Peter Crouch

fade2black

Goal!!!!!

Töpher

fade2black wrote:

Goal!!!!!

OG

mchurl

quality goal!!!

kensutz

Own goal

Ronan|Raven

Thats what he needed any sort of a poxy deflection.. anything at all just to break the duck.

Vikings

I think thats the best goal ive ever seen.

kensutz

No denying him that

mchurl

he's on fire:D great finish for the second

fade2black

First one officially an own goal...

radiospan

Just came up on Sky's vidiprinter there as a correction. Pollitt own goal it was.

Davei141

How on earth is it the keepers own goal? If he hadnt of been there it would of went into the goal.

Roar

His second was a top quality finish i have to admit..

he looked thrilled to bits after the first one went in, fair play to him he had to wait for it..

he'll be banging them in for fun now.

Big Ears

Davei141 wrote:

How on earth is it the keepers own goal? If he hadnt of been there it would of went into the goal.

It's crazy to give the OG to the defender it struck would be one thing (even though I don't think that should have happened either ) but to give it to the keeper............

Tusky

I find it mind bendingly crazy that its counted as an own goal!!!! That is rediculous.

Big Ears

My definition of an own goal is : when a shot is going off target from a player and an opposition player strikes/has the ball struck off them causing the ball to go into the net .

If there is doubt about where the ball was heading should be given to the person who struck the ball origionally and not put down as an OG .

Well that's how id like it to happen anyway .

Thanx 4 The Fish

Goal has apparently been referred to the dubious decisions panel..

The atmosphere in the Kop when he scored was absolutely superb for both the first and second goals.

Vikings

Well as far as paddy power is concerned it was crouch's goal as they paid out on my first to score bet on him. (€5 @11/2)

The Muppet

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Well as far as paddy power is concerned it was crouch's goal as they paid out on my first to score bet on him. (€5 @11/2)

And so they should . It was never an own Goal. The keeper should have saved it though. Crouche second goal was very nice it will be interesting to see what he does now that he has relieved the pressure on himself.

Dr. Nick

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Well as far as paddy power is concerned it was crouch's goal as they paid out on my first to score bet on him. (€5 @11/2)

Well, not really. If it was an own-goal PP pay on the next goal.
Having said that, they paid out on a Gerrard goal last season which took a huge deflection.
I put a 10er of my Crouch winnings on 3-0 to ManYoo, so good day all round for me

Thanx 4 The Fish

Yes he should be a little quicker with the extra weight of that monkey off his back..

Dr. Nick

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Yes he should be a little quicker with the extra weight of that monkey off his back..

That was Gerrard on his back, he's no monkey.....'though Harry wasn't far behind, peachy of course.

Kingp35

Lads I seriously can not believe the people here who are saying that wasnt an own goal. So what if it was going in anyway the keeper slapped it into his own net. Dont be ridiculous and say it was his goal.

Nice second one though

redspider

The debate as to whether the 1st on Sat was a Crouch goal or not is technical. What is clear is that this was a very fortunate goal for Liverpool. A wicked deflection off De Zeuuw, and a very poor attempt to knock it over the bar by the keeper. That goal, which Crouch clearly felt was his probably gave him the confidence for the rest of the match and to score his 2nd with some panache.

The 1st goal was clearly helped by a poor Wigan defence. Crouch picked the ball up on the halfway line but was allowed the freedom to run at the defence unchallenged before he unleashed his half-blocked shot from 20-something yards.

I agree with your definition of an og Big Ears. In this case, the shot was probably on target from the outset or at least not conclusive enough that it was going wide. So neither the defender nor the keeper can be blamed for an og as they were trying to keep it out, even though the keepers attemp was lame and he should have done better.

So, was it a display that tells us whether:
a) Crouch is brilliant, or
b) Crouch is not good enough for a Liverpool side ?

My view before hand and now has not changed. Its b. Yes, it is true he got a goal or two and put in reasonable effort, but his style is not one that endears Liverpool to play with a world-beating potent attacking line. It has worked to a certain degree against teams that have played weakly, but in all honesty, if Liverpool had a couple of other decent strikers to pick from, Crouch wouldnt be getting many games. Just because Liverpool are desperately short of good quality strikers at the moment does not convert Crouch into a good player.

I'm glad for him and Liverpool that he's scored, but his overall effectiveness, which is what we should all be judging him on, is still not up to the standard that I would be expecting for Liverpool.

redspider

Thanx 4 The Fish

What do you mean his overall effectiveness ? Did you see all of the game, the guy was immense, he can hold the ball up, passes well, takes the ball down with ease and his first touch is on a par with many on the team. He made some very intelligent passes and created any number of chances that liverpool should have stuck away, that flick behind himself for Gerrards burst through was top class, couple of good knock downs for Morientes aalways has a defender on or near him which allows space for the rest of the team to play through.

Granted he is not up to scratch yet but he is certainly improving and as long as he is improving then there is no telling how good he can be for the pool.

BolBill

In fairness he played well on Saturday, but it was Wigan FFS !! (who are still not as good as Ac Milan)

p.pete

redspider wrote:

So, was it a display that tells us whether:
a) Crouch is brilliant, or
b) Crouch is not good enough for a Liverpool side ?

Why would one performance tell you either a) or b)? Over a number performances that I've seen I'm leaning towards a), I agree pretty much with how Thanx 4 The Fish describes his contribution.

redspider wrote:

My view before hand and now has not changed. Its b. Yes, it is true he got a goal or two and put in reasonable effort, but his style is not one that endears Liverpool to play with a world-beating potent attacking line. It has worked to a certain degree against teams that have played weakly, but in all honesty, if Liverpool had a couple of other decent strikers to pick from, Crouch wouldnt be getting many games. Just because Liverpool are desperately short of good quality strikers at the moment does not convert Crouch into a good player.

I disagree (without being long winded).

mchurl

i think he offers a lot to liverpool. He is very good at holding up the ball, he gives them the option of knocking it up long if they want, they can work off his flicks, he is decent with the ball at his feet, he gives them great attacking options from corners free kicks etc. and also gives them a big boost defensivly for corners etc., and with the quality of players like gerrard and alonso delivering balls into the box he gives them a great option of winning headers. Does anyone know the stats of the assists he has got this season?

redspider

> What do you mean his overall effectiveness ? Did you see all of the game, the guy was immense
> Granted he is not up to scratch yet but he is certainly improving

Well, he was either immense or not up to scratch, he cant be both. He plays a certain role well, but its to be expected for someone that is 6'7 and able to move reasonably well, for a "tall lad" (which is terrible compare with a small 5'8 lad). Its the Niall Quinn role, act as a target, knock the ball on, keep it if possible. But its not the style that is either good football, good to watch, or indeed traditional Liverpool football. It may work against the lesser teams in England, but it also may not.


> he can hold the ball up, passes well, takes the ball down with ease and his first touch is on a par with many on the team.

He also loses the ball a lot, he is slow, he is poor in the air in the box when attempting to score, something that Nialler was better at. Yes, he is better than Morientes as a target man, but Morientes is arguably a better header in the box, and could exploit that if Liverpool got down the wings and got in some crosses from deep, etc.

> aalways has a defender on or near him which allows space for the rest of the team to play through.

Thats not much of an addition to a team.


> there is no telling how good he can be for the pool.

This is as good as its going to get, I think. He's 24 now.



> he gives them the option of knocking it up long if they want, they can work off his flicks, he is decent with the ball at his feet, he gives them great attacking options from corners free kicks etc. and also gives them a big boost defensivly for corners etc., and with the quality of players like gerrard and alonso delivering balls into the box he gives them a great option of winning headers.

Yes, there is no doubt that he can be a handful for defenders and he will get his head to the ball. But the long ball game is not really a winning strategy.

> Does anyone know the stats of the assists he has got this season?

According to these stats (2 games old) he had 0 (zero) assists:
http://home.skysports.com/optastats.asp?clid=14&clubname=Liverpool&cpid=8

The stats indicate a few things. Crouch is a "great" dribbler, which is his holding the ball up and laying it off, 75% success rate. But where is he in other measures, attempts at goal, etc. Nowhere, for a big man he may have some good feet, but because he is a big man perhaps he is poor at other aspects, which Liverpool currently need, and thats goal-scoring. I dont think he will be highest on the assists ranking now at the 14-game stage, or at the end of the season. He also fouls the most, 20 in all at the 12-game stage, and ahead of the wayward Garcia.

The debate about Peter Crouch will rage on. He did himself a good deed on Sat, but many more of these will be needed. I am not complaining as such as long as Liverpool are winning, but just warning for the future.

redspider

Oriel

Good finish, great layoff for Gerrard, things are hopefully going to take off from here...

segadreamcast

Let's see what happens tomorrow and draw conclusions then, eh?

Oriel

I wouldn't be surprised if he's left on the bench for tomorrow's match.

mchurl

sinecurea wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if he's left on the bench for tomorrow's match.

Any reaons for this or is rafa just going to give him a rest?

Oriel

I just think that it's going to be difficult enough to score against Chelsea, and perhaps playing Crouch will make him a bit more aggitated. He's made a big breakthrough for himself - take a bit of a breather to relax, come back guns blazing for the weekend.
Maybe not though.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well Alonso is already being rested and since there is nothing to lose, I feel that Morientes will get a run with Cisse, this should calm Cisse down. Could field a reserve team I suppose but a humping at this stage of the season in the middle of a decent run is not what Rafa will want for the team. There is also the little matter of the money received for a win/draw, could pay a couple of weeks wages..

Vokes

Plus if we lose we could end up drawing any one of Arsenal, Bayern, Juve, Lyon, Milan, Inter, Barca!

midget lord

Ah yes.

I thought i would bring back up this thread.


Have people's overall opinions of crouchinho changed?

He, again, was excellent today. Who would have believed he could do something bergkampesque in taking the ball down with his chest, flicking the ball over the defenders with his right and shooting with his left, would have been an awsome goal, unlucky with the finish.

Im talking in particular to Redspider. Always doubted him, and will, i have not doubt, put together a post of about 5000 words that i will get pissed off reading after two words.

TheMonster

2 words
"Deportivo Saprissa"
I would probably look decent playing against them.

I think hes a decent player but don't think he is of a good enough standard for a team challenging for major trophies. I think there are a lot of better players out there that could do a similar role.(I think Benitez is trying to make him play like Sparky Hughes used to for United)

What he will be judged on is whether he delivers in the really big games. From what I have seen it looks like top class defenders can easily dominate him once they get a few minutes to adjust to his game. He is also very average in the air for someone of his height.

p.pete

Crouch was excellent today (as was Cisse delightfully). Yeah, that bergkampesque move would have been for the hattrick, shame. Sometimes when he's holding the ball up it seems to stick to his foot like you'd expect from players such as Rooney, see the buildup to the opening goal for an example of this. Also excellent header on for Riise to help create space to cross in for the second.

p.pete

TheMonster wrote:

What he will be judged on is whether he delivers in the really big games.

Like the semi final of the world club championships? Only game I can think of bigger is the final of the world club championships, and that's on Sunday:D

TheMonster wrote:

From what I have seen it looks like top class defenders can easily dominate him once they get a few minutes to adjust to his game. He is also very average in the air for someone of his height.

Generally because the top class defenders get away with pulling players about the place, he's only light - I agree he's only average in the air. He seems most comfortable taking it on his chest which is a waste of height advantage

midget lord

TheMonster wrote:

2 words

What he will be judged on is whether he delivers in the really big games. From what I have seen it looks like top class defenders can easily dominate him once they get a few minutes to adjust to his game. He is also very average in the air for someone of his height.

Like Carvalho has dominated him?

midget lord

Here we go!



Crouchzilla on the rampage.

Davei141

Your wasting your time midget. Some people would find a fault if he scored a hat trick, "the opposition are crap", "he had enough chances", "still not good enough" ect, ect. if he scores 15 goals this season, it should be 20, if he scores 20, its a lucky year. If he makes an assist "the ball just hit him", (you know who you are). If he puts in a brilliant performance and doesnt score, "its not good enough". If he wins a game in the last minute, "he couldnt of missed".

Its no coincidence that people who looked at the crouch transfer with an open mind, think he is great and a brilliant addition to the team, and those that were opposed from the start are still clinging to the vain hope of being right, almost wishing he fails, for the right to say "I told you so". Thats fine of course, but the rest of us will be behind him 100%.

p.pete

Davei141 wrote:

Your wasting your time midget. Some people would find a fault if he scored a hat trick, "the opposition are crap", "he had enough chances", "still not good enough" ect, ect. if he scores 15 goals this season, it should be 20, if he scores 20, its a lucky year. If he makes an assist "the ball just hit him", (you know who you are). If he puts in a brilliant performance and doesnt score, "its not good enough". If he wins a game in the last minute, "he couldnt of missed".

Its no coincidence that people who looked at the crouch transfer with an open mind, think he is great and a brilliant addition to the team, and those that were opposed from the start are still clinging to the vain hope of being right, almost wishing he fails, for the right to say "I told you so". Thats fine of course, but the rest of us will be behind him 100%.

The same people who say beating Chelsea, AC Milan and Juventos on the way to the Champions league was a fluke?
The same people who say the Drink Cup is worth nothing when we win it or get to the final?
The same people who say we shouldn't have won the FA Cup coz we only scored at the end of the match?
The same people who say a treble with the UEFA Cup is worth nothing?
The same people who's clubs have been winning sod all in the last few years?
And of course Red Spider

yom 1

From BBC

"Liverpool striker Peter Crouch has been credited with the opening goal in the match against Wigan in December. "

Go on the Crouchy-boy:p

p.pete

4 goals in 4 games? He's up there with David Kelly in my book

Jivin Turkey

yom 1 wrote:

From BBC

"Liverpool striker Peter Crouch has been credited with the opening goal in the match against Wigan in December. "

Go on the Crouchy-boy:p

Not surprised in the least to be honest.

If it were any other player I don't even think it would have had to have gone to the dubious goals panel.

jesus_thats_gre

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4499060.stm

Third_Echelon

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4499060.stm

Now is it just me, or did anyone else think that the ball was heading for Goodison Park before the deflection off the defender and then the keeper resulted in the ball going into the net???

p.pete

Third_Echelon wrote:

Now is it just me, or did anyone else think that the ball was heading for Goodison Park before the deflection off the defender and then the keeper resulted in the ball going into the net???

I think if it was heading for Goodison then it would have been air-born before getting to the defender. No idea if it was on target myself.

Kingp35

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4499060.stm

Bit of a joke tbh