Would you get ADSL from eircom at the prices they're asking?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by fixer
kamobe, the costs involved were not all dealing with developing a new technology. The providers needed to purchase new equipment, train their installers, train and add customer service/response teams, add to their billing systems, develop marketing plans, etc.

Of course it's not what it costs Eircom that is important; it is the costs that would be incurred by an "efficient european operator". Eircom might well have run up huge costs over the years testing and then dumping various forms of DSL, buying up multimedia companies, setting up tv studios etc., but the ODTR can't take this into account.

This might dissapoint some people for whom even £300 per month might be a good deal. It is very easy to run up this sort of bill over a month on dual ISDN.

Unfortunately, at the current wholesale rates (£50/month) it is unlikely that there will be competition which might eventually bring down the retail price.

Lemming

Originally posted by fixer
I guess my main point in this is that what Eircom has set up doesn't seem to me to be a bad first step.

First of all .. this isn't a flame fixer, but I do disagree strongly with you there. The only good thing about this first step is that DSL is being made available.

Someone pointed out on another thread the yearly costs for aDSL for the home user. In Sweden it was about £280 or something. In britain it was £480 or something, and then there's good old paddy-f*cking-last Ireland at a whopping £1100-400 (I can't rightly remember).

Before argue the "new service" issue, I mgiht remind you that aDSL is still a very new service in Britain also, and yet their costs are 2-3 times lower than ours. So one has to question the validity of Eircom's pricing plan.

I might then point out the caps (or lack thereof) in these other countires.

So I am very loathe to give Eircom any credit for this move. Lets not forget that they were brought this far kicking and screaming!

neverhappen

Country ireland New Zealand

population 3.8M 3.8M
company eircom telecom new zealand
website eircom.ie telecom.co.nz
rollout start date oct 2001 june 1999
dsl product i-stream jetstream


jetstart details :

bandwidth is 128kbps up and down.
unlimited usage per month, no volume caps.
cost is NZD 29.95 (IEP 10.52) pm (all figures are including GST (VAT))
installation is NZD (IEP 62.50). This does not include the modem or the line rental
jetstart includes free access at jetstream speed (2MBdown, 256k up) to nz telecoms games server.

jetstream details :

jetstream is packaged much the same as eircoms I-$cream, set fee per month for set number of MB, extra charge per MB after that. There is, however, no bandwidth throttling - all plans have access at minimum 2MB down and 256k up (and they reckon most customers get better than that). You can change between plans, active from the following month. All jetstream plans have free unlimited access to the jetstream games server. Users can connect to a web site that will tell them their usage to date. Optionally, a robot will call you between 6 and 8 pm to tell you you are running out of MB for the month.

jetstream 400 : (residential and home business users)
MB limit : 400
monthly charge : NZD 49.00 (IEP 17.20)
extra per MB : NZD 0.20 (IEP 0.07)

jetstream 600 : (entry level for small / medium sized businesses)
MB limit : 600
monthly charge : NZD 69.00 (IEP 24.22)
extra per MB : NZD 0.20 (IEP 0.07)

jetstream 1500 : (medium usage plan 1 for businesses)
MB limit : 1500
monthly charge : NZD 199.00 (IEP 69.88)
extra per MB : NZD 0.18 (IEP 0.06)

jetstream 3000 : (medium usage plan 2 for businesses)
MB limit : 3000
monthly charge : NZD 310.23 (IEP 108.98)
extra per MB : NZD 0.143 (IEP 0.05)

jetstream 5000 : (high usage plan for business using as a vpn etc)
MB limit : 5000
monthly charge : NZD 488 (IEP 171.41)
extra per MB : NZD 0.125 (IEP 0.04)

jetstream 10000 : (very high usage - net cafes etc)
MB limit : 10000
monthly charge : NZD 888 (IEP 311.81)
extra per MB : NZD 0.107 (IEP 0.037)

---

so there you go... crank the i-$cream bandwidth up to 2MB, add a free games server, and add three additional plans at the lower end of the business options and you might be offering what a similar-populated country has had for 2 years.

Then next year add the residential 128k unlimited traffic option for a tenner ...

as if

/*shakes fist at sky*/

pertinax

jetstream 400 : (residential and home business users)
MB limit : 400
monthly charge : NZD 49.00 (IEP 17.20)
extra per MB : NZD 0.20 (IEP 0.07)

what is this MB Limit 400?
It doesnt mean you can download only 400 megs a month and then start paying per meg does it ? Or is it soemthing to do with bandwith.
I must be thick or something.
Not too thick mind

irishguy

i would say you can only download 400megs then they charge,which is a bit steep. do u have a web site for it and ill give a look at it?

neverhappen

I read it as 400MB limit, then you pay the per MB charge.

link is http://www.telecom.co.nz

found reference here... list of worldwide dsl implementation statuses... http://www.point-topic.com/scripts/directory/

cmkrnl

[Snip interesting NZ info]

Which just goes to prove what I posted elsewhere. The f*ckers like the rest of their ilk are entirely producer driven & will gouge customers ad infinitum because they can get away with it. Somethings never change i'm afraid.


Cynical of London HA2.

greg

byte

I also will not be getting it. Though even if the prices do drop I will probably never see ADSL where I live so I would like to see an unmetered dial-up before Esat axes my NoLimits (keep it going Esat )

chernobyl

My line passed the Jet Stream test so i went ahead and ordered it.
Im sure the 15000KM of line they will have to lay down for me wont matter.




Will it or wont it arrive?....:)

El_MUERkO

hahahaha ROFL

neverhappen

Will it or wont it arrive?....

About as much chance of getting affordable I-$Cream...


Actually, surprise-surprise, it looks like the NZ prices are too high for the market there...

http://www.phoneplusinternational.com/articles/111sec4.html

(article from the start of the year)

and a quote...

--
While TCNZ remains more advanced and aggressive in its asymmetric DSL (ADSL) rollout when compared to Telstra, its price--around $100 per month--still means that broadband generally is unaffordable.

Budde predicts ADSL will achieve no more than a 2 to 3 percent penetration in the coming year.
--


So if its too expensive for them at NZD 100 (IEP 36.32)...

cmkrnl

Originally posted by neverhappen
Will it or wont it arrive?....

So if its too expensive for them at NZD 100 (IEP 36.32)...

Having talked to some kiwis in the past about what things cost out there I am not suprised.



greg

dardoz

i have been following ADSL developments the last few months here in Dublin waiting for the very second it was released to sign on the dotted linel. I was at least till I saw the joke of a price it is being offered at. This seems fine for businesses but they (eircom)obviously are not the least bit interested in providing for the residential users.

Something else Im curious about. Eircoms best customers with regards to the net in the past have been those forking out for ISDN. I realise you need to revert back to pstn lines to avail of ADSL so are they going to charge their best customers that extra £100 to change back to a normal analog line before they charge you another £100 for the adsl installation. Surely there must be some allowances for the ISDN users. I btw am one of them.

Lemming

Originally posted by dardoz
Surely there must be some allowances for the ISDN users.

Welcome to Monopoly-land!!! All users currently being $hafted by EirCON !! Thank you come again!

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dardoz
Something else Im curious about. Eircoms best customers with regards to the net in the past have been those forking out for ISDN. I realise you need to revert back to pstn lines to avail of ADSL so are they going to charge their best customers that extra £100 to change back to a normal analog line before they charge you another £100 for the adsl installation. Surely there must be some allowances for the ISDN users. I btw am one of them.

Yes. It is very likely that many people got ISDN as a stop-gap on the way to broadband. It is also likely that people got ISDN thinking it was some kind of broadband. ADSL is often marketed as "high speed" ("click here to get high speed" etc.) in other countries. Eircom may have taken advantage of the hype surrounding broadband in other countries to push their obsolete ISDN product.

I made some enquiries a few months ago with Eircom on this subject. It seems that if you have ISDN then you can't even be tested for ADSL since your line is not connected to the testing equipment.

So to find out if you are eligable for ADSL you have two options. 1) Downgrade to PSTN (£99) be tested. If you fail then upgrade back to ISDN (£99).

Alternatively, 2) Purchase a new PSTN line (£99) and have that tested. If you fail the test, you have just lost £99 and not £198. The danger with the second option is that you may be put on a carrier line or splitter, in which case you will fail the test anyway. Even for standard 56K access, you really need a straight copper pair. You are free to specify a copper pair, but if you end up on a shared line, you have no comeback.
Either way it is shocking. In Germany where they pushed ISDN heavily in the past, they now sell a form of ADSL which is compatible with ISDN. Here in Ireland, we get to pay Eircom extra because we swallowed their marketing.

Please note: this may have changed now. It has been some months since I made these enquiries.

infomat

Originally posted by SkepticOne


I made some enquiries a few months ago with Eircom on this subject. It seems that if you have ISDN then you can't even be tested for ADSL since your line is not connected to the testing equipment.

So to find out if you are eligable for ADSL you have two options. 1) Downgrade to PSTN (£99) be tested. If you fail then upgrade back to ISDN (£99).

Alternatively, 2) Purchase a new PSTN line (£99) and have that tested. If you fail the test, you have just lost £99 and not £198. The danger with the second option is that you may be put on a carrier line or splitter, in which case you will fail the test anyway. Even for standard 56K access, you really need a straight copper pair. You are free to specify a copper pair, but if you end up on a shared line, you have no comeback.
Either way it is shocking. In Germany where they pushed ISDN heavily in the past, they now sell a form of ADSL which is compatible with ISDN. Here in Ireland, we get to pay Eircom extra because we swallowed their marketing.

Please note: this may have changed now. It has been some months since I made these enquiries.

I checked with them about two weeks ago and your information is still current. Fortunately I have a spare line so what I will do (if I decide to spend the money) is try to get ADSL installed and if it is a success I will cancel my ISDN line. If I cannot get ADSL it will be necessary to review my usage of the Internet which is a poor reflection on Ireland as a modern country.

chernobyl

Originally posted by SkepticOne

It is also likely that people got ISDN thinking it was some kind of broadband. ADSL is often marketed as "high speed"

yup, lot of ppl got ISDN thinking that it would be broadband...frightening.
Eircoms ruthless advertising machine wins again.

Straker

Originally posted by SkepticOne

Yes. It is very likely that many people got ISDN as a stop-gap on the way to broadband... It seems that if you have ISDN then you can't even be tested for ADSL since your line is not connected... In Germany where they pushed ISDN heavily in the past, they now sell a form of ADSL which is compatible with ISDN.

<rant on>Bludy hell! That really makes my day! Damn!

As an ISDN subscriber, I hope €ircon will provide compatible ADSL for ISDN users. I'm at a loss as to why this kind of basic information isn't on €ircon's Website!?!

Not withstanding €ircon's existing price proposals, all these additional costs will only make ASDL even less enticing, even to the business community, and especially in the current commercial "climate".<rantoff>

corkie

*A monthly download allowance, included in the monthly recurring charge, applies to some of the eircom i-stream products. Once this allowance has been reached, a per Megabyte additional charge will be levied. See individual product descriptions for details. The regular monthly telephone line rental and normal voice call charges will be charged as usual.

So when people are working out the cost of it don't forget that this monthly charge for it is on top of your normal
IR£23.74 (excluding vat) bi-monthly line connection fee.

Pimp Ninja

Originally posted by Balfa
(PS - Pimp Ninja, you don't have a 2.5GB connection at work) [/B]

You are correct. We only have 2 155mb STM 1 connections. I wont mention the 2 reduntant lines.

Gambler

I like your thinking Gladiator,

How about something like this for a poll question that may help show Eircom that we REALLY want ADSL, just at a fair price..

At What Price would you get ADSL?

1) £40 for 512Up\128Down with 3 Gig Cap and 2.6p perMB over
2) £70 for 512Up\128Down with No Cap
3) I think the Charges are fine as they are