Brum vs Pool

KdjaCL

Birmingham 2 - 1
(0 - 0) Liverpool L
S Warnock 72 o.g.
W Pandiani 75
S Luis Garcia 68


Bookings:
J Clapham 44
K Cunningham 67

Bookings:
F Sinama Pongolle 34
S Luis Garcia 65
S Warnock 71

few minutes left, anyone watching it?


kdjac

whiskeyman

2-2 - Cisse peno in 85th min.
Neil Kilkenny s/o for deliberate handball.

Roddy23

Cisse just scored, id think theyll nick all 3points.

mike65

Christ! Whats wrong with 4-4-2?

Mike.

Chardee MacDennis

considering he won la liga with 4-5-1 i think he should stick to it.

ianomccabe

anyone know who got sky's man of the match?

Chardee MacDennis

they dont do any post match show on Prem+
Stevie G would prob get it anyway...
not coz he played well but he always gets it if there is no clear winner..

fred funk }{

Bit of a strange game i have to say. The first half was boring as hell but the second was very entertaining. I think we should have won it as we were the better team. I dont blame Warnock for the OG as i felt he had to go for it as it was a dangerous cross.

I was very disappointed Josemi thought he had a terrible game and i would much rather Finnan in the RB position.

Reina wasn't very good at all today and im still to see his quality show but its early yet.

I was glad to see Riise come and i was glad Zenden go off as i thought he played crap.

I think we would have won if there was more time on the clock as we were pressing forward.

fred funk }{

ianomccabe wrote:

anyone know who got sky's man of the match?

SG did get it and there is an after match so on prem+.

ianomccabe

cheers fred

redspider

I didn’t see the full game, but by the highlights I’ve seen on RTE and the accounts I’ve read, Liverpool didn’t do much in this game to deserve much more than a point. So, another 2 pts below what Liverpool should be aiming for. I’m still not happy with Benitez’s selection and formation. It is just not attacking enough nor does it create the right type of chances. He just seems to be using the wrong type of players, so whilst he may have thought getting a player such as Crouch might be a good idea, most of us feared the worst and that has proven to be the case. The tplayers used was as follows:

Liverpool: Reina, Josemi, Carragher, Hyypia, Warnock, Sinama Pongolle (Luis Garcia 60), Alonso, Hamann (Riise 79), Gerrard, Zenden (Cisse 68), Crouch.
Subs Not Used: Finnan, Carson.

For me, Reina was at fault for both of the goals. He mis-judged the cross for before the ball was crossed again for the 1st goal. If he called for it, he certainly didnt make that clear with Warnock, and his reaction was poor. A Friedel may have saved that. The second one he spilled it. So, some of the dodgy situations he got into in previous games were definite signs and that has now come to roost and cost us dearly today.

The 4-2-3-1 formation is a formation that can be played at this level but it is very much dependent on the type of the 3 players and the 1 player and how they work together to create openings. The formation was like this:

Reina,
Josemi Carragher Hyypia,Warnock,
Alonso Hamann
Sinama Gerrard Zenden
Crouch

Crouch is not good enough imo, nor is Zenden. Pongolle at times can be light, and what with the lack of inventiveness from Alonso and Hamann, that left the whole game relying on Gerrard. Josemi is also weaker than Finnan, so again Benitez’s Spanish selections are costing Liverpool.

He tried to shake things up with Garcia coming on as a sub and the way that he drifts did create the opening. Notably Liverpool scored the 1st goal when Crouch was near the centre circle! Overall for me, the Liverpool squad is lacking a finisher, what with Baros gone and Morientes not up to par, even if he was fit. Not only that, many of the positions are just not being filled with players of sufficient quality, and these are players that Benitez bought in. Reina hasn’t added to the squad.


In terms of the league battle though, Liverpool aren’t the only team with problems. The two main challengers to Chelsea are also having major problems. Arsenal are much weaker without Henry. Man U have midfield problems - any team that plays Alan Smith in midfield is showing some signs of insanity, nearly as bad as playing Cisse as a winger!

Some people last week were saying that the league race is over. Well, I think it is, judging by whats on display so far. Chelsea will win it, the money will win it, the dirty ill-gotten Abramovich money (research if you don’t know) which has completely distorted the league in terms of resources available. Even though the clubs have played differing amounts of games (eg: Liverpool 5, Chelsea 7), the ladder version of the table is very ominous (see attached). Btw, a good win for Hearts over Rangers. Scotland will perhaps be of more interest to watch this year than the English league in terms of a title race.

redspider

mike65

Yikes! That method of viewing the table is too scary to look at!

Mike.

Rollo Tamasi

Call_me_al wrote:

considering he won la liga with 4-5-1 i think he should stick to it.

Yeah but La Liga and the Premierleague are totally different leagues. I'm sure that while he was in Spain he probably had flip hot wing players who could faciliate playing a 4-5-1 but now at Liverpool he doesn't really have any true width besides from Zenden & Garcia and he doesn't really play either as out and out wingers. Garcia plays a lot behind the front player(s) and Zenden, well he might as well be the Dutch Kevin Kilbane! Enough said.

The lads on the Premierleague (RTE2) today where talking alot about teams playing 4-5-1 in the league this season. Giles was saying that beacuse everyone saw Chelsea dominatating with this formation that they (Liverpool & UTD) have attempted to re-create it for themselves. However as he correctly pointed out, Chelsea have Cole,Duff,Robben,SW Phillips who where all moulded specifically for that position while Liverpool and Utd need to play players out of postion (Ronney & Cisse) just to accomadate that formation. Therefore not getting the best out of either.

I still think Liverpool should play 4-4-2, with two proper strickers, and two wide midfielders. Enough of this 4-5-1 stuff!

Davei141

redspider wrote:

so whilst he may have thought getting a player such as Crouch might be a good idea, most of us feared the worst and that has proven to be the case.
Crouch is not good enough imo.

Crouch was one of the best players on the pitch today, and has been superb in every premiership match hes been in for us. We have a player who is a great aerial threat, brings players in to play, creates oppurtunities and what happens? Zenden is played, in the place of a guy who actually creates width and crosses. Josemi who is effectively the only player on the right of the pitch is also played, and never gets forward. And baros when played on his own was no good, and thats No criticism of him at all. It was the system that ruined baros at liverpool, it was the system that ruined heskey, hell it was even the system that ruined diouf. And the system we are playing will ruin cisse, crouch and morientes aswell. Crouch and cisse pose so much threat to a team its insane not to take the option when available. But instead cisse is on the right(Whenever he gets a game) and crouch has to come deep to link up with the team because caution is the approach taken. Gerrard gets forward and when he does its great, but we are hoofing the ball up because we have no width to create the space for slick forward passing. Its a vicious circle.

Necronomicon

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

Yeah but La Liga and the Premierleague are totally different leagues. I'm sure that while he was in Spain he probably had flip hot wing players who could faciliate playing a 4-5-1 but now at Liverpool he doesn't really have any true width besides from Zenden & Garcia and he doesn't really play either as out and out wingers. Garcia plays a lot behind the front player(s) and Zenden, well he might as well be the Dutch Kevin Kilbane! Enough said.

The lads on the Premierleague (RTE2) today where talking alot about teams playing 4-5-1 in the league this season. Giles was saying that beacuse everyone saw Chelsea dominatating with this formation that they (Liverpool & UTD) have attempted to re-create it for themselves. However as he correctly pointed out, Chelsea have Cole,Duff,Robben,SW Phillips who where all moulded specifically for that position while Liverpool and Utd need to play players out of postion (Ronney & Cisse) just to accomadate that formation. Therefore not getting the best out of either.

I still think Liverpool should play 4-4-2, with two proper strickers, and two wide midfielders. Enough of this 4-5-1 stuff!

Might be drifting off-topic slightly, but just on the 'Premiership is going to hell' debate, there were 3 televised games yesterday, Brum vs 'Pool, United vs Blackburn and Bolton vs Portsmouth..I thought they were all very good, open games. Well, admittedly I only caught the the end of the Birmingham game but it had a pretty exciting conclusion.

ianomccabe

have to say i thought crouch was one of Liverpool's better players yesterday.

He allows Liverpool to get a grip of away games by keeping the ball and bringing others into play, something which we really lacked last year.

el rabitos

on one hand its good that we're picking up points where we lost them last year ie. boro and birmigham. but its not the kind of progress needed to challenge this chelsea team.

on the plus side i think liverpool look alot stronger than man utd and arsenal, just seem more sure of how to play and have a better grasp tactics.

PHB

on the plus side i think liverpool look alot stronger than man utd and arsenal,

Liverpool-:Goals Scored: 3 Goals Concedded: 2 Points: 7
Arsenal--:Goals Scored: 9 Goals Concedded: 4 Points: 10
Man Utd-:Goals Scored: 7 Goals Concedded: 3 Points: 11

Hmm, interesting.
They might be sure how to play and have a grasp of tactic, but they don't score too much.
And considering most people would consider Man Utd and Arsenal playing much below their potential and having bad results, I'd really like to see your logic behind this.

redspider

Davei141 wrote:

Crouch was one of the best players on the pitch today, and has been superb in every premiership match hes been in for us. We have a player who is a great aerial threat, brings players in to play, creates oppurtunities and what happens? Zenden is played, in the place of a guy who actually creates width and crosses. Josemi who is effectively the only player on the right of the pitch is also played, and never gets forward. And baros when played on his own was no good, and thats No criticism of him at all. It was the system that ruined baros at liverpool, it was the system that ruined heskey, hell it was even the system that ruined diouf. And the system we are playing will ruin cisse, crouch and morientes aswell. Crouch and cisse pose so much threat to a team its insane not to take the option when available. But instead cisse is on the right(Whenever he gets a game) and crouch has to come deep to link up with the team because caution is the approach taken. Gerrard gets forward and when he does its great, but we are hoofing the ball up because we have no width to create the space for slick forward passing. Its a vicious circle.

I agree with most of what you said here but not on Croch.

Crouch was having difficulty linking up any play with the midfielders. Maybe its more the fault of Zenden and Sinama yesterday than Crouch, per se, but if he was better, he would be doing a better job. I think he needs someone else to play with him, in a 4-4-2 formation. I wouldnt rate him as being superb though. I mean, how many chances is he able to create? How many strikes is he having on goal? Crouch is at the end of the day a very ordinary player, and Liverpool have too many of those in the 1st team right now.

I fully agree with your comments on Zenden and Josemi. Riise was missed yesterday. Cisse should not play as a winger.

I agree that the current system opted for by Benitez is not matching the players that he has available. Yet, he persists. This will result in draws like yesterday.

The only good thing I heard about yesterday was that Gerrard was pissed off with the result, and rightly so. He knows that at this rate Liverpool will be scrapping for 4th yet again. And he is dissapointed that progress is not being made, as Liverpool will not challenge for 1st place.

This situation is what I and many others had predicted/expected would happen after the signings/transfers in the off-season. Not enough quality brought in I'm afraid ... yet another year of "transition" beckons for Liverpool.

redspider

ps: the blue half of Merseyside is in dire straights though ....

Lemlin

Liverpool-:Goals Scored: 3 Goals Concedded: 2 Points: 7
Arsenal--:Goals Scored: 9 Goals Concedded: 4 Points: 10
Man Utd-:Goals Scored: 7 Goals Concedded: 3 Points: 11

Even more interesting when you add in:

Chelsea-:Goals Scored: 14 Goals Conceded: 1 Points: 21

el rabitos

Hmm, interesting.
They might be sure how to play and have a grasp of tactic, but they don't score too much.
And considering most people would consider Man Utd and Arsenal playing much below their potential and having bad results, I'd really like to see your logic behind this.

put it this way, if liverpool lost gerrard...they could still win and perform in the same manner that they play now. might be less potent in front of goal and lack the spirit and drive he offers, but they'd still be solid.

when united lose keane, they're like another team all together. they're the same top team going forward, but when any kind of pressure is put on them, its all over.

arsenal without henry and viera, nothing going on for them to be honest. they wont beat any of the teams they have to beat to win the league.

as for liverpools lack of goals, the goals will come eventually, scored 2 yesterday. as long as they chances are being created the goals will flow eventually

segadreamcast

PHB wrote:

Liverpool-:Goals Scored: 3 Goals Concedded: 2 Points: 7
Arsenal--:Goals Scored: 9 Goals Concedded: 4 Points: 10
Man Utd-:Goals Scored: 7 Goals Concedded: 3 Points: 11

Hmm, interesting.
They might be sure how to play and have a grasp of tactic, but they don't score too much.
And considering most people would consider Man Utd and Arsenal playing much below their potential and having bad results, I'd really like to see your logic behind this.

Why don't you add the champions league goals? Might give a fairer representation of what's going on this season.

Lemlin

as for liverpools lack of goals, the goals will come eventually, scored 2 yesterday. as long as they chances are being created the goals will flow eventually

Yes, wasn't it great that they scored two. Pity they let in two though. Not much use scoring two only to concede two in all fairness.

Necronomicon

NoelRock wrote:

Why don't you add the champions league goals? Might give a fairer representation of what's going on this season.

Because Liverpool were the only team who had to play in the first two qualification rounds. Besides, goals scored in those rounds don't count in the overall season tally.

el rabitos

we were talking about the lack of goals for, not against. i dont think the goals conceded where from any great tactical prowess by birmingham anyway

Necronomicon

el rabitos wrote:

we were talking about the lack of goals for, not against. i dont think the goals conceded where from any great tactical prowess by birmingham anyway

They most certainly weren't, but goals are goals and I'd be worried about having another suspect 'keeper if I was a Liverpool fan.

Lemlin

we were talking about the lack of goals for, not against. i dont think the goals conceded where from any great tactical prowess by birmingham anyway

That's of even more concern if you ask me. If Birmingham can knock two past Liverpool with little or no "tactical prowess", as you put it, what will Arsenal or Chelsea do to them?

el rabitos

That's of even more concern if you ask me. If Birmingham can knock two past Liverpool with little or no "tactical prowess", as you put it, what will Arsenal or Chelsea do to them?

what they wont do is find it easy to break down the defence from set pieces and forward attacks...not too easily anyway.

the mistakes in the game were stupid mistakes. but that happens in the odd few games during a season to all clubs. it could happen against chelsea or arsenal, of course. but it might not, last season liverpool and chelsea matches were very tight and only 1 goal seperated them in the majority of games.

i'm usually the first to point out the bad points of liverpool, but i just see them as being a more solid side this year than maybe united and arsenal. particularly when it comes to losing key players

jesus_thats_gre

Lemlin wrote:

That's of even more concern if you ask me. If Birmingham can knock two past Liverpool with little or no "tactical prowess", as you put it, what will Arsenal or Chelsea do to them?

You can't really plan for a stupid OG or an error by a keeper now can you?

As to what Arsenal and Chelsea may do to them. I would go back to the United match last weekend and subsequently not be overly worried..

Liverpool's problem is a lag of goals. There defence has been rock solid so far this season..

PHB

If you think that United without Keano or Arsenal without Vieira are worse than Liverpool without Gerrard you are sorely underestimating Gerrard.

el rabitos

i dunno man, i reckon if u checked the stats you'd find pool did well without gerrard in the team over last season and so far this season