I object to today's Republican march.

robinph

Todays Irish Independent:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1474959&issue_id=13047

oscarBravo

I didn't see the march, but I did suffer through some of the gridlock it caused. I also saw youngsters in war-of-independence-era uniforms handing out leaflets on Henry street - I wasn't impressed by the militaristic connotations.

On a vaguely related note, there seemed to be an earlier protest outside the GPO - I gather it was Republican Sinn Féin giving out about PSNI members (the "colonial police") being allowed to play our sacred sports. Irish unity, is it?

Trotter

I normally keep my distance on such discussions because I dont like SFs ideas and their supporters' tendecies to label anyone who disagrees as a disgrace etc.

I just had a look at the tshirts on the SF website mentioned earlier in the thread.. and I saw one underneath with ;

IRA - Undefeated Army (complete with pictures of balaclava wearing thugs).
THIS is the bile that seaps out between the cracks of legitimacy that SF is searching for.

I nearly got sick.

agfa

In my own opinion as a republican, this march/rally or whatever was merely a provisional show of strength and an attempt to suppress any disquiet about decommissioning which i was surprised wasnt announced on saturday to coincide with the rally but there you go.

Sadly for non provisional republicans like myself we have no political alternative to these people,and elitism as well as pure utter rhetoric and inactivity from rsf will leave republicanism in the doldrums for many years to come which the element of irish society who disagree and openly hate the thought of an united ireland will welcome unreservedly.

p.s completely off topic and nothing to do with politics i know,but i have to say it was a great victory for tyrone today as well as for the sport and it's a credit to all sets of supporters and the organisers who have made this day more enjoyable than expected.

mike65

This thread is famous. In a small way.

Mike.

TomF

Well, we're living in a democracy, and the people in the march, most of them probably from socially-deprived areas and universities, had a perfect right to get out there on the streets and proclaim their support for their cause. It reminds me in a way of auld Trimble saying the Orangemen had a right to march on the Queen's highway. The contrast in reaction to the single parade in Dublin and the numberless Orange parades in Ulster (not just Northern Ireland) that happen throughout the good weather months really depresses me.

Is it a lack of articulate spokesmen and women for tolerance that lets Orange bigots strut and parade and Unionist thugs riot, with very little island-wide, UK and worldwide condemnation?

Mighty_Mouse

I was galled enough at the nerve of the parasitic, opportunistic choosing of the slogan "make partition history"

It's a catchy well-know slogan. But asik the poverty campaign supporters (or organisers - not sure ) have objected and as far as I know SF apologised. I don't see the big deal

But my main objection to this was that I'd rather not have IRA marches down my city's main streets

You didn't. You had a republican march. (aside from the fact the IRA no longer exists and therefore couldn't possibly be an IRA match )

There were plenty of children there too. Some were chanting "Tiocfaidh Ar Lá" in time, though there was plenty of mis-pronounciation, suggesting they were unfamiliar with the words, and possibly their meaning

God help the children!! But it's these children's lack of fluency in Irish that galls you!!

Just in front of these children was a fat fellow with a loudspeaker and a gaggle of other middle aged men and women.

I'm sure republicans will clear out any overweight, over 35, menances from the next march.

Among the charming ditties this crowd belted out were "If you hate the British Army clap your hands", and "Kill, Kill, Kill the RUC".

In your estimation; about how many people were in this crowd? Or was it every marcher chanting in unison; as could be implied from above. Don't get me wrong though. Most nationalist's have reasons to dislike the British Army and RUC. IMO I don't think these type of "ditties" matter a bit.

I was standing there looking on with mild disgust (I was tired and these guys were holding up public transport),

so your against all protest which holds up traffic I take it?

"Free All Republican Prisoners Now", but one James Monaghan.

Him being a republican and in support of Irish unity. You were stunned to see him? Personally, I would of expected it.

Personally, this has nothing to with politics......................But frankly, watching this grotesque carnival of suits and their entourage of brainwashed children, shaven headed beer-bellied "stewards", gangsters and smuggler-thugs saddened me

So your just an embittered little person who dislikes children mis-pronouncing Gaeilge, fat people and middle-age'ness'. Most people would protest at the march because they completely disagree with republicanism which is a political stance. You just hate the sight of the people. At least your honest about your un-political hatred these "types" of mostly working class people. For no reason other than the look of them!!!!!! :rolleyes:

There were plenty of foreign people out watching, British among them of course, and I'd liked to have asked some of them what they thought.

foreign people = delighted to be exposed to traditional elements of Irish culture and be educated on the history of the country. Just as I would be if I stumbled on a Basque/Muslim/South African/Cuban etc etc etc march in their respective countries. Irrespective of whether I agreed with them or not.
british people = I'm sure they would have a slight understanding on what has happened between our 2 countries for the last 800 years. I'm sure they said "oh look at those people we already know everything about"

I've harboured plans to emigrate for some time now for many key personal reasons. Today I felt I gained another.

your contribution to Irish society, debate surrounding a united ireland and of course your support of the Irish landguage will be sorely missed. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(I've a funny feeling your not going anywhere!)

The sooner republican fantasists realise the real consequences of reunification the better. The North cannot rejoin the Republic. It is not workable presently

I agree. reunification is not workable presently

I don't want to get too off-topic on this. What I really want from this thread is some input from people in general about what they thought about this march.

eh!! The walking was quite good. It was very marchy!!! How the hell can you talk about a make partition history march without having to refer to unification?

Do people want slogans such as those already mentioned being chanted openly in their streets?

I've heard worse. Give us a little more info on how widespread this was pls.

Both SF and the IRA signed up to the GFA. They accept partition as long as the majority want it.

doesn't cancel their right to campaign for reunification.

What I can't stand about SF/IRA is that instead of mending fences with the unionists - they engage in "Make Partition History" rally

What your asking for IMO is cultural unity. This will never happen IMO, Unionists need to accept republicans right to campaign for unification as much as republicans need to accept unionists right to campaign for partition. One these campaigns are conducted in an acceptable manner then there shouldn’t be a problem.

The ebb tide is turning on SF in the republic

Not according to the electorate.

hopefully they'll be shown the door at the next election

not gonna happen mate

most distasteful is the fact that young children are being indoctorated into the poisoned and smallminded mindset of this form of Republicanism

children republicans, children unionists. lets ban religion and politics. That'll solve it.

I was actually so surprised by this march taking place on the streets of Dublin. This wasn't South Armagh, or the Falls Road

Not the first republican event in Dublin since 1916 man! Where have you been living? Why would it not be equally as likely to have a united Ireland march in Dublin as in Belfast?

I look forward to the next election. I don't believe SF will achieve much.

I would bet my house that SF will continue to grow.

The contrast in reaction to the single parade in Dublin and the numberless Orange parades in Ulster

yesterday's march wouldn't of been driven thru unionist areas beating drums

Baz_

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

lets ban religion

Now theres a good idea

oscarBravo

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

Most nationalist's have reasons to dislike the British Army and RUC. IMO I don't think these type of "ditties" matter a bit.

Can I take it that you'd apply the same logic to Loyalist marchers, and their charming ditties?

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

So your just an embittered little person who dislikes children mis-pronouncing Gaeilge...

Mispronouncing what now?

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

foreign people = delighted to be exposed to traditional elements of Irish culture...

Speaking for myself, I don't consider the "brits out" sentiment to be part of our traditional culture.

Mighty_Mouse

Can I take it that you'd apply the same logic to Loyalist marchers, and their charming ditties?

I've no problem with anything loyalist's do as long as it's non-violent and practiced in areas other than their own with consent.

Speaking for myself, I don't consider the "brits out" sentiment to be part of our traditional culture.

ok, exposed to "an" element

LordSutch

billy the squid wrote:

Being a member of the United kingdom isnt fatal, if it was there would not be fifty million people living there.

Sorry to be pedantic Billy but there are in fact 'Sixty Million' people living in the UK, Two million of which reside in the North!

oscarBravo

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

I've no problem with anything loyalist's do as long as it's non-violent and practiced in areas other than their own with consent.

"Their own" areas?

I'm always amused by the willingness of those who seek to end partition to create arbitrary partitions within NI.

murphaph

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

I've no problem with anything loyalist's do as long as it's non-violent and practiced in areas other than their own with consent.

Nobody asked me for my consent (or opinion) for this republican march in my city. Surely the same standards should apply, or do you think everyone in the 26 counties is a de facto republican? Gerry Adams & Co. should stay up in Belfast in their country where they belong and stop trying to poison my country with their hatred. Fcukers.

A Dub in Glasgo

You have to laugh at the hatred in this thread

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You have to laugh at the hatred in this thread

Yeah.

Why do people hate SF? I mean, it's been like a few years since they last shot a Garda, there's been no multi-million poound robbery yet this year, they haven't beaten someone to death for a good few months, and I bet they haven't blown up a child in like years. And that whole FARC thing was surely just part of an adult education scheme...

Hagar

murphaph wrote:

stop trying to poison my country with their hatred. Fcukers.

It's not your country.
It's OUR country.
You get one vote, same as me.
If you don't like it... Well what can I suggest...

Cork

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

doesn't cancel their right to campaign for reunification.

They agree to patition (as long as the majority want it) & then campaign aganist it.

Spin Fein need to start respecting the wishes of the majority especially in a divided society that is NI.


The presence of replica guns shows the ugly reality of these people. Talk about giving 2 fingers to the victims of IRA criminality.

bonkey

murphaph wrote:

Nobody asked me for my consent (or opinion) for this republican march in my city.

Your city? Hold the keys, do you?

If not, and you're not in one of a handful of particular jobs, then there's no reason why anyone should ask your consent or opinion regarding any march.

I fnid it somewhat ioronic that the critics of republicanism generally seem to feel put out by these people exercising their democratic rights in a peaceful manner. Would a riot, or some good ol' killings or beatings have been somehow more acceptable to you guys?

jc

whippet

I didn't get to witness the 'march' and have only read about it in the papers.

SF/IRA have now proven to a mass market what a bunch of tactless thugs they really are. To have children paraded with replica guns, dressed as illegal paramilitaries (which SF always maintained they had nothing to do with), and chanting hatred, while all along calling for peace.

On the premise of local 'we'll get it sorted Ms. Doyle' politics SF have managed to gain some extra seats, however the spectacle that happened in dublin over the weekend will have some of these 'new' SF voters thinking twice.

Maybe Paisley was right all along not to have anything to do with SF/IRA, give them an inch they want everything. How can anyone have faith in politicians who are involved in the type of crimes that SF are involved in. Baseball bats and semtex in the boot of cars with election posters, northern banks notes piled high in wheelie bins, failure to report murders that took place in there company, training of colombian murderers in their skills (and this is not mentioning the crimes of the paramilitaries)

Personally I am sick of these thugs and their supporters, who immediatly berate anyone who may think differently to them, like our friend Linux earlier, and use SF/IRA's bully tactics to slant arguments.

On another note, I have even stopped supporting Celtic football club to disassociate myself from the sectarian biggots who use the club to exercise their disgusting brand of malious.

As SF/IRA are now 'de-commissioning' some rusty auld armalites and soggy semtex, will we see the IRA-Reloaded forming with some new wepons and SF/IRA with another foot in the door of democracy based on the 'disbandment' of the IRA.

I may sound cynical, but it is their actions that have made me cynical and therefore up to them to prove me wrong, Kids in murderer's guise with replica guns will not help my cynicism.

bonkey

Cork wrote:

They agree to patition (as long as the majority want it) & then campaign aganist it.

And? Isn't that exactly what the basis of democracy is? Abiding by the majority decision even when its one that you don't yourself share?

Its a sad day when the criticism of "the bad guys" is that they uphold the ideals of a peaceful democratic system.

Spin Fein need to start respecting the wishes of the majority especially in a divided society that is NI.

You mean like accepting partition while the majority want it? They'd never do something as low and dirty as.....oh, no....wait....a moment ago you were criticising them for doing just that. Now you're claiming that just that is exactly what they need to do.

Seems to me you've let your want to criticise SF get in the way of the actual criticism.

The presence of replica guns shows the ugly reality of these people. Talk about giving 2 fingers to the victims of IRA criminality.

If the replicas were illegal, then the people holding them should have been arrested. If the replicas were not illegal, then what, exactly, is your problem?

I really don't get arguments like this. What is it you'd like to do Cork? Hound all Republicans until they conclude that playing by the rules is a mugs game because people like you will simply criticise them no matter what?

Or do you really believe that others should just put decades of history behind them and radically change their way of dealing with this issue, when you are clearly demonstrating that you're either incapable or unwilling to do anything of the sort yourself.


jc

Altheus

It's clear to the unbiased reader that the OP wrote his version of events with a very anti-Republican slant.

When another user accuses this poster of lieing, (perhaps due to his bias), citing lack of evidence to support it, instead of the moderators balancing the issue they become sarcastic and then begin to show their anti-Republican bias.

Moderation is about providing a balance, not pushing your own agendas.

Why is the issue getting personalised? Because the moderators are failing to retain any subjectivity or control over the thread.

It's about debate, not about running people with contraversial opinions, and poor grammar/sources away.

My addition to the thread:

People are more consumed with their routine and grind to care for the marches anyway. The majority of people I know who have opinion's on the united Ireland issue (on both sides) seem to hold an extrememist viewpoint. i.e. Republicans are terrorists / British are on Irish soil.

It's clear that most of those who disagree with the march are nitpickin', and are anti-Republican.

It's clear that most of those in support of the march are Republicans.

Then there's those who are just pissed off with the traffic jams.

So now, once thats clear, how about you state your disposition in regard to Republicanism, and state an opinion or be constructive to the discussion as opposed to the tripe I've read over the last 20 minutes.

A Dub in Glasgo

whippet wrote:

I didn't get to witness the 'march' and have only read about it in the papers.

SF/IRA have now proven to a mass market what a bunch of tactless thugs they really are. To have children paraded with replica guns, dressed as illegal paramilitaries (which SF always maintained they had nothing to do with), and chanting hatred, while all along calling for peace.

Where these the period costumes to remember Irelands War For Independence?

On the premise of local 'we'll get it sorted Ms. Doyle' politics SF have managed to gain some extra seats, however the spectacle that happened in dublin over the weekend will have some of these 'new' SF voters thinking twice.

So what exactly happened?

Maybe Paisley was right all along not to have anything to do with SF/IRA, give them an inch they want everything. How can anyone have faith in politicians who are involved in the type of crimes that SF are involved in. Baseball bats and semtex in the boot of cars with election posters, northern banks notes piled high in wheelie bins, failure to report murders that took place in there company, training of colombian murderers in their skills (and this is not mentioning the crimes of the paramilitaries)

wow, that legal political party must be made illegal on the basis of the overwhelming evidence as shown above. Remind me again, what was the evidence?

On another note, I have even stopped supporting Celtic football club to disassociate myself from the sectarian biggots who use the club to exercise their disgusting brand of malious.

Did you support the football team? or do you support a team based on your perceptions of some of the other people who support that team?

As SF/IRA are now 'de-commissioning' some rusty auld armalites and soggy semtex, will we see the IRA-Reloaded forming with some new wepons and SF/IRA with another foot in the door of democracy based on the 'disbandment' of the IRA.

Eh? You witnessed the decommissioning? Are you a member of the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning?

Altheus

Altheus wrote:

It's clear to the unbiased reader that the OP wrote his version of events with a very anti-Republican slant.

Anti Sinn Féin slantor anti IRA slant.Don't forget the majority of republicans on this island don't support SF and never supported the IRA campaign.
By majority I mean the FF supporters, theres very few unionists among them and probably most of them do want a united Ireland.

When another user accuses this poster of lieing, (perhaps due to his bias), citing lack of evidence to support it, instead of the moderators balancing the issue they become sarcastic and then begin to show their anti-Republican bias.

He was accusing 3 or 4 posters actually of lying all of whom were witnesses to the march.

Moderation is about providing a balance, not pushing your own agendas.

Aye and when since we have banned as many anti SF/IRA posters as we have here on this board and since we get accused of bias from both sides-I'll take your assertion as baseless.

Why is the issue getting personalised? Because the moderators are failing to retain any subjectivity or control over the thread.

Clearly you are reading a different thread here to me.However if you want to take this matter further -Go to the feedback board.

It's about debate, not about running people with contraversial opinions, and poor grammar/sources away.

Which is what we try to foster on this board-An objective linux, the only one banned here for actions on this thread seems to have missed.

Now while I'm here...

Mighty_mouse

So your just an embittered little person who dislikes children mis-pronouncing Gaeilge, fat people and middle-age'ness'. Most people would protest at the march because they completely disagree with republicanism which is a political stance. You just hate the sight of the people. At least your honest about your un-political hatred these "types" of mostly working class people. For no reason other than the look of them!!!!!!

The bit in bold above is unacceptable.You mustn't be reading all of this thread either as I've already asked people to tone down their language.
If I see anyone coming out with that tone again-There will be bannings.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Why do people hate SF? I mean, it's been like a few years since they last shot a Garda, there's been no multi-million poound robbery yet this year, they haven't beaten someone to death for a good few months, and I bet they haven't blown up a child in like years. And that whole FARC thing was surely just part of an adult education scheme...

good post

bonkey wrote:

I fnid it somewhat ioronic that the critics of republicanism generally seem to feel put out by these people exercising their democratic rights in a peaceful manner.

You should really read the post he was replying to before jumping to conclusions.

I think the point the posters were making that is rather hypocritical for the Republic movement to demand that Unionist/Loyists get concent for marches in Catholic areas of Belfast, but don't bat an eyelid when people object to Republicans holding a rather offensive march in Dublin (it was a pretty blatant march in support of terrorism, if it was a bunch of muslim extremists you can bet there would be a lot more posts on Boards.ie this morning)

Like it or not, a lot of people (myself include, and yes I also heard the Kill the RUC chants) found this march offensive. Do the SF supports on this thread care? No, probably not. Have a democratic right to protest to march down the street saying anything they like? Of course. And personaly I don't care if they want to march. I found the whole thing rather silly and sad, but hey I find most marches silly and sad, especially the Orange Order/SF style marches (drummers/combat gear/black scarfs ... grow up)

But supporters saying that Unionists need to get consent to march in Belfast is a bit rich TBH.

Tomohawk

Have the individuals who marched on saturday no sense of shame about the past? Have they no sense of forgiveness? what about guilt?

(and whats with the fancy dress, its not even holloween yet )

I would advise curious people who want to learn more about such parades to study the early rise of the national socialists in germany from 1920 onwards to 1933 for some insights into the nature of the relationship between paramilitary groupings and political parties.

I personally have moved on from supporting 20th century political belief systems, like that displayed on saturday by Sein Fein. But then again I'm nearly 40 and know that life is more complicated that this...

murphaph

Wicknight wrote:

You should really read the post he was replying to before jumping to conclusions.

I think the point the posters were making that is rather hypocritical for the Republic movement to demand that Unionist/Loyists get concent for marches in Catholic areas of Belfast, but don't bat an eyelid when people object to Republicans holding a rather offensive march in Dublin (it was a pretty blatant march in support of terrorism, if it was a bunch of muslim extremists you can bet there would be a lot more posts on Boards.ie this morning)

Like it or not, a lot of people (myself include, and yes I also heard the Kill the RUC chants) found this march offensive. Do the SF supports on this thread care? No, probably not. Have a democratic right to protest to march down the street saying anything they like? Of course. And personaly I don't care if they want to march. I found the whole thing rather silly and sad, but hey I find most marches silly and sad, especially the Orange Order/SF style marches (drummers/combat gear/black scarfs ... grow up)

But supporters saying that Unionists need to get consent to march in Belfast is a bit rich TBH.

Thanks Wicknight, it was exactly this hypocrisy that I was highlighting. I wasn't seriously expecting someone to come round to my house and ask my permission for a march down O'Connell street, yet this is exactly what republicans expect in Belfast yet go nuts when people from Dublin complain about one of their marches here!

A Dub in Glasgo

Some would argue that having a march to celebrate Irelands independence is a pretty blatant march in support of terrorism.

Are people objecting to any march in Dublin city centre, any commemoration of Irelands history or do they just not like that the Shinners have a viewpoint?

flamin moe

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Some would argue that having a march to celebrate Irelands independence is a pretty blatant march in support of terrorism.

was the march not to celebrate the sf/ira 'alledged' 100 years?

Mighty_Mouse

I'm always amused by the willingness of those who seek to end partition to create arbitrary partitions within NI.

Not really!! It would take a crazy person not to recognise that the orangeorder marching through west belfast is NOT an option at the moment. Again it's the principle of consent. Personally I could agree to the orangeorder marching down o'connell street if the circumstances waranted it.

Maybe some day 50years in the future it will be completely acceptable for unionists to march down dublin city centre, west belfast and garvaghy road celebrating their culture whilst republicans do the same to commerate the easter rising and paddy's day in current unionist strongholds.

Nobody asked me for my consent (or opinion) for this republican march in my city.

YOUR city!!!! Really!! Yesterday after waiting 2 hours to get through the toll gate, my car was clamped as I watched the match in Croke park, afterwards my whole family was attacked with syringes by 15 serial offenders on day release, I then waited for the last 24 hours to get inside the door of a hospital whilst my youngest died from superbug. I eventually manged to find food paying €5euro for a roll in a local centra. After such a disaster, I turned to drink. I'm now broke because had to pay €5 for every pint I drank.
I'm liking you less and less!!!! The city you run is cat!!

They agree to patition (as long as the majority want it) & then campaign aganist it.

You even put in brackets what you should factor into consideration!!

On another note, I have even stopped supporting Celtic football club to disassociate myself from the sectarian biggots who use the club to exercise their disgusting brand of malious.

Show's what little backbone you must have and I couldn't even name Celtic's starting 11!!

.....................................I'm no longer Irish. I just can't call myself an Irishman anymore after those french tourists were attacked in clare, that man in the midlands was killed etc etc etc I want to disassociate myself!

bonkey

murphaph wrote:

Thanks Wicknight, it was exactly this hypocrisy that I was highlighting.

What hypocracy???

Lets take a look at it....

I wasn't seriously expecting someone to come round to my house and ask my permission for a march down O'Connell street, yet this is exactly what republicans expect in Belfast

Is it?

Can you show me one single instance where the republican objection to a march in Belfast was that it went down the main street of the city?

The main and recurring objections in the North have been about the nature of the marches, as well as the particular routes chosen which deliberately take the march through staunchly Republican areas. The complaints carry weight because regardless of who is to blame this choice of route has recurringly led to violence.

A hypocritical comparison would be saying there's no problem with some group in Dublin deciding to march through your particular residential area, ideally where such group and the residents of your area have some form of ideological difference which all-too-often escalates into violence when you're let near each other.

That is not anything like what happened in Dublin.

You should really read the post he was replying to before jumping to conclusions.

You shouldn't assume I haven't read the entire thread, nor should you assume the use of a plural in my reference to critics was anything but deliberate.

At the end of the day you're perfectly entitled to find the march offensive. I've no problem with people deciding that something is offensive. Its the accompanying suggestion / implication that it shouldn't have been allowed, or that it was wrong to be held which I take objection to. You obviously don't fall into this category, but rather the type who finds the march silly, sad, something you don't care about, and still offensive.

But supporters saying that Unionists need to get consent to march in Belfast is a bit rich TBH.

"In Belfast", or "through strongly republican areas in Belfast for no reason except the celebration of the historical subjugation of the residents" ???

The marches in Belfast have enough of a violent track-record that they should indeed require permission, consideration, etc. There is no comparable track-record for Sinn Fein marches in Dublin.

I find comparing the two a bit rich, myself, but I guess its just a matter of perspective.

jc

Aside: I wonder if I'm still being classed as anti-Republican now that I'm now longer a moderator