National Day of mourning Announced

Toast

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2001/0912/breaking71.htm

Is your company supporting it?

nore

Isn't this nuts?
This country truly is 51st state of the USA. Did we have mourning when the Americans bombed Libya and Iraq?
It won't make Gateway come back, you know?

Paleface

I think the day of mourning was declared because already an Irish woman and her three year old baby have been named as passengers on one of the planes that hit the twin towers. Surely more Irish casualties will follow.

Its kind of ironic that we treat the biggest terrorist disaster as an excuse for a p.issup.

Can't deny that I won't take advantage of it nonetheless!

nore

you've got to be joking, paleface, a national day of mourning for two dead citizens? how many people die on the roads on an average weekend? at that rate we'd get nothing done.
this is a political gesture - typical of the toadying of the current government. this country has no longer got a distinguishable identity or culture - we are willing to prostitute ourselves to the will of global capitalism - totally embarrassing. how many other countries will follow this lead?

Kix

Nore,

I don't think that there are too many people who share your attitude and who will think that declaring a national day of mourning is bowing down to the god of international capitalism.

A lot of Irish people have been touched directly or indirectly by this tragedy already. With the death toll likely to be in the thousands if not the tens of thousands you may find that you are touched by it. There are strong ties between Ireland and New York and have been for a long time. As I say, it might not mean anything to you but it will mean a lot to a lot of Irish people.

I think that your personal political views preventing you from seeing this tragedy in the same way as the rest of us.

K

Paleface

That remains to be seen.

Im not knocking your point. Im just suggesting that the decision has to have some reason behind it other than trying to suck up to America! What your saying is that Ireland is exploiting this tragic event in order to tighten relations with America. Thats speculative at best.

Doc

Why should we not mourn the deaths of 1000’s of innocent victims? To be honest I don’t see why any of you idiots are complaining! How many of you have family in the U.S. how many people are from the U.S. that are descendants of the Irish?
Even if none of the people where Irish or had any Irish links we should still make a gesture such as this to show our sympathy towards the friends and family’s of this tragedy. Don’t be so ****ing stupid!
:mad:

Bard

Well said Doc! Here here!!!

Paleface

Originally posted by Doc
Why should we not mourn the deaths of 1000’s of innocent victims? To be honest I don’t see why any of you idiots are complaining! How many of you have family in the U.S. how many people are from the U.S. that are descendants of the Irish?
Even if none of the people where Irish or had any Irish links we should still make a gesture such as this to show our sympathy towards the friends and family’s of this tragedy. Don’t be so ****ing stupid!
:mad:

Just want to clear the fact that not once did I complain about the day of mourning and that I feel we should mourn the deaths of others.

jaarius

fu<king hell! there has always got to be some @$$hole who tries to see the bad side of everything. isnt there? i dont know has this attack touched your life but it has touched mine. i think this day is not just for the irish mother and daughter or the thousands who have been killed. this is for us! to show that the govt. does actually give a sh!t. if they are trying to use this as a way of solidifying Irish/US relations then FINE! let them. thats how ppl get through sh!t like... sticking together. henry kisenger (spelling?) said the the US can judge who its friends are by the support they offer. by offer practical and emotional support the govt. has declared that ireland is a friend of the US.

this wont bring gateway back FU<K GATEWAY! they make sh!te computers any and frankly i would rather lose my job than my life.

nore- how many irish in new york? how many in libya or iraq?
the reason for friday is that it is so close to home.

if this is such a big problem why dont you insist on going to work?


j

Hobbes

Originally posted by Doc
Why should we not mourn the deaths of 1000’s of innocent victims?

Because this sort of crap goes on every day in countries around the world and we ignore it. Why is this different? I think while tactless he is making a valid point.

Enygma

The difference is this is an attack on 'the free world' not just America. It's an attack on our way of life.
I suppose it's mostly because the people that died are middle-upper class folks living in the first world. Just like us.
They're people who get up and go to work in the morning, probably living in 'white picket fenced' houses. They are people just like us.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by jaarius
fu<
this wont bring gateway back FU<K GATEWAY! they make sh!te computers any and frankly i would rather lose my job than my life.



if this is such a big problem why dont you insist on going to work?


j

where in gateway you working?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Robbo

Around 44,000,000 claimed to be of Irish decent in the last American census.

By an extension of this, how many Irish ppl claimed to be American in our last census?

Bard

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
I had planed to get arsed on Friday night though.. prior to this day off. I hope the pubs etc are still open.

I work in a pub myself, and I very much doubt we'll be closed on Friday night - which is one of the busiest of the week....

adnans

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
I don’t have an opinion on this subject but I had planed to get arsed on Friday night though.. prior to this day off. I hope the pubs etc are still open.

how can you mourn somebody without the help of alcohol. fear not. i have that lucky feeling that they will be open.

adnans

Relative

Posted bt none

Did we have mourning when the Americans bombed Libya and Iraq?

none has a valid point here. But because it is all so soon after the tragic events in the U.S it does seem a bit tactless.

Posted by jaarius

nore- how many irish in new york? how many in libya or iraq?
the reason for friday is that it is so close to home

Whats the difference between a dead 3year old Iraqi girl and a dead 3year old Irish girl ?

Victor

Originally posted by Relative
Whats the difference between a dead 3year old Iraqi girl and a dead 3year old Irish girl ?

Little, except the Iraqi toddlers (tens of thousands every year) usually die from preventable diseases and those deaths just aren't "news" anymore.

Trojan

Originally posted by Hobbes
Because this sort of crap goes on every day in countries around the world and we ignore it. Why is this different? I think while tactless he is making a valid point.

Hmm, maybe, but it's bloody insulting to those people. There's been a lot of stupid things posted on these boards by people who must be either immature, stupid or, failing that, just pure evil.

Anyway, back to your question: the amount of people that we know makes a difference. That may be unfair to those we don't mourn, but if that wasn't the case we would spend all day every day in mourning for people we don't know. I guess I'm a bit different from most Irish people in that my great grand parents emigrated to Ireland from the US, and not the other way around, but the fact remains that I have countless relations and friends there, and that makes me notice this much more than atrocities happening in places in the middle East and Asia. Sorry.

Also a second point in answer: the sheer scale of this is astounding, it's not even terrorism at this stage, it's sheer mass murder of thousands of innocents. Nothing else in recent historry even comes close to this in scale.

But yes, it is still somewhat valid.

Ronan|Raven

Alas the whole of europe didnt mourn when 30 or so innocent people were blown to bits in omagh......

not on the same scale but none the less...

astrofool

tbh, I think any of these type of days are the wrong thing to be doing right now, and is the thing the terrorists want to see. I don't see how taking a day off will help anyone right now, but rather keeping everything going, in spite of the terrorists best efforts.

The soccer being cancelled being one example, we give them the attention, and they will try to get more. Getting on with things, and strking back at them, would be the better option here

beaver

My opinion: if you don't share it, don't attack me.

This day of mourning is economics. Ireland wants to be seen to be best friends with the US.

Close to home? Did we have a national day of mourning when people were killed in Omagh, IRELAND? No. Do we make a national point of mourning for every victim of the Northern conflict? No.

What about the earthquake in Turkey that killed 12,000 (IIRC)? Don't think so. Maybe the Iraqis that the US blow the **** out of on a regular basis? The Kurds that were used as target practise? But, surely they're lives are as valid as people who work in the WTC, etc.? Nah! What do they have to offer?

A minute's silence or something along that line would have been perfectly in order, to show respect for what has happened. The Government would have been better off using the money that would be collected through the course of a normal working day to help those who have suffered through this.

Instead, we're slowing down the entire workings of the country. Wait... isn't that a bit what the terrorists accomplished in NY and DC? Let's postpone everything and bow to these fuc|<ers, eh?

-Ross

Monty - the one and only

For the main reason that weve been swamped with people checking up on friends and relatives over since it happened...

And for those of you who think its a waste of time, there are 1500 irish nationals missing, and god knows how many injured, its your opinion. Im trying to remain calm and detachted(to perform my duties as mod) as I had family injured in it, so keep it civil.

Paladin

History is written by the victors?

In our case its written by the western world. Have no doubt that September 9th 2001 is probably the most historicaly memorable of my generation, and probably for decades to come there will be a commemoration day for the dead.

Is an international day of mourning on Friday 14th of September apt?

It seems the only argument against it is that there WASNT a day of mourning for other tragedies. No offence to the other tragedies, but they are simply not on the same scale (historically anyway) as this. Natural disasters are a class apart (not intentional murder). The only thing that compares is the genocide in Yugoslavia, but the cold hard truth is that simply does not effect the Western world as much.

Basically I say its better to have one day of mourning than none at all. No matter what way you turn it, this was still an horrific event.

Doc

In my opinion anyone who says we should not have a day of morning for this purely on the bases that we did not have one for something else is being stupid and petty! Maybe we should have had a day of morning for the other incidences people have mentioned maybe not but what dose that have to do with whether we morn the tragic deaths of this huge act of terrorism?

Trojan

Originally posted by Doc
In my opinion anyone who says we should not have a day of morning for this purely on the bases that we did not have one for something else is being stupid and petty! Maybe we should have had a day of morning for the other incidences people have mentioned maybe not but what dose that have to do with whether we morn the tragic deaths of this huge act of terrorism?

At last, somebody here with a bit of cop on.

Played.

Al.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Rattle

Does anyone know if they are having a similar day of mourning in the States?

D-Generate

120 Palastine children have been murdered in the past few months by Israel yet we don't take any notice of this.
1 life is the same as a 1000.... you can't put prices on them.

phaxx

As far as I know there isn't a day of mourning in the US... I'll ask someone else though and see.

Rattle

As far as I can make out, most countries, at least 15 in the EU have declared a day of mourning. Ireland seems to be the only one to have declared a public holiday, it seems to me to be a bit of a mockery if we are the only ones to do that, and yet the pubs open.

Bard

Originally posted by Rattle
Does anyone know if they are having a similar day of mourning in the States?

President Bush is calling it a 'Day of prayer and reflection'.

As it turns out, it's looking like the bar I'm working in will be open tomorrow from 7pm to normal closing time.

PHB

I think a day of mouring would very much be in order, simply because of the sheer scale of this. The WTC were actually destroyed by terrorists and the Pentagon was Hit. Thousands of people lost there lives in one Incident.

In WW2 There were many bombing raids that killed more than the atomic Blast did, however the atomic blast was in one spefic attack. Its on a different scale.
I had relatives and friends in that building that luckily survived the attack, some werent so lucky, and I mourn for their loss.
If you don't then there is something very wrong with you.

R. Daneel Olivaw

It's a significant reason for a day of mourning because:

1. It is the single biggest attack on a western democracy in modern history since World War 2

2. It is the single and only ever largest death-toll on US soil since probably the US civil war in the mid-19th century. There has never been an actual attack on continental US ever. EVER like this.

3. If they can do this to the US, let your imagination go wild to see what could happen to Europe. There are plenty of anti-capitalists here. <cough> Genoa <cough>

The very reason NATO was founded was to solidify the western democracies against attack. There has been unprecendented peace between the EU countries and the US since WW2. This attack is an attack on the peace that has reigned since then.

So why not have a day of mourning? Do you honestly believe that not doing so would be better? You ask why, I ask why not.

DadaKopf

The day of mourning here is a load of Bo||ox. A national day of mourning recognised by the state but without having to shut down the whole country wouldn't be so bad.

I ax: 'why'? We're the only country in Europe taking it to this extreme.

Bah. I just don't like 'days of mourning' anyway.

Monty - the one and only

Originally posted by DadaKopf
The day of mourning here is a load of Bo||ox.
I ax: 'why'? We're the only country in Europe taking it to this extreme.

hmm, keep talking your starting to sound like a bigger muppet all the time...1500 irish nationals are missing most likely dead...your trying to say that has nothing to do with us. I have friends over there who are missing and familiy that has been injured...there are alot of irish people in the same boat.

Please think before you type...

I have been avoiding replying to anything on this subject but your remarks have pissed me off to no end.

Superman

I agree that a day of mourning is good. alot of irish died alot more than omagh


But we should all use this time to ray and think about
how hate breeds hate

Manach

I would agree that a day of Mourning was appropriate to show a national solidarity with the Americans, though I think a Sunday would be a better choice day for it.

Nuair a thiocas an bás ní imeoidh sé folamh.

nore

With respect, Monty, where are you getting this "1500 irish nationals are missing" from? Last I heard it was between 20-40. Don't be so histrionic. In terms of scale (and scale seems to be the main argument here for the day of mourning), as an IRISH tragedy this in on a par with Omagh and a day of mourning was not even mentioned then.

As for Manach's "appropriate to show a national solidarity with the Americans", why would we be showing a national solidarity with the Americans? We are not part of their NATION, nor they of ours. And this comes back to my original point about this country and it's way of defining itself. Why were we the only country to shut down?

What has struck me most in the past couple of days is the lack of honesty in the Irish reaction. Yes, it was an horrific event. And yes it is "close" to home. But "close" is relative. People here seemed to fall over themselves to express how shocked they are, particularly politicians and public figures(I thought Kathryn Holmqvist's "performance" on the "Late Late Show" was particularly phoney). When a person or people are shocked you will not need to be told this to realise it. It will be evident in their behavior. If you were in New York you would notice it in the people. I have been in Ireland the last few days and everything is the same: the chatter in pubs, the mood of friends and family etc. What has been expressed by our leaders on behalf of the country is incongruous with the actual mood and that is DISHONEST. And what it points to is that the national day of mourning was a political outcome because it is increasingly in our political and economic nature to fall over ourselves in front of Americans.

Trojan

Here's a rambling reply to some of you guys who are giving out about the Friday holiday.

Reading the Sunday Business Post yesterday, they came up with this figure: over 40% of Americans have Irish roots.

So can you guys quit whining on in your "it's cool not to like America" bull and face the fact that if we are not the 51st state, then they are the 33rd county or damn close to it. So we don't like the stupid Americans we meet here, so we don't like Bush. Fine, but don't forget about those thousands of Irish people there who do know what state Dublin is in, who do care what's happening in Ireland. Maybe you've just never talked to these people, but they exist.

Yes we should have had a day of mourning for the Omagh bombing. We didn't, and that's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that we should not do it in other situations - in fact it is terribly childish to say "you didn't do it last time so you can't do it this time".

The sheer scale of this is almost incomprehensible. Being from near Westport in Mayo, it scares me to think that these towers were *well over half the height* of Croagh Patrick, and suddenly they're gone. Numerically and physically the scale of this requires some acknowledgement. And from our perspective look at the sheer number of people on this bbs that have lost or not heard from friends or family.

Anyway, flames to /dev/null , or Monty

Al.