Fathers lack of rights

Mercy Katharine

hello
i am a single father
our little boy was born last october
he was ten days old before i found out from a nurse
i split with my partner when she was 6 months pregnant - it was a relationship that was never meant to be - both of us agreed that things were not working out - it was difficult but to try and remain friends and be here for our child was the goal .
since he was born my ex changed completly , she registered her name only on the birth cert , and since last december has point blank refused me access to see our son , he was christened without our knowledge as her family didnt want herupset at the church .
this has hurt our family deep .

she refuses maintenence and returns it by post .

our little boy is 1 in 2 weeks time

yet another precious moment lost to his dad and his relations on my side

i believe she is suffering from post natal depression really badly - her family say she is fine - just give her more time .

i am not anti women but the longer i go without seeing our little boy the more i see how over the years women have gained equality in all areas but now have more when it comes to parenting

i love my little boy with all that is me , i get updates and pictures from her neighbours and her brother , i think about him every second of the day , friends of mine who have children are my envy ,
legal costs here are huge to sort this out and as usual it will be footed from my pocket . dont get me wrong all the money in the world would be worth it - but being caught between a girl who really is not herself and dragging her to court i just dont want to do it for her familys sake and mine .

any help or advice would be appreciated

luckat

Fathers don't have rights.

Mothers don't have rights.

Children have rights.

Parents have responsibilities.

goin'_to_the_PS

children, mothers and fathers have rights and responsibilities.

Corben Dallas

You should go the legal route to get access, if your prepared to support the child you should have some level of access.

Sounds as if shes tryin/is freezing you out. You will have a fight on your hands.

Mercy Katharine

fight is not the word i was looking for

like is said she is suffering from pnd and as much as i want to see our boy , i dont think court will help matters much .

any advice on how to deal with pnd ?

female views would be appreciated -

1huge1

if it is true what you say about your ex you should take her to court
if she is not fit to be a mother you could get full coustidy (probably being way to optimistic though)

Reaver772

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/relationships/civil_relationships/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples.html

75% chance of success, and as far as i know she must have put your name down on the birth cert its an offence otherwise. Hope this helps.

Mercy Katharine

thanks reaver , that site gave me a lot of info i did not know .

certainly seems to have a more subtle approach .

kind regards

Nevyn

Are you sure that she is surrfering from depression ?
Is she under the care of a dr ?
has it been diaginosed ?

Just because a parent is struggling in the first year does not mean they are
suffering from post natal depression. It could be plain life depression as her
life may not have gone the way she expected.

You do need to get your arrangements in reguards to child child sorted out.
I would make a point that you are trying to be part of her support network,
that this is your child to and you are trying to share the burden and parenting with her. Maybe suggest mediation.

Sleipnir

Reaver772 wrote:

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/relationships/civil_relationships/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples.html

75% chance of success, and as far as i know she must have put your name down on the birth cert its an offence otherwise. Hope this helps.

No it's not an offence. The mother can chose not to put the name on the birth cert.

OP, You do have rights to the child but you have to jump through hoops in order to get them.
As the father, and not being married to the mother, you are not a legal guardian of the child. This should be your first action in order to get access.

However, this isn't as easy as it sounds if the mother is not in agreement.
If she is, then you both need to make a declaration and get a signed document from a commisioner of oaths. Basically the mother has to agree to you being made a guardian.
If the mother does not consent then you have to go through the courts.

Don't let it go man, because if you do, it will get harder and harder.
Single fathers in this country are treated like dirt.
Imagine, as an unmarried father, you are not a legal guardian of your child. If the mother died, you would not get the child automatically or immediately. It's more likely that it would go to his/hers maternal grandparents.

Mercy Katharine

i after much consideration called my ex this evening .
The first words out of my mouth were please try to have a a decent conversation , please meet me even 10% of the way , i was told that i am not a part of her life , and therefore not a part of our sons .
he is 1 on the 28th of october and the best present i can give him on his 1st birthday is to serve his mother with papers of intent for court , i have hurt long enough , my son does not recognise his dad , my son is not allowed the benefit of the money i send him , i wish things were not so difficult , but for mine and his sake i will refer to replies recieved
The fight will begin tomorrow , i have been over nice and i have no tongue left to bite

to those of you out there who think what have i done ?
nothing
her mother , father , brothers all begging her to see sense but she controls everything .
they agree she is wrong but there is nothing they can do .
5 minutes of a sneak view of our son is no longer good enough ,

C Fodder

I'm not the best person to give advice but when you do start the legal road tell her family (at least those who you can talk to) that you are not doing this to cause trouble. That you want to be part of your childs life and as your son he is your responsibility as well as his mothers. Make it clear to them that you are doing this for his future. This won't make things easier with his mother but may prevent you being frozen out by the rest of his family on her side. In time when he is much older he will hear this story from other members of his family and get a better understanding of what happened when he was baby.

Good luck with the lawyers and don't always take their advice as it's your flesh and blood you're dealing with not just another court case. A clever legal manouver can get you what you are asking for but can cause a whole mountain of pain !!

Mercy Katharine

Thanks for your reply , as stated above tha last thing i want to do is upset anyone , but i have given more than enough time to see if something can be sorted .

i will use your advice , and thank you for taking the time to post it , i hope soon good news can be posted here .

cheers ....

unkel

ellicro, it is very clear you want to be a parent to your child. You want to care and to provide

Your child needs and deserves you as his parent. The path of least resistance (by not upsetting the child's mother) is not what is best for your child. I feel you should go the legal route if that is they only option left for you

C Fodder wrote:

when you do start the legal road tell her family (at least those who you can talk to) that you are not doing this to cause trouble. That you want to be part of your childs life and as your son he is your responsibility as well as his mothers. Make it clear to them that you are doing this for his future. This won't make things easier with his mother but may prevent you being frozen out by the rest of his family on her side. In time when he is much older he will hear this story from other members of his family and get a better understanding of what happened when he was baby.

That looks like a great tip to me. You clearly still talk to some of her friends / family so a pro-active approach like that could make a big difference. Maybe they can talk the mother into softening up her stance

irish_stu

hi,wasnt one myself for going thru the courts at first but i was advised to be seen to take steps first,i went to a social worker who talked to me and listened,cos i my head was in heap.had same problems with christening,she not want me or my family at it,dont mean to jump the thread,so prior to it my social worker sent out a copy of a letter asking her to meet him for mediation,at her time,her place,her leisure,she declined,but it rattled her,cos she knew them i was seeking advice,not even legal advice at that,my family ended up at the joyus day of the christening of my son,but after her decling numerous attempts to meet and solve the situation i was advised to go legal,which i did and my steps of been amicable initally went in my favour and she was queried alot on her cries that "she didnt want it to go to court" asked why she didnt go to mediation at her leisure to somewhat try she didnt try resolve it,so i hope your ok,cos it made me a stronger person,used to suffer with depression cos it wasnt an eay ride,like alot of fathers who come up against a brickwall.talk to someone,

Mercy Katharine

you are the first person who has put it as it really is , i can relate so much to what you wrote , everyone i know all the same , "hes a guy , he can cope , sure hes tough as nails , dont mention it cos youll only stir things up , time will sort things out .
but the truth - i have nearly broke down over all this , i have missed the most precious moments of his life that can never be gotten again , i have bent over backwards to please and waited for - something to come of it - but nothing .

i was told this week that if i am passing , im allowed to call in for ten minutes to see him , after a year - i have been granted ten minutes . For my son i refused , now a court will make a judgement , minium 2 hours a week , and when he is old enough to understand he will know that he was important enough to his father that his father took his mother to court to get to see him .

short of dressing in a batman suit and headin to the oireachtas this seems the best way to handle things .

iguana

Just one thing, I hope you weren't being literal in your decision to begin proceeding on your sons birthday. Tbh that sounds antagonistic and would probably be construed as so.

Other than that good luck. I hope you get proper access to your son.

Reaver772

ellicro wrote:

For my son i refused

Good for you, you deserve more than 10 minutes and more importantly your son deserves more.

irish_stu

ellirco.i hope these few words are of some importantance to you,initally you will get access,whether it be for ten minutes or ten hours,getting granted access is the first step,and it be a massive one at that,when you get access seek for more,which is what i have done,or did should i say,take small steps,it might take a period of time to get to your final destination but we you do get there it be worth it,in reality ya have to accept that with the child been so young overnights wont happen for period of time,ya will be hit the usual tripe of child been in routine and strange enviroments,its frustrating,but as in my case,my son now dictates when he wants to stay,my arrangements are ......i collect my son on wednesday at 4,or if i can swing a half day i collect him from school,and drop him home at 7,and weekends it alternates one night overnight next week collect him at half ten till six,so he sleeps over every second week,we are flexible,his mum might ring up asking to change arrangements and i have done the same myself,and many a time i get phonecall in work from my son ( 6yrs )telling me he wants me to collect him early,and his granny is only to glad for him to pop around to mine when my son chooses,my few words have again turned into an essay,sorry,think of the bigger picture,you will get what you want in time,cos when ya get what access you are happy with it will be worth the fight,

Mercy Katharine

well it got the better of me over the weekend , "if you are passing and my car is there you can call in for 10 minutes" were the last words spoken by my ex to me . i cut off my nose to spite my face , i must have drove past er house 40 times today - no car outside , maybe she forgot to mention that she had already planned to be away for the day , "i think not !" , eventually after spending my day hoping to see her car at home - i met her brother who told me she was away and not back til tomorrow .

from myself this is the last time i lower myself to agree to her non existent terms to see our little boy .

its a total shame that there is nothing in current legislation to give the paternal father any rights .

short of dressing up in a batman suit and screaming off the roof of the oireachtas in desperation - is there any politician out there who would stand up in the dail and speak out for single fathers ?

if so let me know - il travel to meet you and bring the batman suit !

irish_stu

its all mind games,to her she is doing you a favour,best thing you can do for those incidents is to buy a little notepad,and note down everything,doesnt matter how trivial,cos when it comes to court,you will have all events noted,and ya will have a record of them which is more important,even to this day i keep a note pad in my car.for all the times she offers access jot it down,for all the times ya went to house jot it down,even if she not present at house,knock in and be seen my her family that your availing of those few minutes,write down who was present when ya knocked,you keep your side of the arrangement,all her smart comments ,jot them down,even if ya retaliate verbaly,jot it down,cos ya can bet your ass she will remember dates when you saysomething smart to her,and her solicitor will **** it back at you in court,court for me wasnt about access,it was a battle,she accused me of everything under the sun,accused me of things,and my brief asked her what date did such a thing happen and refeffered to my litte notebook,you need to be prepared mate,i know its tough,and its very easy to get down about it,but you need to start been strong and get the ball rolling,can i ask you a question ................are you giving her money.ya might be trying to and she be throwing it back in your face,personal experience when she got a summons in her door about me taking her to court for access i then got a summons for maintenance,it was only thing she could get me with,but judge dismissed her summons,she could not take me to court not paying when i was paying,regardless of the amount,open up a bank account,and lodge x amount of money,ten or 20 euro even,never give her money,cos then you have no document of you giving it to her,she could just deny ya gave her anything,so open abank account and give her the pass card and pin number and ya can get the statements posted to her address,she cant deny then your not contributing,and it looks favourably too that even thru this your still taking responsbility,nothing worse than been hit for maintence and the judge back dating it from the day the child was born.,so on day of court ya have your end covered,be prepared,if she claims you start trouble at her door,that can be resolved too,go to local station and talk to a community garda,ask him or she would he go as a type of observer,cos when i got access she got dirty saying i would be abusive,so i changed the manner in which i took my child.at a local cop shop,it made her uncomfortable,but i was covering my own ass,and it was documented that i approached the garda and set up the arrangement to keep the so called trouble away from her family home,it soon got better of her,cos it didnt suit her,and the yarns of me causing grief at her family door soon stopped,again the judge seen that i was taking every step to make the access more amicable and stress free,but judge seen right thru her,its about power mate.she has the power,using the child,she be all powerful on her turf,she call the shots in front of her family,never had i any trouble at my door,cos she never had balls to knock at my door,her by shutting the door in my face gave her the control,so i elimated the enviroment where she had the control,now i can turn up at her door and walk straight in,plank my self on her couch,i turn up early,and she is the one rushing to suit me,itv was dirty mate,dirty and personal,but it was worth it,then again you might not have as much grief,please god it might just be enough to rattle her cage by seeking access legally,all this is my personal experience,im not suggesting that every father comes across the same scenario as me,but i hope that by me sharing my troubles it educates you a little,i say for three years i put up with little remarks,her trying to control the situation,i can tell you there wasnt a week that went by when something was said,even when i had access,it worn me down,she used to leave little notes in my sons bag,how to do things,and timings,had rows over what way my mother was my mother washing his clothes,what detergent what temp,talk about nit picking,it got to me,bugged me cos she was thrown in her bits every time,i always kept my mouth shut,and wote it down,time,date,how long i had my son for,and the remarks that was passed,i could write a ****ing book,now i have her to a tee,im stronger,i say my piece.if im not happy with something i let her know,she will always send our son in,close the door and ask cn she have a word,and i say jokingly what have i done now,and she cops on that she cant be the bully she was,now we have civil conversations,who would have thought,now she comes around to my house,she will stay and chat,suppose we have both learned to move on,and our son is what counts,so their can be light at end of tunnel,ya just have to dig hard,

Mercy Katharine

Hello Stu

i read your post 3 times to take everything in , we could be twins - or our ex's at least , like i said at the start i believe she is still suffering badly from pnd , and while i so much want to put an end to this bitterness and fighting - i dont want things to get any worse , as much as i want to see our boy , i dont think "10 minutes if im passing " is anyway to make an offer to a father after a year of being denied access , i have also been informed by her that she is bulimic ? - that she is battling hard against it and that my efforts to sort things out are only making things worse on her .

im really at a loss , i know our boy is being well looked after but after these latest revelations i now am getting worried , if she is - bulimic - then surely there is a problem there that could affect her ability to guarantee her care to him , if this is un-true , then there is definatley a case of mental stability , the worst case is that she now lives at home (an only girl ) and has the full support of her mother , so her problem(s) will never truely see the light of day except as word from my mouth and blood will be thicker than water if her family are questioned at court .

she (my ex) is quiet devious , at the start she and her mother sat in my parents sitting room and refused money , refused maintainence , and has since returned by post the P.O's - she then told her neighbours that i refused to pay her anything and that i wanted nothing to do with him , when challenged with the fact that i did want to see him and had tried to pay her she then said i had given her cheques that bouncd (I only ever paid her with postal orders ) and all i had to do was knock on her door to see him ( i knocked and was turned away ) so people in her area now know the truth as i still have the postal orders that were issued inher name , i have never had or intend to have - a cheque book , there have been so many lies attached to my name that it will take a court case now to publicly inform all that none of waht has been accused has happened ,

where does it all end

is there a politician out there who will stand up for Single fathers and allow their kids the right to know and bond with them in the early stages in their life .

thanks stu

in some ways talkin here tends to get it all off my chest , it can be so frustrating at times ...........

irish_stu

have also been informed by her that she is bulimic ? - that she is battling hard against it and that my efforts to sort things out are only making things worse on her .


they are using you a pawn,thats not your fault,im sorry to sound crude but its easy for them to blame somebody else,obviously there is alot going on at home,that has contributed to her been ill,its a scare tatic ploy to get you to back off with your quest for justice,your concern is your son,if she is sick,well the child is best of with you till she gets better,...................................get up off arse mate and go to solicitor for legal advice,trust me mate,it be best positive move ya can make,for yourself,cos if ya dont her mother will keep on loading yo down with reasons not to persue it legally,before ya know it it be childs 3 or 4th birthday,and ya still be in same position, cruel to be kind mate,get the ball rolling.please

nobodythere

First of all, I want to say how sad it is to have missed the first year of your sons life. I have a niece and if I missed a year of her life I'd be heartbroken. I can't imagine what it must be like for you.

Are you sure this whole post-natal depression thing you claim isn't just you making excuses for the mother because you still have feelings/don't hate her/are too nice? This is your son, you'll probably realise that you can't even begin to comprehend what you're missing until you have it. I know you want to be reasonable with the mother, and you seem like a dead on guy, but after a whole year? I don't think she's gonna relent

angelfire9

Hi. I can actually speak with some authority on this subject having gone through the courts to get maintenance from my ex. First off she was entitled to register the birth without your name appearing on it, the father's section will simply remain blank, unfortunately outside of a court order there's nothing you can do to get your name stated on the birth cert without her consent!.
I would advise taking the legal route. Yes it will be expensive, yes it will probably get nasty, yes she may even ignore the court orders regarding access but at least if you have a court order you have the law behind you and you can force her to comply with a court order, to fail to comply is an offence. To be realistic unless she is a complete lunatic no court is going to give you custody of a child that doesn't even know you. the best you could probably hope for is alternate weeks or weekends. Take whatever the court gives you. Get to know your son before you start looking for more than that. You can always go back to court to get more access in 12 months time.
She does not have a legal right to refuse to take maintenance from you, the maintenance is for your son, not for her, and you are legally oblidged to pay it so maybe you can open a savings account in his name and pay the money into it weekly or monthly? This will work in your favour in court as it shows you have good intentions!.
Finally be aware that if your ex is a nasty person she may deny paternity which will bring you down the road of a paternity test which will cost you in the region of 900 euro or so, but if it works out it'll be worth it.
Good luck, i've been there its not fun but you'll get through it

DNA Ireland

Just read all posts in this thread, my heart goes out to both Mercy and Irish Stu. It must be tough, I can't even imagine.
How's it going now? Have you made any progress??
If you need to have a paternity test you can have one done for €475 if you call 021 4960075.

If you're in Dublin, a support / advice group for single and separated parents (male and female) meets every Monday evening at 8pm upstairs in Smyths of Fairview, go to a meeting and all your questions will be answered, and you will be given all the advice and help you need. You do not need a solicitor for Family court proceedings...... I'd encourage anyone to go..... it could really help you. Good luck. I don't have the chairperson's number with me at the moment, but I'll post it up later..... by the way, this group supports Fathers in your position all over the country and are actively lobbying for Father's rights, please please go...... they can help you and if you're not in Dublin, I promise I'll post up the number and contact details tomorrow - ring them - you won't regret it.

EPO_MAN

luckat wrote:

Fathers don't have rights.

Mothers don't have rights.

Children have rights.

Parents have responsibilities.

That's not helping, it's smartalec(y) and direspectful

(as promised - includes single men and women though they're not specifically mentioned in title! )

SEPARATED PARENTS OF IRELAND

Meeting every Monday (excl Bank Holidays) in Smyths of Fairview, Dublin 3 from 8pm till 10pm.

Support group offering help, options and comfort to those people who are going through a relationship breakdown.

Items discussed are access, maintenance, custody, judicial separations, divorce, safety/protection/barring orders, grandparents rights, discrimination etc.

All are welcome.

Tel: Eugene Finane 0876615663.
E-mail: separatedparentsofireland@yahoo.co.uk

irish_stu

THANKS,as it stands my situation has improved,alot,we are both welcome in each others homes,without that awkward feeling,alot has happened in the last year,my son lost a grand dad,i lost a father,and my son has grown up alot,his mother and father had alot of growing up to do too,the time of strict timings and dedicated visits are gone out the window,in comes the flexi time,and if my son wants to stay he asks me or his mam,.....i am the father figure in my sons life.its not about us no more,its about him.