Celibacy 'turning priesthood gay'

MicraBoy

From todays Irish Independent

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Heterosexual men put off taking the vow, claims new book by outspoken cleric

COMPULSORY celibacy could be turning the priesthood into an increasingly gay profession, it has been claimed.

The rule may be discouraging heterosexual men from becoming priests according to a new book by outspoken cleric, Fr Tony Flannery.

In the book, he emphasises his differences with the Catholic Church's strict teaching on homosexual acts, but says that the apparently high number of gay men among younger priests is nonetheless a matter for concern.

Fr Flannery asks whether the prevalence of gay men is "further evidence of a dysfunctional Church" that could be solved by allowing married priests.

He believes that taking a vow of celibacy in today's society can cause a man's masculinity to be called into question, and this is one of the factors keeping heterosexuals away from the priesthood.

Fr Flannery says that while it is impossible to know for sure how many homosexuals are in the priesthood in Ireland, anecdotal evidence suggests that the percentage among younger priests is higher than among older priests.

He writes: "As I travel the country on mission work many priests of my age group...raise with me their concerns that a great many of the younger priests seem to be homosexual."

He believes there is a perception in the Church "that our seminaries...have a substantial number of students of homosexual orientation."

Fr Flannery's comment, which is carried in his latest book, 'Keeping the Faith: Church of Rome or Church of Christ?', comes as the Vatican gives serious consideration to a document that will reportedly ban seminaries from accepting homosexual candidates.

Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, has also entered the fray.

He has said that a person should not be automatically disbarred from the priesthood simply because he is gay. Fr Flannery acknowledges that discussing this issue can mean being labelled a 'homophobe', but he states: "If the percentage of gays in the priesthood is far higher than the population average, as is the general perception, then I believe we have a situation that needs to be looked at."

He asks: "Is it compulsory celibacy that is discouraging heterosexual men from becoming priests?"

Speaking to The Irish Independent yesterday Fr Flannery, a Redemptorist, said that when he joined his order in 1964, the priesthood was full of "rugged, sports-playing types", but this "type has now almost vanished".

He said that 40 years ago celibacy had much more status than it does today and a person's manhood was not called into question if he decided to become a priest.

"This isn't necessarily the case now", he added.

He said that it "stood to reason" that if married men were allowed into the priesthood, it would attract more heterosexual men.

However, he also stated that this alone wouldn't solve the problem.

He believes that many of the ministerial functions of priests need to be shared with lay people.

David Quinn
Religious Correspondent

InFront

What exactly is the "problem" that is being referred to in this article? Gays in the priesthood is about as much a problem as heterosexuals in the dental profession or Asians in the piano-tuning industry.

One important word that is being forgotten here is celibacy.

And if he cared to look, that priest could find a few "sporting rugged types" in The Dragon on a Saturday night!

ixoy

Indeed, if it's of great concern shouldn't Pope Rat just throw holy water on all new priests? The gay ones will surely be identified when it causes their skin to melt...

merritt

Ha! Watch the number of recruits plummet further if they try weeding out the gays!

Anyway, this might be a blessing in disguise (ha ha) if it makes at least some closeted inexperienced young man cop himself on sooner rather than later. Having lived in Maynooth for quite a while, I'm so fed up of these young gay guys fooling themselves so very profoundly about their 'vocation' when really they're just too scared of mammy and society to be themselves.

Be a priest - no problem - but make sure that you're not just fooling yourself.

Hmm_Messiah

I was in a seminary (great fun tbh)

And last year I met a guy, who happened to be ina seminary; a gay guy. Then he mentioned some people and I knew of the names, also ina seminary , all gay.

Of those I know not one of them joined becuase they were scared of mammy, or society or folling themselve.

I am sure some hadn't it all worked out, but how is that unusual at 17 or 18.

Its not a cowardly thing to choose to join a seminary, to let go of all the things that means letting go of. And when I was 17 it was the opposite of "being scared of society" to tell your peers, actually I'm joining a monastery for the rest of my life.

I "liked" boys before I joined, but then I liked girls too, and there were other "traits" that were unconventional. Why would wondering if I was gay stop me making choices on a "vocation", talking vows meant it didn't matter if I liked sheep, I was hgonna be abstaining like .

I don't know about those priest who **** around; or those woth sexual disorders. I have a little knowledge of some people who join to be priests and are gay.; what you wrote describe none of them, they all retain a morality, a ethical view, a sensitivity which easily explains their attraction to the priesthood as being without the alterior motive of closeting themselves.

I think its crazy for any teen to start commit themselves to a life of denial; whatever the theoligcal/philosophical arguments for chastity etc, to me it seems an over emphasis on the "animal nature" which must be controlled, but instead limits an experience of life at its fullest .

Of course I could of been attracted to the dress-like clothes (i.e. make keanu reeves iconic but dressing himm in a flash soutane)

Its a terrible pity the RC has trapped itself by basing belief on legacy, with no understanding of change, because when you remove the worse parts of t, it remains a unique imaginative plan for living.

I mean, Christmas still gets to me, That a God described as powerful, supreme, vengeful etc etc stepped down from his divinity to be born in a shed. As myth goes its pretty darn impressive (and strangely earthbased for the occultist out there)

merritt

Indeed. So why did you leave? Did you 'cop on' to the importance and healthiness of recognising how your sexuality is a great part of your identity?

As you rightly say, people don't have it worked out at 17 or 18. With confusion about sexuality, life direction, acceptance and role, is it not madness to enter an arena where honest discussion of sexuality is pretty low down on the agenda?

I'm kinda passionate about this as I was in an unusual position as a gay man who had access to seminarians for an extended period. It broke my heart to hear young guys who told me how they thought they couldn't tell anyone that they were gay so choosing to be in the priesthood was a neat option as they could legitimately not have a wife and not be asked questions. All of these guys were fantastically decent lads whose generosity and caring natures could be better served in other roles in society without the psychological strain of having to hide behind a collar.

So, I wonder if all the guys you mention in the seminary who are gay are content with living a secretive double life? I wonder if they could go back to when they were 17, what advice would they give themselves? Especially now that the Vatican seems to be on the verge of a purge.

Hmm_Messiah

i left because my beliefs classed with was acceptable to my order, also they thought i over intellectualised faith (possibly hinting at my abhorence at the rosary as "prayer" and the fact i didn't take eucharist at mass if i could avoid it)

i have no memory of sexuality not beig discussed, in deed we had a class a few days a week where we were encouraged to use sexual words, gestures etc to be comfortable with i dunno.. the reality of life .

You seem to be confusing something, from what you say they chose the collar as something to hide behind, it wasn't sometrhign the church offered to them, the unnatralness of it was somethign they or their society was asking them to deny. He church does not advertise itself as a place to hide away; many many people were sent home to have a greater experience of the world before committing to a diffcult life.

the idea the Vatican is going to have a purge is of little significance if it does happen. and priest with a sound understanding of theology and able to pair it with the realities of life has already disissed the institutional churches interference in individuals sexuality or sexual mores. of course some are reactionary etc like in any walk of life, but no well informed priest sees the churchs interest in sexual morality as useful, most see it as a distraction from social justice,.

there is no conflict in my sexuality and me acceptng ordination, even to bishop. except i'm not chrstian, darn it

merritt

You seem to have had a better experience than I have heard.

Yet, I have yet to meet an out gay seminarian.

I wonder why.

Hmm_Messiah

Hi
I should say I am not denying young men had to lead a secretive double life, but just that they would of lived that life in any case, whether working, in college or a seminary, if that makes sense.

I've never met an out seminarian either, but then I don't quite understand "out" as other people seem to emphasis it. There are out priests and bishops but not exactly displayed on posters etc; in reality the institutional church is like a rock (cool scriptural pun hehe) which can be lifted up to show a diverse network of lives lived in the reality of this world.

One reason seminarians don't out themselves I guess would be society's fault, or "ours". There would be questions of their suitability to minsiter to young people etc etc, the age old ignorance about no connecti0n between sexuality and abuse.

Also I am sure the 60 yr old reared in the teachings of the church would not welcome some one ministering who is "in sin" according to the book. I don't see it as a fault that they can't be out, neither do I see it as a fault that many couldn't accept them if out. Sorry i don't see it as their fault.

I rememeber that priest who used ministered to peple with Aids, who was accused of abusing kids etc, had to go to court. The motivation,, simply that he was gay.

Anyways my original intention was just to nt tar every one with the same brush; its not far to presume the intentions/motivations of another. I didn't enter a seminary to closet myself away, in fact that I liked boys was a concenr of mine (they ask you before you enter)

merritt

I'm sure there are guys who would have lived closeted lives anyway, but similarly, there are guys who saw entering the priesthood as a way to have a respectable life and role while avoiding the perceived difficulties of being gay.

As (Irish) society has become more secular and homosexuality is no longer the huge taboo it was, surely it's no coincidence that fewer guys need to 'take refuge' behind a collar.

As for the seminaries asking you about your sexuality before you enter - it's pretty easy to lie - especially when you've got something to hide! How would they react if you said "yes, I've left my boyfriend in order to realise my vocation. He is very supportive of my decision"?

Fact is that the CC has a wonderfully well developed culture of secrecy founded on fear. While individual priests etc can embrace their sexuality and make it part of them and their priesthood, they do so without the support of their church. Sad, really.