Ireland v Switz (scores, everything)

cournioni

bruachain wrote:

Looking over the last couple of years, and this campaign especially, I think the people we should be examining are the two ‘Dublin stars’.

IMO Duff and Robbie Keane’s commitment to Ireland is, at best questionable, and at worst, nothing short of disgraceful.

Since he joined Chelsea, Duff seems to increasingly represent everything that is wrong with professional soccer. He seems to be half-interested, prone to diving, petulant, and having little or no respect for the national jersey or the fans that ultimately pay his wages. If you consider that he joined Chelsea from Blackburn for £18 million, and he earned approximately 10% of that fee from the transfer, he had already earned more that the likes of me and you would in our lifetime. His loyalty lies with Mourinho and Chelsea, despite the fact that if he never kicked a ball again, if he was smart he would be financially secure for the rest of his life.

The international game is going downhill because the new breed of millionaire teenage soccer star is completely devoid of passion and loyalty. They lack both respect and a basic education. Without trying to come across as a snob, these players are plucked from usually working class areas at the age of 14 or 15, brought over to the UK where they are put through the paces ultimately to succeed or fail when the time comes to enter the top-flight. I grew up in west Dublin, and I know over ten lads that I was in school with that went to live the dream across the water after the Junior Cert, and in one way you have to admire them as they follow the dream. But the rate of success is extremely small. The usually return home, with no qualifications or ability to do anything else, trying to re-adjust to a world where they are another chap on the street, no longer earning massive wages as a teenager, and living the high-rolling life.

I’m sure it is an often-used comparison, but to compare the commitment shown in the inter-county amateur GAA scene to the pro soccer scene you would see a massive difference. GAA players are almost over-the-top in their will to win, to the point sometimes where the will go beyond the rules to ensure victory, but at least you know they’re not thinking about their club, or their PLC club who pay their wages. It’s ironic that soccer players are easily motivated to go to the press if they’re dropped for a game, but they cannot translate that motivation into effort and graft on the pitch.

Quality post.

eirebhoy

Stekelly wrote:

Just because he might have been our best player doesnt mean he played well at all. They said that morrisson should have been taken off. They were honest about the team which most arnt. (Apart from pat dolan on Setanta, who let rip on the fai, fair play)

Sorry, my point about Robbie was seperate from my RTE one. I thought Robbie was excellent in the opening 20 minutes. Morrison was playing his normal game but a German ref is not going to give him anything against his neighbours.

zAbbo

Just to get back to the post regarding England B Team, the quote is from Football comedy Mike Basset England Manager, that scene in particular where the teams are in the airport, and the english lads are bantering at the irish lads "oh look its the england B team" and the irish lads shout back something like "feck off O'Shea" or something.

Anyway, that quote is sorta how I feel sometimes watching players like Matt Holland and Clinton Morrison playing for the Irish national team, when we have players like Stephen Elliot on the bench, as well as players like Whelen from Sheff Weds not even in the squad.

Too many Knee jerk reactions here, I do agree that some players will be weeded out, some will retire and the Irish national team will rebuild(again) and come out stronger.

Although the U-21's dont inspire me with great confidence, much of that blame can be laid with Don Givens.

We shall wait and see

Big Nelly

Birmingham captain Kenny Cunningham has announced his retirement from international football following Republic of Ireland's failure to qualify for next summer's World Cup finals in Germany.

The Irish missed out on a place in the play-offs as they were held to a goalless draw by Switzerland at Lansdowne Road.

The result allowed France to win Group Four and qualify for the finals automatically with the Swiss going into a play-off next month.

For long-serving skipper Cunningham, however, it was his final match for Ireland, at the age of 34 and after winning 72 caps.

"It's the end of the road for me without a doubt," he said. "I don't want to dwell on it too much. I feel uncomfortable speaking about my personal position on what is a hugely disappointing night for the entire group.

"I feel for our supporters and everybody who has got behind the team and I am sorry we have come up short."

Jonny Arson

Big Nelly wrote:

Birmingham captain Kenny Cunningham has announced his retirement from international football following Republic of Ireland's failure to qualify for next summer's World Cup finals in Germany.

The Irish missed out on a place in the play-offs as they were held to a goalless draw by Switzerland at Lansdowne Road.

The result allowed France to win Group Four and qualify for the finals automatically with the Swiss going into a play-off next month.

For long-serving skipper Cunningham, however, it was his final match for Ireland, at the age of 34 and after winning 72 caps.

"It's the end of the road for me without a doubt," he said. "I don't want to dwell on it too much. I feel uncomfortable speaking about my personal position on what is a hugely disappointing night for the entire group.

"I feel for our supporters and everybody who has got behind the team and I am sorry we have come up short."

^ Kenny is a true Irish hero and will always be looked highly upon by the Irish fans. He will be missed massively.

It should be soon before Roy announces his permanent retirement from international football aswell.

fade2black

I agree with MasterK on this one...but I will say this...Duff's form in an Irish jersey has nose dived since he joined Chelsea and I must say I was surprised and a pit annoyed to hear a quote attributed to him yesterday about hoping to be back for chelsea on saturday...nothing about the Irish game.

Regarding the match...I'm not going to jump on the anti Kerr bandwagon but it baffled me why he didn't adapt a more positive approach...especially in the last 20 minutes. it wasn't a musn't lose situation...it was a must win one...in other wards 0-0 was the same as a win for switzerland so instead of taking off striker for another striker...leave on 3...simple imo.

whiskeyman

photo caption says it all...

JackKelly

bruachain wrote:

Looking over the last couple of years, and this campaign especially, I think the people we should be examining are the two ‘Dublin stars’.

IMO Duff and Robbie Keane’s commitment to Ireland is, at best questionable, and at worst, nothing short of disgraceful.

Since he joined Chelsea, Duff seems to increasingly represent everything that is wrong with professional soccer. He seems to be half-interested, prone to diving, petulant, and having little or no respect for the national jersey or the fans that ultimately pay his wages. If you consider that he joined Chelsea from Blackburn for £18 million, and he earned approximately 10% of that fee from the transfer, he had already earned more that the likes of me and you would in our lifetime. His loyalty lies with Mourinho and Chelsea, despite the fact that if he never kicked a ball again, if he was smart he would be financially secure for the rest of his life.

The international game is going downhill because the new breed of millionaire teenage soccer star is completely devoid of passion and loyalty. They lack both respect and a basic education. Without trying to come across as a snob, these players are plucked from usually working class areas at the age of 14 or 15, brought over to the UK where they are put through the paces ultimately to succeed or fail when the time comes to enter the top-flight. I grew up in west Dublin, and I know over ten lads that I was in school with that went to live the dream across the water after the Junior Cert, and in one way you have to admire them as they follow the dream. But the rate of success is extremely small. The usually return home, with no qualifications or ability to do anything else, trying to re-adjust to a world where they are another chap on the street, no longer earning massive wages as a teenager, and living the high-rolling life.

I’m sure it is an often-used comparison, but to compare the commitment shown in the inter-county amateur GAA scene to the pro soccer scene you would see a massive difference. GAA players are almost over-the-top in their will to win, to the point sometimes where the will go beyond the rules to ensure victory, but at least you know they’re not thinking about their club, or their PLC club who pay their wages. It’s ironic that soccer players are easily motivated to go to the press if they’re dropped for a game, but they cannot translate that motivation into effort and graft on the pitch.

Spot on.

As has been said, it seems that some of the irish team walked off the pitch last night, as if they had lost a friendly. The will to win and "do it for your fans and country" seems to be gone in the majority of our top players, bar roy. It seems to be the less high profile players that give it their all, which was shown last night, as a red eyed Dunne spoke with the press. Not once throughout the second half did anyone try to up the tempo. Only around the 90th minute did i see Shay Given trying to get the crowd going. Not much use at that stage.

growler

bruachain wrote:

Looking over the last couple of years, and this campaign especially, I think the people we should be examining are the two ‘Dublin stars’.

IMO Duff and Robbie Keane’s commitment to Ireland is, at best questionable, and at worst, nothing short of disgraceful.

Since he joined Chelsea, Duff seems to increasingly represent everything that is wrong with professional soccer. He seems to be half-interested, prone to diving, petulant, and having little or no respect for the national jersey or the fans that ultimately pay his wages. If you consider that he joined Chelsea from Blackburn for £18 million, and he earned approximately 10% of that fee from the transfer, he had already earned more that the likes of me and you would in our lifetime. His loyalty lies with Mourinho and Chelsea, despite the fact that if he never kicked a ball again, if he was smart he would be financially secure for the rest of his life.
.

this is almost comical, Duff has improved massively as a player since joining Chelsea, he is a far more astute player now than he was a few years ago, he doesn't do the spectacular every week he uses his head, he defends and he looks to create space for his team mates knowing that he will be carefully marked and fouled a lot. There may be a case for saying that he hasn't adjusted his game to the Ireland team but thats a problem for the manager to sort out, much of the time the support Duffer expects to be there..isn't. As to his commitment and whether his personal bank balance has effected his attitude to the green jersey, then every european international would take the same approach and all internationals would be a farce, they aren't, they are pro's representing their country on the world stage, the world cup being the pinnacle of footballing acheivement , to say he's commitment is lacking is, unqualifiable and bizarre.

scojones

Sorry if I annoyed anyone last nite, was pretty irrate.

CrowdedHouse

Nice to see that Carlsberg had an ad ready for when we lost/missed out(P17 Indo)

Can't be seen to miss an opportunity to hawk their piss

BaZmO*

fade2black wrote:

I agree with MasterK on this one...but I will say this...Duff's form in an Irish jersey has nose dived since he joined Chelsea and I must say I was surprised and a pit annoyed to hear a quote attributed to him yesterday about hoping to be back for chelsea on saturday...nothing about the Irish game.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Dd you ever stop to think that if someone can be "quoted" as saying something it is quite possible for him not to be "quoted" about something else?

Anyway, I'm absolutely gutted about the result last night. Another holiday fecked up. Had tickets for Euro 2004 and we didn't get there. And I had the free use of an apartment in Germany next year and we make a mess of this qualification again! Gutted!

To me, the biggest problem was (apart from the fact we just don't have the quality) the fact that our midfield just didn't look for the ball, the way RK does, when our defenders had the ball. Holland was fine at putting tackles in but just didn't create anything. And as a result of this, our defenders just hoofed the ball up field route 1 stylee!

B.

blu_sonic

who are we all gonna shout for in germany now?ivory coast for me similiar flag lol

Villain

blu_sonic wrote:

who are we all gonna shout for in germany now?ivory coast for me similiar flag lol

Whoever England are playing!!:D

Ah no seriously I'd like to see Holland do well, they played 12 won 10 and drew 2 in the qualifiers and only conceeded 3 goals!!!

Pigman II

I'd like see an African team win it next year ie France.

blu_sonic

contraversial!!

Big Nelly

Slovakia for qualifiers cause my mate is from there! if they make it them and Holland......the Dutch supported us in Japan so we should return the favour!!

[Jackass]

www.fai.ie wrote:

FAI STATEMENT

FAI Chief Executive Officer John Delaney said it was a real disappointment that Ireland did not qualify for the 2006 World Cup. “Football is the most popular team sport in Ireland and the interest in a World Cup year would have helped grow the game even further”, Delaney said.

Commenting on the World Cup campaign, Delaney said, “everyone associated with the quest for qualification — Brian Kerr, the Technical and support team, the players and squad members and the staff in Merrion Square- have all applied tremendous effort in terms of commitment and dedication to the task”.

“Unfortunately, despite the highest levels of planning and preparation by Brian and all the support team, our collective efforts have not been sufficient to take the squad to Germany next year”, he added.

Mr Delaney said that the World Cup will be a less colourful tournament for the absence of the Irish travelling support, who he said had also contributed massively to the effort during the campaign matches.

Commenting on the financial impact, the Association said it had set out its plan to manage its core finances on the basis of non-qualification regarding qualification as a bonus in the successful years. “Nevertheless, the additional income from a major Championship campaign would have been a very welcome addition to our investment in the game at home”, Delaney said.

The Board of the FAI will now consider the implications of non-qualification and assess all the issues in respect of the senior International team with a view to achieving success in future European Championship and World Cup campaigns and growing the game throughout the country.

Take from that what you will.

The last paragraph is the most significant imo.

blu_sonic

pat dolan needs a job, roddy collins needs to be sacked, a double managment position?

Kingp35

blu_sonic wrote:

pat dolan needs a job, roddy collins needs to be sacked, a double managment position?

Oh god no!!!!

MisterAnarchy

The Soccer is very depressing.
If only we had beaten Israel we would be going to the World Cup.
I know we had gone really bad but we would have had 8 months to sort things out.
The players would get their form back.
The sad thing is that its actually easier to get out of a world cup group than to qualify for the World cup.
That in itself is crazy.
We would have had huge support and the Asian teams and South American dont do as well away from home.
The African teams are very weak.
We could have been in a group with Sweden,Ireland,Iran,Costa Rica.
Its a joke.
If we had qualified I think we would have gone a long way.
I have no doubt it will be a very bad tournament.
Way too many poor teams qualified.

whiskeyman

MisterAnarchy wrote:

If only we had beaten Israel we would be going to the World Cup.

"If only"... such a lovely phrase.
I've lost count of how many times in so many matches during the campaign I've used it...

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Way too many poor teams qualified.

At least we wont increase the number :rolleyes:

Time to accept it.... we didn't do enough over the campaign in this group to deserve it. I dont care how other "poor" teams did.
They obviously did enough in their respective groups. We didnt.
We're questioning why (Kerr and players) and hopefully we get it sorted for Euro 08.

BaZmO*

MisterAnarchy wrote:

The sad thing is that its actually easier to get out of a world cup group than to qualify for the World cup.

I don't get that. What does that mean?

MisterAnarchy wrote:

We could have been in a group with Sweden,Ireland,Iran,Costa Rica.

It would've been nice if we got Ireland in our group. They're crap at the moment so I reckon we'd of had a good chance at beating them!

B.

Pigman II

whiskeyman wrote:

"If only"... such a lovely phrase.

I hear ya!

If only Switzerland had turned their dominance against us into goals last year.

If only Zidane Thuram etc had been playing against us in Paris last year.

If only Cyprus had scored that peno (or any of their 16 shots on our goal) last week

If only Switzerland hadn't played against us almost at half speed last night!

Oh yeah we were really unlucky in this group.

[Jackass]

I love the negativty to defend Kerr.

Well here's some positive if onlys tha arose:

If only Switzerland didn't equalise against France we would have gone through.
If only France played as well against Switzerland as they did against us.
If only Henry had been available for France against the swiss.
If only Israel get a goal in the last second that 9 times out of 10 Given would save.
If only Duff and Keane were available Vs. Switzerland.
If only Keane didn't get injured at home to Israel.
If only John O'Shea scored that sitter in Paris.
If only we learned how to defend a lead, or not to as the case may be.
If only we had a manager who was capable of identifying his best team, and then stick to it.
If only we had a manager capable of divising tactics.
If only Gary Doherty took up GAA instead.
If only our manager came up with a tactic other than long ball.
If only we had the players to play a long ball game
If only my auntie had a bol*** she'd be my uncle.

And I don't rate this argument "But we don't have the players...we're sh*t....how could we adopt anything other than that typical Irish pesamistic attitude, and aim for the bottom rung, and never acknowledge infact beat down anything good we've got.

Shay Given - One of the best goal keepers on the planet...easily top 10.
Steve Finnan - Champions league winner, the highest standard competition in the world, plays week in week out for one of the biggest clubs on the planet and in one of the best leagues in the world.
John O'Shea - Plays reguarly for the biggest club in the world in one of the best leagues in the world.
Richard Dunne - Club captain for a big side, and plays reguarly in one of the best leauges in the world.
Kenny Cunningham - Club captain and plays reguarly in the one of best leagues in the world.
Damien Duff - World class winger worth €27m (?) last time I checked, Champion of the best leauge in the world, will probably be champion of the highest standard competition in the world, and plays reguarly for the best team in the world in ond of the best leauges in the world.
Roy Keane - Club captain for the biggest club on the planet, Regarded as one of the greatest players of a generation in world football. Has won everything, all the biggest and toughest competitions on the planet at club level. One of the most influential players in world football.
Kevin Kilbane, Andy O'Brien, Graham Kavanagh, Stephen Carr, Ian Harte, Stephen Reid, Andy Reid, Stephen Elliot all play regular football in one of the best leagues in the world .
Robbie Keane - has made moves, and clubs have been willing to pay in excess of €50 million in his career so far, has been scoring reguarly at the highest standards since te age of 17.
Aiden McGeady - One the most promising talents in the scottish leauge.
Matt Holland - Club captain and plays in one of the best leauges in the world.

Now we may slate some of these players, but we only do it (for the most part) based on their performances for their country. (when most of us see most of their football unless you reguarly watch most games on Sky sports - If so, fair enough). There is a reason they all play at the highest standard possible..because they are good footballers, they perform at that level, but we have such a terrible set-up, that there has never been a player that performs at the level they do for their club, for the country. They can't when there's terrible management.

Yet they are plaing in a sh*t team, with sh*t tactics, from Charlton to McCarthy to Kerr...we've never had a compitent manager and all result achieved was because of the immense talent on the pitch just about manages to overcome the shockingly baisc and uneffective predictable tactics of the manager.

During the Charlton era, man for man, there was not a better team than us on the planet. QF of world cup with no tactics...pretty impressive. And we only went out due to our achilees heal, the only weakness in our team...Packie Bonner. He parried a ball he should have pushed away from goal,instead of back to the player.. and then ran towards the corner flag leaving an open goal. (in USA '94 he cost us dear too )

(Assuming the Fact that good players play in good leauges)
Look at our competitors...

We were unable to beat Israel who have about 2 players playing in top leagues, with the rest all playing in a very average domestic league. (by european standards). Squanderd 2 very comfortable leads, b self imploding tactics, even when our players were performing. Managed to loose a 2 goal lead in 7 minutes at home to a weaker team. They finished above us.

Switzerland some good players, they have about 2 players playing at top clubs, and the rest are scatterd around, none at anything more than average levels of football. Man for man, club for club, standard of football being played, on paper we are far better, yet they finished above us twice, and we have failed to beat them in 4 attempts. Squanderd a lead. There is no way they are that mutch better than us.

Russia have some decent players, but again compared to our resources we have a lot more on paper, but again on performances, we have failed again, on 2 attempts we havn't beat them, squanderd leads. They finished above us.

Cyprus. Don't even compare to us. Not even the same leauge. Yet they played us off the park, and deserved a comfortable win. This is how far we are under perforoming under this management.

Georgia. Don't even compare to us, yet we scrapped to lucky wins against them in the last campagn.

Albania. Don't even compare to us, yet we were outplayed and unable to create anything against them in 2 matches, and drew away, and it took a 90th minute own goal at home to beat them.

Friendlys. Never experemented, didn't know what options were available to him. Didn't know what his best team was. Didn't know who his best players were. Didn't formulate alternaive tactics. As a result, was forced to experiment with all of the above in his final match.

And don't be fooled by these some of these teams surviving against France, as it's a widely known fact that French football is in crisis, with no manager, it's run by the players, with players coming out of retirement to save them. They beat us.

In both groups, all the results from other matches went our way...which gave us the decpeption that we were being competitve in the groups..No matter how bad our results were, it always came down to all we have to do is beat or direct rivals, but in the 2 groups, we have failed to do that 8 times under Kerr, 10 times over all. (Russia x 2, Switzerland x 4, France x 2, Israel x 2).

Absolute proof that we are massively under performing, It's not that we dont have the players, it's that we have disgracefull management.

We make these teams look good because we play so bad.
Any team with a simular amount of players playing in simular teams in simular leagues playing a simular amount of first team football would dispatch these teams with absolute ease.

So don't give me..."It's that we don't have anyone available"...becuase we do. It's the managers job to pick the right team, play the right tactics, and get the right results. Kerr did none of the above. If you want to see the impact different managers make look at O'Neill Vs. Strachan.

gracehopper

DUBGUY is a legend:
"He parried a ball he should have pushed away from goal,instead of back to the player.. and then ran towards the corner flag leaving an open goal. (in USA '94 he cost us dear too"

LOL

Guy:Incognito

DubGuy wrote:

Well here's some positive if onlys tha arose:

If only Switzerland didn't equalise against France we would have gone through.
.

No we wouldnt, we'd still have finished behind Isreal.

gracehopper

DubGuy wrote:

Shay Given - One of the best goal keepers on the planet...easily top 10.
Steve Finnan - Champions league winner, the highest standard competition in the world, plays week in week out for one of the biggest clubs on the planet and in one of the best leagues in the world.
John O'Shea - Plays reguarly for the biggest club in the world in one of the best leagues in the world.
Richard Dunne - Club captain for a big side, and plays reguarly in one of the best leauges in the world.
Kenny Cunningham - Club captain and plays reguarly in the one of best leagues in the world.
Damien Duff - World class winger worth €27m (?) last time I checked, Champion of the best leauge in the world, will probably be champion of the highest standard competition in the world, and plays reguarly for the best team in the world in ond of the best leauges in the world.
Roy Keane - Club captain for the biggest club on the planet, Regarded as one of the greatest players of a generation in world football. Has won everything, all the biggest and toughest competitions on the planet at club level. One of the most influential players in world football.
Kevin Kilbane, Andy O'Brien, Graham Kavanagh, Stephen Carr, Ian Harte, Stephen Reid, Andy Reid, Stephen Elliot all play regular football in one of the best leagues in the world .
Robbie Keane - has made moves, and clubs have been willing to pay in excess of €50 million in his career so far, has been scoring reguarly at the highest standards since te age of 17.
Aiden McGeady - One the most promising talents in the scottish leauge.
Matt Holland - Club captain and plays in one of the best leauges in the world.

Good post DubGuy, i enjoyed your view on the current situation but i'd like to say that at the end of the day it doesnt matter what they do at club level. Damien Duff is class at club level and crap for ireland in fact he hasnt had a good game for us since japan. The priorities of the current crop of irish players like away from the national team. That was plain to see last night. I questioned the commitment last night, i thought there was nobody playing with a bit of heart (exception: Shay Given) but with that said as the game went on i realised with the 11 players on the park last night it was not a question of commitment. They are just S***E, and thats that

[Jackass]

But that's my whole point...If they can all do it at club level, and play at the highest standard at that level...why can't they do it at international level? play at the highest standard competitions i.e. The WC and EC.

Because we don't have a manager who can translate their abilitys at club level to international level because of a complete lack of basic football knowledge on how to harness their talents like the club managers can do.

Also, don't confuse lack of commitmnet with lack of confidence and lack of awareness of where they're playing and what they should be doing.

Also, players like Robbie Keane wouldn't get so complacent because a manager like Dave O'Leary or Martin O'Neill would have the bottle to drop them, and those managers can also motivate a team, inspire performances, and have a good technical and tactical knowledge at the highest level....light years ahead of Kerr.

Kingp35

DubGuy wrote:

I love the negativty to defend Kerr.

Well here's some positive if onlys tha arose:

If only Switzerland didn't equalise against France we would have gone through.
If only France played as well against Switzerland as they did against us.
If only Henry had been available for France against the swiss.
If only Israel get a goal in the last second that 9 times out of 10 Given would save.
If only Duff and Keane were available Vs. Switzerland.
If only Keane didn't get injured at home to Israel.
If only John O'Shea scored that sitter in Paris.
If only we learned how to defend a lead, or not to as the case may be.
If only we had a manager who was capable of identifying his best team, and then stick to it.
If only we had a manager capable of divising tactics.
If only Gary Doherty took up GAA instead.
If only our manager came up with a tactic other than long ball.
If only we had the players to play a long ball game
If only my auntie had a bol*** she'd be my uncle.

And I don't rate this argument "But we don't have the players...we're sh*t....how could we adopt anything other than that typical Irish pesamistic attitude, and aim for the bottom rung, and never acknowledge infact beat down anything good we've got.

Shay Given - One of the best goal keepers on the planet...easily top 10.
Steve Finnan - Champions league winner, the highest standard competition in the world, plays week in week out for one of the biggest clubs on the planet and in one of the best leagues in the world.
John O'Shea - Plays reguarly for the biggest club in the world in one of the best leagues in the world.
Richard Dunne - Club captain for a big side, and plays reguarly in one of the best leauges in the world.
Kenny Cunningham - Club captain and plays reguarly in the one of best leagues in the world.
Damien Duff - World class winger worth €27m (?) last time I checked, Champion of the best leauge in the world, will probably be champion of the highest standard competition in the world, and plays reguarly for the best team in the world in ond of the best leauges in the world.
Roy Keane - Club captain for the biggest club on the planet, Regarded as one of the greatest players of a generation in world football. Has won everything, all the biggest and toughest competitions on the planet at club level. One of the most influential players in world football.
Kevin Kilbane, Andy O'Brien, Graham Kavanagh, Stephen Carr, Ian Harte, Stephen Reid, Andy Reid, Stephen Elliot all play regular football in one of the best leagues in the world .
Robbie Keane - has made moves, and clubs have been willing to pay in excess of €50 million in his career so far, has been scoring reguarly at the highest standards since te age of 17.
Aiden McGeady - One the most promising talents in the scottish leauge.
Matt Holland - Club captain and plays in one of the best leauges in the world.

Now we may slate some of these players, but we only do it (for the most part) based on their performances for their country. (when most of us see most of their football unless you reguarly watch most games on Sky sports - If so, fair enough). There is a reason they all play at the highest standard possible..because they are good footballers, they perform at that level, but we have such a terrible set-up, that there has never been a player that performs at the level they do for their club, for the country. They can't when there's terrible management.

Yet they are plaing in a sh*t team, with sh*t tactics, from Charlton to McCarthy to Kerr...we've never had a compitent manager and all result achieved was because of the immense talent on the pitch just about manages to overcome the shockingly baisc and uneffective predictable tactics of the manager.

During the Charlton era, man for man, there was not a better team than us on the planet. QF of world cup with no tactics...pretty impressive. And we only went out due to our achilees heal, the only weakness in our team...Packie Bonner. He parried a ball he should have pushed away from goal,instead of back to the player.. and then ran towards the corner flag leaving an open goal. (in USA '94 he cost us dear too )

(Assuming the Fact that good players play in good leauges)
Look at our competitors...

We were unable to beat Israel who have about 2 players playing in top leagues, with the rest all playing in a very average domestic league. (by european standards). Squanderd 2 very comfortable leads, b self imploding tactics, even when our players were performing. Managed to loose a 2 goal lead in 7 minutes at home to a weaker team. They finished above us.

Switzerland some good players, they have about 2 players playing at top clubs, and the rest are scatterd around, none at anything more than average levels of football. Man for man, club for club, standard of football being played, on paper we are far better, yet they finished above us twice, and we have failed to beat them in 4 attempts. Squanderd a lead. There is no way they are that mutch better than us.

Russia have some decent players, but again compared to our resources we have a lot more on paper, but again on performances, we have failed again, on 2 attempts we havn't beat them, squanderd leads. They finished above us.

Cyprus. Don't even compare to us. Not even the same leauge. Yet they played us off the park, and deserved a comfortable win. This is how far we are under perforoming under this management.

Georgia. Don't even compare to us, yet we scrapped to lucky wins against them in the last campagn.

Albania. Don't even compare to us, yet we were outplayed and unable to create anything against them in 2 matches, and drew away, and it took a 90th minute own goal at home to beat them.

Friendlys. Never experemented, didn't know what options were available to him. Didn't know what his best team was. Didn't know who his best players were. Didn't formulate alternaive tactics. As a result, was forced to experiment with all of the above in his final match.

And don't be fooled by these some of these teams surviving against France, as it's a widely known fact that French football is in crisis, with no manager, it's run by the players, with players coming out of retirement to save them. They beat us.

In both groups, all the results from other matches went our way...which gave us the decpeption that we were being competitve in the groups..No matter how bad our results were, it always came down to all we have to do is beat or direct rivals, but in the 2 groups, we have failed to do that 8 times under Kerr, 10 times over all. (Russia x 2, Switzerland x 4, France x 2, Israel x 2).

Absolute proof that we are massively under performing, It's not that we dont have the players, it's that we have disgracefull management.

We make these teams look good because we play so bad.
Any team with a simular amount of players playing in simular teams in simular leagues playing a simular amount of first team football would dispatch these teams with absolute ease.

So don't give me..."It's that we don't have anyone available"...becuase we do. It's the managers job to pick the right team, play the right tactics, and get the right results. Kerr did none of the above. If you want to see the impact different managers make look at O'Neill Vs. Strachan.

Absolutely brilliant post DubGuy and I couldnt agree with you more. You have sumed up everything perfectly in that its our setup thats the main problem be it manager etc. The FAI would do well to take a look at your post

nlgbbbblth

irish1 wrote:

Whoever England are playing!!:D

Why do you support an English club then?

Lemlin

Can't say anything butthat I'm still gutted.

Kerr has to go. Stephen Reid looked by far our most inventive midfielder on Saturday night yet in a game where we need to win, he doesn't start.