Question

air_vent

One thing I've wondered about the Quran is the interperation of it. Thought that there is none and this is an integral part of the beliefs. But there is a lot of disagrements about the Quran amongst muslims seems very unusal that.
Any reason?
Im courious I have no real direct contact with muslims!

KnowItAll

Only Muslims living in the west are confused because they want to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Hobbes

Consider yourself warned KnowitAll.

marco murphy

KnowItAll wrote:

Only Muslims living in the west are confused because they want to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Id assume your name was created on sarcasm.

Islam is built on Peace.

Diablolical

Okay if it was created on peace why is it that so many of your religion find it so easy to interpet your religious texts in a way in which it is deamed glorious and heroic to blow oneself up often along with innocent bystanders who simply happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.Surely you cannot deny the connection Muslim faith and extreamist terrorist activity.

Hobbes

Diablolical warned as well.

why is it that so many of your religion find it so easy to interpet your religious texts in a way in which it is deamed glorious and heroic to blow oneself up

Because some people are stupid.

Surely you cannot deny the connection Muslim faith and extreamist terrorist activity.

All religons have or had connections with what would be defined as terrorist activities. That does not mean that the actions of some idiots is reflective of the whole religon.

Lets face it, Muslims make up approx 22% of the worlds population (and increasing at approx 2% every year). If terrorist activity was the norm for the majority it would be a lot worse then what it is now.

bandraoi

why does this seem unusual?
there is one christian bible but there are thousands of disagreements over what it all means.
Even within any one strand of the christian belief the thoughts on what the whole thing means have changed vastly over the last 2000 years.

Crucifix

bandraoi wrote:

there is one christian bible but there are thousands of disagreements over what it all means

That's what I was thinking. I don't know anything about Islam, but I'd imagine the different interpretations would be for the same reasons the bible has been interpretated in different ways; metaphors, what to take literally etc etc.

Osman

Greetings,

Those who use their own interpretation of texts are wrong. The prominent islamic scholars are the ones we should consult as they have written the Qur'anic commentary (called tafsir) e.g.

http://www.tafsir.com/

http://www.translatedquran.com/allsurah.asp

The above two are the best and the most accurate

You may also find the below link of interest:

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/

Peace

marco murphy

well of course there is an extreme element in Islam.. i admit that... they shouldnt be listened to and are an insult to Islam.

Suff

The Quraan is God's (Allah) Actual Words, not Muhammad's or anyother person.
No person can provide a full and clear understanding of it, even the highest of scholars cant. it's language is unique and that's the main part of the miracle.
scholras do try to translate it and explain its meanings into a simple format, however no one has provided a perfect so to speak or a complete set.

one thing to remember...

Islam is Perfect....The people who practice it are not.

marco murphy

Islam is Perfect....The people who practice it are not.

ApeXaviour

science_and_god wrote:

What is clear is that Muhammad was a war loving, violent person who was anything but a "holy" person by ANY standard.

Muhammed was quite the liberal for his environment and time. By not massacring the citizens of a town just conquered I mean, as was the custom of the time..

science_and_god wrote:

What's perhaps most enlightening, is that the Bible contains prophecy about the future, 85% of which has been fulfilled.

*snickers

science_and_god wrote:

The other significant facet of Christianity is that it contains power. Jesus told his followers to lay hands on the sick in His name and they would recover. Many scientifically documented healings are taking place today based on Christians acting on this authority.

lol.. have you references of these scientificly documented healings? I'd very much like to see this journal they're published in. Many people have been cured by placebos too, are these also the work of christianity?

Though you may (I'm not sure) be well researched. You very much give the impression that you had your answer well before you began to research, nomatter what you found.

the_new_mr

science_and_god warned as well. Was considering a ban but will let you off with a warning.

It's not usually my style to say something like this but your post is completely ridiculous made up of random statements without any backing up with facts whatsoever. Your post was charged with hate.

Truth is, I feel sorry for you for your ignorance of Islam so I encourage you to do some reading about it.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/DIEZone

Hobbes

the_new_mr wrote:

science_and_god warned as well. Was considering a ban but will let you off with a warning.

I'm not. Permantly banned. Dragging up a seriously old post to berate the religon on your first post sounds like an user whos either afraid they will be banned from the forum or have already been banned. At worst, a newbie troll.

the_new_mr

Good point actually. Ban was the right decision after all.

RiderOnTheStorm

bandraoi wrote:

there is one christian bible but there are thousands of disagreements over what it all means.

there is one Bible, but there are many impersonators! I imagine its the same for the Qu'ran. The Bible tells us that it is directly the word of God, as the Qu'ran is directly the word of Allah. I imagine the Qu'ran also says something like 'the word of God is indestructable' 'is everlasting' 'is uncorruptable' etc, as the Bible makes this claim too. Would like to know if this is true.

Also, Christian scholars believe that becaue the Bible is the word of God and indestructable, that the many different versions of Bible avail on bookshelves (which then offer differing accounts and lead to contradiction) are ultimatly the work of satan, in an attempt to hide the tree in the woods, as it were. I would like to know if Muslims believe the same about the Qu'ran and the many interpretations of it?

T-1111111111111

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

there is one Bible, but there are many impersonators! I imagine its the same for the Qu'ran. The Bible tells us that it is directly the word of God, as the Qu'ran is directly the word of Allah. I imagine the Qu'ran also says something like 'the word of God is indestructable' 'is everlasting' 'is uncorruptable' etc, as the Bible makes this claim too. Would like to know if this is true.

Also, Christian scholars believe that becaue the Bible is the word of God and indestructable, that the many different versions of Bible avail on bookshelves (which then offer differing accounts and lead to contradiction) are ultimatly the work of satan, in an attempt to hide the tree in the woods, as it were. I would like to know if Muslims believe the same about the Qu'ran and the many interpretations of it?

I don't think there is one Bible. There is a huge problem among the Christian scholars to what the Bible actually is, how many books, etc.

This is much different to the Qur'an which on the other side is in Arabic only and there is only one version. English Qur'an for example does not really exist. When one refers to "English Qur'an" - an English translation/meaning of the Qur'an is meant, however that is not the Qur'an.

The Bible does not exist in its original form, nor it ever did. It is a collection of religious books written by (mostly) unknown authors who generally were not eyewitnesses to the actual events described in the Bible.

Furthermore, the number of books forming the Bible differs among Christians (i.e. Protestants vs Catholics, etc.)

the_new_mr

Hi RiderOnTheStorm. You're welcome here. Thanks for your questions (cool nick by the way!)

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

The Bible tells us that it is directly the word of God

In Islam, we share the opinion of the Bible scholars who state that the Bible is made up of:

1.: The words of God
2.: The words of the Bible authors
3.: The words of the Bible translators
4.: The words of historians

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

I imagine the Qu'ran also says something like 'the word of God is indestructable' 'is everlasting' 'is uncorruptable' etc, as the Bible makes this claim too. Would like to know if this is true.

It does indeed.

Al-Hijr:9
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

I would like to know if Muslims believe the same about the Qu'ran and the many interpretations of it?

Once again, I believe this is best answered with a quote from the Quran.

Al-Imran:7
"He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations--They are the substance of the Book--and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed."

RiderOnTheStorm

T-1111111111111 wrote:

It is a collection of religious books written by (mostly) unknown authors who generally were not eyewitnesses to the actual events described in the Bible.

Were there any eyewitness to Creation? The Bible and Qu'ran tell us they were dictated by God to be written down by men. Books of men are fallable, the word of God is infallable, regardless of when it was written.

What is the Muslim take on creation? I would say that 80% (or more) of Christians do not believe the account in their Bible. Rather, they think it is a methaphor for evolution.

RiderOnTheStorm

the_new_mr wrote:

Hi RiderOnTheStorm. You're welcome here. Thanks for your questions (cool nick by the way!)

thx. its nice to be able to ask some questions that have bugged me for a while, without fear of getting into a contest of faith or worse, a slagging match.

....once a Doors fan, always a Doors fan ;-)

the_new_mr

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

What is the Muslim take on creation? I would say that 80% (or more) of Christians do not believe the account in their Bible. Rather, they think it is a methaphor for evolution.

I take it you mean creation of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) then? Or do you mean creation in general? I shall first talk about the former.

Well, there are two opinions on this. One that a large majority of Muslims hold (including myself) and another that very few (if any) hold and was proposed by an arabic language expert recently.

The first is that evolution in the Darwin sense is incorrect. Until now, it is called the theory of evolution and cannot be scientifically proven. Microevolution (the evolution of a species to improve itself over a number of generations) is perfectly fine in Islam. Like a particular human gene pool having longer narrower noses to cope with the cold and things like that.

The other theory is that evolution did occur and Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) were spirtually transferred to earth as opposed to physically transferred into the already evolved beings. This theory is weak on a few points and is why I'm with the first one.

Personally, I don't dwell on it. The origin of the human race as we know it has no bearing on what we should do day-to-day, week-to-week etc. It doesn't dictate whether I should be good or bad, moral or immoral etc.

As for creation in general (earth, universe etc), The Quran is in line with modern science about this.

For example, universe is currently expanding.

Az-Zariyat:47
"And it is We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."

In Islam, we do believe that the earth was created in a matter of days but we also believe in the relativety of time and how the word "day" may not be one of our days we know it. Some verses showing this:

Al-Hajj:47
"And [so, O Muhammad,] they challenge thee to hasten the coming upon them of [God’s] chastisement: but God never fails to fulfill His promise - and, behold, in thy Sustainer’s sight a day is like a thousand years of your reckoning."

As-Sajda:5
"He governs all that exists, from the celestial space to the earth; and in the end all shall ascend unto Him [for judgment] on a Day the length whereof will be [like] a thousand years of your reckoning."

Al-Ma'arig:4
"all the angels and all the inspiration [ever granted to man] ascend unto Him [daily,] in a day the length whereof is [like] fifty thousand years"

Notice here how the words "of your reckoning" aren't present showing how there can be different "days" of different length and so a day with God could be much more than fifty thousand years.

Al-Mu'minun:112-114
"[And] He will ask [the doomed]: “What number of years have you spent on earth?”; They will answer: ‘We have spent there a day, or part of a day; but ask those who [are able to] count [time]…”; [Whereupon] He will say: “You have spent there but a short while: had you but known [how short it was to be]!"

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

thx. its nice to be able to ask some questions that have bugged me for a while, without fear of getting into a contest of faith or worse, a slagging match.

You're very welcome.

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

....once a Doors fan, always a Doors fan ;-)

I see

RiderOnTheStorm

the_new_mr wrote:

...evolution in the Darwin sense is incorrect. Until now, it is called the theory of evolution and cannot be scientifically proven. Microevolution (the evolution of a species to improve itself over a number of generations) is perfectly fine in Islam. Like a particular human gene pool having longer narrower noses to cope with the cold and things like that.

Amazing! That is exactly what I (as a Baptist Christian) believe!

The origin of the human race as we know it has no bearing on what we should do day-to-day, week-to-week etc. It doesn't dictate whether I should be good or bad, moral or immoral etc.

yup.... got to agree on that one too! But what I find funny (and sad) is athiests that dont believe in any god or higher power, but believe with all their heart that we are decended from animals, when evolution itself is a religion!

Ok, another question for you (and any Muslim that cares to answer). Its Friday now. Do Muslims have a Sabbath? Is use of electricity (and thus internet and this thread!) forbidden (as a type of work)? I know this is the case with some strict Jews, and wonder if Islam has something simular?

the_new_mr

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

But what I find funny (and sad) is athiests that dont believe in any god or higher power, but believe with all their heart that we are decended from animals, when evolution itself is a religion!

Yeah, I know what you mean. You could say that it comes from a need to believe in something.

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

Ok, another question for you (and any Muslim that cares to answer). Its Friday now. Do Muslims have a Sabbath? Is use of electricity (and thus internet and this thread!) forbidden (as a type of work)? I know this is the case with some strict Jews, and wonder if Islam has something simular?

That's a good question. There's nothing in Islam that says that someone has to do nothing on Friday or any other day. It's just a coincedence that I wasn't able to forum or e-mail all day Friday this week

Hobbes

Evolution is not a religon, its a theory. Big difference.

Mick86

Hobbes wrote:

Because some people are stupid......

All religons have or had connections with what would be defined as terrorist activities. That does not mean that the actions of some idiots is reflective of the whole religon.....

There are a lot of Islamic terrorists out there recruited by a lot of lads who use the Koran to justify terrorism. They can't all be stupid. To pass the problem off as the actions of a few morons is just putting your head in the sand and hoping it will disappear. Likewise putting Islamic Terrorism in the context of all religions having done similar. Are you seriously putting the actions of medieval terrorists on a par with the actions of 21st century terrorists?

~flammable~

Diablolical wrote:

Surely you cannot deny the connection Muslim faith and extreamist terrorist activity.

Hitler killed millions of Jews. Was he Muslim? No. Oh and Stalin. Was he Muslim? No. Take Mao Tsung. Was he Muslim? No.

I dont think actions of certain individuals should be blamed on their religion.

Sesshoumaru

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

yup.... got to agree on that one too! But what I find funny (and sad) is athiests that dont believe in any god or higher power, but believe with all their heart that we are decended from animals, when evolution itself is a religion!

I'm afraid Darwin never claimed to hear voices in his head, so evolution can't qualify as a religion

the_new_mr

Hobbes wrote:

Evolution is not a religon, its a theory. Big difference.

Yes but I think the point RiderOnTheStorm was making was that, even though it's not a religion, some athiests defend it as if it was their religion.

hairyheretic

~flammable~ wrote:

I dont think actions of certain individuals should be blamed on their religion.

I suppose that would depend on whether or not the individuals in question claimed their actions were motivated or supported by their religion.

Still, people twisting the intent of their beliefs in order to try and justify their activities isn't unique to any group.

Mick86

~flammable~ wrote:

Hitler killed millions of Jews. Was he Muslim? No. Oh and Stalin. Was he Muslim? No. Take Mao Tsung. Was he Muslim? No.

I dont think actions of certain individuals should be blamed on their religion.

So you don't blame Nazism nor Communism for genocide committed in the names of those systems. Hitler, Stalin and Mao on their own killed millions of people.