IRA Decommissioning

zepp

The IRA look like they are going to decommission. Is it a PR stunt or the real deal. Will everything be got rid of and all activity stoped. what do ye think

A Dub in Glasgo

Real deal

miju

its happened IRA HAS OFFICIALLY DECOMMISHIONED see http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0925/northpolitics.html its a very good day for Northern Ireland

aidan_walsh

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4281104.stm

A report confirming that IRA decommissioning has been completed is to be given to the British and Irish governments on Monday.

General John de Chastelain, head of the body overseeing the disarmament, is then expected to give a news conference with the two independent witnesses.

The churchmen who witnessed the process were Catholic priest Father Alex Reid and ex-Methodist president Harold Good.

The IRA announced an end to its armed campaign in July.

The republican organisation said it would follow a democratic path ending more than 30 years of violence.

Statements are also expected on Monday from the IRA, both governments and Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams.

Earlier on Sunday, Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain said any move on IRA decommissioning must be credible enough to convince unionists.

"I think the people of Northern Ireland will want to see it actually implemented," he said.

He said once unionists knew decommissioning was credible and had been put in place, moves could be made towards restoring devolved government in Northern Ireland.

General de Chastelain, Andrew Sens and Tauno Nieminen - the commissioners of the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning - have been in Ireland overseeing the latest round of decommissioning since the beginning of September.

BBC Northern Ireland security editor Brian Rowan said a meeting between the general and the IRA in July had started this latest process of decommissioning.

It'll be interesting to see the Unionist reaction to this. I have no doubt that Paisley will express doubts that will never be overcome.

miju

ALOT of pressure is gonna be put on the unionists now, IMHO this has really changed the political landscape up North

Cork

I think that since the NI bank raid and the killing of Robert McCartney. Both governments had a zero tolerance of leaving the provisional movement hang onto weapons.

Decommissioning while long over due - It is welcomed.

Criminality carried out by the Provsional movement is also to be ended. Good riddence.

I think democrats in this island deserve much credit - but I would like to signal out John Hume. He was just so ahead of his time and was never blinkered by a narrowly focused tribal mindset.

A Dub in Glasgo

_raptor_ wrote:

ALOT of pressure is gonna be put on the unionists now, IMHO this has really changed the political landscape up North

Well obviously there will be no stage managed propaganda photo oppurtunity for Paisley and their ilk to gloat over.

boidey

Isn't decommissioning a bit of an irrelevance now, the use of violence has brought them far enough that they don't need it anymore. There is no way they would ever go back to the "armed struggle" as they like to call it. Its not an option for them anymore.
If anything it allows them to portray themselves as champions of the greater nationalist cause in standing up to the unionist demands for decommisioning,
AFAIK the petrol stations are still trading and matches are still legal if they feel they have to make a point.

Cork

Events like the NI bank raid show that an end to criminality was needed.

Future IMC reports will be closely watched.

The big point is that people in NI have got to see that they have more in common that divides them.

30 years of needless violence highlight that confidence building measures like decommissioning are essential.

murphaph

The IRA won't give up criminality. SF need money. Corporate donors (corrupt favours though they may want) are the lifeblood of political parties and SF doesn't have too many. They are funded through proceedings of crime. Unless SF/IRA are absolutely sure they have watertight investments or that they can survive from the takings from the business empire (pubs, nightclubs, taxi firms etc.) they built up from criminal proceedings then there will always be a place for the IRA in SF's view (they are of course the same entity).

A Dub in Glasgo

Any evidence that Sinn Fein are funded through crime? It is very easy to go off on one and start accusing a legal political party, that you do not like, of being funded through crime.

Of course, you will come back and say 'Ach sure, everybody knows it.... it was in the Sunday Indo'

Verified links and sources not just articles of speculation?

Hagar

murphaph wrote:

The IRA won't give up criminality. SF need money. Corporate donors (corrupt favours though they may want) are the lifeblood of political parties and SF doesn't have too many. They are funded through proceedings of crime. Unless SF/IRA are absolutely sure they have watertight investments or that they can survive from the takings from the business empire (pubs, nightclubs, taxi firms etc.) they built up from criminal proceedings then there will always be a place for the IRA in SF's view (they are of course the same entity).

Whereas the Loyalists get their funds, weapons, etc etc from... let me guess.
I know, they all saved up the money the tooth fairy left them.

Hagar

Hagar wrote:

Whereas the Loyalists get their funds, weapons, etc etc from... let me guess.
I know, they all saved up the money the tooth fairy left them.

Do the loyalists stand for election down here?You'll find that 26 county voters couldn't care less where loyalists get their money as it has no tangible effect here.

I heard Rory Quinn on Today FM yesterday repeat the allegation that SF is funded by IRA crime.
If that was being said openly on the national airwaves about any other party-there would be law suits.

It should be very easy to show that SF is definitely not funded by paramilitary crime if they are not-so why do they leave the allegations out there when it obviously does harm.
Their vote is static in an environment when theres an appetite for change.
There are two big reasons for that amongst others (1) Their policies probably dont suit most of the electorate and (2) people are affected by the criminality accusations.


Getting back to the matter in hand: It's main implication is for unionism-their bogies are dropping like flies.Weapons in the Alqueda environment today were just not on-making todays overdue announcements inevitable.

Mighty_Mouse

Isn't decommissioning a bit of an irrelevance now,

always has been imo.

real deal. when have they not done as said previously?

miju

FFS lads, the IRA has just decommishioned it doesnt matter if its 2 years later than it should be it DOES matter that it's happened.

Regarding criminality there may be criminal elements in Sinn Fein and it will take them time to oust them but again theres criminal elements in other parties also.

Anyways, me being that why piss and moan about a GOOD thing that has happened as the troubles have more than anything shown progress takes time so at least give them a chance, fair enough alot of the times Sinn Fein / IRA are all mouth but this time they have followed through with their commitment so would it not stand to reason that Sinn Fein will try and clear any ACTIVE criminal elements out of Sinn Fein

Maskhadov

Thank god its happened... Hopefully it will be a new day for Ireland and a 32 county dublin rule country is on the way soon !!!:):)

miju

personally I'm not really bothered about whether Ireland is a 32 county republic I would just love to see the whole thing settled once and for all and its great to see such a massive step has now been taken towards a lasting solution

murphaph

I'll wait to hear what DeChastallain as to say at 14.00 before I crack open the shampoo.

Every illegal firearm removed from the hands of criminals is a good thing, that's a no-brainer. I just don't believe it's appropriate to be jumping around the place believing everything SF/IRA come out with.

They are of course funded by the proceedings of decades of IRA crime, invested wisely by the likes of Phil Flynn & Co. Does anyone here genuinely believe SF have never knowingly received funds from their paramilitary wing?

As Earthman says-it's common for other parties' members to publicly state this about SF and if it were untrue it would be easy enough to prove, but they don't disprove it, they don't sue these accusers. Odd behaviour from a legit party don't ya think?

They claim they spend a pittance (one quarter what the SDLP admit to spending) on electioneering in NI, yet they clearly have a much slicker campaign than the SDLP with a hell of a lot more billboards, posters and flyers. SF like to pretend this superior campaigning is all down to volunteers (pardon the pun) but you can't volunteer a fcukin billboard up on the wall-it has to be paid for. They are dodgy with a capital D.

A Dub in Glasgo

In other words, all you can offer up is speculation and the requirement for the other side to prove you wrong.... very good

Hagar

How do you prove you didn't do something?

If I accused you of theft you would not try to prove your innocence, you would say "show me proof of my crime".

The fact that Sinn Féin doesn't spend its life in court chasing libel actions does not make these accussations any less libelous.

And on that note may I draw attention to the boards charter regarding un-substantiated accusations against people or organizations.

BaZmO*

Cork wrote:

Events like the NI bank raid show that an end to criminality was needed.

I would say a bigger factor in the decommissioning would be the current international view on terrorism. There was way too much pressure for Sinn Fein to prove that they no longer have links to a military wing.

B.

biko

BaZmO* wrote:

I would say a bigger factor in the decommissioning would be the current international view on terrorism. There was way too much pressure for Sinn Fein to prove that they no longer have links to a military wing.

Ceasefire and decommission has been in the pipeline since well before September 2001. This is not something suddenly whipped up.

Your post remind me of an American I met in Empire Bar.
"The IRA is decommissioning because they are scared thay Bush will bring soldiers here", yeah right boyo

biko

murphaph wrote:

Does anyone here genuinely believe SF have never knowingly received funds from their paramilitary wing?

Well, that may be or not be. Still no evidence, tho. You'd think that with raids/buggings of SF offices and digging into the books there would be some trial going on rather that mudslinging, but I can only see mud flying...

BaZmO*

biko wrote:

Ceasefire and decommission has been in the pipeline since well before September 2001. This is not something suddenly whipped up.

My statement was just in response to another poster's comment.

biko wrote:

Your post remind me of an American I met in Empire Bar.
"The IRA is decommissioning because they are scared thay Bush will bring soldiers here", yeah right boyo

Ah c'mon, give me some credit!!

B.

murphaph

Ok, moving on because we all know this is going nowhere.

I have no faith in SF/IRA but I do believe that most of their weapons are gone because I do have faith in the IICD and the 2 clergymen who were present. The unionist politicians must now be wondering what to do. So long as the 'RA keep quiet and don't do anything bold they (the unionists) will come under tremendous pressure from London to sit down with SF.

I can't stand these unionists who will never accept that SF/IRA have changed their tactics (primarily because violence failed) and they just don't know what to do now. They are sh!tting themselves and everyone can see that.

Dempsey

This is a great day for ireland. The IRA have proven their commitment to the peace process. I hope the unionist believe what was said today. I hope the media focus on the loyalists and their feuding so they commit to peace by putting their weapons beyond use and sit down with SF. 32 county ireland can become a real possiblity then

biko

Watching BBC, Mr Paisley and co are not satisfied (what a shock ) and so the loyalist violence goes on, against their own and against the crown and police.
Hopefully the the people of NI will someday soon be rid of the sectarian trouble that is Ian Paisley and get more John Humes or David Fords in power, people who can respect protestants and catholics alikea dn don't just fan the flames for their own means.

dlofnep

Ian Paisley is a threat to peace in Northern Ireland. He must be removed at all costs.. the IRA decomission in front of the eyes of an independent board and he still has something to complain about.

But Reverend Ian Paisley, the Democratic Unionist Party, said there had been no transparent verification of IRA decommissioning in today's announcement.

He said today's announcement showed the "duplicity and dishonesty of the two governments and the IRA". He said there had been a "cunning cover-up" and no announcement of what had been decommissioned, as was required by Unionists.

Ian Paisley is the lowest of the low. Rid him from this land.

Dempsey

The unionist must put the pressure on him for that to happen. And they will because of the feuding.

MrPudding

Hmmm, apparently as the IRA approved the 2 witnesses they are not independent.

MrP

Tomohawk

What difference will a 32 county Ireland make?