Pat Rabbitte supporting private schools...

...to avoid any possibility of thread hijacking or going off on tangents.

Remember that whole story about Pat sending the kids off to some fee paying private school?

Did he ever explain this one away?

And how do those who have socialist leanings within the Labour Party (there MUST be one or two, even if I haven't heard them) feel about it?

Zombrex

He simply said the Labour party has no policy of opposing or trying to close down private schools, which as far as I know is true ... i think you are confusing the Labour party with the Communist party

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2004/05/24/story332980353.asp

In fact Willie O'Dea, who made the comments, was critised by all sectors including member of his own party for taking the run up to the 2004 election to a personal level by attacking the personal family decisions of the Rabbitte family. People also pointed out that it was a grind school for the final year of the leaving cert, hardly 6 years of private schools.

http://www.ireland.com/focus/euroelection2004/pathtopolls/1084325406092.html

Personally, as someone who believes in social democracy and votes Labour a lot of the time, I have no problem with it. The Labour party don't object to the existance of fee paying schools (AFAIK), they just don't think they should get wads of cash from the government, and that public schools should be brought up to a high level so that everyone can get a decent education. But they aren't in government so it is kinda hard to do that at the moment. It would be different if Labour were running the public schools into the ground while sending their kids off to safe nice private schools, but it is Fianna Fail who are doing that.

Would Rabbitte be critised if he sent his mother to a private hospital for a heart operation rather than leave her sitting in a hall way for 2 days being looked after by the abismal health service. He can't change the health service or the education service, he isn't in government, so should his family have to suffer cause FF have rightly f**ked up?

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

He simply said the Labour party has no policy of opposing or trying to close down private schools

Well, I understand that Labour had a policy of refusing funding for fee paying grind schools as you point out, but of course this policy was not pursued in government. In addition, Labour's own education spokesperson slammed grind schools as contributing to educational apartheid.

Either way, surely pointing out striking hypocrisy by a party leader is, by definition, going to be personal.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Either way, surely pointing out striking hypocrisy by a party leader is, by definition, going to be personal.

I am still not sure where the hypocrisy is coming from. Grind schools do lead to an inbalance in leaving cert results where rich people can get better education than people who can only afford to go to public schools. The answer to that is to put more public money into public schools and to not fund fee paying schools which don't need the public money. I don't see how see how Rabbitte sending his kid to a grind school because of the current state of the public schools (which he has little control over) is hypocrisy.

The labour party is not saying grind schools are evil or that they should be banned, just that they should be unnecessary because the public school system should be at a higher standard. They don't want to force everyone, including the rich, to have a crappy education, they want everyone including the poor to have an education to the highest standard. I would have thought that would have been very clear.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

They don't want to force everyone, including the rich, to have a crappy education, they want everyone including the poor to have an education to the highest standard. I would have thought that would have been very clear.

Aha, it's that logic that after the red revolution everyone will be equally rich, as opposed to equally poor!

Why did they not carry through their own stated policy last time out then? Perhaps, if they had decided to put words into action they could have affected what you allege is a system in crisis. It's easy to do nothing, and then knock it.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Aha, it's that logic that after the red revolution everyone will be equally rich, as opposed to equally poor!

Like I said, think you are mixing up the Labour party with the Communist party :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote:

Why did they not carry through their own stated policy last time out then?

You will have to ask Niamh Bhreathnach, who hasn't been a TD since 1997

Deleted User wrote:

It's easy to do nothing, and then knock it.

Like I said, they are not attacking fee paying schools. Plus last time out as in the mid-90s? Rabbitte has been party head since 2002.

[Jackass]

My god conor...are you on a personal crusade or something? Isn't this a bit of "sick budgies and dogwalking" :rolleyes:

Talk about a non-story...

Culchie

I think Conor should declare his interests.

Fecking PJ Mara would be proud of him the way he is blowing FF's trumpet.

New FF tactic, infiltrate boards.ie ?

Culchie

Culchie wrote:

I think Conor should declare his interests.

Fecking PJ Mara would be proud of him the way he is blowing FF's trumpet.

Aha, do I detect McCarthyism? One can be any shade of politics here as long as one hates FF, but if there's anything less than pure hatred we must know your details...

My interests are in good Government. I have pointed out before that I have voted FF. I presume each poster here will reciprocate and tell me the person or party they voted for last time out?

Zombrex

I think people are wondering why you are dragging up a pretty much non-story from a year ago and then proceeding to rather aimlessly attack the Labour party with comments comparing them to the Russian communist party ...

The explination for why Rabbitte sent his kids to a grind school are pretty well established. If you think they were hypocritical thats fine, I doubt you are a Labour voter anyway so I don't think they will be sorry to lose you. But the answers to the two questions you asked

Did he explain it?

How do labour supporters feel?

have been pretty much ignored and you seem to just want to go on bad mouthing the Labour party. Which again is fine, but it isn't much of a discussion ...

Culchie

McCarthyism ? .... Don't pat yourself on your head too hard now.

I think you making things too complicated, or trying to impress with your over cleverness.

This country is ran by a bunch of jokers with their own vested interests at heart.

The country is too small to have political parties.

They should all get together, cut out all the crap and get stuff sorted. There is sod all difference of policies between them all anyway, they all been in bed with one or the other over the last 20 years or so ...no big deal.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

comments comparing them to the Russian communist party ...

Huh?

Come again?

Wha'?

I'm not trying to be smart, but I would invite you to read the first and second posts on the thread, and perhaps let us know who cam up with that whole communist angle. Please don't foist your points on me, and then criticise me for them!!

Culchie

Culchie wrote:

McCarthyism ? .... Don't pat yourself on your head too hard now.

I think you making things too complicated, or trying to impress with your over cleverness.

This country is ran by a bunch of jokers with their own vested interests at heart.

The country is too small to have political parties.

They should all get together, cut out all the crap and get stuff sorted. There is sod all difference of policies between them all anyway, they all been in bed with one or the other over the last 20 years or so ...no big deal.

I take it you declined my invite to declare your own interest then.

Hate to make things complicated or try 'over cleverness (sic)', but isn't there a line somewhere about sauce for the goose being sauce for the gander and all that?

Btw, I don't disagree with some of your last paragraph.

Culchie

Deleted User wrote:

My interests are in good Government. I have pointed out before that I have voted FF. I presume each poster here will reciprocate and tell me the person or party they voted for last time out?

You just don't get it do you?

It's not a football team, we don't have to support them for life and put down the opposition all the time, regardless if they have a better team at the moment.

I vote for whoever has done the most work in my constituency, shown some bit of imagination, and looks like the best guy/girl to be put into the Dail, regardless of the colour of their frilly rosette.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Huh?

Come again?

Wha'?

I'm not trying to be smart, but I would invite you to read the first and second posts on the thread, and perhaps let us know who cam up with that whole communist angle. Please don't foist your points on me, and then criticise me for them!!

You are right, I said I think you are confusing the Labour party with the Communist party, to which you tried to re-justify your statement implying that in fact you do think they are pretty similar. You then followed that up with -

"Aha, it's that logic that after the red revolution everyone will be equally rich, as opposed to equally poor!"

which pretty much implies that Labour being in government would be a red revolution (ie a Communist one)

So I will gladly retract what I said if you will clarify that you do not in fact believe that the Labour party is anything like the Communist party, and that you agree Labour has no policy to close down or even oppose the running of private fee paying schools.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

So I will gladly retract what I said if you will clarify that you do not in fact believe that the Labour party is anything like the Communist party

Of cours the Labour Party is nothing like the Communist Party. One has principles and real Socialists brimming with ideals, the other was once led by capitalist pin up Mr. Dick Spring!

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Of cours the Labour Party is nothing like the Communist Party. One has principles and real Socialists brimming with ideals, the other was once led by capitalist pin up Mr. Dick Spring!

And we are back to aimless attacks ... sigh ...

Culchie

Deleted User wrote:

Of cours the Labour Party is nothing like the Communist Party. One has principles and real Socialists brimming with ideals, the other was once led by capitalist pin up Mr. Dick Spring!

At least both parties have leaders.

Ray777

Deleted User wrote:

Of cours the Labour Party is nothing like the Communist Party. One has principles and real Socialists brimming with ideals, the other was once led by capitalist pin up Mr. Dick Spring!

The unfortunate habit of passing pointless snide digs as an alternative to actually discussing the issues, must be a Fianna Fáil thing. Bertie Ahern seems to do it quite a lot, particularly when faced with somebody who is intellectually superior. For example, every time the Socialist TD, Joe Higgins raises a question in the Dail, Bertie's reply is littered with snide little comments, under his breath. I can't help but feel that if he had even half the intelligence or parliamentary ability of Higgins, he wouldn't need to descend to such a level. And of course, Conor Lenihan's 'Kebabs' jibe was another example of that phenomenon. Of course, there are Fianna Fail TDs who do have the intellectual capacity to debate without resorting to making attempts to discredit their opponent. Unfortunately though, they are rarely seen.

Ray777

Ray777 wrote:

intellectually superior.

From communism to the Aryan race! We've run the gamut of European politics. It now just remains for you to say that FF fans have a 'flawed pedigree' and this thread will have covered it all.

I did find the link between Joe Higgins and 'intellectual' quite good. I certainly wouldn't question his integrity or his ability. But does one need to be intellectual when one's sole legacy will be bins in Finglas?

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

From communism to the Aryan race! We've run the gamut of European politics. It now just remains for you to say that FF fans have a 'flawed pedigree' and this thread will have covered it all.

I did find the link between Joe Higgins and 'intellectual' quite good. I certainly wouldn't question his integrity or his ability. But does one need to be intellectual when one's sole legacy will be bins in Finglas?

ROFL ... oh my god, how do you not see the irony of that last post :rolleyes:

You did exactly what Ray777 was give out about, ie ignoring the actually issue and making a snide (and rather incorrect and illogical) comment about someone, which is pretty much what you have done in each post in this thread.

BTW if you actually think the only think Higgins has ever done was the bins in Finglas then you know less about politics than I assumed you did.

This is getting all very pointless ... i'm out of here

black_jack

Deleted User wrote:

From communism to the Aryan race!

Um what? FF voters aren't an enthic group. He's talking about the compedence of a group of politicians.

We've run the gamut of European politics. It now just remains for you to say that FF fans have a 'flawed pedigree' and this thread will have covered it all.

I did find the link between Joe Higgins and 'intellectual' quite good. I certainly wouldn't question his integrity or his ability. But does one need to be intellectual when one's sole legacy will be bins in Finglas?

Higgins has done alot more, than the bin tax, he's a bosterous and vocal debator with excellent oratory skills, while the leaders of FF engage in the kind of snide name calling and insidious sniping, more fitting to the backbenches.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

You did exactly what Ray777 was give out about, ie ignoring the actually issue and making a snide (and rather incorrect and illogical) comment about someone

Merely responding in like manner to Ray's snide comment about intellectual superiority and FF, Wicknight, merely responding...

But you're right about the pointless bit. Thread kinda descended into farce, and guess we're all responsible for that.

Ray777

Deleted User wrote:

Merely responding in like manner to Ray's snide comment about intellectual superiority and FF, Wicknight, merely responding...

I think you'll find that there was nothing snide about my comment. On the basis of performance in the Dail, I believe that Bertie Ahern is less intellectually capable than Joe Higgins. Clearly he's a very shrewd political operator, but his talents do not lie in the spoken word - if they did, he wouldn't have any need to resort to snide digs towards his opponents. I never suggested that Fianna Fail are intellectually inferior either...

Deleted User wrote:

I did find the link between Joe Higgins and 'intellectual' quite good. I certainly wouldn't question his integrity or his ability. But does one need to be intellectual when one's sole legacy will be bins in Finglas?

Hmmm... You're not Conor Lenihan, by any chance, are you? Your comment certainly seems to be on the same level as his 'Kebabs' remark.

Ray777

I saw this

Ray777 wrote:

I think you'll find that there was nothing snide about my comment.

and had high hopes.

But then you go and spoil it all by saying

Ray777 wrote:

Your comment certainly seems to be on the same level as his 'Kebabs' remark.

The kebabs remark was unacceptable. Still, a vote for the opposition is a vote for Enda to be leader, and we all know his favourite jokes...