Another decision quandry:Golf GTI or BMW 320i SE

CrowdedHouse

Ok folks the next car decision is down to two contrasting cars here.
I like both cars.
The Golf GTI is great to drive,very lively if firm/hard on rough roads.Seems nicely finished and looks good.
It would cost me considerably less than the BMW even sfter adding a few extra toys such as leather and AC.The only thing is I have it in my head that its a small car,I have been used to driving A4 size cars.

The BMW is also good to drive,but nothing extraordinary.The SE spec is good and wouldn't need to add to it despite the efforts of the 'sales executive' to double the price with options,in fact you'd get the impression that you can't buy one without options.I'd like the diesel but couldn't justify the extra 5k on what is really a weekend car.

I hate to say it but the BMW seems the more 'sensible'car for me(I'm an aul' fella !!) but am tending towards the Golf at the moment.

Opinions please will have to order soon for the new year

Rodney Trotter

CrowdedHouse wrote:

Ok folks the next car decision is down to two contrasting cars here.
I like both cars.
The Golf GTI is great to drive,very lively if firm/hard on rough roads.Seems nicely finished and looks good.
It would cost me considerably less than the BMW even sfter adding a few extra toys such as leather and AC.The only thing is I have it in my head that its a small car,I have been used to driving A4 size cars.

The BMW is also good to drive,but nothing extraordinary.The SE spec is good and wouldn't need to add to it despite the efforts of the 'sales executive' to double the price with options,in fact you'd get the impression that you can't buy one without options.I'd like the diesel but couldn't justify the extra 5k on what is really a weekend car.

I hate to say it but the BMW seems the more 'sensible'car for me(I'm an aul' fella !!) but am tending towards the Golf at the moment.

Opinions please will have to order soon for the new year

Golf. BMW Ireland shouldn't be supported with their OTT pricing policies and crap Customer Service.


BTW No-one should ever buy a 4 cylinder Petrol BMW!

kdevitt

Rodney Trotter wrote:

Golf. BMW Ireland shouldn't be supported with their OTT pricing policies and crap Customer Service.

BTW No-one should ever buy a 4 cylinder Petrol BMW!

The 4 cylinder valvetronic engine is said to be superior to the 2.2 6 cylinder, so it wouldn't put me off the BMW.

Am a BMW head to be honest, but would go with the Golf given the same choice...more lively, and a better looking car as standard imho.

shayser

I've never driven the BMW.

As for the Golf, I've just got one...

It's a great car. Drives lovely on twisty county roads, yet glides along effortlessly in 6th gear on the motorway. Very torquey, so gear changing is minimal and overtaking in top gear is a breeze The seats are the most comfortable I've ever sat in, real body hugging. Regular trips from Dublin to Donegal bear this out. The journey seems so much shorter that when in my prevous car.

Has plenty of equipment as standard... loads of little surprises everywhere.

And when you do put your foot down you cannot help but grin. It purrs lovely round town but roars when you hit the open road.. yep, I love the car

The drive can feel firm on bumpy roads as you say, but it's not in any way harsh. It just feels solid.

For a small looking car, it has plenty of room for me and there is still leg room in the back when the front seats are pushed all the way back.

Searching hard for gripes... at night the lights from the dash/cd player reflect in the windscreen and drivers side window and does catch my eye. I'm short, 5ft 8in, and the centre arm rest (option) is just an inch or two too short when extended and catches my elbow when pushed back. I might take it out but might keep it either as it is also a good sized storage compartment. But these are very small irritants, had to think hard to come up with them.

That's something of my thoughts on the Golf, sorry don't know about the bmw. Maybe somebody else...

RicardoSmith

I haven't driven either the new golf or the bmw. But I'd go for the golf. Theres lots of 320's around but only a few Golf GTI's.

michaelanthony

Meh go fro the VW. The BM is a bit poverty spec.

CrowdedHouse

Thanks for the input lads.
Almost decided on the GTI,at the haggle stage.

Had to laugh - one guy was playing the SSIA card........'everyone will want new cars[next year].....sure you probably have a few quid coming yourself..' (and let me relieve you of it !!)

mackerski

The BMW should, in principle, be the better car, but I also fail to see the point of a poverty spec beemer.

Dermot

RicardoSmith

That phrase poverty spec annoys me. Its a very shallow form of badge snobbery.

mackerski

RicardoSmith wrote:

That phrase poverty spec annoys me. Its a very shallow form of badge snobbery.

Not my intention - I think it's an apt phrase, and I use it to describe any make or model of car with all the "nice" stuff stripped out. To me it's more a symptom of the VRT culture than anything else.

Dermot

kdevitt

mackerski wrote:

Not my intention - I think it's an apt phrase, and I use it to describe any make or model of car with all the "nice" stuff stripped out. To me it's more a symptom of the VRT culture than anything else.

Dermot

The SE is the model with all the nice stuff in it though, can't see why its poverty spec??

RicardoSmith

mackerski wrote:

Not my intention - I think it's an apt phrase, and I use it to describe any make or model of car with all the "nice" stuff stripped out. To me it's more a symptom of the VRT culture than anything else.

Dermot

Its the fat arse culture. You don't want a car. You want a fat arm chair. All it adds is weight, higher fuel consuption and dilutes the driving experience. That siad, if all you do is sit in traffic 90% of the time, (like me) I can understand. But I don't have to like it. Regardless of what gadgets there are, its basically the same car underneath.

glynf

I take it you are buying new next jan, you should consider the new IS250, out next month.
Comes in around 44k, and 48k for the top spec, much higher equip as standard
compared to the BMW.
Also a mate at work with an IS 200 never had a bad word to say about the dealer, apart from the servicing costs-bmw territory.
I was leaning twoards a 3er next year, but am holding out for the 2.2 diesel(jan), but have a test drive booked on the petrol.





lexus.ie

specs

unkel

The Mark V Golf GTI for sure is a much better car than the lame Mark IV. I have never been interested in 4 cylinder petrol BMWs, it is not the core competence of the company. But to seriously compare the two when buying new seems a bit odd to me. The BMW is not only a full class size bigger, but also in a different league in terms of build quality and I dare not mention style, class and resale value

mackerski wrote:

I also fail to see the point of a poverty spec beemer.

RicardoSmith wrote:

That phrase poverty spec annoys me. Its a very shallow form of badge snobbery.

Hold your hats, gents. In the past BMWs sold in Ireland indeed had very minimal specs. For quite some time now, BMWs sold here are imported by BMW themselves and have the exact same, very high, spec as BMWs sold in Britain

*Disclaimer: I have never driven a 4 cylinder BMW

Seth Brundle

@ unklel & 4 pots - E30 M3!

Im not sure which model the OP is considering of 320i but whilst the previous model (E46) was 6 pot the new E90 was attacked by an angle grinder and had 2 cylinders removed.

mackerski

RicardoSmith wrote:

Its the fat arse culture. You don't want a car. You want a fat arm chair. All it adds is weight, higher fuel consuption and dilutes the driving experience. That siad, if all you do is sit in traffic 90% of the time, (like me) I can understand. But I don't have to like it. Regardless of what gadgets there are, its basically the same car underneath.

I'll try to put my attitude in context. I have a 5-minute commute by car, and most of my other motoring is leisure, some of it over longish distances, most of it in uncongested traffic. To me, a car should drive well, and that's the basis for any purchasing decision.

But there are aspects of fit-out which are often deficient. That applies from the cheaper end of the scale, where manufacturers chop out everything but the steering wheel to keep their city runabout cheaper than the competition, right up to supposedly luxury cars, where manufacturers chop out everything but the steering wheel to keep prospective customers from fainting when they see the VRT-swelled price tag.

And there's the rub. If a naked BMW is already so much more expensive than, say, a Ford or VW, you like to think you get some comforts for your money. Everybody has different priorities. Some people want leather or neato body trim. I prefer things that Do Stuff. One reason it's nice to drive a beemer is the array of Stuff in the cockpit. A barebones model actually feels barebones - there's just too much unused space where the navigation system and bum-warmer switches should be.

So it depends on priorities. When another road-user catches me picking my nose at the lights, it doesn't much bother me whether they looked past a BMW or Skoda badge on the bonnet. But I want good quality audio, a picture of my car on the map and a tolerable interior temperature, and a barebones beemer wouldn't give me any of those things.

Dermot

CrowdedHouse

Im not sure which model the OP is considering of 320i but whilst the previous model (E46) was 6 pot the new E90 was attacked by an angle grinder and had 2 cylinders removed.

I was looking at an E90 which is 1995cc 4 cyl.I was considering the SE spec which is well equipped.The basic 320i is pretty basic-for instance steel wheels on a 40K car.
I also drove the 320d which is really nice and feels like it has a bit of grunt in it but is just too expensive in SE trim- around 49K and I couldn't justify the cost.
I'm not totally convinced about the look of the E90,the E46 was a more elegant style.
I only use my car at the weekends - my 04 A4 TDI has just 9090 miles on the clock.
The difference is cabin space and(apparent) build quality between the BM and the GTI is not great.The demo GTI I tried had 8000 km on the clock and I was listening carefully for squeaks and rattles- there were none.The difference in performance is major.
Think I will order the GTI,I just think its better value for me at the moment.

RicardoSmith

I can understand why if you spend 40K plus you think it should have at least as much kit as a 12l fiat. Or that you like your toys, fair enough. But theres lots of people who don't want a load of crap in the car, its just more to go wrong, and when it does it will cost more to fix. Lots of people prefer less is more. Its a question of choice, than cost a lot of the time. If they wanted all the crap they could get a smaller engine and more kit. But if someone buys a base model, you have to ask why did they not get the cheaper car with all the kit?

In this case however the 320 and the GTI are very different styles of cars. Ones a hot hatch (if a large one) and the other a family/exec saloon. I've driven a few base spec 318s of the outgoing model and I thought they were very nice. The only thing I thought was stingy in them was the lack of a CD, and personally I'd go for a Sunroof over AC. However I like GTI's used to have a Mrk2 so the mrk V is meant to be a return to a nice driving GTI after the flabby Mrk3 and mrk4. On a practical level theres not much more space in a 320 than there is in a Golf. So I think you'd only choose the 320 if you didn't like the hot hatch image (even if it is sutble).

michaelanthony

kdevitt wrote:

The SE is the model with all the nice stuff in it though, can't see why its poverty spec??

If it doesn't have leather, wood and an auto gearbox, it's called peverty spec. .

mackerski

I agree with pretty much everything you've [Ricardo] just said. It's why you'll never hear me refer to a "poverty spec Punto", for instance. My personal reasoning for getting AC was that I lived in Southern Germany, where a sun roof is no guarantee of adequate cooling. That particular purchasing decision was made during a 2-hour stoppage in an Italian traffic jam with the car registering 40 degrees.

I took a sunroof too, mind you. Those were the days...

Dermot

RicardoSmith

"leather, wood and an auto gearbox" = Fat arsed old git spec.

WTF have weather conditions in southern europe got to do with buying a car in Ireland? :rolleyes:

mackerski

RicardoSmith wrote:

WTF have weather conditions in southern europe got to do with buying a car in Ireland? :rolleyes:

Nothing whatsoever - I didn't buy it in Ireland. But if you substitute Sunroof for AC in my purhcasing decisions, it'll pretty much make sense.

Dermot

kdevitt

michaelanthony wrote:

If it doesn't have leather, wood and an auto gearbox, it's called peverty spec. .

Thanks for clearing that up - think I'll skip buying the M3 CSL now....Wouldn't be seen dead in a peverty spec BMW :rolleyes:

CrowdedHouse

RicardoSmith wrote:

On a practical level theres not much more space in a 320 than there is in a Golf. So I think you'd only choose the 320 if you didn't like the hot hatch image (even if it is sutble).

Nail - on - head there Ricardo !

RicardoSmith

mackerski wrote:

Nothing whatsoever - I didn't buy it in Ireland. But if you substitute Sunroof for AC in my purhcasing decisions, it'll pretty much make sense. Dermot

Only to you. Theres lots of reasons to CHOOSE NOT to have all the electrical gizmo's in a car. However you reasoning is because you want all the gadgets everyone else should have them, mainly because thats what your idea of car is. If you choose not to have them, then you say its having a "poverty" spec which is simply being a snob and condecending. In plain english you are saying that they are too poor to buy a model with all the kit. That argument is stupid, because ultimate it suggests everyones ambition is to own a top of the range s class or maybach or Zonta with every extra possible.

However lots of people choose to run a morris minor, or an Elise, an old Porsche, a Camper Van, a beetle, (old or new) a base model whatever, or even just a bicycle. Lost of people buy new cars with little electrical kit, becuase they've had expensive touble with electrical kit in the past, or simply, they don't need or want it.

However if you answer to which to buy between BWM320SE and a GTI, is not to buy the "povery spec" sorry but to me thats just being a snob.

RicardoSmith

kdevitt wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up - think I'll skip buying the M3 CSL now....Wouldn't be seen dead in a peverty spec BMW :rolleyes:

That doesn't have a radio... Mind you calling poverty spec on sports cars, especially those intended for track use is a bit misleading. No base spec is people who aren't into cars, they just want something to go from A-B which will give them as little grief as possible. Some people just aren't into cars. They aren't willing to pay xtra for gizmos. So obviously they'll go for a base spec.

You can be a fan of having loads of kit in a car. But you don't have to be a snob about it.

I'm not saying that the're aren't badge snobs who buy the base model just to get the badge. Obviously they are. But you can't label every one with the same stereotype.

RicardoSmith

RicardoSmith wrote:

O...Lost of people buy new cars with little electrical kit, becuase they've had expensive touble with electrical kit in the past,...

I've just read your posts in this thread. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=312320 :cool:

mackerski

RicardoSmith wrote:

Only to you. Theres lots of reasons to CHOOSE NOT to have all the electrical gizmo's in a car. However you reasoning is because you want all the gadgets everyone else should have them, mainly because thats what your idea of car is. If you choose not to have them, then you say its having a "poverty" spec which is simply being a snob and condecending.

FFS, somebody is being a little touchy today. I've explained my own purchasing rationale for cars, and have zero issue with what anybody else chooses to do. I have no preconceived notions of what a car should be - my own car history is very firmly biased towards the banger end of the scale.

You yourself questioned the sense of not having a CD player, and it is that kind of omission that causes me (personally) to consider a base-spec BMW a less-desirable purchase. To me, "poverty spec" is a relevant, jokey description of a base fit-out that just reeks of the accountant's scissors trying to hit a price-point.

Maybe I'd consider the term more barbed if it were frequently used by people who really do have enough readies to lash out on the extras - I don't believe I've ever heard the term used by any such lucky individual. Maybe I'm just uncouth - when I went to school, folks in the pass-maths leaving cert class liked to gleefully claim to be doing "Spa Maths". Some terms are just apt.

Dermot

RicardoSmith

You might as well said don't buy a black car, because you don't like them. Your not making any other case for your line of argument. As for being touchy, well its a discussion forum, and I'm disagreeing with you. As for a CD player, well few people use cassettes these days, and a CDP is the same if not cheaper than a cassette deck. Certainly a CD player wouldn't make or break my decision on a car. That would be kinda trival when you are spending tens of thousands of euro. :rolleyes:

In the UK the spec list is more important as they are used to getting all the extras included, without having to pay and arm and a leg for them. My mate imported a new car into the UK and made sure to spec it the same as the UK model, as he did his research and reckoned it would impact signifcantly on the resale of the car. However its only certain models that require this. In Ireland however I reckon the majoirty of cars are base spec. Theres no point paying out 5k in extra to gain 1k on the resale. If you were to lose 5k if you didn't have the extras then that would be different. Usually its the very high end luxury cars that are effected by this. Big merc's, Coupes, Convertibles etc.

Seth Brundle

Just for reference as it is being used with the above argument - a CD player (with 6 speakers) is standard on the E90 3er*. It is also i-pod ready!


*as are a number of other features that are often considered extras on other models, e.g. front fogs, armrest, reach & height adjustable steering wheel, automatic seat belt tensioners, 6 speed SMG, leather steering wheel, toolkit, warning triangle, first aid kit, ISOFIX child seat fixings, TC, DSC, CBC, etc.

Cmar-Ireland

Forget the VW and the BMW, buy the Lexus. Head and shoulders above the others.

glynf wrote:

I take it you are buying new next jan, you should consider the new IS250, out next month.
Comes in around 44k, and 48k for the top spec, much higher equip as standard
compared to the BMW.
Also a mate at work with an IS 200 never had a bad word to say about the dealer, apart from the servicing costs-bmw territory.
I was leaning twoards a 3er next year, but am holding out for the 2.2 diesel(jan), but have a test drive booked on the petrol.





lexus.ie

specs