Peter Crouch

midget lord

Rafa seems to agree with me; strange:

And Benitez singled out lanky striker Peter Crouch for particular praise.

"I think he was man of the match - he kept the ball and gave us time," said Benitez.

Linkage.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

midget lord

See, a strikers job is not just to score goals. Crouch's position in 4-5-1 dictates that he holds the ball and spreads the play. He done this very well last night.

TheMonster

On one occasion in the second half he "contolled" the ball in the Chelsea half but bounced into the Liverpool half. One worrying thing is that nearly everytime Hyppia got the ball he hit it long to Crouch.


I am not sure he is the answer to Liverpools problems - he can play as the layoff striker but who is going to get goals then - not sure if he can do both. Van Nistelrooy is doing both at the moment.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

TheMonster

midget lord wrote:

See, a strikers job is not just to score goals. Crouch's position in 4-5-1 dictates that he holds the ball and spreads the play. He done this very well last night.

No but its his main job - has he even come close to scoring yet?

midget lord

Depends on your definition of coming close. For one he flashed a header just over the bar in the the dying momemts on saturday. Very unlucky.

The purpose of this thread was to point out that crouch is being a lot more effective than most people thought possible. The rest of the season will prove that he was a very good buy for £7m.

Guy:Incognito

midget lord wrote:

Are you guys for fooking real? The man was man of the match last night by a long way. He was terrific. The meanest defensive side in the premiership couldnt deal with him.

But yet he still didnt do his job, which is to score. Baros used to run all day but get nowhere aswell.

Guy:Incognito

midget lord wrote:

See, a strikers job is not just to score goals. Crouch's position in 4-5-1 dictates that he holds the ball and spreads the play. He done this very well last night.

Well the thing is, we are currently not scoring so what we need is a striker to score goals ( owen for example) not "cause mayhem in he box", which results in , common theme here, no goals.

BolBill

midget lord wrote:

Are you guys for fooking real? The man was man of the match last night by a long way. He was terrific. The meanest defensive side in the premiership couldnt deal with him.

Couldnt deal with him, yeah thats right, A clean sheet and never a threat from him, I'd say thats fairly well dealt with myself

redspider

Its funny how people can look at the same thing yet come away with a different opinion.

Yes, Crouch was difficult to deal with on a one-on-one basis, yet he created very little from any of that difficulty. Crouch had a difficult time hmself doing anything constructive with the ball. Chelsea cetainly made it difficult for him. The only thing that was positive was that it gave Liverpool N x free kicks from about 30 yards out. That was more to do with the ref/Carvalho than Crouch's skill, expertise at holding up the ball, or getting himself in a position where he was just about to create anything of use.

Like another poster wisely states, no assists, no creation, no shots, nothing. The chance he missed on the weekend he should have scored yet he missed. That was a negative, not a plus for him.

He is not a good enough player, and he is not the only one in the Liverpool team, alas.

Crouch was far from being the best player on the Liverpool team on the night, man of the match my arse. Benitez was just saying that to try to boost his confidence. Gerrard and Carra were easily better, Reina performed better making a few useful salves, as was Finnan, and Traore who nullified Duff. Alonso was better, Hamann was better. I've nearly read out the whole team there ... you know the other 3. Crouch is well down the list.

Mark my words. The Crouch/Liverpool experiment is not going to work out! The question is, how long will it take for Benitez to recognise his error and what, if anything can he do to remedt it.

redspider

redspider

So, now after the 1-4 loss against Chelsea, is anyone adjusting their position on Crouch?

Kingp35

redspider wrote:

So, now after the 1-4 loss against Chelsea, is anyone adjusting their position on Crouch?

No. Fact is Crouch is a very good player but he strives on service and crosses. Liverpool have no decent wingers so instead they pump straight balls into Crouch who then has to win it, control it and look around for a pass which is usually hard to find because he is so isolated. Liverpools midfield is mediocre with garcia, Risse, Zenden, Cisse (when he plays there) and Pongolle all being very poor at supplying crosses for Crouch. He is a player that needs service and when he gets it, like he did at Southampton, he is a very effective player. Liverpool do not play to his strengths and that is not the players fault. Can you name a single striker that has done well playing the lone role up front for Liverpool with this distinct lack of service and poor midfield behind them?

Guy:Incognito

Kingp35 wrote:

No. Fact is Crouch is a very good player but he strives on service and crosses. Liverpool have no decent wingers so instead they pump straight balls into Crouch who then has to win it, control it and look around for a pass which is usually hard to find because he is so isolated. Liverpools midfield is mediocre with garcia, Risse, Zenden, Cisse (when he plays there) and Pongolle all being very poor at supplying crosses for Crouch. He is a player that needs service and when he gets it, like he did at Southampton, he is a very effective player. Liverpool do not play to his strengths and that is not the players fault. Can you name a single striker that has done well playing the lone role up front for Liverpool with this distinct lack of service and poor midfield behind them?

He's terrible. I was watching him from 20 yards away and hes muck. Fair enough he got very little service from the wings but the ones he did get he (pardon the pun) crouches down as the ball comes to him instead of jumping.

p.pete

redspider wrote:

So, now after the 1-4 loss against Chelsea, is anyone adjusting their position on Crouch?

Definitely, conceeding 4 was his fault.

Guy:Incognito

p.pete wrote:

Definitely, conceeding 4 was his fault.

No, but not scoring, not playing to his potential and not using his height is.

p.pete

Stekelly wrote:

No, but not scoring, not playing to his potential and not using his height is.

Definitely don't think he uses his height properly, but not scoring against the Chelsea defence - that's not a springboard for a change of opinion about a player. Not scoring in any of his matches, that's a springboard, red spider coming out with the suggestion that we should change opinions after one match against a mean defence I think is a nonsense.

redspider

Kingp35 wrote:

Crouch strives on service and crosses. Liverpool have no decent wingers so instead they pump straight balls into Crouch who then has to win it, control it and look around for a pass which is usually hard to find because he is so isolated. Liverpools midfield is mediocre with garcia, Risse, Zenden, Cisse (when he plays there) and Pongolle all being very poor at supplying crosses for Crouch.

Ah, my point exactly. If Crouch needs a new midfield, why did Benitez buy him in the first place and now why does he play him? Would it not make sense to get the midfield in first and then get Crouch, if that is your ideal team? Its ludicrous to blame 5 other players for Crouch's lack of effectiveness. We all know that Crouch would score goals in a brilliant team, any player would with 10x maradona's, pele's, cruijff's, beckenbauers, yashin's, but Liverpool do not have that luxury.

Its exactly what I feared when Crouch was signed, he plays in a certain style and has limited capability, and the questiones were then as now:

1. does Liverpool have a team that supports that style? (No)
2. is a strategy of building a team around Crouch one that will be very successful? (No)


Crouch is just not good enough. Wake Up and smell the coffee, and that includes you Benitez !

redspider

Kingp35

redspider wrote:

Its ludicrous to blame 5 other players for Crouch's lack of effectiveness. We all know that Crouch would score goals in a brilliant team, any player would with 10x maradona's, pele's, cruijff's, beckenbauers, yashin's, but Liverpool do not have that luxury.

Southamton were certainly no team of superstars now were they especially considering they got relegated but what they did have was two good wingers who could supply Crouch and also a good striker up top with Crouch who could feed off him and also supply him. Its not ludicrous to blame the others for his ineffectiveness when its known that he strives on service and its the midfields job to provide this. my point is that Crouch is not a bad player, he has already proven this, my point is he doesnt fit into the Liverpool team as he has no service or support to allow him to play the way he is effective and the way he proved he can at Southampton.

Its exactly what I feared when Crouch was signed, he plays in a certain style and has limited capability, and the questiones were then as now:

1. does Liverpool have a team that supports that style? (No)
2. is a strategy of building a team around Crouch one that will be very successful? (No)

I agree with this but it certainly doesnt make him a bad player. Every player has his strengths and weaknesses, or if you like their capabilities. Crouch is a very good player with many strengths but he obviously cant run at and beat 4 defenders he needs to be given service which will then allow him to play to his capabilities. Look at it this way redspider every player is in a team because they are capable of doing a certain job. no player is capable of doing any job asked of him now are they. The problem does not lie with the ability of Crouch, he has already proven he is able, the problem lies with the Liverpool team and service given to Crouch. No one has answered me yet when I asked can you name a single striker who has done well for liverpool when he is up front by himself, totally isolated with such a poor midfield behind him?

Crouch is just not good enough. Wake Up and smell the coffee, and that includes you Benitez !

redspider

Crouch is good enough, the Liverpool team as a whole are not

BolBill

redspider is right, he's not good enough for Liverpool F.C., just like Heskey.

p.pete

Heskey was given plenty of time to prove or disprove himself, Crouch has had hardly any. Being a Liverpool supporter has never been about witch hunts, fairly crap to see some of the comments being aimed towards him.

I remain to be convinced about Crouch but in general the squad needs to be improved - we need a right midfielder and a central defender, we possibly need better full-backs. It's outside of the transfer window and nobody is going to be coming or going so give the squad that's there a chance.

As for tactics, I'm not convinced by them either - but it's early days in the season and the Chelsea game aside I don't think it's been that poor a start given the amount of attention we've needed to pay to the CL. We're not playing like CL winners but then again we're without some influential players such as Biscan and Smicer

evilhomer

You can't blame the general poorness of the liverpool team on peter crouch. He wasn't there last year and you still struggled to score goals. Even Owen wouldn't score too many with the service that is being provided.

I have said this twice in this thread but no one seems to care.
Crouch (or most strikers) will never be effective if it's 4 on 1. He is isolated by the team too often. Alonso and Gerrard spray long balls to him all game, when they should be holding the ball up long enough for the wingers to come in field and support crouch.

4-4-2 with Cisse and Crouch might be a better solution

p.pete

evilhomer wrote:

You can't blame the general poorness of the liverpool team on peter crouch. He wasn't there last year and you still struggled to score goals. Even Owen wouldn't score too many with the service that is being provided.

I have said this twice in this thread but no one seems to care.
Crouch (or most strikers) will never be effective if it's 4 on 1. He is isolated by the team too often. Alonso and Gerrard spray long balls to him all game, when they should be holding the ball up long enough for the wingers to come in field and support crouch.

4-4-2 with Cisse and Crouch might be a better solution

That's talking sense to me. Doesn't matter who's up front if we're not playing properly and at the moment I don't think Benitez has quite gotten it right. It remains to be seen how useful Crouch will be and I'm not sure you could even say that a reasonable evaluation can even have started yet the way we're playing.

Certainly we need to bring in more players in certain positions but I think the tactics need to be ironed out regardless, early doors on that front too though. We've gotten it right so far in Europe and we're only 6 games in so I don't see any reason not to be patient. Once again though any plans that could be worked on are now interupted by an international window.

The Muppet

I have never rated Couch and don't understand why liverpool signed him as he would not strike me a being good enough to be a typical liverpool player.

Most people expect Liverpool to play a fast passing game along the ground , I dont believe Crouch's game suits those tactics.

He certainly has the height to be a target man for the high ball but again he is not an exceptional header of the ball. Football analysts will tell you that a high percentage of goals will come from breaking ball in an around the box and Crouch may well get assists on his fair share of goals from the high ball approach if he was partnering an out and out goalscorer but he doesn't have that partner and even if he did would Liverpool fans really be happy if their team adopted those tactics?

Jivin Turkey

Kingp35 wrote:

No one has answered me yet when I asked can you name a single striker who has done well for liverpool when he is up front by himself, totally isolated with such a poor midfield behind him?

I doubt you will get an answer. It would debunk any points made against the Crouch who has apparently done all he ever will after a handful of games, broken up by an injury.

The Muppet wrote:

even if he did would Liverpool fans really be happy if their team adopted those tactics?

I wouldnt care how they played once they were winning. Ask some Chelsea fans are they really happy despite their at times "boring" tactics?

Once we get a good winger or two, I can't wait to see Crouch and Morientes in action together.

BolBill

He was woeful again at the weekend, He's a Coca Cola Championship player and nothing else. 7 million down the swannie

MrJoeSoap

BolBill wrote:

7 million down the swannie

The swannie being Rupert Lowes pocket.

zAbbo

I've been surprised at how good he is, he has unreal touch for a big lad, and every time he has the ball there are 2-3 men around him, not his fault, and dont make him the scapegoat.

I'd be very surprised if the majority of posters on this thread actually support liverpool and are not just having a go to deflect from there respective teams shortcommings

p.pete

I read an article yesterday quoting Jamie Redknapp as comparing him favourably to Wayne Rooney and Ronaldo in terms of skill.
I'm about to go home for the day but I'll see if I can find a link tomorrow...

MrJoeSoap

p.pete wrote:

I read an article yesterday quoting Jamie Redknapp as comparing him favourably to Wayne Rooney and Ronaldo in terms of skill.

As Football365's mediawatch so eloquently put it:

"And Don't Forget...
There's one other man who could challenge for a place in that Brazil team, at least according to Jamie Redknapp.

"Peter Crouch has got the feet of a Wayne Rooney or a Ronaldo in that he has a lot of skills," insists Redknapp on the Liverpool website.

Unfortunately, Jamie, he's got the legs of a donkey."

BolBill

Yeah and the shooting ability of Stevie Wonder.

Guy:Incognito

bazH wrote:

I've been surprised at how good he is, he has unreal touch for a big lad,

Why do people keep rolling out this cliche. What makes a tall person less skillfull than anyone else? Why is it seen as unusual to have a bit of a touch?

The fact is he's terrible. He was terrible up front with owen on saturday. He didnt supply him with chances and he didnt put himself on the end of any crosses. He hasnt got the positional awarness of a top striker. A van nistlerooy, Henry or dare I say Drogba would have been on the end of at least one of coles crosses becaus ethey know where they have to be , he doesnt.

blu_sonic

Stekelly wrote:

Why do people keep rolling out this cliche. What makes a tall person less skillfull than anyone else? Why is it seen as unusual to have a bit of a touch?

just its generally true, i think it sto do with center of graviety, i'm sure there is some physics explaination for it and no doubt someone will post the formula too, its also said big feet make for bad footballers too.

1 player who was huge but class: Socrates, for Brazil nuff said!

BolBill

How dare you mention Socrates in a Crouch thread

Necronomicon

I saw this morning that some sections of the crowd in the England match were booing him last night when he came on. Bad form I think.. If you don't like the lad you don't like him, but booing one of your players?

MrJoeSoap

Necromomicon wrote:

I saw this morning that some sections of the crowd in the England match were booing him last night when he came on. Bad form I think.. If you don't like the lad you don't like him, but booing one of your players?

Yeah thats uncalled for. Might be a good way of letting Sven know that they would prefer someone else though. Can't be good for the guy to hear though.

Davei141

The amount of times those fans turn on there own players so fast is rediculous, they were booing the whole team at one point whenever they didnt pass it forward. And that was about the 60 minute mark and it was 1-1! never mind that they qualified for the world cup and were playing really well against a decent polish team! What was worse was that they spent most the second half booing then when lampard scored it was the "engerland, engerland, engerland..." Everyone happy. I almost got sick.

gracehopper

Thats the old trafford crowd for ye, an expectant lot of gits they are

evilhomer

I'm sure a few people were thinking of boooing when Gary Doherty came on the other night against switzerland.
I personally had my head in my hands from the shame of it all!

TheMonster

11 mins short of 24 hours now.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17249-1899413,00.html

Jivin Turkey

What's your point?

Bacchus

Wonder what odds you'd get on him scoring in the first 11 minutes against Wigan.

TheMonster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

What's your point?

thats hes taken nearly 24 hours of playing to score

officially the longest in LFC History

http://www.lfchistory.net/redcorner_articles_view.asp?article_id=1009

The Rooster

Wow - took Rushie 10 games to get his first goal!

How many did Aldo go for Ireland before he scored?

Last player to score on his competitive debut for Liverpool???












Abel Xavier in 2002 :eek: :eek:

mchurl

He'll come good lads trust me and as i've said before, we'll gladly accept him back if pool fans dont want him

DaveH

I wonder who was the longest player to go with out a goal for Liverpool??

Was it Rob Jones, 1991 - 1998. Never scored a goal for the club. I think he played pretty much every game except one in 94/95.

The game he didnt play was Manchester Utd home, Reds won 2-0. Scales made his first and only apperance as Right full that day.

wheres me jumpa

imo...

crouch is a good player. however i dont think he is good enough to be playing for liverpool. thats my poinion and i hope he proves me wrong. he has missed alot of chances lately but the flip side of that is some of the chances came about because he got himself into good positions. the pressure must be horrible for a striker as really you are only rated on goals. once your scoring people start appreciating other aspects of your game.

Guy:Incognito

He's going to end up with a goalscoring record to rival Carra's

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

thats hes taken nearly 24 hours of playing to score

officially the longest in LFC History

http://www.lfchistory.net/redcorner_articles_view.asp?article_id=1009

Who cares how many he scores once the team wins?

Necronomicon

Crouch could learn a lot from players like Ibrahimovic. He plays a vital part for Juventus, even though he's not a prolific goalscorer. If Crouch could continue to develop that part of his game, then he will get his share of goals. Maybe not 20-30 a season, but his overall contribution could be worth that.