Ghosts, Spirits..Souls?

solas

katie wrote:

Suicides dont necessarily get trapped as ghosts, (what an awful thought for their families)

It is a difficult thought for families, if they think that the spirit or soul of their loved ones have not moved on to a better place, but such is not the case with earthbound spirit. This is quite a contentious issue, especially in spiritual circles, partially because the nature of "spirit" is not fully understood in this context.

The difference being that any energy or residue left behind is a result of a disturbance in the field, it is residual, an imprint and not what we like to think of as the essence or soul of that being.
This is why I told the story so that others might understand it in this context.
If I were to watch a video of someone who has passed, I know it is not really that person I am seeing, but a memory of them caught on tape. Earthbound spirit is the same thing.

If a person has taken their own life or dies in a voilent manner, the memory created by the disturbance is what can be left behind, and not the "essence" or "soul" of them.

katie wrote:

Ive found most houses with any kind of past carry a residue of some kind anyway, and we all live with it without noticing

this is very much the case and not all residue is malignant, if you think of places like lourdes or other holy places where people have attested to miraculous healings or cures, its because the place carries a particular resonance which people seemingly benefit from. Memories of a much higher "quality".

We as humans could be considered something along the lines of electricty transormers or adaptors, as conduits of memories we have the capacity to tap into these energy streams.

[edit] god I hope that makes sense outside of my brain.

solas

there's something bugging me about what I previously wrote and I can't put my finger on it right now (been awake for 36hours, brain fried) but I'll come back tomorrow and see if I can sort it out.
I would like to discuss the topic in more detail if anyone is up for it. (earthbound, spirit, soul etc)

Oryx

solas wrote:

there's something bugging me about what I previously wrote and I can't put my finger on it right now (been awake for 36hours, brain fried) but I'll come back tomorrow and see if I can sort it out.
I would like to discuss the topic in more detail if anyone is up for it. (earthbound, spirit, soul etc)

Im up for this, but you knew that already
I think what you refer to as earthbound, I would call 'echoes' cos I never knew what else to call it. Its when you get a feeling or a series of images relating to the past of the place, but its a bit like being shown a video reel, and I always know Im not feeling a presence, more like picking up on a snippet of the past. People dont have to be dead to leave these echoes, I remember being in a house where a lot of rows took place, and I was very aware of it
I only have experience of one suicide, but my feeling was that the person had been taken to a spiritual place on dying where they could be cared for and 'rest' maybe coming to terms with what they had done, before moving on. The were in no way trapped, more being cared for and isolated, but in a good way, and I felt it was temporary, a healing place if you will.

stevenmu

If I understand what's being said here it's that what may percieved by many people as a 'ghost' is sometimes just an echo/impression/recording left behind by a person, perhaps the pure emotion of some traumatic event. Other times it may in fact be the spirit of the person remaining in contact with the pysical plane, perhaps because of something left unfinished ? I've got the impression from various bits and pieces I've read that both ideas would be seperate theories for what 'ghosts' are, it's interesting to think that both could have a place together.

solas wrote:

It is a difficult thought for families, if they think that the spirit or soul of their loved ones have not moved on to a better place, but such is not the case with earthbound spirit. This is quite a contentious issue, especially in spiritual circles, partially because the nature of "spirit" is not fully understood in this context.

It may be weird that I've actually thought about this, altough on this board maybe not so weird, but I'd like to think that if I died with some unfinished business that I'd have a chance to finish it (and I'll freely admit that's based purely on optimism). By extension I'd like to think if someone close to me died in the same position that they too would have a chance to finish whatever they needed to before moving on.

6th

Steven can i suggest "Spirited" by Tony Stockwell (of LivingTV fame) its a great rad and will make you feel even better about the after life!

I have a copy if you want a loan, just pm me and i can post it off.

6th

solas

*hugs Dub (sorry bout the mix up)

steve wrote:

If I understand what's being said here it's that what may percieved by many people as a 'ghost' is sometimes just an echo/impression/recording left behind by a person, perhaps the pure emotion of some traumatic event. Other times it may in fact be the spirit of the person remaining in contact with the pysical plane, perhaps because of something left unfinished ? I've got the impression from various bits and pieces I've read that both ideas would be seperate theories for what 'ghosts' are, it's interesting to think that both could have a place together.

This is where I'm comming from.
I've sort of concluded that te majority of ghostly presences or apparitions are nothing more than echoes. I guess this is a frightning thought for those who believe in the continuation of life as it suggests such is not the case and that really what is being perceived is just residual energy, an empty shell without consciousness.

I know this is debatable but thats why I would like to discuss the subject.

Will have a think about it and come back to it later.

Oryx

stevenmu wrote:

It may be weird that I've actually thought about this, altough on this board maybe not so weird, but I'd like to think that if I died with some unfinished business that I'd have a chance to finish it (and I'll freely admit that's based purely on optimism). By extension I'd like to think if someone close to me died in the same position that they too would have a chance to finish whatever they needed to before moving on.

Ideally the unfinished stuff should not matter. On the spiritual plane we should understand how trivial material matters are, ideally :rolleyes: But as we are so attached to our physical selves here, I guess it can be very hard to give up that identity, and some spirits may feel compelled to get things done from the other side! (and keep this forum in business ) I also think spirits of relatives and loved ones do have a chance to keep an eye on us and watch over us until we pass over to them in our time, and that this is based on love and so spiritually is a good thing for us and them.

solas

katie wrote:

I also think spirits of relatives and loved ones do have a chance to keep an eye on us and watch over us until we pass over to them in our time,

where do we go when we pass over to them Katie?

I just need to clarify something because Ive gone down this road before. when I said

me wrote:

It is a difficult thought for families, if they think that the spirit or soul of their loved ones have not moved on to a better place, but such is not the case with earthbound spirit.

I'm not trying to suggest that because someone has taken their own life that they get trapped here. what I'm saying is that the event creates an "echo", as you have described it katie and that is what is preceived as earthbound energy.

had a load of spiritualists whack me for this before..and I feel like I've unfinished business in this area, which I woud like to resolve.

Kernel

What about cases where spirits or ghosts reacted in a way to imply they had a consciousness and an awareness of what is around them, including even interacting or speaking with the observer? That wouldn't lend weight to the theory of recorded echoes in time (although I have also read of many examples of hauntings being observed that seemed oblivious to surroundings and played out like a recording basically). Always hard to tell, but my own crazy theory on it is that we will understand more on it when we understand more about time and what it is.

Think space time continuum, and what happens is we somehow see what happened in the same space at a different time. Could that mean that on some level the human brain has the ability to transcend time, or maybe time is layered. The ability to manipulate time or to imprint time may be untapped and only surfaces in times of extreme emotional trauma? Who knows, not me anyway.

Sapien should know.

solas

kernel wrote:

What about cases where spirits or ghosts reacted in a way to imply they had a consciousness and an awareness of what is around them, including even interacting or speaking with the observer?

an illusion?
If these "echoes" are a form of kinetic energy then we have the ability to interact with them. For example, those who went to charleville reported feeling nautious around the area of the stairs where the woman fell to her death, steve also was aware of a sense of vertigo or just sensing deeply how it would feel to have fallen over.
Speaking in the first person, this could be considered an account of spirit communication, which on the outside seems like it has some kind of consciousness, but in reality it's just steve stepping into those memories (or time frame) and experiencing them himself. (think Derek Acorah)
As for mediums and other forms of spirit communication, without us as the channel for these energies, there would be no consciousness behind them. (or so it seems to me)

kernel wrote:

Think space time continuum, and what happens is we somehow see what happened in the same space at a different time. Could that mean that on some level the human brain has the ability to transcend time, or maybe time is layered.

Like bono said, stuck in a moment and ya can't get out of it.

6th

There seems to be two main theories here:

One that ghost/hauntings/spirits/energies etc., are merely residual energies with limited expressions - that they will only "re-enact" moments in time, and impression made on time and space.

The other that the "spirit" is a conscious being who for one reason or another has not "moved on" (to where i am not getting into in this post!). This spirit is an energy which can make choice - for example to communicate, if it is in their power to do so.

Yet from my experience neither of these ideas mean that the other is not possible. I have experienced both forms.

The first as Solas mentioned was experienced in Charleville only a few days ago. Steven made reference in a post regarding Charleville that two members of the team almost burst into tears at one point, i'm man enough ( ) to admit without hesitation that i was one of those. At the top of the stairs where a girl (harriot aged 6) fell to her death, i was suddenly overcome with a deep DEEP feeling of distress and sadness, i beleive that at this point i had stepped into an "echo" an area where someone sensitive like myself could feel the residual engery leftover from the time of the accident.

The second is one i have experienced a number of times when i have come across a spirit who is/was as aware of me as i am of them. My favour example of this was in a church on Edinburghs Royal Mile, where i became aware and actually saw a woman sitting in a pew. My wife instinctively knew from my reaction and left me to go to the woman. I sat with this woman for maybe half an hour, during which she made me aware taht she was there to pray for her son, who had just died in a motorbike accident. One question i asked myself, yet out of respect did not ask her was - why if both she and her son where on the other side could she not go to him, for this i'll never have an answer. after expressing that she had gone through quite some time worrying about him after he bought this bike, we sat together until i had to leave. As i went to leave i just whispered "God Bless" though i am not strictly a religious person, at this point she place her hand on my warm and said "thank you" which i heard audiably. her touch was warm and gave me a wonderfully calm feeling. as i left i didnt look back at her to see if she was still there, simply because i needed no further proof of what i had experienced. it did cross my mind to check news reports and newspapers for mention of road deaths but again i felt it would be dissrespectful to seek such self-confirmation of my "gift". This was my most wonderful yet saddening experience of interaction with a spirit which left me in no doubt that we continue on in some form.

hope me explaining my experiences lends something to the discussion here.

6th

solas

dub wrote:

Steven made reference in a post regarding Charleville that two members of the team almost burst into tears at one point, i'm man enough ( ) to admit without hesitation that i was one of those. At the top of the stairs where a girl (harriot aged 6) fell to her death, i was suddenly overcome with a deep DEEP feeling of distress and sadness, i beleive that at this point i had stepped into an "echo" an area where someone sensitive like myself could feel the residual engery leftover from the time of the accident.

Sounds like you were experiencing her emotions.

dub wrote:

This was my most wonderful yet saddening experience of interaction with a spirit which left me in no doubt that we continue on in some form.

thanks for sharing this story dub, its good to have another perspective on the situation.
I have had similar experiences although not quite as profound but I did have a conversation with my father (audiby) after he passed but after all these years I have put these experiences down to grief. I figure he doesn't exist anywhere outside of my mind. I did believe for a long time and have had many spiritual encounters but right now I'm sitting on the fence with regard to how feasible they are/were.
[edit] hence all the questions

Kernel

dublin6th wrote:

The second is one i have experienced a number of times when i have come across a spirit who is/was as aware of me as i am of them.

How did you know she was a spirit 6th?

6th

solas wrote:

.....hence all the questions

We never stop asking questions, but i do understand you sitting on the fence, its a bit easier sometimes to believe its in our minds, even though i know what i know i sometimes like to doubt it so i dont have to deal with questions like "why has ****** not come back to tell me they're ok ... did i not mean enough to them?".

It takes a little blind faith, but for me its worth it.

6th

6th

Kernel wrote:

How did you know she was a spirit 6th?

Very good question. My wife didnt see her, even though she made eye contact with me several times. Also i see spirits differently than i see people - its very hard to explain but to me they have an almost visiable vibration off them, i find it hard to focus sometimes when looking at them.

6th

stevenmu

Kernel wrote:

Think space time continuum, and what happens is we somehow see what happened in the same space at a different time. Could that mean that on some level the human brain has the ability to transcend time, or maybe time is layered. The ability to manipulate time or to imprint time may be untapped and only surfaces in times of extreme emotional trauma? Who knows, not me anyway.

That reminds me of an idea I posted here ages ago. I thought that perhaps, if an event or emotion was strong or traumatic enough it would kind of ripple outwards through time. A person could then later stand at that spot and feel the energy, which would seem like a kind of residue left behind from our perspective in time, but could in fact be them feeling what happened at it's time from our time (if that makes any sense at all). If there is some form of emotion/spirit energy (a pretty big if), then I see no reason why it would nessecarily follow the same rules of time that we would.

solas wrote:

steve also was aware of a sense of vertigo or just sensing deeply how it would feel to have fallen over.
Speaking in the first person, this could be considered an account of spirit communication, which on the outside seems like it has some kind of consciousness, but in reality it's just steve stepping into those memories (or time frame) and experiencing them himself. (think Derek Acorah)

Do I get to be on TV ?
For the sake of clarity, it was like in one instant, the entire set of memories or impressions of falling flashed through my head. It wasn't very clear but it was enough to make me leap back from the bannister, I'd been looking over it it for a couple of minutes before this happened and I have a very good head for heights so it's not as if I looked over and paniced when I saw how high it was. I've only had that feeling, or at least a very similar one, once before when looking down over an aquaduct near home. I'm not sure if anyone has died there before, but I think I'll try and find out.

Oryx

solas wrote:

where do we go when we pass over to them Katie?

I really dont know, possibly its way beyond what we could comprehend. Dont reckon its a biblcal heaven and hell tho.

dub6th wrote:

Yet from my experience neither of these ideas mean that the other is not possible

Agree with you. It would seem to me to be two separate and distinct phenomena.

solas

steve wrote:

Do I get to be on TV ?

I'll put in a call to RTE.

steve wrote:

I thought that perhaps, if an event or emotion was strong or traumatic enough it would kind of ripple outwards through time

It seems that the concept of "heaven" and spirit exist outside the parametres of time as we percieve it. So staying with the time continuum theme, it's plausible to think of "heaven" as an echo which pervades throughout all time or what we've come to know as "eternity". I wonder who created that memory.

....as Whitney houston conceived, before she became a junkie:

"I want one moment in time
When I'm more than I thought I could be
When all of my dreams
Are a heart beat away
And the answers are all up to me
Give me one moment in time
When I'm racing with destiny
Then in that one moment of time
I will feel, I will feel eternity"

*sniff..your all so beautiful...

p.s.:I'll be interwebless for a while TFTF will be around to pander to all your needs. Take care and be well.

stevenmu

solas wrote:

It seems that the concept of "heaven" and spirit exist outside the parametres of time as we percieve it. So staying with the time continuum theme, it's plausible to think of "heaven" as an echo which pervades throughout all time or what we've come to know as "eternity". I wonder who created that memory.

Makes sense in some ways, but doesn't account for what (if anything) happens to the concious spirit.

solas wrote:

before she became a junkie:

Sure about that ?

solas wrote:

p.s.:I'll be interwebless for a while TFTF will be around to pander to all your needs. Take care and be well.

Take care, and hurry back.

Kernel

dublin6th wrote:

Very good question. My wife didnt see her, even though she made eye contact with me several times. Also i see spirits differently than i see people - its very hard to explain but to me they have an almost visiable vibration off them, i find it hard to focus sometimes when looking at them.

6th

Oh right, that's interesting, I didn't know that you had psychic abilities. Have you seen many spirits, or would you see them on a day to day basis for example? I know of people who seem to attract these kinds of phenomenon in their lives, which must be pretty wierd really.

stevenmu wrote:

That reminds me of an idea I posted here ages ago. I thought that perhaps, if an event or emotion was strong or traumatic enough it would kind of ripple outwards through time. A person could then later stand at that spot and feel the energy, which would seem like a kind of residue left behind from our perspective in time, but could in fact be them feeling what happened at it's time from our time (if that makes any sense at all). If there is some form of emotion/spirit energy (a pretty big if), then I see no reason why it would nessecarily follow the same rules of time that we would.

Yes, it seems on the weight of evidence that emotional trauma seems to leave some kind of intangible residue, or a 'feeling' that people get about a place - even if they witness nothing paranormal. Our understanding of space time continuum just isn't developed enough to fully understand the picture, or our place in the universe. When we bring in the theory developed by Einstein of alternate dimensions or existences existing within the same space/time continuum we may be able to put more sense into many paranormal experiences. If our consciousness really exists as a seperate entity, then perhaps it exists on more than one level or dimension, just that we are unaware of the higher levels due to the perceptions of our senses and our brains. In dying I suppose it's possible that our consciousness moves to another dimension or plane of existence, which actually exists within our own (earthly/physical) space time continuum, and as such can occasionally be glimpsed here.

It's well known that in psychometry, sensitives can gain an insight into the past history of an object by touching it. Police use psychics like these quite often in the United States, so on some level an impression must be left on everything. I still think that the concept of time plays a vital part in the whole puzzle, but haven't quite figured out how yet.

6th

Kernel wrote:

Oh right, that's interesting, I didn't know that you had psychic abilities. Have you seen many spirits, or would you see them on a day to day basis for example? I know of people who seem to attract these kinds of phenomenon in their lives, which must be pretty wierd really.

I get it alot that i dont seem like a very "spiritual" person, infact i only "came out" as it were to my family a couple of weeks ago about my interest in the paranormal, only to find out that mone of my sisters has had experiences too though not to the extreme i have.

I dont see spirits on a daily basis, but i am aware of spirits often enough. I count my noteable experiences as 21 now. All positive except for 2. I take it as a very natural thing and i am very grateful to whoever or whatever gave me the ability to experience what i do.

I will have my website up and running soon which will detail my experiences to date.

6th

Kernel

dublin6th wrote:

I get it alot that i dont seem like a very "spiritual" person, infact i only "came out" as it were to my family a couple of weeks ago about my interest in the paranormal, only to find out that mone of my sisters has had experiences too though not to the extreme i have.

I dont see spirits on a daily basis, but i am aware of spirits often enough. I count my noteable experiences as 21 now. All positive except for 2. I take it as a very natural thing and i am very grateful to whoever or whatever gave me the ability to experience what i do.

I will have my website up and running soon which will detail my experiences to date.

6th

Well, looking forward to the website, and, I have to ask, what were the two negative experiences?