Ireland v Switz (scores, everything)

AARRRGH

Anyone who puts a defender in midfield for a game we must win and then takes off a striker for Doherty is one baaaad decision maker.

MisterAnarchy

If Ireland had qualified for the play offs we would have been seeded in the second pot,so we would had to play either Spain,Czech Republic or Turkey.
All formiddable opponents.
FIFA are such jokers,seeding the playoffs is not on.

AARRRGH

Slightly OT, but you do know the Albania v Turkey game was rigged? Free money!

masterK

It's got to be said in the cold light of day that we simply are not good enough. Kerr has shown himself to be average at very best. I'm still in shock with him taking a striker off for Doherty so close to the end of the match, what the hell had we got to lose at that stage. Another really irritating thing was the decision to play Andy Reid on the right of midfield, has the penny not dropped that it just does not work playing him there?

If I were the FAI I would be getting down on my hands and knees begging Martin O'Neill to take the job, he is a manager who proven to get the best from average teams.

Villain

Brian Kerr made some of the worst decisions I have ever seen last night.

I'm still so mad, I mean ffs O'Shea and Holland in the middle and S Reid and Kavanagh on the bench, then when we really need a goal he takes off our best striker!!!

Sorry Brian but you are out of your league imo.

IMO bring in either O'Neill or O'Leary.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Bring back McCarthy, at least he would have given it a go.

masterK

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Bring back McCarthy, at least he would have given it a go.

I hope that comment is made in jest.

Chong

In light of ppl crucifying Brian Kerr dose anyone actually have anyt viable suggestions for a new Ireland manager. I doubt David O'Leary would be interested, Martin O'Niell maybe, but who knows maybe Ireland could get a foreign manager.:)

Bard

WDK wrote:

In light of ppl crucifying Brian Kerr dose anyone actually have anyt viable suggestions for a new Ireland manager. I doubt David O'Leary would be interested, Martin O'Niell maybe, but who knows maybe Ireland could get a foreign manager.:)

Roy Keane.

With Eamonn Dunphy as his "ghost" manager.

Big Nelly

Ok!!!! Im pi**ed!!! luckly I got off early and got to watch the last 30 mins!! I should have stayed in law! more exciting!!! now let get this straight! Kerr must go!! I have been a great supporter of his but since the last few weeks and his inept management we need a change! like FFS Doherty and they take off Morrison!! your trying to win the match you f**kin gobsh*t!!!!

Anyway I would move Kerr into a Director type role taking over control of the youth teams.....get rid of that muppet in charge of the u21's....name gone now cause hangover time!........agreed more or less with everything the lads had to say on RTE2 or watever it is called.....Kerr has lost the plot....like every person with any sort of footie brain can see Carr is having a nightmare and Finnan is in the best form of his career!! wat happens he picks the wrong one!! gobsh*t!!!!

Has made himself out to be a clown!! he is out of his depth!!! as Dunphy said why isnt Quinn in the squad???? I have watched this lad from grass root for Wednesday and then he did the worst thing possible and joined Utd but I can still see his class.....he is a great player!! he was dropped out of the squad a while ago and Miller was brought in............like what the f**k???? this guy hasnt done anything in 18 months......

We needed clas tonite! we needed skill! we put O'Shea in midfield! now I may be biased but I have seen a few people who have backed me up here! where the f**k is Whelan????? he has been Shef Wed best player since his move from Man City!! surely he would have been better than O'Shea!!! he can pass, play and shoot from every angle which was needed last nite!!

The panel last nite said it was going to be hard for the manager! I say bulls**t! we have a good enought young squad with very few over 30...Keane(gone)....Kilbane(no loss)....Kavanagh(f**king joke)...>Cunningham(loss but Dunne will replace).....cant think of anymore first team players......we have Quinn, Whelan, O'Brien, McGready if that ginger would let him play coming thru......ask Wales or Scotland about troubled times....they will tell you!"!!!

Mind you I must say this is the best squad I have seen Ireland have since Italy 90 and wat do we go and do!! f**k everything up!! Kerr to go and if anyone defends him they havent a clue about football.....

Anyway have hangover.....in bad mood.....and have a full days work ahead of me!! SACK KERR

masterK

Martin O'Neill is the best canditate by a mile IMO. He has proven with both Leicester and Celtic that he can get the very best out of players. It's hard to say if he would take with his wife being ill. Although an international manager position might be ideal for him, as he would be both involved in football and would still have a fair amount of time off.

Villain

Ok I'm probably been a little biased here, but I really would like to see O'Leary get the job, I mean can anyone name any other manager that has played at the highest level for Ireland (remember that peno v Romania) and managed at the highest level in one of the best leagues in the world???

Big Nelly

irish1 wrote:

Ok I'm probably been a little biased here, but I really would like to see O'Leary get the job, I mean can anyone name any other manager that has played at the highest level for Ireland (remember that peno v Romania) and managed at the highest level in one of the best leagues in the world???

Would he take it???? Im not so sure thats why I am going with O'Neill....like O'Leary!! he will galvanise players!!!

Villain

Big Nelly wrote:

Would he take it???? Im not so sure thats why I am going with O'Neill....like O'Leary!! he will galvanise players!!!

Well maybe it's a bit too soon for him, but was quoted last year saying he would love to manage Ireland some day.

redspider

A win in this match was needed for Ireland to progress, but the Irish team last night failed miserably in their quest. The Swiss had the better of the chances, and if it werent for Given, Ireland would have lost. Ireland at best created a couple of quarter chances, and a miracle "luck" goal or piece of brilliance was needed and neither came.

Its probably not a game that deserves of any deep analysis. Indeed, Ireland's failure to qualify is one thing, but they way they failed may be more of a deeper malaise in Irish football. Are we seeing the start of Ireland moving towards the same levels of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland, notwithstanding the fact that these nations in recent games seem to be improving.

There is obviously a Manager/Staff issue. Clearly a new manager may do some things differently. But whether that s enough to make a big difference with the material thats available, only time will tell.

The team lined out thus:

---

Given

---

Carr - Cunningham - Dunne - Harte
A Reid - Holland - O'Shea - Kilbane
---- Robbie K -- Morrison --


Not the team I would have picked. Off to a bad start before a ball was kicked. Before the match it was discussed if bringing in Harte was a good thing, and putting O'Shea in midfield. I ws against that as it posed too many risks. O'Shea not good enough in midfield, Harte poor at the back. I was hoping that Kilbane would be dropped, that A Reid would be played on the left. But that was not to be.

There were some lack-lustre performances, indeed poor. Given was brilliant again. Thanks Shay. Carr did an ok job. The close header from Frei may have seemed like his error, but on replay it looked like both him and Cunningham stepped up to play the offside trap, but Dunne didnt. Whether Dunne didnt hear the shout, or was asleep is unknown, but it left Frei with an unchallenged header which went inches wide.

Carr didnt do enough going up front but himself and Andy Reid were having difficulty. Andy had just one trick on the night, and that was coming inside. He was also very uncontrolled and could have found himself sent off in the 1st half.

Matt Holland had some composure at times and with O'Shea, they did a much better job than Kavanagh and Kilbane did in the previous match. However, he seemed to lack fitness and I spotted him jogging up and down the pitch for most of the 2nd half. His contribution was poor. O'Shea in a way did better, although neither player had the wherewithall to be able to link up creatively with the other players and to create.

Kilbane was woeful again. He tries, as someone says, 110% for him, but that is about 55% or less of what a player should be. He is just not good enough I'm afraid, and Kerr's over-loyalty to players like him have stung Ireland.

Harte's dead ball skills were far from 100% last night, not a surprise. We didnt get one free kick from outside the box, and he would have needed about 3 of them to have a reasonable chance of scoring. Indeed, Ireland's best chance of the match came from Harte after a couple of mins when he missed the target from yards out, although there was a goalie and two defenders on the post to beat. Still, it was a chance.

I was very dissapointed in Robbie K. He tried, but he couldnt get into any good positions, his supply didnt suit him at all, and the Swiss defence and midfield had him and Morrison in their pocket. The antics of Morrison didnt help. He got sucked into a pulling match with Senderos and gave away more free kicks than winning them. A smarter striker would have used this pulling and dragging to his advantage. A Reid tried many cross balls dropping at a low trajectory on the 18 yard line, but this was bread and butter for the Swiss "chees" defence.

I would have had Stephen Reid in the centre of midfield from the start. Perhaps with Holland, although Holland should have been subbed last night.
Elliot should have been brought on for Kilbane. There was little point in taking Robbie off, as he is still a player that can latch on to that half-chance and finish it. Perhaps he did get one in the match, unfortunately he went for the overhead instead of perhaps taking a touch to bring it under some control.

As always, it was pointless bringing on Gary Doherty. In the past I have called for Doherty to be removed from the squad, never mind getting a run out.

So, its a time to take stock, a back to the drawing board situation. No doubt that a new manager will come in when Kerr's contract runs out. Brian cant be too miffed about that now, especially on the way that Ireland were knocked out. You wouldnt mind if they went all out last night, hit the woodwork 5 times and had the Swiss under the cosh for most of the match, and if they did something similar against Cyprus. But, we were far from that, so Kerr can have no quibbles, even though he has only been in the helm for a relatively short time.

In terms of a new manager, perhaps Dave O'Leary part-time, maybe it would suit Martin O'Neill, although I dont think he is as good as everybody is making out. A new manager should give us a new start. Also, there will be a player clear out. Kilbane, probably has to go now. Cunningham, through no fault of his own, is just getting too old and slow. Roy K, just has to go now. There is an argument, one that Brady adheres to and there is some credence to it, that bringing back Roy was a mistake, as it didnt allow a replacement midfield to develop. We could have used that replacement midfield last night.

At the end of the day, we are probably better not going to the world cup if the last few matches are the type of performances we were going to deliver. We clearly dont deserve to go to the world cup, so there can be no quibbles from the fans really.

redspider

gracehopper

i dont think that Martin o neill would take on that pool of players. They could ruin his career. I said last night that they had no heart but now that i look at it we just dont have any quality anywhere except in Shay Given. Roy Keane is passed it and Damien Duff hasnt done it for us since japan in 2002.Give Shay Given the freedom of the country and the captains armband!!

cournioni

We just aren't good enough lads. Just accept it.

Duff had a poor campeign, as did Robbie Keane, and Roy only got playing around 4 or 5 games. Ireland played poorly in nearly all of the games they played except for the one in France where they were unlucky not to win. Apart from that who can remember Ireland putting in a really good performance?

I'm glad we didn't make it to the world cup, because if we made it, it wouldn't have been merited and we would have made a show of ourselves in Germany.

I put part of this down to Brian Kerr, he's the one who makes the decisions and he made some terrible ones during the qualifying. Seeing Doherty come on is when I always either walk out of the pub or switch off the tv, the guy is shíte. Kevin Doyle or David Connolly are proven goalscorers regardless of the level they are playing at, they should be the priority subs when Ireland need a goal. Simple as. It is so frustrating to see Doherty come on and just give away frees, sure I can do that!

The other part is down to Duff and Robbie Keane, these guys are supposed to be our star men and they have not stood up to be counted for Ireland for quite a while now. They should stand up now and say that they are part of the reason why Ireland haven't performed.

On the other hand I must commend the performances of Shay Given, Andy Reid and Stephen Elliott. They should give themselves a pat on the back for what they have contributed to Ireland's qualifying campeign. Hopefully they can bring this into the Euro Quals.

My team for the Euro Quals.:

Given (captain)

Harte
Kelly
O'Brien
Dunne

Duff
A. Reid
Whelan
S. Reid

Keane
Elliott

Subs:
Kenny
Carr
Finnan
O'Shea
Quinn
Ireland
McGeady
Morrison
Doyle

We must blood some youngsters into the team and keep them in the team rather than sticking with dead wood like Kilbane etc. We may not qualify for the Euros but it will give us a chance to qualify for WC 2010.

cournioni

Oh yes, and the FAI should do whatever it takes to get Martin O'Neill to become manager. We need someone with passion, charisma and above all tactical knowledge to manage our players.

Bard

http://www.fai.ie/article.asp?hlid=315658&Title=Brian+Kerr+refuses+to+discuss+his+future&lid=Main+News&sub=Brian+Kerr+refuses+to+discuss+his+future&navlid=&sublid=

gracehopper

PORNAPSTER wrote:

The other part is down to Duff and Robbie Keane, these guys are supposed to be our star men and they have not stood up to be counted for Ireland for quite a while now. They should stand up now and say that they are part of the reason why Ireland haven't performed.

i agree with this. Of all the bad players that are getting a start for ireland Duff and Keane are half decent. These are the attacking options that should be doing it for us. Duff would not get away with playing for chelsea the way he has played for us throughout the campaign. Robbie Keane @ 19 had the world at his feet i specifically remember his full debut against argentina and he was the best player on the pitch. His unprofessionalism has let him down since then. Its these players i have been more disappointed with throughout the campaign as i know they can perform to higher standards than what they have done

Raskolnikov

1/ Shay Given 7
Didn't have much to do for the night but handled everything that was thrown at him.

2/ Stephen Carr 4
Very poor, as ineffective going forward as he was in defence. It was incredible that he played rather than Finnan.

3/ Ian Harte 5
Poor at set peices, he's got shockingly little pace and was caught out once or twice by the few Swiss attacks down the left hand side. If we had have been attacked hard by the Swiss, I think he would have crumbled.

4/ Richard Dunne 7
I think he was our best player of the game, was solid in defence, kept most of the Swiss attacks out. Towards the end he was the only player (along with S. Reid) to try and get forward and go win the game.

5/ Kenny Cunningham 6
Average at best, gave Frei an open header on goal that could have cost us the game. He doesn't inspire confidence, I don't think it'd be a loss if he retired from international duty after this qualification stage.

6/ Matt Holland 6
Seemed to have been suited to a ball-winning/holding midfield role, when we required him to get forward and link up play with the two front men, he failed miserably. I wouldn't assign blame to him though, it was an error on Kerr's behalf in playing two defensive midfield player in the centre of the park when we needed to win this game.

7/ Andy Reid 5
Didn't do great but I really don't think he can be blamed. He was forced to play on the right side of midfield when he is clearly a left sided player. S. Reid should have taken up the right and Andy the left, if that had happened, I honestly think we might just have had a chance.

8/ John O'Shea 3
Anonymous as Holland did most of his work in the defensive midfield role. I honestly can't even remember him getting a touch of the ball. Should be a squad player who is only brough in under the worst injury crisis.

9/ Clinton Morrison 5
He was poor, I felt for him though, any ball that was played to him was either mis-hit or so high that he was always beaten by the defender to it. certainly wasn't the worst player on the field today for Ireland.

10/ Robbie Keane 4
He was terrible, any ball played to him seemed to just bounce off his shin or be given away. I know the supply was poor, but he should have done a lot better.

11/ Kevin Kilbane 3
Like John O' Shea, it was incredible that he was playing. Even more incredible that Andy Reid was forced into playing on the right so has to accomodate him. he'll never have the ability to play in Ireland's first team I'm afraid.

Substitutes:

12/ Stephen Elliot 6
Should have played from the start. Did alright when he came on, tried to get on the end of passes and link up play. I was disapointed he didn't get more time to prove himself.

13/ Stephen Reid 7
Same as Elliot, he worked hard when he got on, was not afraid to get forward and nearly responsible for scoring. He should be our second choice after Duff and readily available on the bench to bring on.

14/ Ginger Pele 0
Plays in the reserves for Norwich, says it all really.

blu_sonic

alot of casses of playing for club not for country, they walked off the pitch last night like it was a friendly, didn't seem phased by the occasion i really question the players dedication, its a pity the EL hasn't the quality bacause atleast they would give it their all, point incase clinton morrission told he'd never play for england andsuddenly he's a paddy? come on they just wat the caps.


antbody see mike basset england manager? when ireland come past england in the airport? england shout heres the england b team, funny, sad, true (although changing)

blu_sonic

Raskolnikov wrote:

3/ Ian Harte 5
Poor at set peices, he's got shockingly little pace and was caught out once or twice by the few Swiss attacks down the left hand side. If we had have been attacked hard by the Swiss, I think he would have crumbled.

i'd give a 7 thought he gave a good account of himself, althought thats compared to the rest of the team i guess carr was so poor how did he do 90min?

why take off robbie atleast he's a goal getter better to go out in a blaze of glory than whimper into the night as we did he should have finishe with 4 up front, 3 at the back and 3 in the middle

Big Nelly

blu_sonic wrote:

antbody see mike basset england manager? when ireland come past england in the airport? england shout heres the england b team, funny, sad, true (although changing)

To be honest thats a pile of bulls**t!! maybe a few years ago but the majority of the squad is from Ireland and are proud of it!! why dont you actually check out where the players are from instead of quoting c**p from the 90's!!!

Would love to see you say that to Dunne as he was nearly in tears last night on the tv after the game when he was being interviewed!!!

blu_sonic

and you'll see i said changing

agreed he did seem upset but o'shea was smiling while walking off

Big Nelly

blu_sonic wrote:

and you'll see i said changing

agreed he did seem upset but o'shea was smiling while walking off

I didnt see anyone smiling when they went off!! see the face on Given???? and what you mean by changing??????? seeing as you know so much can you name all the England B team(as you call them) without going to google? wats the bets the answer is no!!!

blu_sonic

matt holland, Kevin Kilbane, clinton morrisson, steven reid, were all of another nationality admitted its better than the charlton era and being of an english/irish parent and having lived in london myself i don't have a problem with it, just some times i think that it means more to the irish born players, that the players born out of ireland are only playing for us because the wouldn't get a game with their own country

blu_sonic

Big Nelly wrote:

seeing as you know so much can you name all the England B team(as you call them) without going to google? wats the bets the answer is no!!!

why are you getting so agressive?

Big Nelly

blu_sonic wrote:

why are you getting so agressive?

not getting aggressive but sick of people going on about the Irish team as the English B team....what an insult to the team and also to the country!! if you cant see that well then you shouldnt call youself irish!! I see player out there like Given, Dunne, Reid, Keane, Eliott, Duff and so on playing there heart out for the Irish flag and then someone comes around and says they are the England B team.......it annoys me!!! when you see a man like Dunne on TV ready to cry because it meant so much to him about getting to World cup but just couldnt get there(as explained above I blame manager) and the next day he gets up to read comments like "the english B team" what do you think he feels like?????

por

A couple of points on Kerr.
From this quote in the BBC and what I heard on RTE radio this morning it seems Kerr is not blaming the draws with Israel for our failure, rather the loss to France.

If you look at the top four teams in the group, in the 12 matches between them 11 were draws. That is how close it was.
The moment of magic by Henry against us gave France the edge.

What on earth is he talking about, if we had drawn (we were not going to win) with the French then we would still not have made the top 2 on goal difference. If we had taken 6 point from the Israelis then we would be on 21 and topped the group.
He has seriously lost it, and leaving JOS on all night only adds to my sense of bewilderment about this man.
As for a new manager, O’Neill might be tough to get, O' Leary has yet to prove himself in a situation where he does not have access to cash and Brady was a joke at both Celtic and Brighton (although during a interview on ‘Play it again Des’ he blamed the board at both for his failings).
I believe we have to go and get a European to do it, like those that have helped Asian and African teams in the past.

Big Nelly

blu_sonic wrote:

matt holland, Kevin Kilbane, clinton morrisson, steven reid, were all of another nationality admitted its better than the charlton era and being of an english/irish parent and having lived in london myself i don't have a problem with it, just some times i think that it means more to the irish born players, that the players born out of ireland are only playing for us because the wouldn't get a game with their own country

I give you Clinto, but he has always played well since he declared for Ireland.....the rest of the players you mention might have been born in england but are no less Irish than you or me!! you mean to tell me Kilbane/Holland/Reid ever tried to declare themselves for England???? no chance!! I remember years and years ago when Holland was playing for Colchester and there was rumours of Barca making a move for him(was playing in old 4th division then and a scout had seen him).....the English media jumped on him and asked about playing for u21's.....he turned round and said he would play for Ireland u21's....he was an Irish man.,......

Kilbane is a very proud Irish man and always has been and Reid is the same.......

My brother was born in England when my parents worked over there!! is he an English man??????

blu_sonic

Big Nelly wrote:

if you cant see that well then you shouldnt call youself irish!!

thats just a silly statment, i never called them the b team it was in a film, i did say true after it because it is partially true, you've latched on to a small part of my post (in fact a disposable footnote) and blown it up into a huge statment of intent. i watched the match on rte o'shea had a grin on his puss while leaving the pitch, i think that given and dunne looked distraught, i bet harte and a few more were peeved but the way they played lacked spirit and dedication, morrission was doing stupid things all match, carr was useless, if they upped their game for it like i expected them to we would have beaten the swiss.

yom 1

Duff may not have preformed to the standard that we know he can but IMO this has more to do with the fact that teams have persistantly stook 2 and sometimes 3 players on him because they know he is our big threat. Now for me that should leave a lot of room for other players to take advantage of, but never happened.

Ireland and Kerr were simply not good enough over the course of the campaign. The writing was on the wall for Ireland after throwing away points, 4 points at that against Israel. Whatever about the away game but the home game was a disgrace. And this is without a doubt Brian Kerr's fault. I mean who brings on a sub and in doin so has to play 4 players out of position instead of just bringing on a replacement striker. Kerr has been shown up in this campaign for his complete lack of tactical ability. I mean everybody in the country could see that Finnan diserved his place ahead of Carr yet Carr got the nod. O'Shea is a disaster and quite simply the WORST player to ever pull on the irish jersey, yet Kerr sticks him in one the most important positions on the pitch and in doing so plays him out of position.

The only good thing that comes out of last nights game is the fact that it forces big changes to the whole set-up of the Irish team, from management to getting rid of the deadwood and also bleeding in the younger players.

Big Nelly

blu_sonic wrote:

thats just a silly statment, i never called them the b team it was in a film, i did say true after it because it is partially true, you've latched on to a small part of my post (in fact a disposable footnote) and blown it up into a huge statment of intent. i watched the match on rte o'shea had a grin on his puss while leaving the pitch, i think that given and dunne looked distraught, i bet harte and a few more were peeved but the way they played lacked spirit and dedication, morrission was doing stupid things all match, carr was useless, if they upped their game for it like i expected them to we would have beaten the swiss.

Why mention it so???? I dont see anyone else on here mentioning anything about the England B team.....

Anyway as I explained the problem last night was the manager and not the team....they had no direction! didnt know what to do....either to play it long or try and pass! they didnt know what they where supposed to do! how to break down the Swiss! it wasnt that some players just didnt want it....you trying to tell me players didnt bother to try and win last night and get thru to a World cup where they are on show to the World and end up getting better wages because of it? no chance!!

As we all know footie players aint the brainest! they need direction!! they need to be told where to go and what to do! that what was lacking last nite! no direction! if you watched RTE2 till the end when they played that class tune and they showed a pic of Kerr roaring out at the team and then throwing his hands up in the air! this was a man who couldnt manager or control his players!! he had no direction!! Liam Brady has mentioned this for ages!! was showen last night!!

redspider

Raskolnikov wrote:

4/ Richard Dunne 7 - I think he was our best player of the game, was solid in defence, kept most of the Swiss attacks out. Towards the end he was the only player (along with S. Reid) to try and get forward and go win the game.
5/ Kenny Cunningham 6 - Average at best, gave Frei an open header on goal that could have cost us the game. He doesn't inspire confidence, I don't think it'd be a loss if he retired from international duty after this qualification stage.

Not much point in spending too much time debating this one, but the Frei chance you mention about Cunningham was an error more by Dunne, not by Cunnnigham, and at first glance it looked like Carr not picking up at the back post.

I would agree that Dunne played one of his better games. However, I think he doesnt offer much in the attack stakes say at corners and the like. Niether does Cunningham and both are short on pace. Cunningham has served us well though through the years so he deserves credit for that as he has now retired. He did fine for us last night I thought.

Cunningham's retirement will give us a chance to view O'Brien/Dunne as the partnership, and who knows, maybe O'Shea also going back into his "natural" CB role.

Given was our best player again last night, easily deserving an 8. Dunne and Cunningham were about the same, a 7 or a 6 each. They didnt do much wrong.

redspider

blu_sonic

he's got whats called duel nationality, as do i as does my dad. my dads born in london but lived in ireland most his life, has an irish passport calls himself irish speaks with a dublin accent, but all in all his birth place is london england making him english. you are from where your born, but obviously of your parents decent (look at the states they're all irish lol)

beside this is going way off topic.

ireland played bad for the whole qualifing we are not what we were

LegacyUser

Off-topic slightly, (dont worry - I'm penning my opinion as you read this! ) but does anyone know what the music that RTE played during the end credits and highlight reel last night? One of the lassies here wants to know (typical I know ) I thought it was Massive Attack?

redspider

Btw, the new crop of players may come from this:

Republic of Ireland U21: Henderson (Brighton); Deery (Derry City), Fitzgerald (Bury), McShane (Walsall), Painter (Birmingham City); Flood (Coventry City), Whelan (Sheffield Wednesday), O’Brien (Bolton Wanderers), McGeady (Celtic); Tabb (Brentford), Ward (Bohemians).
Sub: O’Donovan (Cork City) for O’Brien (80 mins)

the team that lost 0-1 to the Swiss. By all accounts, McGeady had a good game and played the full match, so is clearly fit. The question then begs how come he didnt get into the senior squad. He would have been a good person to bring on for creative midfield role in 2nd half as Holland's legs and energy flagged.

The report of that game is here:
http://www.fai.ie/article.asp?hlid=315400&Title=Under+21s+lose+to+Switzerland&lid=Main+News&sub=Under+21s+lose+to+Switzerland&navlid=&sublid=


redspider

eirebhoy

WTF was a German ref doing reffing a Swiss match? If it was a Derryman there'd be uproar.

FrankGrimes

Was so utterly disappointed last night cos the bottom line was the players just weren’t good enough. I thought there was a visible improvement in effort last night but we just didn’t have the ability to carve out chances in the last third, and this was compounded by our only player capable of quality through balls being played out of position.

It’s a harsh reality that we just don’t have the players, particularly leaders as we had in days gone by, right now, but we definitely have not been getting the most out of what we have. We have to look for positives but we need to be realistic when assessing the youngsters coming through – one good game does not a player make but we seem to be too eager to applaud the ‘next big thing’ and this puts too much pressure on them. Our under 21 squad can boast both Flood and McGeady but still can’t get any decent results. Not saying they won’t prosper, but it’ll take time and we will be an average side until that happens (when will Strachan ever get over McGeady opting for Ireland and just play the lad?).

BTW is it too cynical to suggest that Miller’s presence in the squad in place of Quinn has something to do with Fintan Drury being both his and Kerr’s agent?

I had great hopes for Kerr and wanted so badly for him to succeed but he seems to have succumbed to the same conservatism and lack of belief that McCarthy suffered from which manifests itself every time we take an early lead: instead of saying ‘we scored once we can do it again’ it seems the mindest is ‘keep what we have’.

Tactically my main issues with Kerr was he continually played Andy Reid out of position on the right. Duff can, and does, play on the right at Chelsea and he should have been kept there in order to give Andy Reid a chance on the left where he is best. And Kerr seems to have more blind faith in Kilbane than even McCarthy did (42 consecutive caps???). Killer was diabolical, especially in the first half, and Steven Reid shouldve been played on the right with Andy on the left to give the team some balance. And if you’re gonna throw on Big Bird for the last few minutes at least keep another two strikers up there with him – playing 2 strikers in the last minutes when your job is on the line is not ‘going for it’.

There are few positives but for me they are: Dunne was immense; we have one of the top 5 goalkeepers in the world; Elliot is developing into a decent player (though I still don’t think he’ll be the prolific centre forward we have never had); we do have some players with a lot of potential – if they deliver on it we will improve significantly.

So who to replace Kerr? With O’Neill its not a case of should we give him the job but would he take us. O’Leary seems to be the most realistic option. I think we’re gonna have to go some pretty demeaning times with some really low calibre names being seriously considered for the job – we just are not going to attract the top talent right now. Without his Irish interest a manager of O’Neill’s calibre wouldn’t even consider it.

Word on the street from my journo mate is that Delaney would vote for Robson again (though we would be in the insufferable position of being rejected by Robson), and Peter Reid is a serious contender. Shocking stuff! I like the idea of getting a well qualified European in, though maybe as an assistant manager (which, by the way is the position I see Kerr excelling at in the future if his pride allows it).

And so we move into a year without a competitive international…..depressing stuff.

LegacyUser

Looking over the last couple of years, and this campaign especially, I think the people we should be examining are the two ‘Dublin stars’.

IMO Duff and Robbie Keane’s commitment to Ireland is, at best questionable, and at worst, nothing short of disgraceful.

Since he joined Chelsea, Duff seems to increasingly represent everything that is wrong with professional soccer. He seems to be half-interested, prone to diving, petulant, and having little or no respect for the national jersey or the fans that ultimately pay his wages. If you consider that he joined Chelsea from Blackburn for £18 million, and he earned approximately 10% of that fee from the transfer, he had already earned more that the likes of me and you would in our lifetime. His loyalty lies with Mourinho and Chelsea, despite the fact that if he never kicked a ball again, if he was smart he would be financially secure for the rest of his life.

The international game is going downhill because the new breed of millionaire teenage soccer star is completely devoid of passion and loyalty. They lack both respect and a basic education. Without trying to come across as a snob, these players are plucked from usually working class areas at the age of 14 or 15, brought over to the UK where they are put through the paces ultimately to succeed or fail when the time comes to enter the top-flight. I grew up in west Dublin, and I know over ten lads that I was in school with that went to live the dream across the water after the Junior Cert, and in one way you have to admire them as they follow the dream. But the rate of success is extremely small. The usually return home, with no qualifications or ability to do anything else, trying to re-adjust to a world where they are another chap on the street, no longer earning massive wages as a teenager, and living the high-rolling life.

I’m sure it is an often-used comparison, but to compare the commitment shown in the inter-county amateur GAA scene to the pro soccer scene you would see a massive difference. GAA players are almost over-the-top in their will to win, to the point sometimes where the will go beyond the rules to ensure victory, but at least you know they’re not thinking about their club, or their PLC club who pay their wages. It’s ironic that soccer players are easily motivated to go to the press if they’re dropped for a game, but they cannot translate that motivation into effort and graft on the pitch.

Big Nelly

bruachain wrote:

Since he joined Chelsea, Duff seems to increasingly represent everything that is wrong with professional soccer. He seems to be half-interested, prone to diving, petulant, and having little or no respect for the national jersey or the fans that ultimately pay his wages. If you consider that he joined Chelsea from Blackburn for £18 million, and he earned approximately 10% of that fee from the transfer, he had already earned more that the likes of me and you would in our lifetime. His loyalty lies with Mourinho and Chelsea, despite the fact that if he never kicked a ball again, if he was smart he would be financially secure for the rest of his life.

After comments like this and the one before about the English B team I am leaving this thread and never to return!! if it has decended into this it should be locked!!!!!

FrankGrimes

bruachain wrote:

Looking over the last couple of years, and this campaign especially, I think the people we should be examining are the two ‘Dublin stars’.

IMO Duff and Robbie Keane’s commitment to Ireland is, at best questionable, and at worst, nothing short of disgraceful.

Wow - can't let this one go without comment: IMO Duff is 100% committed to Ireland and this is reflected by the fact that he shows up for all the friendlies whenever possible. Did you not see the disappointment on his face when he realised his knee was gone and he couldn't play last night?

Just because he hasn't been jinking around players like he used to, which is due to the close attention he is getting from one or two man markers, people are jumping on his back and failing to see the defensive work he does and the fact that he rarely gives the ball away. He plays the percentages more these days and when he sees a chance to go round a player he takes it, but if its risky he cuts back and lays it off. Clearly Mourinho has drilled this into him and I think it makes him a more consistent player.

As for Robbie, he was poor last night (though he was having his best spell right before being taken off, and Clinton should've gone first as he was knackered) but I saw a noticeable improvement in his effort at least. He tried his heart out but didn't deliver - not good enough I know, but I think last night at least his committment was not in doubt.

eirebhoy

Also, how the hell can people watch RTE? Last night was the first time I watched it in about a year and they (Giles, Dunphy, Brady) haven't a clue.

I thought Robbie was by far our best player in the opening 20 minutes.

RedorDead

Couple of points:

I think the slating of John O Shea here is not on. I thought he did okay in the second half last night and linked play nicely. From what i can remember in the second half he only made one uncompleted pass. Its not his fault Kerr wanted him to play there.

Kilbane should not have started. Andy Reid should have played left, Finnan right and maybe stephen reid and holland in the middle.

If we were going to play long ball all second half, why not bring the doc on at half time and make the most of it? Surely it beats lumping long balls upto Robbie Keane and Morrison. (note i am not endorsing the wimbledon approach here)

That is all.

RedorDead

eirebhoy wrote:

Also, how the hell can people watch RTE? Last night was the first time I watched it in about a year and they (Giles, Dunphy, Brady) haven't a clue.

I thought Robbie was by far our best player in the opening 20 minutes.

Please! :rolleyes:

Robbie has to learn there is a time for the flicks and tricks and a time for the simple things. He also has to develop a hunger to succeed.

I hope he improves as he matures, i think dunphy is right when he says robbie needs a strong manager.

RTE's analysts IMO went even a little easy on Ireland and Kerr last night.

Guy:Incognito

eirebhoy wrote:

Also, how the hell can people watch RTE? Last night was the first time I watched it in about a year and they (Giles, Dunphy, Brady) haven't a clue.

I thought Robbie was by far our best player in the opening 20 minutes.

Just because he might have been our best player doesnt mean he played well at all. They said that morrisson should have been taken off. They were honest about the team which most arnt. (Apart from pat dolan on Setanta, who let rip on the fai, fair play)

Pigman II

blu_sonic wrote:

alot of casses of playing for club not for country, they walked off the pitch last night like it was a friendly

I disagree. None of those fellas looked like it didn't bother them that they were out of the WC. Even Dunne in the motm interview you could tell it was eating at him.

blu_sonic wrote:

but o'shea was smiling while walking off

No he wasn't. I checked the recording just now.

Big Nelly wrote:

not getting aggressive but sick of people going on about the Irish team as the English B team

I agree and I also think its very insulting! After all the England B team could probably beat us atm.

masterK

bruachain wrote:

IMO Duff and Robbie Keane’s commitment to Ireland is, at best questionable, and at worst, nothing short of disgraceful.

That's total rubbish, one thing you can never say about any of the Irish players is that they lack commitment.

FrankGrimes

I agree on the O'Shea point - he wasn't the worst player we had (obviously Kilbane), and he actually seemed to be a bit more assertive than usual. And he actually won a few headers which is often a problem for us in the middle of the park. People seem to hate O'Shea for some reason though and I can't quite understand it. He frustrates the hell outta me but he's not the worst player we have and I don't have a problem with having him in the team - the question is where. Harte has surprised me by actually being average lately - he used to be much worse. But other than Harte and O'Shea we really don't have a viable option at left full.

Disagree on the Finnan point - he is clearly not a midfield player and is clearly not happy playing there, as demonstrated in Cyprus. He should have started at right full though. We need to change our approach of trying to fit players into roles for which they are not intended (e.g. Finnan, Doherty, O'Shea, Andy Reid all played out of position).