United Ireland within our lifetime

catholicireland

Does anyone think its going to happin? I think that it will eventually happin at some time but im not sure yet if it will be in my lifetime. I really hope it does though.
At the moment the majority of people want to be part of the UK, but can anyone see this changing? Could you see the british goverment just give it back?
The day this small island is united under one rule will be a great day in the history of Ireland and for all real Irish people.

Thomond Pk

Tyrone are the All-Ireland champions;

what is the fixation with which government empties your pocket?

Diorraing

I have no doubt that it will happen within the next 30-40 years if not sooner. The British stated in the Downing Street Declaration that they had no economic interests in NI. It is nothing but hassle for them. Unionism is the obstacle. They, however, will eventually realise that being part of a United Ireland will also mean being part of The Celtic Tiger : We will soon see that their loyalties lie with the half-crown, not the crown.

mike65

Diorraing wrote:

We will soon see that their loyalties lie with the half-crown, not the crown.

Boom boom!

One matter that should'nt overlooked is the need to make sure the good people of this republic also want and get a united Ireland as opposed to a 32 county Ireland. Many down here would be sceptical of our friends in the North and thier ability to carry on normal life without feeling what would set the day up nicely is a riot/firebombing/beating/speech.

Mike.

BuffyBot

The day this small island is united under one rule will be a great day in the history of Ireland and for all real Irish people.

I've never quite understood this. Because I'm perfectly happy living in my country (which happens to consist of the 26 counties, which make up the Republic of Ireland) I'm not one of the "real Irish people"?

Maskhadov

We will soon see that their loyalties lie with the half-crown, not the crown.

I dont get it.

As for a 32 county one state Ireland. Im all for it if we dont have the violance, political instability, hatred, tax rises, higher unemployment etc. It all sounds like too much hard work for me

daveirl

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mike65

Half-crown

Its an age thing!

Mike.

horseflesh

catholicireland wrote:

Does anyone think its going to happin? I think that it will eventually happin at some time but im not sure yet if it will be in my lifetime. I really hope it does though.

Why??
Apart from some romantic notion, in the "real world" why would you be so keen?
Who would benefit?

horseflesh

horseflesh wrote:

Why??
Apart from some romantic notion, in the "real world" why would you be so keen?
Who would benefit?

But why does everything have to be measured up like some balance sheet, there are things which are not the proper subject of a cost benefit analysis surely. For me, national reunification is much more important than some grubby little stuff that Eddie Hobbs foams at the mouth about like the cost of petcare.

murphaph

Deleted User wrote:

But why does everything have to be measured up like some balance sheet

Because in the real world that's how it is.

Deleted User wrote:

there are things which are not the proper subject of a cost benefit analysis surely.

Is that because they would fail miserably in that cost/benefit analysis though?

Deleted User wrote:

For me, national reunification is much more important than some grubby little stuff that Eddie Hobbs foams at the mouth about like the cost of petcare.

Name the last time Ireland was a single political entity. (Hint-it was under british rule). Now, name the time before that......hmmm, King this and tribe leader that.....Some people think it was for a brief period in the 11th century, but nobody can say for certain. Essentially this island has always been divided politically so reunification just doesn't come into it.

RobVanDamager2

I'm definitely moving out of this country if this ever happens. I'd rather live in baghdad than a united Ireland.......

murphaph

murphaph wrote:

Because in the real world that's how it is.

No it's not, in the materialistic world that's how it is.

murphaph wrote:

Is that because they would fail miserably in that cost/benefit analysis though?

No. It's just that the desire to unite the island cannot be understood through a prism of euros and cents.

murphaph wrote:

Essentially this island has always been divided politically so reunification just doesn't come into it.

I disagree, as do the hundreds of thousands in the 6 counties who call themselves 'Irish' and not 'Ulsterish'.

bonkey

catholicireland wrote:

The day this small island is united under one rule will be a great day in the history of Ireland and for all real Irish people.

And if the non-real Irish people decide to take up arms and fight for re-seperation? You'll accept a return to violence as an acceptable price to pay, as non-real Irish people engage in a terrorist war of seperation against the reals?

I happen to believe the real Irish people are the ones who deal in the reality of today, and not those who indulge in romantic dreams of what could be and suggest not only that they should be but that they are what any "real" Irish person wants.

jc

biko

RobVanDamager2 wrote:

I'd rather live in baghdad than a united Ireland.......

Well, it'll be a long time before a UI happens, if at all, but if those are your feelings, why not jump the gun and move next week?

bonkey

bonkey wrote:

I happen to believe the real Irish people are the ones who deal in the reality of today, and not those who indulge in romantic dreams of what could be and suggest not only that they should be but that they are what any "real" Irish person wants.

So first of all Horseface and Murphaph believe those of us who would like to see reunification occur are not living in the real world.

And now bonkey you raise the suggestion that we are not real Irish people?

I like to think of myself as a very real Irish person in a very real world and I would like to see the country united. I appreciate that there may be cogent arguments against it, but surely 'get real' is not one of them.

billy the squid

Deleted User wrote:

But why does everything have to be measured up like some balance sheet,

Ideologies don't pay my rent, I can't give national pride to my landlord every week. Merging northern Ireland with the republic would be an economical disaster. I would rather have a job in a partitioned ireland than be unemployed in a united one.

For me, national reunification is much more important than some grubby little stuff that Eddie Hobbs foams at the mouth about like the cost of petcare.

Supporting my self and my family would be higher on my list of priorities than a united ireland. I have nothing to gain from a united ireland. what happens after my lifetime is of little interest to me as there will be nothing I can do about it when it happens.

billy the squid

billy the squid wrote:

Ideologies don't pay my rent, I can't give national pride to my landlord every week.

I appreciate that. But that doesn't mean that the desire for a united Ireland is nonsense, just that you have different priorities. I couldn't imagine a life where all I cared about was what was in my wallet. And surely even you have basic desires that you can't rationalise in terms of money - pride in seeing your county do well in sport, religious belief, all the albums of a particular band etc. etc. There are thousands of aspects of life that could be dismissed with the argument that they don't put bread on the table, but that does not make them any less important to many people.

billy the squid

Deleted User wrote:

I appreciate that. But that doesn't mean that the desire for a united Ireland is nonsense, just that you have different priorities. I couldn't imagine a life where all I cared about was what was in my wallet. And surely even you have basic desires that you can't rationalise in terms of money - pride in seeing your county do well in sport, religious belief, all the albums of a particular band etc. etc. There are thousands of aspects of life that could be dismissed with the argument that they don't put bread on the table, but that does not make them any less important to many people.

What is in my wallet is not the only thing that I care about, but taking on the economic burdon would affect what is in my wallet. and this is one of the reasons I would not be in favour of merging Northern Ireland and the Republic.

I wouldnt consider the political status of northern ireland as a basic desire. I dont need northern ireland for my survival.

Incidently-Fiscally theres another side to the coin here being ignored and it shouldnt be.

For talks sake if there was a united Ireland in the morning the resulting cost of it would be greatly borne by the E.U I think.
Certainly our GDP per head would fall enough to make us qualify for net reception of funds rather than the direction we are going in at the moment ie towards net contributions.
I'm not entirely convinced of the arguments that taxes would have to significantly rise.

Surely the main difference between North and south is in the area of health and social services and these are subject in the south to major ineffeciencies-something that it would be imperative to have fixed were there to be reunification.
We wouldnt lose the attractiveness that we have at present for foreign direct investment by job creating foreign companies unless we were going to lose it anyway.
So that factor would be neutral to reunification.

Maskhadov

If you take away all the violance stuff and both parts of the island wanted to become one the issues boil down to money or the lack of it.

The republic of Ireland needs €140billion Euro over the next 15 years (from 2007) just to bring it in line with the rest of western Europe. How much does the north need when its GDP 40% is lower than the rest of the United Kingdom. The Brits havent spent a penny on the north since the 60's and I dont want to be the one picking up the bill.



I get the 1/2 crown thing now

Were going to have to pay for the 6 counties with a big tax rise and what exactly do we get in return ???

catholicireland

I'd rather live in baghdad than a united Ireland.......

explain why?

By the way, the majority of Irish people are FOR a united Ireland, so I think the Irish Goverment should try and achieve this if they say they represent us.

murphaph

catholicireland wrote:

By the way, the majority of Irish people are FOR a united Ireland

To use your own expression, explain why? (and more importantly, how do you know, have you asked everyone?)

black_jack

catholicireland wrote:

explain why?

By the way, the majority of Irish people are FOR a united Ireland, so I think the Irish Goverment should try and achieve this if they say they represent us.

Yeah where, did you speak to everyone. You'll find that the majority of southerns renounced our historic claim on the north in the good friday agreement referendum.

So and this is a good point. Why? Seriously? What is the point? Theres peace of a sorts, why push the issue? What benefits will we recieve? what freedoms do the people of the north not have that demand that the historic renunification of Ireland as a united Ireland again.

Spare me some historical bollocks about some spurious point about it being beyond tangible, or financial reasons. Right now, theres no tangible difference between here and the north, and the financial well, ever paid for a pint in a pub in kerry or a pub in dublin? Theres inequalities. So tell me, how and what are the benefits of a united ireland. Other than the warm mushy feeling in your pants.

Hang on. While we're at it exactly was there a unitied whole, unified country, under one leader. Honestly, cause hey even in the time of high kinds Boru et all had at best some control over some of the Isle and scant control of the rest.

It's pretty much luxemburg wistfully wishing to be a nation once again with Portgual.

We never really were a unitied Ireland, really ever. Hang on "a nation once again?"


YOU MEAN THE WOLFE TONES HAVE BEEN LYING ALL THIS TIME!!!!!

daveirl

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Diorraing

RobVanDamager2 wrote:

. I'd rather live in baghdad than a united Ireland.......

Good riddance. What is the point of a UI? Well, what was the point of gaining independance from the Brits in the first place - please answer that all you UI sceptics. It wasn't gained because we'd be better off financially, it was gained because the Irish people are a proud race who would never lie down to oppression from any other country. I'm not in favour of uniting Ireland through violence but when (and I emphasise when) there will be a nationalist majority, I will be first to welcome EVERYONE in the 6 counties. I detest the attitude of some southerners who think that it was ok for the south to get independance in 1922, but when the north wants in, we wont let them because we're too stingy to part with a few bob. If a majority seeks it, they have every right to join us!

Diorraing

black_jack wrote:

Hang on. While we're at it exactly was there a unitied whole, unified country, under one leader. Honestly, cause hey even in the time of high kinds Boru et all had at best some control over some of the Isle and scant control of the rest.

At least Boru and the rest of them were IRISH and not oppressive Brits who decided they'd take peoples rights away from them on the grounds of race and religion. If my memory serves me correctly, Hugh O'Neill and Red Hugh O'Donnell managed to muster an All-Ireland force, Wolfe Tone established a certain All-Ireland body known as "The United Irishmen". It is true that a United Ireland wasn't always a concept, but a united Italy wasn't heard of until the start of last century, Germany until Bismark's reign (1870). Does that make the unity of these countries illegitimate? The concept of a UI is a lot older than the unity of most other countries.

bonkey

Deleted User wrote:

And now bonkey you raise the suggestion that we are not real Irish people?

You see a problem with this, but not with yoru own suggestion that only those who support a United Ireland are "real" Irish?

I like to think of myself as a very real Irish person in a very real world and I would like to see the country united. I appreciate that there may be cogent arguments against it, but surely 'get real' is not one of them.

I think "Get Real" is very much one of them. The political reunification of Ireland, without the genocide of unionists, would almost certainly lead to a return to the days of violence and terrorism.

jc

black_jack

black_jack wrote:

Other than the warm mushy feeling in your pants.

Hmmm, guess it's the feeling some here get when they find 50 cents in the gutter.

Look, there's no point having a big argument over it. Those of us who want reunification can continue with our wants, and those who believe we only exist to find a mate/ procreate/ build shelter/ provide for the offspring can go on their happy way too in the pursuit of baser needs. As I said above, people prioritise differently.

bonkey

bonkey wrote:

You see a problem with this, but not with yoru own suggestion that only those who support a United Ireland are "real" Irish?

I never made that point at all, and please don't attribute to me an argument I never put forward. Read the posts before mine, I was rejecting the notion that 'reality' meant rejecting reunification. I suspect I'm as real as you, I breath, I exist, I can't be more real, and I'm Irish. But I certainly never said those who oppose reunification were not real Irish people.

bonkey

Deleted User wrote:

I never made that point at all, and please don't attribute to me an argument I never put forward.

My apologies. CatholicIreland put it forward, but you still appear to have no issue with it, seeing as you've felt the need to object to other uses of the term, but not his/hers.

jc