Larsson To Leave Barca?

jonny68

Please come back to Celtic Henrik

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4324644.stm

Thanx 4 The Fish

jonny68 wrote:

Please come back to Celtic Henrik

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4324644.stm

Could do with him at anfield

Dub13

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Could do with him at anfield

Now that is something to think about.

jonny68

If he was gonna come back to the UK there's only 1 club he's gonna come to and we all know who that is..CELTIC FC

Dub13

jonny68 wrote:

If he was gonna come back to the UK there's only 1 club he's gonna come to and we all know who that is..CELTIC FC

Not so sure of that....he has talked loads of times about playing in England

jonny68

Dub13 wrote:

Not so sure of that....he has talked loads of times about playing in England

Had his chance to go to Man United years ago and didn't so there you go

Thanx 4 The Fish

Because he wanted to play somewhere warmer I believe, if it was a choice between Germany and England, that would be a tough call.

A Dub in Glasgo

Dub13 wrote:

Not so sure of that....he has talked loads of times about playing in England

I must have missed all those times, refresh my memory.

I do remember him stating that he does not have to join the a club in the EPL to prove himself as was suggested by many English newspapers when he stayed at Celtic for 7 seasons.

Jivin Turkey

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I do remember him stating that he does not have to join the a club in the EPL to prove himself as was suggested by many English newspapers when he stayed at Celtic for 7 seasons.

To be honest he still does have a lot to prove IMO to be considered a great player.

Obviously his injury last year is a mitigating factor, but he has hardly been a shining light for them, letting him go would be indicative of this.

jonny68

Jivin Turkey wrote:

To be honest he still does have a lot to prove IMO to be considered a great player.

Obviously his injury last year is a mitigating factor, but he has hardly been a shining light for them, letting him go would be indicative of this.

Nonsense Larssons record speaks for itself,on his day he was one of the best strikers in the world.

MrJoeSoap

Absolutely class player, but his record only speaks for itself in Scotland. He did very well for Sweden too (over 30 goals I think). Not doubting his ability, and his loyalty was admirable, but he'll only really be considered a legend by Celtic fans.

jonny68

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Absolutely class player, but his record only speaks for itself in Scotland. He did very well for Sweden too (over 30 goals I think). Not doubting his ability, and his loyalty was admirable, but he'll only really be considered a legend by Celtic fans.

Not likely,my mate doesn't support Celtic and he thinks Larssons a legend

MrJoeSoap

Guess it comes down to what people define as a legend so! Still, great player to watch.

Jivin Turkey

jonny68 wrote:

Nonsense Larssons record speaks for itself,on his day he was one of the best strikers in the world.

Exactly, Larsson's club record is only impressive in Scotland, he has a lot to prove.

I think he has scored 28 goals in international football in about 80 games. Can't turn your nose at that, particularly as he has scored at three major championships. Unfortunately his goals generally come against the "weaker" nations, and aside from a goal against Italy he rarely netted against the "bigger" nations.

I admire him hugely, but think he could have done more to prove himself. At his age now I guess we will never know.

MrJoeSoap

A good link to his (impressive) international record:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/hlarsson-intlg.html

Jivin Turkey

MrJoeSoap wrote:

A good link to his (impressive) international record:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/hlarsson-intlg.html

Thanks, I didn't think my stats were fully up to date.

It is impressive, I forgot about him playing back in WC94! Still though a scan through the teams scored against reveals that there are few big names. But as I said you can't turn your nose at that many goals at international level.

I think he just could have proved himself on a bigger stage than at Celtic, and now we will never know.

evad_lhorg

well now i wouldnt say he was one of the best in the world. i mean he was puttin them in in the not so talented scotticsh league. dont get me wrong. he is a good player but not one of the best.

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Thanks, I didn't think my stats were fully up to date.

It is impressive, I forgot about him playing back in WC94! Still though a scan through the teams scored against reveals that there are few big names. But as I said you can't turn your nose at that many goals at international level.

I think he just could have proved himself on a bigger stage than at Celtic, and now we will never know.

Robbie Keane has 24 goals in 60 caps. Not many would describe him as a legend thugh, cept maybe a deluded few

MrJoeSoap

Stekelly wrote:

Robbie Keane has 24 goals in 60 caps. Not many would describe him as a legend thugh, cept maybe a deluded few

Very good point.

jesus_thats_gre

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Could do with him at anfield

Ask my bollix....

Guy:Incognito

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Ask my bollix....

Yeah, screw that, we have loads of strikers who are banging..............................

20 Times 20 Times

What has a golden boot winner have to prove ?
Larsson's international record is impressive with 33 goals in 83 games, many of which he played in midfield or as a winger. He has always made his mark on big occasions and has scored at two World Cups (1994 at which Sweden came 3rd, and 2002), and two European Championships (2000 and 2004).

In 2000/2001 season he scored 52 goals in all compettitons,wining him the golden boot , i dont think he has to prove himself to anyone.

FC Barcelona
2005-06 Spanish Supercup
2004-05 League

Celtic Glasgow
2003-04 Scotland League
2001-02 Scotland Cup of League
2001-02 Scotland League
2000-01 Scotland Cup of League
2000-01 Scotland Cup
2000-01 Scotland League
2000-01 Top European Scorer (35 goals)
1999-00 Scotland Cup
1997-98 Scotland Cup of League
1997-98 Scotland League
   

Feyenoord
1994-95 Holland Cup
1993-94 Holland Cup

Sweden National Team
1993-94 3rd Position World Cup'94

not bad at all for a player that has yet to prove himself

A Dub in Glasgo

You really have to laugh at some here who think the EPL is the be all and end all of football in the world. Continue to live in your insular little world guys.

Anyhow, to me, Larsson is an absolute legend and an impeccible professional footballer who swims against the tide of arseholes who seem to infect the game. It was an absolute privilege to have a season ticket at Celtic for each of the 7 seasons that Larsson was in Glasgow.

A Celtic legend

eirebhoy

Of all the current players playing atm, I think only Raul has scored more goals than Larrson in Europe (CL, UEFA cup). He got some cheer when he came on for Eto'o against Udinese a couple of weeks ago.

Jivin Turkey

Stekelly wrote:

Robbie Keane has 24 goals in 60 caps. Not many would describe him as a legend thugh, cept maybe a deluded few

That's my point! His international record is good, but international football can be of an incredibly poor standard, or an incredibly high one. Larsson scored four of his goals in a single match against Moldova.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You really have to laugh at some here who think the EPL is the be all and end all of football in the world. Continue to live in your insular little world guys.

The EPL, Serie A, La Liga, De Bundesliga, and CL would be my be all and end all of (club) football, of which Larsson has made little impact in any.

You really have to laugh at some here who think that because a guy scores stacks of goals in the Scottish league that he is somehow world class. Continue to live in your own insular little world.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Anyhow, to me, Larsson is an absolute legend and an impeccible professional footballer who swims against the tide of arseholes who seem to infect the game. It was an absolute privilege to have a season ticket at Celtic for each of the 7 seasons that Larsson was in Glasgow.

A Celtic legend

I'm sure he is a legend to any Celtic fan. He achieved incredible things for them. It's just a pity he stayed there so long, no one will ever be able to know if he was good enough to cut it in a top league. Mind you I'm not sure he would change a thing in his career, as I'm sure he has amazing memories of his time at Celtic.

eirebhoy wrote:

Of all the current players playing atm, I think only Raul has scored more goals than Larrson in Europe (CL, UEFA cup).

I did a quick count and only clocked 35 for Celtic, some of them against dire opposition in the UEFA cup or CL qualifiers. While it's obviously still an impressive haul it should be looked at in context in comparing it to a player like Raul, RVN, Shevchenko or Henry whom have all scored more in Europe (I'm quite sure!).

Guy:Incognito

Sarge wrote:

What has a golden boot winner have to prove ?
Larsson's international record is impressive with 33 goals in 83 games, many of which he played in midfield or as a winger. He has always made his mark on big occasions and has scored at two World Cups (1994 at which Sweden came 3rd, and 2002), and two European Championships (2000 and 2004).

In 2000/2001 season he scored 52 goals in all compettitons,wining him the golden boot , i dont think he has to prove himself to anyone.

FC Barcelona
2005-06 Spanish Supercup
2004-05 League

not bad at all for a player that has yet to prove himself

He hardly played a pivotal (or any) role in Barce winning things last year.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You really have to laugh at some here who think the EPL is the be all and end all of football in the world. Continue to live in your insular little world guys.

Anyhow, to me, Larsson is an absolute legend and an impeccible professional footballer who swims against the tide of arseholes who seem to infect the game. It was an absolute privilege to have a season ticket at Celtic for each of the 7 seasons that Larsson was in Glasgow.

A Celtic legend

Theres no denying that players have an easier time and score more goals up there, it is an easier league to play in and no amount of spl fanboyism is going to change that.

eirebhoy

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I did a quick count and only clocked 35 for Celtic, some of them against dire opposition in the UEFA cup or CL qualifiers. While it's obviously still an impressive haul it should be looked at in context in comparing it to a player like Raul, RVN, Shevchenko or Henry whom have all scored more in Europe (I'm quite sure!).

van Nistelrooy has caught up with him.

Raul: P 95 - G 49
RVN: P 52 - G 45
Larsson: P 81 - G 45
Shevchenko: P 79 - G 43
Henry: P 89 - G 43
Inzaghi: P 69 - G 41
Kluivert: P 86 - G 39
Del Piero: P 89 - G 37
Ronaldo: P 64 - G 34

Larsson's goals are against weaker opposition but in the UEFA cup final campaign he scored in 8 of his 10 games including 2 in the final against Porto.

Lemlin

He's still scored against top opposition like Valencia and Porto in the UEFA Cup who are Champions League opposition.

And I'm sure many of RVN's or Raul's Champions League goals came against minnows too. It's not as if Man Utd or Real never have to play the likes of Slavia Prague and Brondby.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Jivin Turkey

eirebhoy wrote:

van Nistelrooy has caught up with him.

Raul: P 95 - G 49
RVN: P 52 - G 45
Larsson: P 81 - G 45
Shevchenko: P 79 - G 43
Henry: P 89 - G 43
Inzaghi: P 69 - G 41
Kluivert: P 86 - G 39
Del Piero: P 89 - G 37
Ronaldo: P 64 - G 34

Larsson's goals are against weaker opposition but in the UEFA cup final campaign he scored in 8 of his 10 games including 2 in the final against Porto.

A great year he had that year alright, I think he scored something like 12 in total.

I could only find 35 European goals for Celtic though Eirebhoy (and one for Barca ), where are you getting the other nine from? His time at Feyenoord?

It's a good record but it's nothing like the players that you have him listed alongside there.

Lemlin wrote:

And I'm sure many of RVN's or Raul's Champions League goals came against minnows too. It's not as if Man Utd or Real never have to play the likes of Slavia Prague and Brondby.

But not too many against the likes of Cwmbran Town, Jeunesse, HJK Helsinki and FK Suduva.

I said already, his record is impressive, but you have to put it into context in comparing it to most of the players listed above.

ziggy67 wrote:

Anyone care to explain how he managed to look on a different planet to former EPL top scorers Hartson & Sutton (not even gonna mention 12 million good in EPL/crap in SPL Tore Andre Flo ) and how he outscored Michael Owen in Spain until his leg-break?

What a stupid comment. But I'll field it.

Firstly, your use of "former EPL top scorers" is completely ridiculous. Besides when did Hartson ever get top-scorer? He scored 16 one year I remember, that was his highest. His record in the SPL isn't even actually all that far off Larsson's (0.73 VS 0.79 goals per start). So I would hardly say Larsson was on a different planet.

How many goals did Sutton score the year before moving to Scotland? One? Was he ever actually EPL top scorer? Close a number of times but I never think he won it outright, and besides almost all his good seasons were 10 years ago.

As regards outscoring Owen, he didn't. He had scored three by the time he got injured, Owen had four. At that time Owen was still at the stage of making second half cameos.

I'd recommend you do some research before posting something that debunks your entire argument.

And comparing Larsson, whom I fully admit is a class player, to such EPL legends as John Hartson and Chris Sutton isn't a cause for Larsson's admittance to the European hall of fame.

Lemlin

How many goals did Sutton score the year before moving to Scotland? One? Was he ever actually EPL top scorer? Close a number of times but I never think he won it outright, and besides almost all his good seasons were 10 years ago.

In all fairness, Sutton was the record transfer for £5 million in 1994. A fee at the time that Alex Ferguson said he could never see himself paying for a player (£28 million for Rio Alex???). It was £1.4 over the previous record that United had paid for Keano.

And he did have a couple of terrible seasons but he also had a couple of wonder seasons, where he scored 20 or so goals for Blackburn.

I think the bottom line is that Henrik proved that he not only cut it in the SPL but scored goals at major Championships and in Europe. Look at how he performed in Euro 2004, having been petitioned by the Swedish people to come out of retirement.

Guy:Incognito

The list of goalscorers above is filled with CL goalscorers. Only Larsson has scored more than a few in the Uefa cup. Does Larssons total include CL qualifiers? because RVN doesnt.

Lemlin

Yep but does RVN's goal scoring record take into account that Larsson did alot more for his team's all round play than Ruud the dude?

Guy:Incognito

Lemlin wrote:

Yep but does RVN's goal scoring record take into account that Larsson did alot more for his team's all round play than Ruud the dude?

Nope, it takes into account that he scored masiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive amounts of goals, which is all UTd bought him for.

ziggy

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ziggy

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Dempsey

Larsson was a class player. Proved himself for Sweden & Celtic. I'd note 3rd WC 94 , UEFA Cup Finalist and European Golden Boot for all those who believe he didn't prove himself at the highest level.

eirebhoy

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I could only find 35 European goals for Celtic though Eirebhoy (and one for Barca ), where are you getting the other nine from? His time at Feyenoord?

Yeah he scored the rest at Feyenoord. He scored in his first 5 European games for Feyenoord including a hattrick against Werder Bremen.

Lemlin

Originally posted by ziggy67
According to this Click Sutton was indeed (joint) top scorer in 97/98. That is seven (not ten) years ago BTW.

I'll hold my hands up & admit i was wrong about Hartson though.

But for Shearer in 1995 I imagine he would of been top scorer too. Who'd forget the formidable SAS combination that they had?

Well done Ziggy67, me thinks you have stuck it right royally to Jivin Turkey.

Any argument against Larsson is ultimately flawed anyway by the players that each play with. Do you not think that Larsson would of scored more if he had been receiving the support that RVN does from players like Giggs and Beckham, in his day? Or that Raul does from Madrid's galacticos?

Don't tell me you're going to try and say that Bobby Petta and Didier Agathe are even in the same League as the players Inzaghi had at Milan, Raul had at Madrid and RVN has at United.

Larsson was a class player. Proved himself for Sweden & Celtic. I'd note 3rd WC 94 , UEFA Cup Finalist and European Golden Boot for all those who believe he didn't prove himself at the highest level.

Well said, Larsson does not have to prove himself to anyone. I think if you asked top players like Inzaghi, Raul or Ronaldo, they would tell you the same. The man is held in high regard not only by Celtic fans but by fans of football. Just look at the reception he got when he returned to Lyon, the place of his terrible injury.

Guy:Incognito

Dempsey wrote:

Larsson was a class player. Proved himself for Sweden & Celtic. I'd note 3rd WC 94 , UEFA Cup Finalist and European Golden Boot for all those who believe he didn't prove himself at the highest level.

He got the golden boot becauae of the amount of goals he scored in the spl, hardly a comback against people saying hes only a legend in scotland.

If peter crouch joined shels and score 70 goals next season he'd win the goalden boot aswell.


Milan Baros and dJimi Traore WON the Cl, doesnt make them great players (or good for that matter)

South Korea got to the Semis of the Wc without recorgnised world class players.

Guy:Incognito

Lemlin wrote:

But for Shearer in 1995 I imagine he would of been top scorer too. Who'd forget the formidable SAS combination that they had?
.

But for the players who scord more than him, Baros was the top scorer last season. :rolleyes:

Lemlin wrote:

Any argument against Larsson is ultimately flawed anyway by the players that each play with. Do you not think that Larsson would of scored more if he had been receiving the support that RVN does from players like Giggs and Beckham, in his day? Or that Raul does from Madrid's galacticos?.

Does it not also say that those strikers are rated above larsson by the top managers seeing as none of them bough him?

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Well done Ziggy67, me thinks you have stuck it right royally to Jivin Turkey.

I'd agree only

ziggy67 wrote:

According to this Click Sutton was indeed (joint) top scorer in 97/98. That is seven (not ten) years ago BTW.

I'll hold my hands up & admit i was wrong about Hartson though.

I asked you was he ever top scorer, because I never thought he won it outright (which he didn't). I also said "almost" all his good seasons were 10 years ago, I'm sorry one of them was only 7 years back.

In total Sutton had about three good seasons in a career in English football spanning close to a decade, in his bad seasons he scored single digits and once as little as one league goal. That is not the mark of a "proven player". Hit and miss more like.

Hartson was always inconsistent in the EPL. His highest goal tally was 16, he regularly didnt reach double figures.

ziggy67 wrote:

According to this Click Larsson scored seven goals for Barca last year. Did he score 4 goals when he was on crutches??- what a man! .

Regardless of statistics i was only pointing out he was at least a match for proven EPL strikers, i never mentioned anything about Hall of Fame or anything.

So Jivin there is my research, now show me yours to "debunk" my "stupid comment". Bold statements, now show the facts!

I'd show you my research only I could just use yours. If you bothered to read your own link you would see that Larsson had only scored four goals, "GS" stands for games started not goals scored.

I claimed he had only scored three, my stats only included league games. So himself and Owen were equal in this two and a half month period.

So to summarise your points, Larsson is "at least a match for proven EPL strikers" because

- he did better in the SPL than Chris Sutton, a striker who has a domestic English league record of worse than 1 in 3 despite playing with and for some of the best players and clubs in English football at the time for a good proportion of his career.

- he did marginally better in the SPL than than John Hartson, who at best in the EPL could be described as inconsistent, at worst, not very good.

- he matched Owen (a proven EPL player) for goals over a two and a half month period in the Spanish league. Wow.

Now while I've said before I don't think Larsson is crap, I'm sure he would have done well in the EPL had he tried. But your comparisons to the above players prove nothing of his ability.

Lemlin wrote:

Any argument against Larsson is ultimately flawed anyway by the players that each play with. Do you not think that Larsson would of scored more if he had been receiving the support that RVN does from players like Giggs and Beckham, in his day? Or that Raul does from Madrid's galacticos?

Don't tell me you're going to try and say that Bobby Petta and Didier Agathe are even in the same League as the players Inzaghi had at Milan, Raul had at Madrid and RVN has at United.

And any argument for Larsson like that is ultimately flawed anyway by the players he played against. Can you name a single Scottish CB outside of the Old Firm? Can you say Alesandro Nesta, John Terry, or Carlos Puyol?

Again I want to reitterate, I don't think Larsson is bad player, far from it, he was a very good player, a player I hugely admire and like, a player that could teach most in the game about loyalty.

I just think he is a player that could have succeeded much more in football and had he tried we could be talking about a truly great player, but alas he didn't, and I guess we will never know how good he could have been, and so he will only ever be a good player in my eyes.

But as I said before, I doubt he would trade his memories at Celtic for a shot at the big time just to prove some internet soccer nerds wrong.

A Dub in Glasgo

This is an ultimately pointless argument reminescent of the 'my dad is bigger than your dad' in the school yard. If you think that Larsson has to join an EPL team to finally prove himself then so be it. I think you are wrong to think that but it is your thought and your belief.

What cannot be denied is the utter professionalism from Larsson which would put many players (who apparantly have proved themselves) in the EPL to shame. Larsson is more than a goalscorer and people who have seen him play will testify to that.

ziggy

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el rabitos

how has a thread about henrik larsson gone 3 pages long?? anyway....

Sutton & Hartson played in the same team & received the same service so the comparison is valid

if u ever watched hartson play for celtic you'd know his job is to hold up the ball and allow the midfielders to get forward. he's not an out and out striker for celtic or wales....

as far as sutton goes, he was never great in the premiership, never lived up to his billing. but he's decent enough, larsson is better imo. doesnt make larsson anything great though

larsson wasted his carreer up in scotland, its a fact that the opposition is sub-par and larssons achievements will always be over-looked. no major powers in football ever really went out of their way to prise him away from celtic

MrJoeSoap

Got another goal for Sweden tonight.

Guy:Incognito

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Got another goal for Sweden tonight.

Against the mighty Iceland aswell.

Jivin Turkey

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

This is an ultimately pointless argument reminescent of the 'my dad is bigger than your dad' in the school yard. If you think that Larsson has to join an EPL team to finally prove himself then so be it. I think you are wrong to think that but it is your thought and your belief.

Its only a pointless argument because the only people claiming he is a world class player are the Celtic fans who have a romantic notion of him and his achievments and wouldn't hear a bad word said about him despite his obvious career shortfalls.

I've said numerous times, I really admire Larsson, he was an excellent player, and a true professional, but at this stage of his career he will never be able to prove himself as "world class".

ziggy67 wrote:

Jivin who do you want me to compare him with?

Sutton & Hartson played in the same team & received the same service so the comparison is valid.

Owen having his 1st season in Spain, not a regular starter, hadn't settled in etc. just like Larsson. Short space of time to compare them granted, but circumstances intervened.

But its been said that both Sutton and Hartson are not proven EPL strikers. I should hope he compares to both of them.

And as I said, comparisons over a period as short as ten weeks with a proven EPL striker is pointless. Especially given the circumstances of each individual at each of their clubs.

For Larsson to be considered world class in my eyes he shouldn't have to abstractly compare his feats to anyone. He should just go and score a hatful of goals in a competitive league. Will it ever happen? I doubt it.

ziggy67 wrote:

So we both got some facts wrong, no big deal in my eyes, but Jivin when you go into a rant about research and slate someones comments as "stupid" it may serve you better to make damn sure that you have your own facts straight in future.

No hang on, I said Hartson was never top-scorer, and I was correct. I asked did Sutton ever win it, because I was sure he never won it outright, again correct, and I also said that Larsson didn't outscore Owen in Spain, which was again correct.

I find it comical that I'm getting research tips from a guy that wasn't even bothered to read his own link before he posted it.

A Dub in Glasgo

It all started in post 9 when you stated

To be honest he still does have a lot to prove IMO to be considered a great player.

Looks like you are moving the goalposts

blu_sonic

when its brought back to brass tacs, larson is indeed a good player, a solid player and no doubt would have survived in the EPL, its nat a wasted career in scotland just it isn't of as high a quality,

i personally rate larson, but in the same bracket as drogba, crouch (on a good day), torre andre flo and the like, good solid players who aren't going to set the world on fire, he isn't a Ruud, owen, rooney, ronaldo (brazil's one), raul etc. he will be remember by celtic fans and the swedish, but not the footblling public at large

Jivin Turkey

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

It all started in post 9 when you stated

To be honest he still does have a lot to prove IMO to be considered a great player.

Looks like you are moving the goalposts

How am I moving the goalposts? That's the stance I've taken all along.

Larsson is a good player, a player I've always admired. He has however never proved himself in a competitive division, hence I wouldn't describe him as "great" or "world class".