesel v petrol car. Looking at a 2 year-old Avensis, and keeping it for 3 years, here's roughly how the numbers stack up:

Cost difference (Petrol - Diesel) over three years, comparing a 1.8 Petrol with 2.0 Diesel (comparable engines sizes)

Cost -2,000 Diesel car more expensive

Insurance -150 Higher insurance on higher capacity engine

Fuel 1,783 Cheaper for diesel car, based on 20,000 miles per year, Petrol car 39MPG, Diesel car 48 MPG, Diesel fuel €1.11, Petrol €1.15

Road tax -507 Cheaper road tax for smaller engine

Resell after 3 years1,000 Assuming lower depreciation rate on diesels

Total Saving €126 = not much of a saving for diesel?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought there would be more significant savings for a diesel car?

Illkillya · 22-09-2005 1:32pm

As I understand it, Diesel cars are generally more expensive to service? This would cancel out the 126euro

ds20prefecture · 22-09-2005 1:34pm

You've pretty much got it spot on. Don't forget that the servicing costs on a diesel can be higher than petrol.

I'm surprised your insurance is higher on the diesel - they generally go on power output rather than engine capacity.

opto · 22-09-2005 1:57pm

I reckon your petrol consumption figure is way too optimistic.
I know the figure is different for everyone as it depends on driving style and route etc. butI would salute anyone who can get an average of 39mpg from a 1.8 petrol motor in everyday driving

prospect · 22-09-2005 2:05pm

the big savings would be if you could get your hands on a 1.6l diesel...

el tel · 22-09-2005 2:33pm

I have a diesel in the stable - a VW 1.9 Tdi, 110PS and I can get just over 700 miles on a full tank. It goes like $hit off a shiny shovel and even when I drive hard the fuel consumption barely increases. Diesel is the way to go even if it's just for the illusion of savings associated with only having to visit the petrol station once every 4 weeks.
(we have a 1.6 Beetle on the go too and it has never seen anything over 35mpg)

tylerdylan · 22-09-2005 2:52pm

Hi Guys
Can u please help out again..
My husband drives a 1.4 petrol to Dublin 5 days/wk its about 80 miles round trip.He spends about 80 euro a week on petrol.Ins is ok and tax is the lower one.He really needs a diesel he says.How much would you really save on a diesel? Ins will be higher cos the engine will be about 2 litre and the tax also higher.We would have to borrow money to buy the diesel so would there really be a saving?
O.P hope u dont mind me throwing my question out there :rolleyes:
Tks a mil Guys

bazz26 · 22-09-2005 4:05pm

opto wrote:

I reckon your petrol consumption figure is way too optimistic.
I know the figure is different for everyone as it depends on driving style and route etc. butI would salute anyone who can get an average of 39mpg from a 1.8 petrol motor in everyday driving

Yes I drive a 2003 1.8 petrol Avensis and do about 24k miles a year including to and from work. I am lucky to get about 32 mpg on average as it is quite a heavy car.

I was thinking of changing to diesel also but was calculating the difference also and it wasn't much so I am going to stick with what I have at the moment and see what happens in the long term with the price of fuel rather than runing out spending big money on a diesel in a panic.

Imo you really would want to be doing big mileage to reap the benefits of diesel and would want to be keeping it longer than 3 years to notice it.

bazz26 · 22-09-2005 4:17pm

Also what might be worth considering is a lower capacity diesel engine.

Peug have a 1.6 110bhp diesel engine in the 407, this engine is also available in the 307, Citroen C4, C5, Mazda 3 and Ford Focus. This engine is just as nippy if not more than some of the 2.0 diesels out there. Still returning excellent mpg but with cheaper tax and insurance.

Might be a more viable option.

murphaph · 22-09-2005 5:09pm

Have you driven the 1.8 petrol and 2.0 diesel avensis? I am one of those people who prefer the drive in a diesel, it's different, so that should be part of your decision.

If fuel economy is a big factor in your sums perhaps you should consider a smaller cc engine.

el tel · 22-09-2005 5:29pm

Tylerdylan - Don't be afraid to go for a used older car - a TDi VW or Audi 5-6 years old with around 60-80k on the clock can still be a fantastic buy for little money. I personally wouldn't consider buying a new anything, especially something with a teeny engine or anything from the Peugot or Citroen range, as you might as well be throwing your money in the fire given the depreciation hit you'll take.

I know a few people who have had 1.5 DCI Renault Meganes and they were easily getting 60mpg. These things are reasonably cheap to buy second hand (having depreciated hugely initially) and there are plenty about -certainly in the North.

Guy:Incognito · 22-09-2005 5:30pm

0lordy wrote:

Road tax -507 Cheaper road tax for smaller engine

Tax on a 2l is €540 so unless tax on the 1.8 is €33 I dont see how it could be €507 cheaper. Or am I missing somthing?

jayok · 22-09-2005 5:37pm

Just to throw a spanner in the works my wife drives an 03 1.6 VTEC Civic (petrol) and she really only uses for City driving to and from work. She has never gotten below 40mpg and on long runs will get about 50mpg. It's a nice easy drive with enough power and torque (110 bhp and 152Nm) and only needs servicing every 12,500 miles (20,000 kms). A full service (two weeks ago) cost €178 off a main dealer.

I don't really think that there's much saving to be made in running costs here. If you get the right petrol engine it can be efficient. Interesting this engine is more efficient than the 1.4 she had before this.

To the tylerdylan: Perhaps have a look around at different MPGs. Not all 1.6's are the same.

0lordy · 22-09-2005 8:02pm

Thanks for all your replies. I had an "assumption" that diesel was a good deal more economical than petrol, but maybe this is unfounded. Let's see if I can respond to some of your comments;

Illkillya: In theory, diesel cars are serviced more often, but the services are more straight forward and therefore cheaper? I just vaguely remember reading this, but it could be way off the mark In any case, I don't a whole pile on servicing my 7 year-old diesel avensis, I don't see much potential for saving there.

ds20prefecture: I think insurance costs go on capacity, but I might be wrong

opto: took the official combined consumption MRG from toyota, so I reckon both figures are way too optimistic!

prospect: The Avensis only comes in 2 litres Diesel. The brother has a 1.4 litres Diesel 307 which he swears by, hugely economical

tylerdylan: do the maths and plug in at least 30,000 miles per year - this will make it more economical Also smaller diesel engines with not take the hit for tax or insurance

murphaph: good point, I would be more inclined to drive a diesel But I'm pretty much set on buying an Avensis

Stekelly: Spot on, that should be a €165 difference over the 3 years 539-484=55 per year)

Big Nelly · 23-09-2005 8:50am

OK had a 1.6 petrol for for a tank of petrol costing 40 euro(when it was cheap less than a euro) I was lucky to get close to 300-340 miles for the full thank.....got well sick of that after a while....swapped to a Passat 1.9Tdi 90Bhp model and for a tnak of 50 quid(expensive petrol over 1 euro a ltr) and I will get 550 and more for long driving on every fill! never goes under 550.....so how you can say petrol is the same as diesel is beyond me? if you want to be a petol head by all means go ahead but people saying petrol is cheaper to run than Diesel are mental

Also this about a petrol is cheaper to service? how you work this out? it is well known that there is more wear and tear on a petrol engine.....go over 100K with most petrols and you will have to start replaceing parts(on mine gearbox, clutch) but on a diesel when you hit 100K it is only start to open the engine.....get to around 150K and more and you still shouldnt have a problem is you take care of it!!

freewing · 23-09-2005 9:03am

a couple of things i would point out on the petrol v diesel debate
i recently bought a diesel firstly cos i needed a bigger car and i do about 23000 miles a year and secondly high mileage on a diesel wont affect the resale as badly as it would a petrol . if you are consiering a smaller diesel engine ie 1.7ltr or less make sure it can still overtake on a motorway especially if you do high mileage.lastly i was putting €65 into my 1.2 petrol and now i put €50 into the 1.9 diesel for the same distance.hope this helps. Eric

sirlinux · 23-09-2005 9:09am

tylerdylan wrote:

Hi Guys
Can u please help out again..
My husband drives a 1.4 petrol to Dublin 5 days/wk its about 80 miles round trip.He spends about 80 euro a week on petrol.Ins is ok and tax is the lower one.He really needs a diesel he says.How much would you really save on a diesel? Ins will be higher cos the engine will be about 2 litre and the tax also higher.We would have to borrow money to buy the diesel so would there really be a saving?
O.P hope u dont mind me throwing my question out there :rolleyes:
Tks a mil Guys

Ford, peugot, seat,vw,skoda (fiesta,fusion, fabia, 206, 307,ibiza, cordoba...) all do a 1.4 diesel, tax is cheap (same as you pay now) on it and they all do nearly 70mpg you can get 600 miles out of a 40 litre tank. €35 a week would cover your other halfs weekly commute, service intervals are about 12-15000 on them all and ford would probably be the cheapest for servicing.

iregk · 23-09-2005 9:20am

Have a 2lt dturbo myself. I will never buy another petrol car. Diesel is cheaper, ok tax is worse but fuel consumption and insurance is amazing.

My insurance on that car is €600 (im 26 by the way) and the preformance out of it is brilliant. Would take most 1.8 petrols on all the way and still give me high 40's in mpg also you have huge torque from a diesel. With a D you really need to do long driving though to get your moneys worth. No good buying it and driving 8k a year! Servicing can by more expensive but not by much and diesel engines give less trouble as well as they rotate slower than petrol which also makes them last a lot longer.

There is a reason 90% of taxi drivers use diesel cars and all commercial are typically diesel.

0lordy · 23-09-2005 12:31pm

Big Nelly wrote:

if you want to be a petol head by all means go ahead but people saying petrol is cheaper to run than Diesel are mental

I was making the point that it is assumed that diesel is way cheaper, but when you do the sums, the overall cost is much the same. Cheaper fuel costs are offset by higher cost of D car, insurance, tax.

I agree with the longevity of the diesel engine - I'm on 160K miles and the only problem I've ever had in 4 years I've had it was to replace the alternator.

Big Nelly · 23-09-2005 2:45pm

0lordy wrote:

I was making the point that it is assumed that diesel is way cheaper, but when you do the sums, the overall cost is much the same. Cheaper fuel costs are offset by higher cost of D car, insurance, tax.

I agree with the longevity of the diesel engine - I'm on 160K miles and the only problem I've ever had in 4 years I've had it was to replace the alternator.

Why is insurance cost more? it depends on your age. I am paying just abit more insurance on my car and that is because I have got a better policy than I had on petrol car and decided I wanted a better policy....its my own policy as well

What age are you? full license? location? it all depends on this......everyone I know has changed from petrol to Diesel because it is better.....GF bought an Audi A3 1.6 when I bought my car....only bought because she liked the look of them......going to change soon to get a diesel to save money......not sure about tax....I was paying nearly 400 on 1.6 and now paying just over 500 quid which I dont see as been too bad seeing as it is a newer car and alot bigger on road!!!

petrol consuption you have worked out is wrong.....I can tell you that! I dont have number to back this up but I know from experience!!

prospect · 23-09-2005 2:57pm

I had a big long reply to this typed up, then I went out to lunch, and when I came back the i-net had crashed and the reply gone..

Anyway the jist of it was:
If you take a petrol and diesel car, both the same engine size, from new, and drive 125K miles over 5 years, the diesel is nearly €7K cheaper.

0lordy · 24-09-2005 12:29pm

prospect wrote:

I had a big long reply to this typed up, then I went out to lunch, and when I came back the i-net had crashed and the reply gone..

Anyway the jist of it was:
If you take a petrol and diesel car, both the same engine size, from new, and drive 125K miles over 5 years, the diesel is nearly €7K cheaper.

Yeah, I guess the longer you keep the diesel car the better, to defray the higher purchase price. The diesel engine would need to be bigger to get similar horses.

Anyway, looks like I'll stick with the diesel, somewhat for the cost, but primarily for reliability

Thanks for all your responses.

ds20prefecture · 24-09-2005 2:23pm

0lordy wrote:

The diesel engine would need to be bigger to get similar horses.

Not at all. PSA 1.6 Hdi is 110bhp. VAG 1.9TDi up to 150bhp depending on model. Fiat 1.9JTD up to 150bhp depending on model.Not to mention the much greater torque.

Turbo diesel cars present much more tuning options than naturally aspirated petrol cars too. e.g. VAG 1.9 TDi has been "chipped" to 180bhp.

Diesel V Petrol

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