electrical goods recycling tax

fintan

I was in Argos today today to buy a microphone, first electrical purchase since the tax came in. Went to the counter to pay, lady behind the counter said its an extra euro in tax. I was a bit surprised, but thought fair enough.

Paid the money and picked up the leaflet about the tax to have a read.

On the back page of the leaflet in argos it says, in order to bring back something to be recycled you have to buy something that is an equivalent, eg Kettle to be recycled buy a new kettle.

I have to say I was pretty out raged at this, not only do I have to pay a tax on the purchase to cover the cost of recycling but if I want it recycled I also need to buy something!?!?!?!

Now I'm not sure if this is marketing fudge on behalf of Argos or if its going to be common practise, but I canceled my order, got a refund and left.

Paddyo

On the back page of the leaflet in argos it says, in order to bring back something to be recycled you have to buy something that is an equivalent, eg Kettle to be recycled buy a new kettle.

but if I want it recycled I also need to buy something

If you want the shop to take it back you do have to buy a like product.

If you want to recycle without purchasing an item, you are entitled to bring the old product to your local civic amenity recycling centre at no charge!!

Paddyo

Our man in Havana

Liveline wrote:

Producer Recycling Fund
Callers to Liveline expressed outrage and confusion at the implementation of the Producer Recycling Fund charge levied on electrical products. One caller highlighted the example of paying €21.99 at Argos for a child's toy and discovering to her dismay that she had to pay an additional €5 to the fund. Following her call to Liveline, the Department of Environment categorically stated that this charge was improper, as it does not apply to toys. More callers expressed their outrage at having to pay the charge on electrical goods at all. Others made the point that they were paying the charge on items which were unlikely to be recycled at all, such as watches and bulbs.

So Has Argos stopped charging now?

ciaran76

Bond-007 wrote:

So Has Argos stopped charging now?

They didn't yesterday when i was in there.

Gegerty

You also need the recipt of the like item that you bought. Considering most TV's last 15-20 years, what are the chances of you still having the receipt??

It's a rip off and the people defending it are the ignorant ones. Open your eyes fools, it's people like you that cough up €5.50 for a pint and €5 here and there on extra charges that let them get away with it.

Guy:Incognito

Gegerty wrote:

You also need the recipt of the like item that you bought. Considering most TV's last 15-20 years, what are the chances of you still having the receipt?? .

No you dont. theres nothing in the law about needing a receipt and I havent come across a shop that demands one.

MorningStar

Gegerty wrote:

You also need the recipt of the like item that you bought. Considering most TV's last 15-20 years, what are the chances of you still having the receipt??

Well there is your ignorance on the subject!

Gegerty wrote:

It's a rip off and the people defending it are the ignorant ones. Open your eyes fools, it's people like you that cough up €5.50 for a pint and €5 here and there on extra charges that let them get away with it.

Why is it a rip off? The cost of disposing of a TV is real. I can see it being a rip off if the charge is generating masses of profit but I don't think that will happen . As some people here have said they will buy up north meaning people but they will still have dispose of their old TV and the new one later. The republic has to deal with this waste. Why not go listen to Eddie Hobbes tell you how to think it's a lot easier than actually thinking for your self.

Plankmonkey

Stekelly wrote:

No you dont. theres nothing in the law about needing a receipt and I havent come across a shop that demands one.

Argos told me you need the receipt. don't you need to prove you've bought a similar electrical item?

Plankmonkey

MorningStar wrote:

Well there is your ignorance on the subject!


Why is it a rip off? The cost of disposing of a TV is real. I can see it being a rip off if the charge is generating masses of profit but I don't think that will happen . As some people here have said they will buy up north meaning people but they will still have dispose of their old TV and the new one later. The republic has to deal with this waste. Why not go listen to Eddie Hobbes tell you how to think it's a lot easier than actually thinking for your self.

Paying to recycle a watch is not a rip off? The shops are adding the charge to things they shouldn't be. Watches, toys, kids shoes with LED's in them (!) To be fair to them they have an extra bill to pay and nobody is too sure what is going on so they are covering their backs. Unfortunately it is the consumer who suffers, that is rip off Ireland we don't need Eddie Hobbs to explain things that we are subjected to in our day to day lives (for the record I didn't watch rip off Ireland).

People should pay the charge when they bring the item back, we shouldn't have to pay for something that we may or may not one day want to recycle. Charging when you buy the item might prevent people just dumping their fridges etc but again we all suffer for the crimes of the few and to be honest it's a lame excuse for the charges.

Guy:Incognito

Plankmonkey wrote:

Argos told me you need the receipt. don't you need to prove you've bought a similar electrical item?

You may need thereceipt of the new item you have just bought alright (thats if your not giving them the old item there and then that is because looking at the new item sitting on the floor beside you will cover that) to prove you bought a similar item and that it was in they're store you bought it.

Plankmonkey wrote:

Paying to recycle a watch is not a rip off? The shops are adding the charge to things they shouldn't be. Watches, toys, kids shoes with LED's in them (!) To be fair to them they have an extra bill to pay and nobody is too sure what is going on so they are covering their backs. Unfortunately it is the consumer who suffers, that is rip off Ireland we don't need Eddie Hobbs to explain things that we are subjected to in our day to day lives (for the record I didn't watch rip off Ireland). .

Hardly rip off Ireland , its a europe wide law introduced by the EU. Bertie didnt just wake up one morning with a thought in his head and throw it to the floor in the dail. Although if he had it would have been a very forward thinking and revolutionary thing for him to do.

I'm going to be spending €2k on a tv in january, I'm sure as hell not going to let a €20 charge to have something recycled bother me. coming up with 1% of the price is the least of my worries.

MorningStar

Plankmonkey wrote:

Paying to recycle a watch is not a rip off? The shops are adding the charge to things they shouldn't be.

THose shops are acting illegally. They are stealing money from people and will end up paying heavy fines.

Plankmonkey wrote:

People should pay the charge when they bring the item back, we shouldn't have to pay for something that we may or may not one day want to recycle. Charging when you buy the item might prevent people just dumping their fridges etc but again we all suffer for the crimes of the few and to be honest it's a lame excuse for the charges.

THe tax is to pay for historical items and future goods so what you are suggesting won't work. They are trying to make it so it's not a a question of choice to recycle it is the only option. There will certainly be a reduction in washing machines left in canals,lanes etc... They will also get recycled as opposed to put into land fill. As somebody who has had many such goods dumped by their garage I think it is proper that you can't aviod the cost of the stuff you use.

Plankmonkey

MorningStar wrote:

THose shops are acting illegally. They are stealing money from people and will end up paying heavy fines.

That's good to hear but again I'm just outlining the rip off factor in this and there's no denying that these shops are ripping people off.

I also found out that you must bring your old item back to the shop for recycling within 15 days (according to the woodies leaflet). Admitidly it is plenty of time to arrange getting your fridge etc to them but why should there be any limits? Maybe it might not suit me and I won't get around to it till next month? Maybe i want to wait until I get a new TV and bring them both together seeing as i'll need to rent a van or trailer to do it....Again the shops get to pocket the recycling money without actually recycling the goods. It's the attitude of the shops and the way in which they do these little things that infuriates me and makes me shout rip off. The shops will make a profit on this, albeit a small one. They have a fixed fee to pay for their recycling licence and thats it. Any extra money they get goes into their tills.

Guy:Incognito

Plankmonkey wrote:

That's good to hear but again I'm just outlining the rip off factor in this and there's no denying that these shops are ripping people off.

I also found out that you must bring your old item back to the shop for recycling within 15 days (according to the woodies leaflet). Admitidly it is plenty of time to arrange getting your fridge etc to them but why should there be any limits? Maybe it might not suit me and I won't get around to it till next month? Maybe i want to wait until I get a new TV and bring them both together seeing as i'll need to rent a van or trailer to do it....Again the shops get to pocket the recycling money without actually recycling the goods. It's the attitude of the shops and the way in which they do these little things that infuriates me and makes me shout rip off. The shops will make a profit on this, albeit a small one. They have a fixed fee to pay for their recycling licence and thats it. Any extra money they get goes into their tills.

Could you not just bring it the same way your getting your new item out of the shop?

BTW suppliers charge the fee to the shop in the first place so how is the shhop makingmoney exactly?

MorningStar

Plankmonkey wrote:

That's good to hear but again I'm just outlining the rip off factor in this and there's no denying that these shops are ripping people off.

That doesn't make the tax a rip off but companies misunderstanding things. A mistake at best a rip off at worse.

Plankmonkey wrote:

I also found out that you must bring your old item back to the shop for recycling within 15 days (according to the woodies leaflet). Admitidly it is plenty of time to arrange getting your fridge etc to them but why should there be any limits? Maybe it might not suit me and I won't get around to it till next month? Maybe i want to wait until I get a new TV and bring them both together seeing as i'll need to rent a van or trailer to do it....Again the shops get to pocket the recycling money without actually recycling the goods. It's the attitude of the shops and the way in which they do these little things that infuriates me and makes me shout rip off. The shops will make a profit on this, albeit a small one. They have a fixed fee to pay for their recycling licence and thats it. Any extra money they get goes into their tills.

You really should look into things more before they get you angry like this. First off you can now bring your electrical appliances to recycle centres around the country without a charge.
Secondly if the item is deliverd the company deleivery has to take the older item away (if clean an disconnected). You don't need to bring the item back to the store.
Thirdly the money doesn't go to the shop just like tax. It is managed by the state.
Fifthly you are shouting rip off without thinking or looking at the issue. THis a european directive that will apply to all countries in the EU

Plankmonkey

MorningStar wrote:

That doesn't make the tax a rip off but companies misunderstanding things. A mistake at best a rip off at worse.

I'll have to admit a certain amount of ignorance on the subject. In light of the faacts "rip off" is a bit strong. IMO the whole thing is just very Irish I'd like to see how other countries handle it.

Paddyo

What is really Irish about WEEE and EMC is the way it was introduced. Dick Roche blustered forward without any information being made public until it was signed into law in July of this year. Even then, the amount of information given out is lamentable.

Many businesses, electrical suppliers and retailers still do not know what is supposed to be the correct procedure. My company writes an accounting system for which we have a WEEE module. Many of my clients, who sell WEEE, have no idea what I am talking about when I mention it to them. Then there are the costs involved for companies.

If you produce WEEE, you have to pay the Irish Registration body €500 if you produce unter 1 million Euro, and €1000 if you product over that amount. (Im not sure if the figures are turnover for the entire business or just the WEEE element). Then, the business must either have a 15 million Euro bonded account or join an organisation like Weee Ireland. Thats another €600 to join and €600 per year. Then there is the addition to the software that they use. Without the software that is €2200.00 Just to be allowed to import or manufacture and sell electrical goods.

Dick Roche just wanted to be a good boy in Europe. He didnt give a Sh*t about the people in Ireland, be they consumers or businesses. He should have waited until January 2006 and had an information campaign to make everyone informed.

Rant over

Paddyo

MorningStar

Plankmonkey wrote:

I'll have to admit a certain amount of ignorance on the subject. In light of the faacts "rip off" is a bit strong. IMO the whole thing is just very Irish I'd like to see how other countries handle it.

To be blunt it sounds like you have no idea other than there is a new charge! Why is this an Irish mistake? What makes it any differnt from any other government handling things?
The plastic bag tax was a great success so has the smoking ban. I don't much care for the current government but some people will complain no matter what. Governments all around the world mess up there is nothing Irish about it other than assuming they are always wrong without looking at facts that's Irish

MorningStar

Paddyo wrote:

Dick Roche just wanted to be a good boy in Europe. He didnt give a Sh*t about the people in Ireland, be they consumers or businesses. He should have waited until January 2006 and had an information campaign to make everyone informed.

Can you teach me this mind trick where you can tell somebodies reason for doing something? :rolleyes:
I don't think he should have waited any longer than he did.
You can ring and get the correct information at any point of confusion.
The extra chagre to imports and electrical manufactures is fine with me as they are encouraged to make things that are recyclable easier. The objective of the charge in the first place.

Plankmonkey

MorningStar wrote:

To be blunt it sounds like you have no idea other than there is a new charge!

Fair enough I admit I'm not an expert but that is not my fault that's the goverments fault for not presenting me with the information.

MorningStar wrote:

Why is this an Irish mistake? What makes it any differnt from any other government handling things?
The plastic bag tax was a great success so has the smoking ban. I don't much care for the current government but some people will complain no matter what. Governments all around the world mess up there is nothing Irish about it other than assuming they are always wrong without looking at facts that's Irish

I didn't say it was an irish mistake. The way in which it has been handled is very Irish and it is disrespectful to the Irish consumer to assume that they will just hand over money and not question it. It's not up to me to go and ring a number and ask questions, its up to the government to present the information to me before it is introduced so that i can ask my questions before hand and not have to argue with the cashier. If they did it like the smoking ban I'd be the first one congratulating them. I'm not bashing the government in general, I just don't think this charge has been introduced in a fair or correct manner and i don't think it is being implemented fairly. I'll give you an example, I bought an iron as a present for someone and paid €2. I do not have an old iron to bring back because my iron works just fine. Now why should I have to pay €2 if i have nothing to recycle? It's only €2 but so what its the principal of the thing and all those €2's here and there add up to a sizable amount of money in someones pocket.

Paddyo

Can you teach me this mind trick where you can tell somebodies reason for doing something?

No Trick involved - it is obviously my opinion based on my observations and understandings.

Maybe there is somewhere you can now call to get info - however it was only days before the 13th August when the EMC charges were decided and even then some new categories were added after this date. Tell me where to ring when there is no answer!! I called the revenue before the 13th of August to see what VAT rate should be applied against the EMC - they didnt know. It was not just the telephone operator - a query was raised the people who should know.

My point is that not many people knew of its existence prior to going to a shop and getting charged the additional amount. How are you supposed to find out about somthing if you are unaware of its existence? Hence an information campaign was needed!


I think you might suggesting that I have a problem with the EMC - I dont. I do have a problem with the unpreparadness of the Country for its introduction.

MorningStar

Paddyo wrote:

No Trick involved - it is obviously my opinion based on my observations and understandings.

You mean assumptions without any hard facts! :rolleyes: Go on tell me some things that shows a pattern of how Rocheh as done things just to keep people in the EU happy. Can you also tell me what he gets out of it too. I love conspiracy theories.

How any electrical supplier or retailer was unaware of this would be a shock to me. I work with retail systems and we knew about it. Every supplier knew so it was hard not to buy your goods and not know.

The only people who seem to be unprepared were the retailer and generally private business. Why people choose to blame the government for everything is odd. Baddly implemented is right but the implementation was up to the retailers. If they had actually complained about the detail they were given it may have been put off.
You end up with people like Monkey there who have no understanding of what is actually going on because the media get more sales via catering for this over hyped rip off Ireland which is not tue in half the cases

Plankmonkey

MorningStar wrote:

You end up with people like Monkey there who have no understanding of what is actually going on because the media get more sales via catering for this over hyped rip off Ireland which is not tue in half the cases

It's Plankmonkey, not monkey. What has the media got to do with anything I've said? I have voiced my opinion based on what has happened to me when buying an electrical item, not because the media tells me I'm being ripped off.

We'll have to agree to disagree I've said all i want to say.

MorningStar

Plankmonkey wrote:

I have voiced my opinion based on what has happened to me when buying an electrical item, not because the media tells me I'm being ripped off.

We'll have to agree to disagree I've said all i want to say.

Not really you didn't know what you were talking about so practiclly all you have said was just wrong not a point of opinion. There isn't really a polite way to say it.
The media may not have effected you directly but it certainly effected what other people think. The constant talk of Eddie Hobbes etc doesn't have to be heard directly for it to effect as you hear it throgh people. The Liveline show was unbelievablly biased and people quote it as fact.