Congrats to the Government...

Zombrex

Cork wrote:

I think that country is in good financial position. The government deserves credit for this.

Well the current government didn't have a lot to do with that, and at the moment it is the only reason the country as a whole is still ticking along generally ok

I never really understand this view that because things are not as bad as they could be because of the left over money of the Celtic Tiger, the government is some how doing a good job?

It is like saying "I don't mind I just got robbed, sure its pay day tomorrow, plenty more where that came from" ...

gandalf

Oh dear you want to give the Government a big slap on the back for taking in more taxes than projected I have no problem with that if we see this being invested wisely for the future of the country.

Unfortunately this government have squandered the chance to better our infrastructure and health service and after a term and a half the health service is in worse condition (I am basing that assertion on personal experience due to a family members illness) and the road network/public transport is in chaos and unable to keep up with the levels of growth.

They have wasted money left right and centre and it has been masked because of the good returns in taxes.

Major overruns on Roads.
Major overrun on Luas.
P-PARS
Abbotstown (along with Irish Watergate)
Electronic Voting with the machines that will probably never be used and are costing more money to store.
Decentralisation, failure both as a concept and implimentation.

I am sure there are many more pathetic failures that this government have overseen but at the moment I cannot be bothered to look them up.

The point I am making Conor is these times, the ones when you are actually making money are the times to invest in the future and make sure when times do go bad we are in a position to ride out that storm. This current mob seem incapable of doing this. Time for a change.

fli

fli wrote:

i for one have had more than enough of them,i have got to the point that i have sold my house and will be emigrating as soon as i get my visa (just a matter of waiting now)

Interesting point you raise.

Maybe a good comparison is to look at emigration figures now and compare and contrast with those the last time a FG/Labour Government got elected, say back in 1985. Surely if things were worse, or as bad as everyone says, the numbers would have gone through the roof since...

billy the squid

is it any wonder the government have more money than they expected. a large proportion of ireland's inflation is because of their actions.

1) privitisation of refuse to companies who charge horrendous fees. And eircom, resulting in one of the worst telecommunications networks in the EU.

2} Massive increases in TV licences and increases in semi state companies' charges, i.e. ESB, Bord Gais, VHI An Post.

The government promised also that the registration fees would not go above 150 irish pounds when they were implemented. they are 750 euros now.

Its a slap in the mouth the government deserves more than a slap on the back.

Culchie

Deleted User wrote:

Interesting point you raise.

Maybe a good comparison is to look at emigration figures now and compare and contrast with those the last time a FG/Labour Government got elected, say back in 1985. Surely if things were worse, or as bad as everyone says, the numbers would have gone through the roof since...

WTF are you talking about?

Congratulations, you are going to get the response you've probably being trying to tease of people, and I'll hold my hands up and apologise in advance, as I'm obviously the weak one, but Conor, you are a knob !

You are impossible to even try and hold any sort of a debate with, you just put your hands around your ears and hum when anyone else is trying to make a point. I think you must be Conor Lenihan.

Sleepy

Ok, I'll give the government their due: fair play for the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban.

Now how the bloody hell have you managed to screw up everything else?

HelterSkelter

fly_agaric wrote:

Our government is doing a great job of running the country Conor74!

/WW mode

NOT!
You can keep your slice of cake. If its a FF cake I'm sure its a very small slice anyway. And it might be poison!

They will probably take 90% of the slice of cake back in tax anyway, do you like eating crumbs?

Culchie

Culchie wrote:

WTF are you talking about?

Congratulations, you are going to get the response you've probably being trying to tease of people, and I'll hold my hands up and apologise in advance, as I'm obviously the weak one, but Conor, you are a knob !

You are impossible to even try and hold any sort of a debate with, you just put your hands around your ears and hum when anyone else is trying to make a point. I think you must be Conor Lenihan.

You honestly consider 'debate' to be three paragraphs of personal abuse? Sorry, I won't get drawn into that one. People will have different opinions, I might not agree with yours but you are entitled to it and I won't get abusive.

Fyi, the emigration one was a response to Fli - he brought up the issue and I was responding to his post.

gandalf

Culchie wrote:

WTF are you talking about?

Congratulations, you are going to get the response you've probably being trying to tease of people, and I'll hold my hands up and apologise in advance, as I'm obviously the weak one, but Conor, you are a knob !

You are impossible to even try and hold any sort of a debate with, you just put your hands around your ears and hum when anyone else is trying to make a point. I think you must be Conor Lenihan.

Culchie, there is a policy of no insults on the politics forum. You are banned for a week.

Zombrex

Sleepy wrote:

Ok, I'll give the government their due: fair play for the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban.

Good point ... I will happily and whole heartly give credit to the government for the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban, two schemes that have worked very very well in my opinion ... credit where credit is due, they just don't deserve any credit for the extra 1 billion in tax revenue

Beruthiel

afaik this includes stamp duty, 10 grand of which I had to shell out for the privilege of buying a house
like it's not hard enough to purchase a house without this stupid tax on top of it

Tomohawk

Conor74, how old were you in 1985? (and yes it is relevant?) Your attempt at comparision of emigration figures is facetious.

I sugguest you start by looking at RTEs "Reeling in the Years" 1980-1983 to gently accustomise yourself to the Irish political landscape at the time. Then I sugguest you take a long hard look at the "Haughey" documentary from early this year and concentrate this time on this mans criminal activities for the same peroid.

"Let them eat cake" indeed...

Tomohawk

The plastic bag levy was a bit of a no-brainer wasn't it. When I was in Germany in 1986, yes nearly 2 decades ago in 1986!! they had this system in their supermarkets.

The smoking ban was another imported idea. With the dearth of political management and leadership skills, that must be why they hire consultants like Monica Leech... :rolleyes:

Has that cake stuck in anyones throat yet?

Beruthiel

Beruthiel wrote:

afaik this includes stamp duty, 10 grand of which I had to shell out for the privilege of buying a house

Ouch.

As a matter of curiosity, had you lost your first time buyer's status or was the house >317k?

murphaph

Conor, you have a very blinkered, almost child like admiration (awestruck) of this present government. They have not done a good job of spending OUR money. They have been in power throughout your beloved 'celtic tiger' yet take one look at a map, try to find ONE complete motorway on that map. You can't-their own National Development Plan 2000-2006 was supposed to deliver motorway on all the inter-urban routes. We are nowhere near that today. This is just one aspect of their broken promises. Bertie NEVER admits he's fcuked up-do you have any idea how annoying that is, to see that bollix standing up in Dail Eireann, justifying the blowing of 130 mil on PPARS for one? Is your family in politics or something?

murphaph

murphaph wrote:

Conor, you have a very blinkered, almost child like admiration (awestruck) of this present government.

Not at all. I freely admit they have made some monumental ****ups, like e-voting and the current PPARS crisis. But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.

murphaph wrote:

Is your family in politics or something?

No. In fact, out of 9 votes in our house, 4 FF, 4 FG and 1 Labour last time out.

murphaph

Deleted User wrote:

But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.

But that 'logic' has two fatal flaws-it assumes the government is directly responsible for the current paper prosperity, and it also implies that things couldn't be a lot better if the country was being run properly. And things should be a lot better given the tax revenue the exchequer has sucked out of us all over the past decade+.

MrJoeSoap

CJhaughey wrote:

Not Joe Soap paying over the odds for stamp duty

Hey! You leave me out of this!

Tomohawk

Originally Posted by Conor74
Not at all. I freely admit they have made some monumental ****ups, like e-voting and the current PPARS crisis. But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.

Judging by your boards.ie profile details Conor74, (born 1974) this puts your age at the time between the ages of 8-13 years old. "On mature recollection", would you care to elaborate on your keen interest in politics for one so young at the time?

Is it the tax on childrens shoes thing again that is seared into you memory or what?

Tomohawk

Tomohawk wrote:

Is it the tax on childrens shoes thing again that is seared into you memory or what?

Pah, let them wear Clarke's...

As the youngest of 7, many of whom emigrated in the 80s, I remember that time well enough. And while I wasn't out earning a crust and am in no position to discuss tax rates etc. etc., I live in an area (rural SW of Ireland) where whole families bailed out, 6 and 7 brothers heading off to work in construction in NY. Noone can tell me there was anything good about that time.

I remember the strikes, the hospital closures, the complete absence of work, emigration, and of course those buzz words that seem to have disappeared from public consciousness, the National Debt. And maybe it was fortuitous, but when FF retook power in 1987, frankly things just gradually seemed to improve.

Despite the myriad crises, I also remember some pretty funky music and great clothes, but guess that's a matter for a different thread...

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

I remember the strikes, the hospital closures, the complete absence of work, emigration, and of course those buzz words that seem to have disappeared from public consciousness, the National Debt. And maybe it was fortuitous, but when FF retook power in 1997, frankly things just gradually seemed to improve.

Er, things had been improving for a while before 1997 ... I remember picking my CAO courses in 1997 and even back then there was a buzz about the IT sector, had been for a few years, and the term Celtic Tiger was being thrown around all over the place. So claiming the Fianna Fail government of 1997 on were responsible is just bad history.

The Irish economy had been growing since 1991, peaking in 1999. Credit where credit due, McGreevy continued the trend, though one could hardly say he was responsible for it. And despite the availablity of create amounts of wealth the Fianna Fail government from 1997 has done appaulingly bad managing it. It is really a national scandle that when we had the money the government wasted so much of it

All Fianna Fail have done is spend the money, they didn't make it.

Sorry sorry sorry, my mistake, that should of course have read 1987.

patzer117

I'm not so sure that all the criticism of the government abusing your average joe is legitimate or true. I'm as certain as everyone else that they've made plenty of mistakes, but some of it is down to people like us too. We, as a nation, are becoming unhealthier, are spending more money on foreign goods and firms (reducing tax revenue) and are not achieving necessary standards of education in some sectors - the reason isn't to do with the government, it's to do with the attitude of your average joe.

I'll give you an example of a recent visit to the hospital where I met a man complaining about the health service. He had been in hospital 4 times that year he said, with heart trouble, and had 3 operations in the past 5 years. None of them had 'cured' him. I kind of felt sorry for him untill i realised just how bloody overweight he was, and asked him was he getting any excercise. his response was 'no, i'm not even working, i'm sitting at home and waiting for the government to pay for some new type of weight reducing operation'.

We're suing more, becoming greedier, there is more criminality, there's more anti-social behaviour than before, the standard of education is being lowered etc. The government is making mistakes, but the way i look at it is, we ourselves are causing some of the problems and they shouldn't need to squander money on lazy, obese and ignorant people who ruin the system for the honest worker and taxpayer.

Credit where credit is due, fair play for bringing in ahead of projections, but also put the blame where the blame is due too, and don't just blame the government.

And before anyone asks, i'm a Fine Gael supporter.

Kernel

Stupid statement tbh. Increased taxation, inflation, economy, increased population etc. will lead to increased tax revenue. Hardly something to comend the government on - all you FF and PD sycophants... sad.

As for stamp duty? Not fair either, but as our Fuhrer Eddie Hobbes (one of the only sensible and intelligent public speakers in the country) would tell you, if the government takes the stamp duty away, the property developers would just put the prices up in accordance.

All parties in Ireland are ****e, bring on the revolution please, we are ready.

Thomond Pk

Deleted User wrote:

Sorry sorry sorry, my mistake, that should of course have read 1987.

Did you not mean 1977 when FF bought the election with the abolition of domestic rates and destroyed the tax base. It took 18 years for the country to recover from it; the policy was as we know designed by Haughey and Lynch as always let him away with it.

BuffyBot

I'll give you an example of a recent visit to the hospital where I met a man complaining about the health service. He had been in hospital 4 times that year he said, with heart trouble, and had 3 operations in the past 5 years. None of them had 'cured' him. I kind of felt sorry for him untill i realised just how bloody overweight he was, and asked him was he getting any excercise. his response was 'no, i'm not even working, i'm sitting at home and waiting for the government to pay for some new type of weight reducing operation'.

Which some people, quite legitimately, need. He may have been one of them..

ArthurDent

Deleted User wrote:

Not at all. I freely admit they have made some monumental ****ups, like e-voting and the current PPARS crisis. But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.
QUOTE]
So if we've never had it so good how do you defend the govt backing out of their promise re 0.7% GDP funding to developing world? To me this stands up there as the biggest failure of the lot - never mind the state of our roads schools and helath service - this one is the most unforgivable

Cork

[/QUOTE]So if we've never had it so good how do you defend the govt backing out of their promise re 0.7% GDP funding to developing world? To me this stands up there as the biggest failure of the lot - never mind the state of our roads schools and helath service - this one is the most unforgivable[/QUOTE]

No Irish government has given more in foeiegn aid. The 0.7% will be met.

How much did this country give in foriegn aid back in the 1980s.

There never has been a more successful Irish government. FF brought in the mimimum wage to stop the expliotation of Irish workers. I was talking to people who worked for peanuts in the 80's. People tumbing for lifts. Queues at coin boxes etc.

There has never been a more successful Irish government. The Health system is been reformed and such reform is long overdue.

Yesterdays ERSI report highlights how successful our economy is.

ArthurDent

Cork wrote:

No Irish government has given more in foeiegn aid. The 0.7% will be met.


Yesterdays ERSI report highlights how successful our economy is.[/QUOTE]

And the fact that we are so sucessful now makes it even more despicable that Bertie Ahern breaks his promise to reach 0.7% GDP foreign aid by 2007 and so pardon me if I'm cycnical about believing he will make it by 2010 (or is it 2012)

Cork

ArthurDent wrote:

And the fact that we are so sucessful now makes it even more despicable that Bertie Ahern breaks his promise to reach 0.7% GDP foreign aid by 2007 and so pardon me if I'm cycnical about believing he will make it by 2010 (or is it 2012)

The government has radically increased foriegn aid. It has not reached the 0.7% target. But compared to many countries - we are giving much.

But aid agencies themselves need to stop duplicating effort and wasting resources.

A report last week - highlighted a lack to co-operation between agencies.

Without a strong economy - a 0.7% target would not even be a target.