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electrical goods recycling tax
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23-09-2005 6:33pm#1me ma was describing a big arguement with joe duffy and dick roche over this yesterday,
a man went into powercity or some place like that bought shelfs for hi-fi speakers ( plastic, wood) and was charged a fee for _electrical_ goods recycling...
others complaining about whats seems like a minimun fee on things like toys, taxs greaters then the price of the of the original item...,tax payed twice going from busines to business to customer..., companies refusing to take back fridges and cookers...
ps still no few facilities to recycling white goods in ireland
dick roche passing to the buck to "europe" and they overwheliming desire to recycle0
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Basically, brown stuff and derision as callers rang Liveline yesterday and today complaining about the new stealth-tax being imposed by the government-slash-Brussels on all things electrical.
For example, Argos charging a additional €5 on some battery powered kids-toy that was 19.95 in their catalogue and also charging an additional €1 recycling charge on...wait for it...watches! Lidl also charging €2 recycling charge on those light-up kids trainers because they are officially classed as 'electrical goods'.
Upshot was that minister Dick Roche came on air, and a shouting match ensued between himself and Joe Duffy.
I don't think people are to aware of how this new charge is affecting prices as most haven't hit the shops for their Xmas shopping yet, but soon, in the immortal words of the Kaiser Cheifs, I predict a riot.
The public mood is already ugly enough after Mr.Hobbs, this new stealth tax may prove to be FF's own 'tax on childern's shoes' moment.
Eight of the EU countries, including the UK, have refused to implement this EU-imposed tax so far. Yet, we as the diligent Euro-citizens we are, go falling over ourselves to obey any EU directive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the environment, save the Whale roysh, etc, but I'm already paying...
1) Rip off prices for everything
2) Plastic bag charges
3) One of the highest rates of VAT in the Eurozone
4) Weekly bin-tag charges
and now a new 25% tax on all of the above? Oh, any by the way, the environmental disposal levy is charged *after* VAT, so basically I'm paying tax on my tax (technically tax on my tax on my tax if you include PAYE/PRSI).
Personally, as in from today, I shall be hauling-ass up to Newry on a forthnightly basis for basically, well, everything.0 -
How exactly is it a stealth tax when its quite openly added on and explained on catalogues/price tickets?
BTW the retailers are getting charged the emc charges by supplyers aswell so they arent gaining from charging consumers, they just arent losing anything.DublinWriter wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the environment, save the Whale roysh, etc, but I'm already paying...
1) Rip off prices for everything
2) Plastic bag charges
3) One of the highest rates of VAT in the Eurozone
4) Weekly bin-tag charges.
Dont forget one of the lowest income tax rates and highest pay rates.
Leave the one sided rants to eddie hobbs, they may look good but dont make for a convincing arguement.DublinWriter wrote:and now a new 25% tax on all of the above? Oh, any by the way, the environmental disposal levy is charged *after* VAT, so basically I'm paying tax on my tax (technically tax on my tax on my tax if you include PAYE/PRSI).
Personally, as in from today, I shall be hauling-ass up to Newry on a forthnightly basis for basically, well, everything.
It may work out at 25% on somethign that costs €10, but on a €3000 plasma its .75% so it works both ways. Again the one sided arguement can be applied.0 -
Because when you go to the counter in Argos with the intentions of purchasing the item that you saw listed for 19.95 in their catalogue, you'll be met with "that'l be 24.95 please".Stekelly wrote:How exactly is it a stealth tax when its quite openly added on and explained on catalogues/price tickets?0 -
DublinWriter wrote:Because when you go to the counter in Argos with the intentions of purchasing the item that you saw listed for 19.95 in their catalogue, you'll be met with "that'l be 24.95 please".
Thats only becaus eArgos have their catalogues printed ages ago, the new one (when it comes) will have the prices up to date. Do you complain when you go to the counter to buy something that was priced 6 months ago to find out its now cheaper?
All other shos that dont work off priced catalogues have the prices clearly shown.0 -
Damn right I don't! But then again, stuff priced 6 months ago was probably cheaper anyways.Stekelly wrote:Thats only becaus eArgos have their catalogues printed ages ago, the new one (when it comes) will have the prices up to date. Do you complain when you go to the counter to buy something that was priced 6 months ago to find out its now cheaper?
Do you complain when stuff priced 6 months ago turns out to be more expensive when you go to the check out?
True, so maybe it's only a half-stealth tax then?Stekelly wrote:All other shos that dont work off priced catalogues have the prices clearly shown.0 -
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DublinWriter wrote:Do you complain when stuff priced 6 months ago turns out to be more expensive when you go to the check out?
?
Im not complaining at all.0 -
Further madness: I was in Lidl today and saw those little electronic tyre pressure measuring devices about the size of a big keyring.
Cost €6.99 plus a €2 recycling charge. Hair Dryers were €8.99 plus a €3 recycling charge.
Madness.0 -
I listened to two days of this on Liveline during the week...
The biggest issue in my book was the news clip from about 2 months back of Roche catgorically stating that "he did not believe that the cost would be pushed on to the consumer".
In the face of a recording of his own voice he argued black was white on the issue and was downright rude to one caller and seemingly ignorant of any facts on this whole shambles.
Plenty of people calling in about this item and that cost add-on, but the few that stuck in my mind were people trying to get shops to take back old, replaced items upon delivery of new replacements and being told where to go....the kid's trainers with the little LEDs in the sole is a good one (I mean FFS).
Being charged VAT on TOP of the actual WEE tax!?!
It's a complete clusterf*ck....this government body doesn't seem to have gotten anything orgnaised right about implementing this...the public in general don't seem to have been made aware of it (I know us boardsters had fair warning)...small and medium businesses seem to be in the dark on charges, who to pay the money on to, what to do about older stock.
Roche's own admission that the rates were going to be reviewed very soon, points to the fact that they're running before they can walk on this one, stumbling over themselves to look good to the EU, since we have a litany of enviromental problems and issues which Brussels has been chasing after us for years about.
I'm as much for recycling as anyone, but I fail to see why we have to pay in advance for it, since for the most part, at least when it comes to electrical items, we pay at point of disposal anyhow. Recycling facilites are a bad joke in this country and we've only had green bins for what, 2 -3 yrs? In some places not even for that length of time....yet there are still a multitude of items you can't PUT in a green bin, which only gets lifted once a month and is charged for along with your regular service (at least in my part of the country)
How about we reroute some of the cash private waste companies are raking in, in a form of corporation tax and use THAT money to build the recycling centres we need to safely dispose of dangerous or polluting electrical items? As it stands we're being taxed on the double and it's laughable to think that the money collected by this scheme will go anywhere near a fund to build more bring centres...more like it'll be used to prop up some other long overdue project that the money for was squandered on something else, years back.
Boy what a rant....last point;
When I lived in the US about 6 years back, the waste collection had a fully operational recycling collection facility, and had seemingly had so for a number of years prior. Here's a countrythat everyone lambasts on their attitude to pollution that was seemingly proactive on an issue they themselves would call a "no-brainer".
They didn't pay direct waste disposal chrages either (okay it was done in property taxes which is a whole other matter) but it was local authority NOT private waste companies that did the weekly trash collection.
One more point and something that someone else brought up earlier in the thread...this tax is not being charged in the North....this is going to actually hurt retailers of certain goods in the Republic, especially close to the border. I already do a fair bit of my shopping in Newry, electrical goods are just another thing to add to the list. I also buy most electronic items online from outside of the state...this tax just gave me more incentive to do so.
How do the idiots that come up with these policies even get elceted, let alone manage to be appointed to such important governemental jobs? The mind boggles...0 -
So the difference in recycling charge calculated on the percentage of an item wholesale from a distributor and the same item sold at retail goes where exactly?Stekelly wrote:BTW the retailers are getting charged the emc charges by supplyers aswell so they arent gaining from charging consumers, they just arent losing anything.
How about we drop the FF standard party-line about low tax and instead talk about Net Tax rather than income tax. A Mini can fit 6 people if you take all the seats out. Income Tax is only *one* type of tax.Stekelly wrote:Dont forget one of the lowest income tax rates and highest pay rates.0 -
Do you want your children to grow us as pawns to these people?
Vote with your feet.
Emmigrate.
I did.
Don't cod yourselves, it's never going to get better. :mad:0 -
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I feel that many just threw away electical applicances in their domestic refuse. I knew a guy who smashed his old TV and put it in with his refuse. This was environmentally wreckless.
Putting a levy on electrical applicances makes little since as how many will bring old electrical applicances back to the shop.
Having to pay for a service like refuse is not a stelth tax - It is encouraging this country to cop onto recycling.0 -
DublinWriter wrote:So the difference in recycling charge calculated on the percentage of an item wholesale from a distributor and the same item sold at retail goes where exactly?.
Its not a percentage, its a set amount. Large tv's (over 30") are all €20 regardless of cost.0 -
DublinWriter wrote:How about we drop the FF standard party-line about low tax and instead talk about Net Tax rather than income tax. A Mini can fit 6 people if you take all the seats out. Income Tax is only *one* type of tax.
Fair enough so. In Germany you pay for water and waste. Lets not all sit here and cry poverty, we re all doing well for ourselves and can afford to pay for the thinjgs we took for granted for years but others in Europe had to pay for.
I seem to remeber a couple of major arguements against water and waste rates were "I'm not paying it because we never paid for it before". People are very quick to start up threads when somthing is not up to scratch but dont want toohave to pay for anything,0 -
Hi All
I think some facts about the EU WEEE directive are needed.
The WEEE directive was published in 2003. Ireland was supposed to pass the legislation to bring it into effect last year, but the politicians were too busy with the presidency of the EU. IT only passed into legislation in July 2005. The UK will be bringing it in, in Jan 2006. Dick Roche decided in his 'wisdom' that we should not wait until Jan 2006. he pushed it through with very little planning. (God aren;t we a great country, really pushing for a safer environment)
The producer of the Electronic is responsible for disposing of the goods. A producer is defined as the one who imports, manufactures or rebadges the goods.
The cost of the disposal of any goods sold after 13th August will be borne by the producers.
Historical waste refers to goods sold prior to the 13th of August. The producers complained about having to pay for the disposal of goods produced by companies which were no longer in business or were no longer supplying electronic goods. I dont think mitsubishi will be selling any more electronic goods here. Why should Philips pay to dispose of mitsubishi's historic waste.
That is why the Environmental Management Charge (EMC) was introduced. IT will last for 8 years for small electonic goods and 10 years for larger ones.
Most producers wil have joined an organisation call WEEE Ireland. This organisation came up with the charge for each of the items. i.e €40 for a fridge.
Whdn a producer invoices a retailer, he puts the charge on the inivoice. The retailer is OBLIGED (it is in the legislation) to pass this cost on to the consumer. The invoice the consumer receives MUST show this cost separately. Every delivery docket and Invoice must show the retailers WEEE registration number also.
The price charged to the retailer by the producer is slightly less than that charged to the retailer. This is to defer costs of the retailer of storing and transporting the returned equipment.
If you are buying a piece of electronic equipment, the retailer is obliged to take back the equipment being replaced if requested by the consumer. Where goods are being delivered, the retailer must inform the consumer when the new goods are being delivered - within a certain time frame. IF the consumer wants the old equipment to be taken by the delivery man, the must have is disconnected from electricity, plumbing etc and have it ready to be collected. If this is not the case, the consumer must be told the alternative disposal method. (A bit wishy washy on this one)
If you now want to dispose of an electrical item you can bring it to your local civic amenity disposal centre and they will take it from you for free.
Argos seem to have gotten some form of derrogation because the charges were not known at the time they had to produce their catelogue.
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My own opinion
The concept of a charge itself is ok - but why do the government insist on having vat on the charge. Well I know why, but I think its a disgrace.
Dick Roche is a prat who forced through the implentation date even though the systems were/are not in place to deal with it properly. I heard him being interviewed on radio in July when he said the there would be no additional cost to the consumer - a lie (he wrote/published the legislation which said there would be a charge for 8-10 years)
Its evident that not many of the politicians or many people on this forum have a clue about the weee directive. This again is down to Dick Roche for the lack of information published in advance of 13th August.0 -
So did I and found it appauling.Wertz wrote:I listened to two days of this on Liveline during the week...Wertz wrote:The biggest issue in my book was the news clip from about 2 months back of Roche catgorically stating that "he did not believe that the cost would be pushed on to the consumer".
In the face of a recording of his own voice he argued black was white on the issue and was downright rude to one caller and seemingly ignorant of any facts on this whole shambles.
I can't believe anybody would fall for the tabloid nature of Joe Duffy while somebody was trying to explain something. First off the price hasn't gone up as such. There is a charge that didn't exist the item still costs the same. That is a bit like saying there is a new road tax when a toll is introduced. A charge for an additional service provided. You now don't have to pay for the disposal of items WEE is charged on. So you are getting a new service and those who consume pay the charge for present and future needs.
Secondly the quote was overplayed and taken out of context. Anytime the minister tried to explain the context and what was clearly meant Duffy over played it onto him.
He also said this before the rule was brought in. The initial charge is high as it has to set up systems that were not in place.Wertz wrote:Roche's own admission that the rates were going to be reviewed very soon, points to the fact that they're running before they can walk on this one, stumbling over themselves to look good to the EU, since we have a litany of enviromental problems and issues which Brussels has been chasing after us for years about.
Because what your saying isn't true. You pay a charge now to deal with the glut of goods and to help set up future facilities to cater for your TV etc... You no longer have to pay for disposal of such goods.Wertz wrote:I'm as much for recycling as anyone, but I fail to see why we have to pay in advance for it, since for the most part, at least when it comes to electrical items, we pay at point of disposal anyhow.Wertz wrote:One more point and something that someone else brought up earlier in the thread...this tax is not being charged in the North....this is going to actually hurt retailers of certain goods in the Republic, especially close to the border. I already do a fair bit of my shopping in Newry, electrical goods are just another thing to add to the list. I also buy most electronic items online from outside of the state...this tax just gave me more incentive to do so.
How do the idiots that come up with these policies even get elceted, let alone manage to be appointed to such important governemental jobs? The mind boggles...
The UK will have to pay a fine untill they set up a similar charge. THe same applies to all other EU countries without the tax. They will catch internet sales too.Just because their governement are unable to keep their promise do you think we shouldn't either? I have heard a lot of people say they shop up north, including a guy who is a bit of a republican at heart. I think it is hillarious that people would rather fund the UK economy over funding their own economy for the sake of a relatively small amount of money. How idiots come up with pride in their country and then avoid paying there way is strange to me.
The likes of Joe Duffy and Eddie Hobbes just feed the ignorant and popular opinion. Duffy should be ashamed of his behaviour as he justrefused to let the minister explain and then shouted a reactionary view. Either Duffy is a stupid or he just does it for ratings.
Some people will never really think before they get angry about paying money0 -
MorningStar wrote:So did I and found it appauling.
I can't believe anybody would fall for the tabloid nature of Joe Duffy while somebody was trying to explain something. First off the price hasn't gone up as such. There is a charge that didn't exist the item still costs the same. That is a bit like saying there is a new road tax when a toll is introduced. A charge for an additional service provided. You now don't have to pay for the disposal of items WEE is charged on. So you are getting a new service and those who consume pay the charge for present and future needs.
Secondly the quote was overplayed and taken out of context. Anytime the minister tried to explain the context and what was clearly meant Duffy over played it onto him.
I certainly don't use liveline as my only source of news, but what I do use it for is to guage the mood of listeners on certain issues.
Fair enough on Duffy playing the clip on repeat and latching on to one particular point but in fairness, Roche was back pedaling, and being evasive on answering the question. If he said in a previous interview there would be no cost passed on, the Duffy has every right to call him out on it. If what he said was untrue then he shouldn't have said it to begin with...it's obvious to me at least, that at the time of interview he purposely denied that the cost would be pushed onto the consumer to avoid any bad press on the WEEE before it went live. I disagree that it was out of context...the manwas asked a question (on the news at One clip) and he answered it, incorrectly as it turned out.
Your point on this not being an extra cost, is a bit pedantic; the bottom line is that the item costs extra to the consumer....no-one's counting what they're paying in VAT, WEEE or anything else, individually, when they pay for something....what they count is the final total, because that's what's coming out of their pocket.
When smaller cheaper items are having such a relatively large amount tacked on top of the retail price, that get's noticed, and to be fair these are the items which are least likely to ever make it as far as a recycling plant.
So we now get to pay to set up facilities that should have already been in place *before* the new system was implemented? Pathetic IMO. Why are we paying such extorionate waste disposal charges at it is? Why are these private companies not obliged to set up bring centres with a % of their vast takings?MorningStar wrote:
He also said this before the rule was brought in. The initial charge is high as it has to set up systems that were not in place.MorningStar wrote:Because what your saying isn't true. You pay a charge now to deal with the glut of goods and to help set up future facilities to cater for your TV etc... You no longer have to pay for disposal of such goods.
See above. I don't know what sped the EU seems to think consumers go through stuff like TVs and fridges, and if it's so high then why is the WEEE charge relatively low? The cost on smaller items mentioned above is out of kilter with that charged on something like the €3K plasma mentioned above and is likely to bring in significantly more revenue than the charge on larger items. Also on that point, smaller cheaper items are usually less of a luxury and more of a necessity, and are more likely to be on the shopping lists, of those in a lower economic bracket than the larger electronic items that will likely not see a recycling plant for many many years.
I'm all for "the polluter pays", don't think I'm not, but once again we see the less well off getting hit harder on yet another "stealth tax" (to use the buzzword).
Why isn't government policy going after excess packaging on everyday items? Why are manafacturers not being brought to bear on that issue?
It's indicative of Fianna Fáil's attitude to taxation on business; hit the man in the street in his pocket rather than bother the coffers of the multinationals. Clichéed view, I know, but that's how it looks from down here...MonringStar wrote:
The UK will have to pay a fine untill they set up a similar charge. THe same applies to all other EU countries without the tax. They will catch internet sales too.Just because their governement are unable to keep their promise do you think we shouldn't either? I have heard a lot of people say they shop up north, including a guy who is a bit of a republican at heart. I think it is hillarious that people would rather fund the UK economy over funding their own economy for the sake of a relatively small amount of money. How idiots come up with pride in their country and then avoid paying there way is strange to me.
I know it's coming to the UK and across the EU at some stage...so if the EU is so well organised then why couldn't a greater effort have been put into launching this EU-wide instead of staggering it?
My point on the cross border thing is that Roche et al have hurt smaller traders on the border (even more) by implementing it straight off the bat. If people can save a few quid, they're going to....national pride doesn't really come into it, a bit sad I know, but how can you really blame people for trying to be thrifty?
These days it matters little anyway, since most of the large retailers in the country are UK owned and run...it just so happens they seemingly make bigger profits this side of the water/border, so your point on funding the UK economy is moot.
Also it's pretty unfair to call someone who has pride in their country an idiot...they're an idiot for trying to save a few quid?
As for shopping up North the prices are only one part of it; I prefer the service, the mannerly staff, the better choice, the free parking... f*ck it, I enjoy not having to pay for a damn plastic bag to put my groceries in...if that sounds petty then so be it.MorningStar wrote:The likes of Joe Duffy and Eddie Hobbes just feed the ignorant and popular opinion. Duffy should be ashamed of his behaviour as he justrefused to let the minister explain and then shouted a reactionary view. Either Duffy is a stupid or he just does it for ratings.
Some people will never really think before they get angry about paying money
What's so wrong about feeding the ignornat and popular opinion? There's a lot of not-so-smart people out there that get talked down to on issues that involve them, by politicians everyday....those people have just as much right to be informed of what is going on...if that takes a tabloid style to get it across then so what? It's one thing peddling disinformation, but is what Hobbes or Duffy are coming out with any worse than the sh*te politicians come out with at any given opportunity?
The bottom line is that people are paying through the nose for all manner of stuff and they simply don't know why...the people who are suppoosed to be on their side in this regard (the people that were elected to do that job) don't appear to be on people's sides in ANY issue....the most the common man sees of them is the opening of something in the locality, a press/photo op on the telly or on their doorstep come election year....the rest of the time politicians come across as part of the problem....Roche's news interview whther out of context or not, just adds to fuel to the fire in that regard.
People like Hobbes and Duffy are seen as whistleblowers....people who for whatever reason seem to be able to speak what's on everyone else's minds about issues that effect them....politicians shoul;d be the voice of the people...instead we have these guys. Something wrong there somewhere...0 -
Isn't the recycling charge illegal ? I know, it is being charged on nearly everything but thankfully i haven't had to buy anything electrical yet since it's introduction. Eg. If i buy a fridge for say €250 and that what it costs, say €230 for the fridge and €20 recycling. Will i be charged to take the old fridge to the waste transfer station, because as luck would have it i got a new fridge before this charge came in and i now have 3 other old fridges to dispose of now, (they were acting as cupboards in a garage until Mr. Rat and his whole family moved in.) Do we still have to pay to recycle these after stumping up for the recycling fund already? Anyway it's more proof we need to withdraw from the EU.0
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netwhizkid wrote:Isn't the recycling charge illegal ? I know, it is being charged on nearly everything but thankfully i haven't had to buy anything electrical yet since it's introduction. Eg. If i buy a fridge for say €250 and that what it costs, say €230 for the fridge and €20 recycling. Will i be charged to take the old fridge to the waste transfer station, because as luck would have it i got a new fridge before this charge came in and i now have 3 other old fridges to dispose of now, (they were acting as cupboards in a garage until Mr. Rat and his whole family moved in.) Do we still have to pay to recycle these after stumping up for the recycling fund already? Anyway it's more proof we need to withdraw from the EU.
Read Paddyo's post....the WEEE is retroactive so to speak, but anecdotal evidence is pointing to the fact that retailers are shirking their part of the bargain by not taking back items...that will probably change...in fairness the system is new to all of us, but it's guidelines seem to be clear enough, just perhaps not as well publicised as they should be.
I know last time I went to my local recycling facility (Dundalk) I was charged to get in and then charged on what I had to get rid off, excluding paper plastics and glass, two of which I can already get rid of in green bin, which I'm charged for alongside my normal bin. Maybe this has changed, and according to Padyyo it should have...
I can't answer on what you have to do with your 3 fridges....TBH I think it only fair that you should have to paty to get rid of them, but you sure shouldn't have to pay on the duble as it were.
As for pulling out of the EU....let's not forget the good eurpoe has done for this country...I'm sometimes annoyed at some of their policies and ideas but you have to take the good with the bad.0 -
Hagar wrote:Do you want your children to grow us as pawns to these people?
Vote with your feet.
Emmigrate.
I did.
Don't cod yourselves, it's never going to get better. :mad:
Thats Damn right Hagar. It's never going to get better in fact it can just get worse...!!! :mad:0 -
Borderfox wrote:Thats Damn right Hagar. It's never going to get better in fact it can just get worse...!!! :mad:
We've had our 20 years of everything getting infinately better, now its the turn of the new european countries. Personally, I would see emigrating from europe to avoid paying an extra €20 for you tv a bit drastic and alarmist, but meh, its your call.
The fact is, you had to pay to dump tv's fridges etc properly before. Now you pay when you buy it and its free todump, whats the difference?
The only difference is that the dirty scroungers that looked for the nearest deserted laneway to dump their crap, now have an incentive to get the thing done properly as they have already paid for it.0 -
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Wrong. Go into your local LIDL and you'll find the WEE charge clearly indicated. Here's an example from what I saw today:MorningStar wrote:I can't believe anybody would fall for the tabloid nature of Joe Duffy while somebody was trying to explain something. First off the price hasn't gone up as such.
1) Hairdryer €8.99, WEE charge clearly marked as an addition of €3
2) Electronic Tyre Pressure guage, €6.99, plus WEE charge clearly marked as an addition of €1
Let's look at the truth and stay on-issue instead of having sneaky sideway snipes at Joe Duffy.
Personally, I do not object to paying recycling tax on large white goods such as 'fridges, TV's etc. But on kids trainers? Hairdryers? WATCHES?
As for all the other countries in the EU disobeying this law, I believe they will ultimately win their case as this charge can be interpreted as a tax/levy, and the EU most certainly is prohibited from instructing it's member states in the matter of taxation.
What does it tell you when Belgium itself, home of the EU, disregards this law? Meanwhile back in the auld sod we're almost tripping over ourselves trying to be pious and good little EU citizens.
...while millions of Euro in lost trade goes over the boarder each weekend.0 -
WEll you still seem to be using Duffy as a gauge on knowledge. THere was no back peddling. Roche said there will be a new charge the original plan was to get the producer to take it all. THe computer industry took it but others wouldn't. The service had to be set up. The decided they would charge more now to deal with all existing products. The logic of the charge is that everybody has had the use of goods that WEE is applied on. You maybe paying more than the cost of that particular good but you are paying for past sins. If you claim they are not doing this tell me what you think they are doing with it. You can complain about the charge all you like and call it what you like but if they are doing what they say with the charage do you still have a problem?Wertz wrote:I certainly don't use liveline as my only source of news, but what I do use it for is to guage the mood of listeners on certain issues.
Fair enough on Duffy playing the clip on repeat and latching on to one particular point but in fairness, Roche was back pedaling, and being evasive on answering the question.
So people can't think in any other way than "money out my pocket bad!". I actually think you are right, people aren't think about the issue or the charge just angry over having to pay for the true cost of their goods.Wertz wrote:Your point on this not being an extra cost, is a bit pedantic; the bottom line is that the item costs extra to the consumer....no-one's counting what they're paying in VAT, WEEE or anything else, individually, when they pay for something....what they count is the final total, because that's what's coming out of their pocket.
Say if a carbon tax was introduced, where peas from Kenya had an extra tax due to shipping fuel expenditure. People would get angry because peas have gone up right! It doesn't mean there is any less carbon in the air but Irish peas would also be able to seel on equal footing and they would also be more environmentally friendly. The lack of tax doesn't make the true cost of fuel use any less.
Yes becasue we wanted cheap goods. If the businesses were allowed do it themselves you wouldn't make sure the services were set -up in this country. They would go for the cheapest country. I am pretty sure theri are regs here that would make our export of waste cost us penalties as a country. The companies wouldn't pay that. Just becasue we are rich now doesn't mean we have all the same services as another rich economy. We are alcking we have to play catch up. It wasn't done and now has to be done.Wertz wrote:So we now get to pay to set up facilities that should have already been in place *before* the new system was implemented? Pathetic IMO. Why are we paying such extorionate waste disposal charges at it is? Why are these private companies not obliged to set up bring centres with a % of their vast takings?
It set by our government not EU. Certain good require extra handling an special care such as fridges.Wertz wrote:
See above. I don't know what sped the EU seems to think consumers go through stuff like TVs and fridges, and if it's so high then why is the WEEE charge relatively low?
THey aren't staggering it. Each country was given a dead line. We will reach ours other countries won't and pay a fine to do so. I would complain is they ended up paying the fine and not setting up the services. Would you be happier if they paid the fine?Wertz wrote:I know it's coming to the UK and across the EU at some stage...so if the EU is so well organised then why couldn't a greater effort have been put into launching this EU-wide instead of staggering it?
THe difference is you can't just move the money directly out of the country even if yoou are a UK company here. The wages are leaving the country, the tax being paid to another, the employment is not here etc... Don't lie toyourself spending your money out of the country is a lot differnt to spending it here now matter to who.Wertz wrote:My point on the cross border thing is that Roche et al have hurt smaller traders on the border (even more) by implementing it straight off the bat. etc...
These days it matters little anyway, since most of the large retailers in the country are UK owned and run...it just so happens they seemingly make bigger profits this side of the water/border, so your point on funding the UK economy is moot.
Not really, pay your way in your own country. Contribute to the country or you shut up really.Wertz wrote:Also it's pretty unfair to call someone who has pride in their country an idiot...they're an idiot for trying to save a few quid?
So you are all for the environment except when you have to pay for polluting it? If the service is bad somewhere complain, parking is free in most supermarkets here. You don't need plastic bags it takes a little bit of planning. If you can't handle it and complain about it yes you are petty in that case.Wertz wrote:I think it is fair, I am so proud and
As for shopping up North the prices are only one part of it; I prefer the service, the mannerly staff, the better choice, the free parking... f*ck it, I enjoy not having to pay for a damn plastic bag to put my groceries in...if that sounds petty then so be it.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Duffy and Hobbes spread disinformation. Distort facts to match popular uneducated belief. They prevent the facts from getting through. Tabloid style doesn't mean a "style" but a way of distorting facts and sensationalising unimportant issues. Hobbes did nothing but talk down to people and Duffy is doing an everyman method of shouting down people using a group to seem right.Wertz wrote:What's so wrong about feeding the ignornat and popular opinion? There's a lot of not-so-smart people out there that get talked down to on issues that involve them, by politicians everyday....those people have just as much right to be informed of what is going on...if that takes a tabloid style to get it across then so what? It's one thing peddling disinformation, but is what Hobbes or Duffy are coming out with any worse than the sh*te politicians come out with at any given opportunity?
Well being fed nonsence about the subject that reinforces their ignorance isn't going to help.Wertz wrote:The bottom line is that people are paying through the nose for all manner of stuff and they simply don't know why
THe problem is they aren't whistle blowers they are snake oil salesman. All they do is make people angry by lying to them and agreeing with the anger.Wertz wrote:People like Hobbes and Duffy are seen as whistleblowers....people who for whatever reason seem to be able to speak what's on everyone else's minds about issues that effect them....politicians shoul;d be the voice of the people...instead we have these guys. Something wrong there somewhere...
The bottom line is
1) for years people did not pay to recycle goods
2) a charge now will pay for past goods and future goods (everybody has benifited from these goods in their life)
3) the charge will be revised constantly to match up with costs
4) companies are meant to take the goods those who don't are acting illegally
5) it is not a stealth tax as you can see it on reciept
6) goods have not gone up it is a charge for a service you are able to use, if you don't use it (watches etc..) that is your problem
7) people who avoid paying the WEE by going North will benifit when they go to dispose of goods so are acting like paracites
People have to be made do it because they weren't doing it. Dumped washing machines in canals, lanes etc... Want to blame somebody it's your neighbour or the guy down the street. You have pride in your country pay to keep it clean then and do't make others do so.0 -
I don't know what sped the EU seems to think consumers go through stuff like TVs and fridges, and if it's so high then why is the WEEE charge relatively low?
Generally the lifetime of most electrical goods is estimated at 8 years. For large appliances such as Fridges and washing machines it is 10 years.
The EMC charge will be in place for 8-10 years as they reckon that the historical waste will have gone by that stage.
Paddyo0 -
Morningstar - maybe it's just me, but I can't read posts that long with about 10 quotes from a previous poster.
Can you make your points in a more clear and concise way please.0 -
DublinWriter wrote:Morningstar - maybe it's just me, but I can't read posts that long with about 10 quotes from a previous poster.
Can you make your points in a more clear and concise way please.
In fairness, it's the only way of picking out points in my posts he specifically disagrees with, and it's a lot more reader friendly than if it was all just one long paragraph addressing everything he has a problme with...
I CBA arguing back and forth...he makes some good points but he's not really going to change my overall view on the issue....he might change other's minds though.0 -
I brought it down to point format at the end to avoid confusion. I particular mentioned your point about watches too!DublinWriter wrote:Morningstar - maybe it's just me, but I can't read posts that long with about 10 quotes from a previous poster.
Can you make your points in a more clear and concise way please.
Basically it isn't a tax, prices haven't gone up you are paying for good you have used previously, it was all up front and duffy/hobbes are not honest.0 -
Didya? Sorry but I lost the will to live when I saw the length of the post.MorningStar wrote:I brought it down to point format at the end to avoid confusion. I particular mentioned your point about watches too!
You obviously haven't been to Lidl recently where the orignal cost of the electrical item is shown with the amount of new tax shown underneath in a smaller font. It's a no-brainer really - prices have gone up.MorningStar wrote:Basically it isn't a tax, prices haven't gone up you are paying for good you have used previously, it was all up front and duffy/hobbes are not honest.0 -
Hands up all those who think this tax will never be dropped.0
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Hagar wrote:Hands up all those who think this tax will never be dropped.
What you mean in 8-10 years? lol by that time there'll be two other levies on top of that charge, and we'll have completley forgotten about the WEEE.
...and there'll still be the same sh*tty recycling pick up collection and the same sparse collection of urban bring centres.0 -
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I have and what you seem to fail to understand is the concept of an addition charge and cost to you does not mean the item price has gone up. Item costs x before WEE comes in after it still costs x but you have to also to pay for a new service that you can use. It may mean more has come out of your pocket but the item cost no more.DublinWriter wrote:You obviously haven't been to Lidl recently where the orignal cost of the electrical item is shown with the amount of new tax shown underneath in a smaller font.
You can complain that it costs more to you but the item has not gone up! TO say the product has gone up is a lie with the exception on where Powercity put up the price of their goods along with charging WEE and were named for doing so.
I can understand dislike paying WEE but there is no need to listen to lies ,project what it might mean, use the service and not pay for it and take responsibility for the lack of recycling that this country has done.
To make it crystal clear
They have not you are paying for a new service, brain required to understand thisDublinWriter wrote:It's a no-brainer really - prices have gone up.
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