Article: Opening Croke Park for Playoff ?

por

From the Indo:

GAA can open Croker for World Cup play off

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*Loophole in rules leaves door ajar
* €1.5m for Gaels, €65m for Exchequer

CROKE PARK could be declared available for a World Cup soccer play-off game next month if the GAA adopted a less stark interpretation of its rules in the national interest.

With Lansdowne Road tied up for rugby internationals next month, the Irish soccer team will have to travel to Britain for a play-off game if they beat Switzerland tomorrow night and reach the play-offs.

It would leave Irish supporters facing an expensive trip, while it would cost the Exchequer millions in lost revenue. The loss of a home venue would also reduce Ireland's prospects of making the World Cup finals.

Meanwhile, the 69,000-seater Croke Park, which has already been promised to the FAI and IRFU for rent at a future date, will lie idle.

It would be a significant loss to the economy if the game went across the Irish Sea. According to IRFU figures, Ireland v England internationals at Lansdowne Road are worth in the region of €65m to the Exchequer.

The official GAA line is that the rules preclude Croke Park from being used for soccer or rugby internationals until redevelopment work begins on Lansdowne Road, but the Irish Independent has discovered a loophole which could open the door far sooner.

The amended Rule 42 (a) states that the GAA's Central Council shall have the power to authorise the renting or leasing of Croke Park for events other than those controlled by the association during a period when Lansdowne Road is closed for the proposed development.

However, nowhere in the Official Guide, which is the bible by which the GAA operates, does it specify precisely what the "proposed development" is, leaving it open to all sorts of interpretations.

For instance, could the installation of bucket seats at Lansdowne, which are necessary for soccer internationals, be classed as a development?

GAA president Seán Kelly said that it was "pretty clear" what delegates meant when they voted to amend Rule 42 at this year's Congress and that short of holding a Special Congress, opening Croke Park for a soccer match next month is not an option.

"Everybody knew when they voted to give the Central Council the power to rent Croke Park that it was for the period while Lansdowne Road was being redeveloped, so we can't change that now, whatever the circumstances. Besides, I'm sure the FAI have already made arrangements," he said.

However, legal sources dispute that view and suggest that the Central Council could use the broadest interpretation of the regulation and declare Croke Park open for business at short notice.

"There's always a way around a rule when it's that ambiguous," said the source. "And in a situation like this where there's no logical reason to delay the start of the deal with the FAI and indeed the IRFU, the GAA could move quickly. The GAA have already declared the war is over in terms of the use of Croke Park, so it's difficult to see what they stand to gain by delaying the implementation of what the vast majority of their members want."

Despite that, Croke Park is unlikely to be open next month, leaving Ireland to export a major sporting occasion while one of the finest stadia in the world lies in splendid isolation in Dublin 3.

If Ireland beat the Swiss, Celtic Park in Glasgow will be the favourite to host the 'home' leg of the play-off tie, with the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff and Manchester City's Eastlands Stadium also in the running.

Croke Park has a larger capacity than any of them and would be a sell-out if available. Under international soccer regulations, the terracing on Hill 16 could not be used, but with 69,000 seats, the turn-out would be more than double the Lansdowne Road attendance.

The GAA is unlikely to explore the possibilities of opening Croke Park, however, opting instead to keep the gates locked to soccer and rugby until the wrecking balls arrive in Lansdowne Road.

That's scheduled to happen sometime in 2007, although it's contingent on the planning process running to schedule.

Apart from any other considerations, the GAA would lose out on a massive pay day by keeping Croke Park locked to the play-off. Gate receipts alone would yield over €4 million, while other ancillary activities would bring the total take to over €5million. The GAA could expect to take at least €1.5 million in rent money and would also earn a huge amount of goodwill for their gesture in keeping such a huge national sporting event at home.

Martin Breheny

I think this is a non starter and just the Indo filling column space.

Th argument is that the installation of bucket seats could be classed as 'development', in that case it would mean that the FAI could in future look for Croke Park for any competitive fixture as they would need bucket seats in Landsdowne, i.e. 'development'.

I also believe that Sean Kelly reckoning that "I'm sure the FAI have already made arrangements," is a bit naieve(sp).

jank

Yea total non runner. The Indo is just trying to get some publicity by dragging up an already over publicised issue here.

There is no way I would agree to a play off game to be played there. It would be great but its not what the rank and file who voted to have a temp lift on rule 42.

The FAI seriously needs to get its head out of its ass!

Serbian

Apart from any other considerations, the GAA would lose out on a massive pay day by keeping Croke Park locked to the play-off. Gate receipts alone would yield over €4 million, while other ancillary activities would bring the total take to over €5million. The GAA could expect to take at least €1.5 million in rent money and would also earn a huge amount of goodwill for their gesture in keeping such a huge national sporting event at home.

I don't think the GAA want, or feel they need to earn "goodwill" from anyone. This sort of thing was being batted about before the French game too, but the GAA are going to stick to the original plan: Open Croke Park only when the re-development has begun.

We have to make the play-offs first anyway.

BaZmO*

jank wrote:

The FAI seriously needs to get its head out of its ass!

Why? Because the Indo decide to go with a BS story to fill it's pages?

B.

Lemlin

The Government really should try and get involved if it is going to cost the economy €65 million in revenue.

After all, it was our taxes that paid for parts of Croke Park. Shouldn't we therefore have a say if its opened?

Pigman II

Just wondering, would there be any chance of reversing the legs so that we could still use Lansdowne? Fixtures have occasionally been moved around in European club competitions to help teams that used the same stadium (eg the two Milans)

Also is any team likely to help us out in this regard as it might be seen as putting them at a disadvantage?

Lemlin

Doubt it. Most teams like to have the second leg at home because they know exactly what they need to do.

That, and the fact that Raymond Domenech was constantly in the press saying Ireland tricked him when contesting the time of the fixtures by claiming they had to have their away games early because Landsdowne was going into redevelopment.

I'm sure any team would be wary of us asking for fixture changes now.

whiskeyman

If we do get to the playoffs (I mean "when"... of course ) expect this story to hit the tabloids and media big style from Friday morning.... we'll leave Thursday mornings press to cry "heroes" after our thrilling victory.
Expect all the usual cry of "C'mon Bertie.. open up Croker" etc...

BaZmO*

Pigman II wrote:

Just wondering, would there be any chance of reversing the legs so that we could still use Lansdowne? Fixtures have occasionally been moved around in European club competitions to help teams that used the same stadium (eg the two Milans)

Have the Home and Away legs already been scheduled?

B.

Kingp35

This wont happen its pretty clear by now. The GAA are the most stubborn group of people your going to meet and they will not open up before the actual redevelopemnt begins. The Indo are trying to sell papaers and thats the only reason they printed this story.

Anyway lads all this is pointless until we win tomorrow

Pigman II

I think how it's going to work is that the 3 seeded teams get their home leg as the 2nd games.

AFAIK the seedings are based on FIFA rankings and given our position we don't have any chance of being seeded no matter who the 6 play off teams are.

Could be wrong on all this so check it out for yourself

por

BaZmO* wrote:

Have the Home and Away legs already been scheduled?

B.

I think it's a case of how they are drawn out of the hat, whoever come out first plays at home first.

As it stands right now these are the options open to the FAI IF WE QULAIFY

If we get drawn at home on the Sat (12th) we cannot play in Lansdowne due to Ire v Aus. Therefore we have to either get the dates switched (don't expect the other country or UEFA will be on for that) or we play in the UK

If we get drawn to play at home on the Wednesday (16th) then it's either a bucket less Lansdown (capacity ~25K) or we play in the UK.

I for one whould love to see it switched to Croke Park but I hold no grudge against the GAA if they do not open it.

Pigman II

Even if they can only get 22k in then why not use it? It'd be better than have to play 2 away games .... not to mention avoiding advertising to the half the entire world that we couldn't even get a moderately sized stadium built after 15 years of talking about it.

cournioni

Lemlin wrote:

The Government really should try and get involved if it is going to cost the economy €65 million in revenue.

After all, it was our taxes that paid for parts of Croke Park. Shouldn't we therefore have a say if its opened?

In fairness Lemlin, our taxes pay for people on the dole too. Should we be allowed into their homes?

gimmick

I'm surprised no-one has brought up the fact that good and all as Croke Park is, it is not up to UEFA standards. There is no segregation, and no floodlights.

Stupid, ill researched article by the Indo.

Kingp35

gimmick wrote:

I'm surprised no-one has brought up the fact that good and all as Croke Park is, it is not up to UEFA standards. There is no segregation, and no floodlights.

Your right but thats quite easy to change. In fact the fittings for flood lights are already there in Croke Park all they have to do is put up the actual lights themselves. Thats not such a big job. I suppose this is irrelevent though as they are not going to open the stadium anyway

whiskeyman

gimmick wrote:

I'm surprised no-one has brought up the fact that good and all as Croke Park is, it is not up to UEFA standards. There is no segregation, and no floodlights.

Stupid, ill researched article by the Indo.

This was brought up before a few weeks ago in a similar thread.
Croker do plan to get floodlights installed for soccer/rugby matches, but its planned for installation next summer - we couldnt play an evening fixture on the Wednesday without it.
I agree though... it wont happen at Croker, no matter what.

gimmick

Kingp35 wrote:

Your right but thats quite easy to change. In fact the fittings for flood lights are already there in Croke Park all they have to do is put up the actual lights themselves. Thats not such a big job. I suppose this is irrelevent though as they are not going to open the stadium anyway

I doubt its as easy as just putting up four pylons and tarping off a section between sections. Getting a UEFA license is a fairly arduous process, with a ridiculous amount of red tape etc.

Now, i know Croke Park is a great stadium, but it has to go through the same processes for UEFA as Turners Cross has to do with every improvement, as Flancare, Tolka etc. It will then need to be inspected by UEFA, and they will then have to make their decision. So even if the situation were to arise and the GAA opened it up, it would be a moot gesture, as UEFA in all likelihood, will not have approved it on time.

Pigman II

I'm sure they could be flexible eg play the game at 2pm rather than 7.45pm. I'd imagine one of the reasons UEFA wanted floodlights was to make it possible to synchronise games around europe but as this will be a cup tie it doesn't really matter that we k.o. at the same time as the other matches.

UEFA have let us use the bucket seats for 12 years now despite various mootings that it was not an acceptable practice so they might be able to overlook these new shortcomings as well.

That said tho, we're not even in the hat yet so lets not tempt fate by dwelling on this too much.

Kingp35

gimmick wrote:

Now, i know Croke Park is a great stadium, but it has to go through the same processes for UEFA as Turners Cross has to do with every improvement, as Flancare, Tolka etc. It will then need to be inspected by UEFA, and they will then have to make their decision. So even if the situation were to arise and the GAA opened it up, it would be a moot gesture, as UEFA in all likelihood, will not have approved it on time.

Yeah I agree your right here I was just saying they probably could get teh stadium ready if needed. I think this thread is kinda dead though because the GAA arent going to open it anyway. Thats obvious for all to see. Also there is the small task of actually winning tomorrow night

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

I think how it's going to work is that the 3 seeded teams get their home leg as the 2nd games.

AFAIK the seedings are based on FIFA rankings and given our position we don't have any chance of being seeded no matter who the 6 play off teams are.

Could be wrong on all this so check it out for yourself

Suprisingly, we would be seeded if Spain win their group or the Czechs fail to get 2nd. What that would take is Spain beating San Marino and Serbia failing to beat Bosnia or the Czech Republic failing to beat Finland. The only group that are guaranteed to be ahead of us in the playoff seedings is Group 2 with Turkey, Denmark and Greece in with a chance of 2nd place. Anyway, lets get there first.

My prediction for the playoffs:

Seeded:
Spain
Denmark
Ireland

unseeded:
Romania
Slovakia
Norway

Please God!

jank

Tax payers money goes into almost everything, doesnt mean that everybody should have automatic access to it.

The GAA have every right to not play the games there but would gain alot of psoitive PR if they did especially with the Dublin rag-mags.

Not going to happen though as Ireland will need a miracle to win tommorrow IMO.

Serbian

eirebhoy wrote:

Seeded:
Spain
Denmark
Ireland

unseeded:
Romania
Slovakia
Norway

The above would be dreamy alright, but I would fancy the Czechs even though they are away to Finland (ended 4:3 to Czech Republic at home) and Spain have to win by 5 goals -vs- San Marino and Serbia have to draw or lose for Spain to clinch their group. Also, I fancy Turkey to finish ahead of Denmark. The real problem however is Ireland have to beat the Swiss. Should we win, the more likely play-offs are as follows:

Seeded
Spain
Turkey
Czech Republic

Unseeded
Ireland
Slovakia
Norway

I wouldn't fancy us against any of those teams to be honest.

por

Serbian wrote:

The above would be dreamy alright, but I would fancy the Czechs even though they are away to Finland (ended 4:3 to Czech Republic at home) and Spain have to win by 5 goals -vs- San Marino and Serbia have to draw or lose for Spain to clinch their group. Also, I fancy Turkey to finish ahead of Denmark. The real problem however is Ireland have to beat the Swiss. Should we win, the more likely play-offs are as follows:

Seeded
Spain
Turkey
Czech Republic

Unseeded
Ireland
Slovakia
Norway

I wouldn't fancy us against any of those teams to be honest.

Is there going to be a seeding or will it be an open draw ?
I am finding it very difficult to get solid info from either the FIFA or UEFA websites.
What has happned in previous draws ?

Serbian

por wrote:

Is there going to be a seeding or will it be an open draw ?
I am finding it very difficult to get solid info from either the FIFA or UEFA websites.
What has happned in previous draws ?

From what I can see, the draw seeds 3 teams who cannot meet each other in the play-offs. They will meet one of the 3 unseeded teams. I'll see if I can find any concrete information on this in the mean time.

Edit:

From Article 7.9 of the FIFA 2006 World Cup Regulations (PDF)

In the knock-out system, both teams shall play one home and one away match each, the sequence of which will be determined by lots drawn by the Organising Committee for the FIFA World Cup. The team having scored most goals in both games will qualify for the next round. If both teams score the same number of goals in both matches, the goals scored away will be counted as double. If the same number of goals is scored away or both matches end without any goals being scored, extra time of twice 15 minutes shall be played after the second match. If of the score is level after extra time, penalty kicks shall be taken to determine the winner

From the FIFA World Cup Armchair Guide

The draw for the three play-off matches involving the remaining six European runners-up (to be played 12 and 16 November) will take place in Zurich on 14 October – two days after the final group stage matches are completed.

In the regulations, anywhere where a draw is seeded, it is phrased like so:

The Organising Committee for the FIFA World Cup shall divide the teams into groups by seeding and drawing lots in public, whilst taking sports, geographic and economic factors into consideration, as far as possible.

In the regulations for the Play-Offs, it just says "drawing lots". I think that means that the draw is not seeded after all.

eirebhoy

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/051007/2/e5jr.html

por

eirebhoy wrote:

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/051007/2/e5jr.html

Thanks eirebhoy

Pigman II

Ok heres a little summary as what we want to happen in the other groups to aide our chances of being seeded play off spot. The more of these outcomes that occur the better our chance of a seeding.

Group 1. We want Romania to come 2nd , Czech 3rd.
Group 7. We would like Spain to win the group and either Serbia or Bosnia can come 2nd.
Group 8. We would like Sweden to win the group and Croatia come 2nd.

Group 2. Makes no difference what happens. All 3 potential 2nd placers are ranked higher than us
Group 3. Makes no difference. Both Russia and Slovakia are below us
Group 5. Makes no difference. Norway already have 2nd place
Group 6. Makes no difference. England and Poland already Qualified.

Group 4. Us to come second (or 1st by some miracle) obviously

(feel free to add to this as I haven't factored in where the 2nd automatic place will go depending on results)

eirebhoy

Sweden should beat Iceland at home which means Sweden/Croatia would get the 2nd automatic place. Can't see Bosnia winning in Serbia though so I'm mainly hoping for Finland to hold the Czech's to at least a draw. If we fail to win this is all pointless though.

MrJoeSoap

Lets leave the permutations until 10.30pm on Wednesday night. Hopefully.

Lemlin

In fairness Lemlin, our taxes pay for people on the dole too. Should we be allowed into their homes?

Yes, but people on the dole don't spit in our faces. That's what the GAA are doing. Expecting people who've helped to pay for Croker cross the Irish Sea to watch their home nation's football team.

I'm as big a fan of GAA as many man but the GAA was meant to encourage "Irishness" and a "sense of pride in Ireland" when it was set up. How is forcing people to travel to England or Scotland part of being proud of Ireland?

I don't think it'd happen in any other country in Europe. Croke Park is one of the top five stadiums in Europe, was paid for by Irish taxes yet Irish people aren't allowed use it!? Doesn't make sense to me.

We live in a democratic country. Shouldn't it go to a vote?

The_B_Man

ye in all reality, its a patch of grass wit a loads seats round it. Dole ppl's houses do be in use, croke park isnt in use. its almost like a grown up version of "No its our treehouse and ur not gettin in!"

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Croke Park is one of the top five stadiums in Europe, was paid for by Irish taxes yet Irish people aren't allowed use it!? Doesn't make sense to me.

Was partly paid for by Irish taxpayers money, and unless the Government attached conditions to the grants OR agreed some form of part-purchase of Croke Park in return for grant aid then the state has nor right of access to Croke Park without the authorisation of the GAA. I think its covered by the protection afforded to private property in Bunreacht na hEireann.

Government funding for sporting organisations returns dividends to our community in other ways. By partly funding the development of Croke Park, the Government enabled the GAA to release funds for local and regional developments, so kids get decent dressing rooms, jerseys, and football nets to play Gaelic games. Our return is the availability of sporting facilities in local communities that might not have any without that funding becoming available.

Has anyone questioned why exactly we face this dilemna anyway? Do the FAI and the IRFU not coordinate their fixtures? Did nobody in FAI HQ twig that they might need Landsdowne for an evening in November, and pass that info on the IRFU?

Any attempt to force the GAA to allow access would only backfire anyway, as rank and file members who were willing to allow compromise before would see that as an attack on the association, and you could kiss goodbye to any further cooperation between the GAA and its two competitors.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, but people on the dole don't spit in our faces. That's what the GAA are doing.

Are they? Has anyone asked them if access would be granted for a possible play off tie in November? Or is this just an attempt to drum up controversy on the part of the Indo? Seems to be the latter to me.

therecklessone

The_B_Man wrote:

its almost like a grown up version of "No its our treehouse and ur not gettin in!"

Also known as the right to private property. The GAA own it, they decide who gets in.

whiskeyman

have to agreed with therecklessone here.
The GAA will come under fire again, but the real targets should be the FAI.
Why the heck havent they got their own ground sorted yet?

Chucky the tree

whiskeyman wrote:

Why the heck havent they got their own ground sorted yet?

Still cant believe people dont know the answer to this.


Maybe its because they have no money to set one up?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

gimmick

^ yes you can. If the FAI had any bit of a backbone , they would have gone ahead with their own stadium. Instead, they have spent the last god knows how many years whinging.

In 1990, we were promised a national stadium by both the FAI and the government - neither have delivered. Both are a shower of wánkers IMO.

The FAIs most famous line is they cant find a decent plit. Well, excuse me if Im wrong, but did they not have Terryland Park in Galway earmarked 10 years ago, but then decided that taking things outside Dublin would be wrong. Be that as it may, but surely a functional stadium in Galway, is better than the nothing available in Dublin?

People moan and bitch about the GAA, that governemnt after government gave them hand out after another. Is this the GAAs fault, and is it the GAAs fault that they invested and managed their grants wisely? is it the fault of the GAA that the FAI is run y a shower of tossers who couldnt arrange a piss up in a fúcking brewery?

At the end of it all, its the choice of the GAA, and I see no reason why they should help out. Maybe, should the situation arise, if Ireland have to play both play-offs away, it will finally act as a wake up call to the FAIlures that they cant expect other organisations to help them at every juncture.

therecklessone

This possible problem is NOT a result of a failure to build a stadium capable of hosting international fixtures (whether by the FAI, the IRFU/FAI, or whoever) its a simple case of a scheduling f*ck up. The FAI should have informed the IRFU that they needed the two dates to be kept free for a possible home leg in the play offs.

As for the failings of the FAI or whoever, there are more culprits than the FAI to blame for the current problems re. housing the national team. The current government's strong arm tactics to attract FAI support for the bloated ego of Bertie Jaysus Ahern were inexcusable, especially considering the no-strings-attached grant aid the GAA received for Croke Park (and fair ply to them for their efforts in securing that funding). The Eircom Park fiasco left the FAI in even more disarray than usual, and echoes through to this day in the clash between John Delaney and Brian Kerr (and for those fo you calling for Kerr's head tomorrow night, remember he had the foresight to see the need for a dedicated stadium for our soccer team when others were happy to play lapdog to Bertie and co)

Nothing excuses the amatuer behaviour of the FAI, but they're not alone in their ham-handed approach to sports administration in this country.

jank

gimmick wrote:

^ yes you can. If the FAI had any bit of a backbone , they would have gone ahead with their own stadium. Instead, they have spent the last god knows how many years whinging.

In 1990, we were promised a national stadium by both the FAI and the government - neither have delivered. Both are a shower of wánkers IMO.

The FAIs most famous line is they cant find a decent plit. Well, excuse me if Im wrong, but did they not have Terryland Park in Galway earmarked 10 years ago, but then decided that taking things outside Dublin would be wrong. Be that as it may, but surely a functional stadium in Galway, is better than the nothing available in Dublin?

People moan and bitch about the GAA, that governemnt after government gave them hand out after another. Is this the GAAs fault, and is it the GAAs fault that they invested and managed their grants wisely? is it the fault of the GAA that the FAI is run y a shower of tossers who couldnt arrange a piss up in a fúcking brewery?

At the end of it all, its the choice of the GAA, and I see no reason why they should help out. Maybe, should the situation arise, if Ireland have to play both play-offs away, it will finally act as a wake up call to the FAIlures that they cant expect other organisations to help them at every juncture.

Exactly right. Blame the FAI not the GAA who remember are an amateur organisation.

Chucky the tree

gimmick wrote:

People moan and bitch about the GAA, that governemnt after government gave them hand out after another. Is this the GAAs fault, and is it the GAAs fault that they invested and managed their grants wisely? is it the fault of the GAA that the FAI is run y a shower of tossers who couldnt arrange a piss up in a fúcking brewery?

At the end of it all, its the choice of the GAA, and I see no reason why they should help out. Maybe, should the situation arise, if Ireland have to play both play-offs away, it will finally act as a wake up call to the FAIlures that they cant expect other organisations to help them at every juncture.

The reason the GAA could pay for croke park is because they have a much bigger yearly income compared to the GAA. YOu cant compare both organisations. They are completely different. The only chance of ireland having there own soccer stadium is if the goverment build it. So its down to the goverment to get their finger out and not the FA.

therecklessone

Chucky the tree wrote:

The reason the GAA could pay for croke park is because they have a much bigger yearly income compared to the GAA. YOu cant compare both organisations. They are completely different. The only chance of ireland having there own soccer stadium is if the goverment build it. So its down to the goverment to get their finger out and not the FA.

Not true.

Did the GAA agree a deal a major telco for naming rights of their new staium like the FAI did?

Do the GAA have access to the TV money and sponsorship deals available to the FAI for our four appearances at major international tournaments in the last 17 years?

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Sponsorship, naming rights, long term ticket sales, corporate hospitality, borrowings, and non-football use of the stadium spring to mind as methods of raising finance. Of course, grant aid from the government would have been incredibly useful.

You do know that the FAI and IRFU have to provide some of the finance for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road (€32 million from the FAI IIRC), don't you?

Lemlin

Was partly paid for by Irish taxpayers money, and unless the Government attached conditions to the grants OR agreed some form of part-purchase of Croke Park in return for grant aid then the state has nor right of access to Croke Park without the authorisation of the GAA. I think its covered by the protection afforded to private property in Bunreacht na hEireann.

Government funding for sporting organisations returns dividends to our community in other ways. By partly funding the development of Croke Park, the Government enabled the GAA to release funds for local and regional developments, so kids get decent dressing rooms, jerseys, and football nets to play Gaelic games. Our return is the availability of sporting facilities in local communities that might not have any without that funding becoming available.

Has anyone questioned why exactly we face this dilemna anyway? Do the FAI and the IRFU not coordinate their fixtures? Did nobody in FAI HQ twig that they might need Landsdowne for an evening in November, and pass that info on the IRFU?

Any attempt to force the GAA to allow access would only backfire anyway, as rank and file members who were willing to allow compromise before would see that as an attack on the association, and you could kiss goodbye to any further cooperation between the GAA and its two competitors.

Yes, I could agree with this if it were not for the fact that the GAA are now in alot of trouble for lining their own coffers. The players are getting more and more disgruntled while the game is losing its way at grass roots level.

The amount of money that has went into Croke Park from the GAA has meant that your local GAA club around the corner isn't getting the funding from its parent body that it should.

Perhaps the GAA should stop worrying about the threat of soccer and rugby and start realising the money they could make from this fixture.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

The players are getting more and more disgruntled while the game is losing its way at grass roots level.

The players are getting uppity because they ain't getting a piece of the pie, not as some protest at the state of the local game.

Lemlin wrote:

The amount of money that has went into Croke Park from the GAA has meant that your local GAA club around the corner isn't getting the funding from its parent body that it should.

Perhaps the GAA should stop worrying about the threat of soccer and rugby and start realising the money they could make from this fixture.

Wasn't it elements of the grassroots that objected to access to Croke Park in the first place?

Lemlin

The players are getting uppity because they ain't getting a piece of the pie, not as some protest at the state of the local game.

Think you read my post wrong. I said "The players are getting more and more disgruntled while the game is losing its way at grass roots level". Note the use of the word while. I was making two points:

1. The players are getting disgruntled
2. The game is losing its way at grass roots level

Not one point as you thought. yes, you are right about the players not getting part of the pie. The biggest controversey being caused at the minute by the player's images being used in the upcoming GAA game. Wouldn't opening Croker though allow there to be a bigger share of pie for everyone?

The GAA haven't had enough money to fund the game at grass roots level for years. Haven't you ever wondered why your local GAA club is always having local bingo nights, funfairs and lottos to fund itself? The GAA aren't giving enough to the people who helped to build their empire.

Wasn't it elements of the grassroots that objected to access to Croke Park in the first place?

You're always going to get an element of die-hard supporters who refuse to budge. That said, it was mostly the Northern counties who rejected to the use of Croker for Irish internationals.

And, in previous attempts, it was not grass roots level who objected but actually the former President of the GAA, Jack Bootham, who openly refused to even discuss the proposal. That is why the issue has been discussed so much more since Sean Kelly took over.

Read GAA newspapers and publications and you'll find that the wide variety of GAA writers, including the most famous one Pat Spillane, are all in favour of opening Croke Park. In this day and age, there's little reason not to.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Not one point as you thought. yes, you are right about the players not getting part of the pie. The biggest controversey being caused at the minute by the player's images being used in the upcoming GAA game. Wouldn't opening Croker though allow there to be a bigger share of pie for everyone?

My bad.

Opening Croker only makes a bigger share of the pie available IF the players get some form of compensation for their efforts on the pitch. The GAA is an amateur organisation, and as yet professionalism has not beeen introduced. In fairness, thats a debate for another board and I'll leave it now.

Lemlin wrote:

The GAA haven't had enough money to fund the game at grass roots level for years. Haven't you ever wondered why your local GAA club is always having local bingo nights, funfairs and lottos to fund itself? The GAA aren't giving enough to the people who helped to build their empire.

No sporting organisation in this country has sufficient funds. You might question the spending priorities of the GAA, but there is an argument to be made for the benefit that Gaelic games played at Croke Park brings to the association.

Ireland participation at the EC and WCs helped build the soccer brand in this country, attracting the young players who are coming of age now.
The spectacle of Gaelic football and hurling on the stage that is Croke Park helps fire the imagination of juvenile players throughout the country.

Anyway, it is NOT the job of government to build and run sporting arenas for organisations with access to readily available funding such as the GAA, IRFU, or the FAI. Grant aid is justifiable, anything else is a waste of taxpayers money.

I agree that Croke Park being used for other sports is a great source of income to the GAA, much needed income I'll concede. But they've already agreed to dig the FAI and IRFU out during the redevelopment phase, why they should have to dig them out of a scheduling f*ck up I can't fathom. We don't own Croke Park, the GAA do. And unless the government attached conditions to grant aid in the past there's not a thing we can do.

whiskeyman

So, anyone fancy a kickabout in Landsdowne Rd on Wednesday evening, Nov 16th?
I pretty sure it's free....

Necronomicon

whiskeyman wrote:

So, anyone fancy a kickabout in Landsdowne Rd on Wednesday evening, Nov 16th?
I pretty sure it's free....

Bad taste