Learner Drivers- Love or Hate em?

Sleipnir

We're all learner drivers all of the time.

69 mustang

Enygma wrote:

Actually I've seen some crazy/suicidal driving by Latvians and Poles.

A friend of mine goes to Poland regularly and says the standard of driving there is frightening. I've never seen any Africans driving like lunatics.

I have lots of them. The difference is when the Eastern guys do it its skillfully dangerous and you've got to remember they are left hand drive which is not easy on our roads.
But the Africans can surprise the best of us saw one driving down a footpath all 4 wheels on at a school then passed a cop car and yes he got her.
But I'd put most of them down as just not knowing the European rules. Am glad the written test came in.

69 mustang

Enygma wrote:

[Judging how good a driver someone is by a sticker on the rear window is really just stupid and ignorant. Judge them on how well they drive.]

I agreed with all your points but knocking hummer is just stupid and ignorant.

Big Nelly

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I once rear ended a Skoda Octavia from Poland.

So your making the point that not only crap drivers are from Africa/Poland because you are? also your point makes no sense....just becasue you decided to drive into someone and they said f**k all to you you think they are good drivers? sure the only reason she prob said nothing was because she had no tax/insurance and if she had to follow you up then it would mean more trouble for her........also I have seen before plenty of Irish driver leave something if no damage done to there car.....one such thing was a friend of mine, girl, hit some ice and end up hitting this car.....no damage to his.....she hit tow bar on his car but she broke off bumper on his.....he got out....made sure she was ok.....she was about to give insurance and he said no point and went on his way......doesnt matter who or where someone if from....if you hit them and they want to be a *****r then they will be!!

Anyway read back....was making a point that I see alot of this from African/Eastern European drivers and f**k all is been done about it.....I never said that Irish drivers are angels....I know the short comings of Irish drivers and have seen this at first hand....the cases I mention are the most recent I have seen on the road....I drive alot on the N3 and if you want to see bad driving take a trip down that road and it aint just African/Europen.....we have all races and they are all over the shop!! its multi cutural crap driving!!

iregk

I think learner drivers get far too much stick on the roads. Drivers in Ireland are arrogant in general and we tend to forget that we were all once learner drivers. As soon as the test is passed and the L's come off we tend to forget all about them and start cursing L drivers.

Having said that I think the driving situation in this country is woeful. I'm all for 3 levels of driving. P, L and Full. Basically I think the P (provisional) plates should be done as an extra curricular part of the leaving cert. Anyone who does the leaving cert learns about the rules of the road and general driving manner. Written test as well. After getting your P plate you should not be allowed on the road without a fully qualified driver.

After say 6months as a P you move onto an L plate where by now you should be competent to drive on your own while you wait for your test to come up. Pass your test and your a fully qualified driver.

I also think the driving test should be made harder. Its a joke! My hill start wasn't even on a hill!!!! It is far too easy in my opinion and should be more consistent, however that’s a whole other days argument.

As well as all that I also think there should be grading of cars as there is in bikes. Have to drive a 125cc for 2 years before anything else. Makes perfect sense so why not with cars? I know insurance companies say they wont quite a 19y/o on anything over a 1.4 but what’s to stop them putting an exhaust, induction kit, sports rom etc... into a 1.4? Police need to come down heavily on this type of thing and keep inexperienced drivers out of cars that are too powerful for them. Get a car and up to say 23 or 25 you have to stick to a certain power output. Go over that and you loose your licence. How many times have you heard on the news single car crash. In other words horsing it over a windy road and lost it!

That’s my 2 cents anyway (suddenly with the euro that doesn't sound so american anymore) take it or leave as you see fit.

yom 1

I had my very first lesson last saturday and I think it went very well. I was very nervous about it but my instructor put me completely at ease. I only stalled the car twice - once was at the very start so understandable, but the only other time was as I was approaching a roundabout. There was a car right up my arse, as he had been for about a minute at this stage, and I felt under alot of pressure to get it right. But nervousness took over and I stalled, which made me feel crap because I thought I had been doing well.

My point is simply that I would have been fine in this situation(at a roundabout as I had been through 3 already) if he hadn't stuck his car up my arse and in doing so make me feel very uncomfortable and nervous. I just think it is stupid to put a learner driver under this type of pressure as it well inevitably cause the learner driver to make mistakes which could cause accidents

FoXXy

cregser wrote:

I tend to stall whenever something new happens - like when I'm accelerating onto the roundabout and someone appears on my left and just tears onto it, or when you look in you rear mirror and see G A R D A :eek:

hehehe yup thats my thing too.. its cos u havent got time to think bout wot ur sposed to b doing! my newest thing tho is when i'm approaching lights and jus as ur dropping gears they go green so i get all confuddled wit wot gear i'm sposed to b at! apart from that i think i got the jist of it

FoXXy

Stark wrote:

All well and good, but most learner drivers stall because they're nervous. Working out the technique in a parking lot is fine, but learning how to start the car smoothly and confidently in a heated traffic situation takes another level of skill.

this seems to be the one place im going wrong hence being told to only think of myself on the road only in the sense that if i watch wot some guy is doing on my bumper i'll only mess up. i was told that if my cars hit from behind it their fault insurance wise so... in the end they's only gonna end up doing themselves damage.

to make sure i had it right tho, i took another lesson wit my instructor on the road, n he sed i was doing great, i have a grasp of everything.. jus need to work on the nerves n thats it

vibe666

Stark wrote:

There are plenty of other countries that allow learner drivers on the road.

er, no there isn't. well, with the possible exception of the odd place like india and maybe bangladesh.

I'm originally from the UK, and whenever I tell any non-irish visitors that learners are allowed on the roads unaccompanied they tend to just stare at me in disbelief.

I have plenty of experience driving (12 years driving in 7 different countries), and of learners as my girlfriend is currently learning with a combination of me taking her out and a professional driving instructor to teach her the proper way of doing things on the irish roads that I might not be 100% on the absolute correctness of what to do as the law stands today in Ireland (there's plenty of things me and her instructor disagree on, but that's another story).

Generally though, I'm confident in saying that the general level of driving skill in Ireland is absolutely abysmal compared to other european countries, and it's by no means restricted to learners at all. I've spoken to plenty of people with similar driving experience to myself and my opinion is generally shared by those with plenty of driving experience.

the level of ignorance and disdain towards fellow road users in Ireland is totally unequalled in my experience even by places like Londan, and I'd take 2 hours of driving in the London rush hour over one hour here any day.

Driving with my g/f only enforces this opinion, as she gets beeped at, cut up and tailgated by all and sundry, and I swear to god the next person that does it and stops at the lights behind us is going to have to deal with me getting out and watch al 6'5" and 21st of me take their keys out of the car and throw them in the nearest ditch before beating them to a bloody pulp.

[/vent]

69 mustang

Anyway read back....was making a point that I see alot of this from African/Eastern European drivers and f**k all is been done about it.....I never said that Irish drivers are angels....I know the short comings of Irish drivers and have seen this at first hand....the cases I mention are the most recent I have seen on the road....I drive alot on the N3 and if you want to see bad driving take a trip down that road and it aint just African/Europen.....we have all races and they are all over the shop!! its multi cutural crap driving!![/QUOTE]

I to would give plenty of leeway to L drivers, just as I would to someone on a mobile while driving.
the cars I'm Most scared of on Irish roads and I know some of you may not like this and I'm not going to go into. Is MH reg Toyota Corollas you just never know what they are going to do and they seem to want to recreate there European holiday by always driving on the right hand lane on the first dual road they find.Which is my next point why the N3 has so many speed cameras I've never seen one of those cars do more than 45mph.

Try this experiment before you knock this.

{I've noticed the worst insult to give a person sitting at the wheel is to tell them they are bad at it. try that one too with a friend }

Sesshoumaru

Big Nelly wrote:

So your making the point that not only crap drivers are from Africa/Poland because you are? also your point makes no sense....just becasue you decided to drive into someone and they said f**k all to you you think they are good drivers? sure the only reason she prob said nothing was because she had no tax/insurance and if she had to follow you up then it would mean more trouble for her........also I have seen before plenty of Irish driver leave something if no damage done to there car.....one such thing was a friend of mine, girl, hit some ice and end up hitting this car.....no damage to his.....she hit tow bar on his car but she broke off bumper on his.....he got out....made sure she was ok.....she was about to give insurance and he said no point and went on his way......doesnt matter who or where someone if from....if you hit them and they want to be a *****r then they will be!!

Anyway read back....was making a point that I see alot of this from African/Eastern European drivers and f**k all is been done about it.....I never said that Irish drivers are angels....I know the short comings of Irish drivers and have seen this at first hand....the cases I mention are the most recent I have seen on the road....I drive alot on the N3 and if you want to see bad driving take a trip down that road and it aint just African/Europen.....we have all races and they are all over the shop!! its multi cutural crap driving!!

No my point was that stereotyping is stupid. Bad drivers are simply bad drivers. There is no logical reason to bring race or nationality into equation at all. If the law is enforced equally and effectively then regardless of nationality or race there won't be a problem. Complain about the Gardai not enforcing traffic legislation and creating an atmosphere of lawnessless on our roads or complain about our politicians who don't seem to have the willpower to sort out our licencing system. But its very counter productive to start labelling any particular group as particularly bad drivers. In my eyes this is an enforcement issue.

Supercell

The main problem here is the waiting time for sitting the test.
Until this becomes weeks or days (or no wait in some EU countries) then we wil have ppl on the road that shouldnt be as they have to wait an unreasonable long time to be tested ..as do the bad drivers...

Slutmonkey57b

Learner drivers AREN'T allowed on the roads without a qualified driver in Ireland - it's just as against the law here as it is in any other country.

The difference is that Irish people couldn't give a **** about the law, or the rules of the road, and do it anyway. And having taken my second driving lesson today, I have to say that the standard of driving from "experienced" drivers and even driving instructors is appalling. I must have gone through about 20 roundabouts during a 2 hour lesson. In all that time 4 (FOUR) fully-qualified drivers actually bothered to indicate their intentions on the roundabout. And this is large, busy roundabouts off the N11, not a pissant painted jobbie. THREE times I had to correct my driving instructor who wanted me to pull out onto the roundabout in front of oncoming traffic. Appalling.

I'm fully in favour of re-testing all drivers at 5 year intervals. I predict we'd see a lot of red faces.

Supercell

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

And having taken my second driving lesson today, I have to say that the standard of driving from "experienced" drivers and even driving instructors is appalling.

You're a really quick learner!! during the second lesson you were correcting everyone else on the road including your instructor! , wish I found it so easy !! :rolleyes:

d4r3n

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Learner drivers AREN'T allowed on the roads without a qualified driver in Ireland - it's just as against the law here as it is in any other country.

WRONG! You can drive alone on your second provisional.

Slutmonkey57b

I didn't say I was a good driver did I? But if a crap learner driver can pick up on minor things like "use your indicator" and "don't drive in front of another car" then it reflects the true state of drivers in this country, don't you think?

KeRbDoG

FoXXy wrote:

I've in the last week gotten myself a shiny new car and i've gone through all the formalities involved i.ie- getting my provisional licence, taxing and insuring the car.. now for the fun bit, to risk myself and the car on the open road!

Learning to drive is scary in its own right and everyone keeps telling me it comes with practice- that you should only worry about urself when ur on the road. My answer to this so far has been that its hard to watch my driving when the car behind me is either riding my bumper or is beeping because i stalled at the lights!?

So my question.. as a learning or experienced driver how much leeway do u allow learner drivers? do you drive at safe distance behind and allow them to make mistakes or do u ignore them and go mental when they mess up?!

We where all learners at one stage in our lifes. I give a learner lots of time and space as I too was once that person Every car Ive ever seen with an L plate has indicated and changed lane correctly - though slowly.
The so called "experanced" drivers do a kind of drift changing lanes, indicators are optional extras. Yes, your meant to use indicators on roundabouts and over taking someone for the sake of it and slowing down on front of them is just feckin annoying!

OLDYELLAR

Love them , Im a learner myself , I used get all flustered and cut out when people drove right up behind me and got narked with me , now when this happens I keep right out to the white line and slow down , If people wanna be a pr*ck to me and cant remember theirself what a daunting experience going on the open road can be , Ill be a prick back.

Other learners make me feel good because I see im not the only person stalling at lights and hesitating where there may be no need to hesitate.

Id love to have the option of having a qualified driver with me at all times , I believe it would makie me a better driver but its just not practical as Im away from home and none of my frends up here have a full license so like most other learners I go it alone .

commited

I dont mind learners at all when they are accompanied. However, the amount of unaccompanied learner drivers out there is worrying.

stevenmu

Does it really make much difference if a learner is accompanied or not, once they get past the very basics ? I don't see how having someone in the car would have helped me when I was one, and I don't see how I could help one now. I suppose there may be a moral support factor to it (which is kinda irrelevant to us huys anyway ) but in general there wouldn't be enough time for someone to intervene and stop a learner doing something stupid, and if there was is grabbing the wheel off them or janking up the handbrake going to be a good idea ? I don't think most full-license drivers are qualified to make that decision, or are even going to be paying enough attention to the situation to know what to do.

commited

Driving is all about experience. Learning the basics is just what it means - basic knowlede of driving - learners will not know correctly how to react to every situation. When I'm in the car with my mates that are learners they do a rediculous amount of things incorrectly. If you feel that fully licensed drivers that you know to aid you, then you would have to get professional lessons.

Ireland is the only european company that allows drivers to buy a car and hop in it and drive it solo with no formal or informal training. I see it everyday - people who shouldnt be on the road who are on the road. This is the purpose of the driving test. Someone feeling that they "know the basics" is not good enough to warrant them the ability to drive solo. End of story.