Irish International Retirements

Töpher

Kenny Cunningahm's the first confirmed to go. Keane will undoubtedly follow, and speculation over Matty Holland.

http://www.elevenaside.com/worldcup2006/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=19504

(Maybe this is in the Swiss thread, but it's way too long to scour through for this! Besides, I think this warrants a thread of its own! )

He will be a big big loss for us. Do we even have another player capable of putting on the armband, nevermind leading the team?

Big Nelly

I posted this already! anyway Dunne will replace Kenny and is a class defender! play him alongside the nose and still a good central defence! Keane will be next but Whelan should be able replace him or S Reid.....anyone know how Healy is getting on with recovery? as Dunphy said last nite get Quinn back into the squad....was playing for Ireland when playing for Shef Wed in league one....moved up to Championship and was dropped.....get Miller to leave Utd and go somewhere and once his confidence is back we have another midfielder.....not so bad

Pigman II

It's a pretty young squad tbh (Kavanagh, Holland and Breen are the only other 30+'ers). I can't see any other retirements other than Kenny and The Traitor.

Big Nelly

get rid of Kavanagh PLEASE

The_B_Man

just a thought about cunningham, i read he has 72 caps. apparently now u need 75 caps for a testimonial. personaly, if i was him id stay on the extra 3 matches then retire. at least he can get a bitta cash to sooth the wounds of not goin to germany.

[Jackass]

Nobody obvious springs to mind to wear the captains arm band.

First of all, it has to be a player who is guarenteed a place...and after recent matches, there are only a few players who are guarenteed matches:

Shay Given
Andy O'Brien
Richard Dunne
Damien Duff

Out of that, my choice would be Given. Dunne is Man City club captain, but I wouldn't give it to him because he dosen't lead by example (very accident prone and clumsy) and should another CB emerge, I would drop him before I'd drop O'Brien.

O'Brien would be my second choice.

Villain

O'Brien can't even make the team, we need a leader someone to drive the team on, I'm not normally of a fan goalkeepers been captain but Given could be a good choice leads by example anyway or maybe Dunne.

[Jackass]

With Cunningham gone, O'Brien is our first choice CB. Don't be fooled becase Kerr dosen't play him...it's very obvious Cunningham/O'Brien was our best combination at the back, although Dunne did well against the swiss, and was one of our better players. (which dosen't say a lot.)

Villain

I don't know O'Brein can be shaky enough, he's not having the best of times at portsmouth either. But we are quite week in that area now.

eirebhoy

Big Nelly wrote:

get rid of Kavanagh PLEASE

Watch him at Wigan. Excellent player.

20 Times 20 Times

eirebhoy wrote:

Watch him at Wigan. Excellent player.

Then what good is that to Ireland ? keep him at wigan then

Pepe LeFrits

I was going to post a new thread on the following but this thread should do. With the changing of the guard, who do we have coming through to replace KK etc for EC08, WC10 and beyond?

Some of the immediate replacements are obvious, but I don't think the likes of O'Brien, Miller, and co are ever going to be good enough to build a team around so who in the next generation looks good? I'd like to see Andy Reid playing in an attacking centre midfield role if we can find a good player to anchor midfield.

I've heard good things from a few yids about Spurs right-back Stephen Kelly (22). Finnan and Carr both probably have two more tournaments in them though so it's not an immediate concern.

McGeady and Elliott are pretty well accounted for. How are the likes of Darren Potter, Willo Flood, Glenn Whelan and Kevin Doyle doing for their respective clubs? Anyone know much about Patrick Kohlmann or Jay Tabb (apart from him being nominated along with Fabregas and Anton Ferdinand for the London YPOTY award)?

There's a few Irish players at Arsenal who I've been keeping an eye on. I thought Matthew Connolly was English but it seems he's been playing for the Irish under-age teams, i've got pretty high hopes for him... Ireland could do with a good centreback. Anthony Stokes looks very promising too, but he only turned 17 over the summer so it'll probably be a while before he has any chance of doing anything at senior level. Patrick Cregg (DM) is making steady progress and might make a mid-level premiership team, I think there's another 17/18 year old midfielder called Sean Kelly playing in the Arse youth teams too. Hopefully one or two of them might fare a bit better than Graham Barrett, Stephen Bradley and Stephen O'Donnell...

Kingp35

kaids wrote:

Anthony Stokes looks very promising too, but he only turned 17 over the summer so it'll probably be a while before he has any chance of doing anything at senior level.

I posted about Anthony Stokes before. You probably know more than me Kaids but I heard he scored bags of goals for Arsenals youth and reserve side and he has trained with the first team squad before. he looks an excellent prospect and some of my mates have mentioned him to me as well so people seem to be picking up on his talent over here. I hope he can continue to progress at Arsenal.

There are two young lads playing for the Leeds reserve team at the moment and both are 17 and previously played for Shels. Simon Madden is a full back and he is getting rave reviews at leeds at the moment. he is starting every reserve game and putting in excellent performances. he is a regular in the Ireland U-19 squad as well. Then there is Robert Bayly a central midfield player who is also a regular in the Leeds reserve side and the Irish U-19 squad. Both are rated highly at leeds in a very pomising crop of young players. They are definitely two players to look out for.

[Jackass]

He's rated highly at arsenal anyway, and seems to be an absolute lethal finisher (I know young players are always really hyped), but check out what arsenal think of him here.

Pretty impressive.

eirebhoy

Sarge wrote:

Then what good is that to Ireland ? keep him at wigan then

Come on. You would think the entire population of Ireland only seen Kavanagh for the first time last Saturday.

kaids wrote:

I was going to post a new thread on the following but this thread should do. With the changing of the guard, who do we have coming through to replace KK etc for EC08, WC10 and beyond?

Fortunately there are a few central midfielders popping about:

Owen Garven - Only 17 and started every game for Ipswich this season. Scored recently.
Joey O'Brien - Came on after 10 minutes for Gary Speed in the league and started their most recent UEFA cup match. Recently making the Irish U21 team.
Darren Potter - Yet to start a proper game in the centre for Liverpool but Rafa has too many options in the centre and wants him to play on the right. Signed a contract a few weeks ago so rated by the manager.
Glenn Whelan - Sheffield Wednesday captain at just 22. Not doing too well this season but hopefully its a blip.
Darron Gibson - 17 year old in the Man Utd reserves. Scored for them recently and very highly rated.
Michael Timlin - Highly rated at Fulham. Started their Carling cup game.
Stephen Ireland - Breaking into the City team.

Thats 7 central midfielders (there are others like Cregg and Wilson) too that could make it. Hopefully 3 or 4 live up to their potential. Also a mention should go to Spurs striker Terry Dixon. He has yet to start a game for the Irish U17s but has came off the bench around 7 times, only failing to score against his country of birth England. The English have tried to persuade him to play for them but he's staying with us.

BTW - The U19s are playing their WC qualifying games in Cork over the next week. Italy, N.Ireland and Moldova are in their group and only 1 team qualifies for the finals in Poland next year.

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

Come on. You would think the entire population of Ireland only seen Kavanagh for the first time last Saturday.

I always said he was useless!!! just happened to play more useless than usual last Sat!! look he is over 30 and has never been near an Ireland team!! so why bring him in now? he cant pass...etc.....would rather Miller playing instead of him!!

Seaneh

Theres a handy young Left Full at Leicester called Alan sheehan, has been on the bench for them this season and started a game or two, only 19 and already has 5 or 6 U21 caps, one to watch out for i reckons.

tetsujin1979

Damien Delaney at Hull is another left full worth a look, first team ,was player of the year 2 seasons ago.

Guy:Incognito

I'm good. Pick me coach, pick me, I got hoopdreams.

eirebhoy

Big Nelly wrote:

I always said he was useless!!! just happened to play more useless than usual last Sat!! look he is over 30 and has never been near an Ireland team!! so why bring him in now? he cant pass...etc....

Excellent passer. He missed Wigan's first 2 games of the season yet he is the 4th highest passer at the club and the best success rate (78% - better than Roy ). He has a great range of passing too.

por

Big Nelly wrote:

I always said he was useless!!! just happened to play more useless than usual last Sat!! look he is over 30 and has never been near an Ireland team!! so why bring him in now? he cant pass...etc.....would rather Miller playing instead of him!!

True
Kavanagh coming back was a good story but he has not been out of the squad and playing the the lower divisions for 6 years for nothing.

[Jackass]

Lee Carsley will be the heart of our midfield next campaign imo, probably with Holland, Stephen Reid, Kavanagh and Kilbane vying for position.

I would be tempted to use some friendlys to see how Kilbane would cope at LB...could be suprised, and maybe give us more options around the pitch.

It's hardly a vintage selection..but I would pick from S.Reid & Carsley with Holland as next in line.

eirebhoy

Big Nelly wrote:

get rid of Kavanagh PLEASE

I hope you're watching the match at the moment. Without Kavanagh Wigan would be half the team.

Lemlin

In all fairness, there's not much point in him doing well for Wigan if he can't reproduce that for Ireland.

Look at Given, there's a player who can produce top form for club and country.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

In all fairness, there's not much point in him doing well for Wigan if he can't reproduce that for Ireland.

All it was was one bad match.

Lemlin

Players who are on the fringes of the team should take their chance when they are given it, not fluff it. Stephen Reid showed that, Kavanagh did not.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

Players who are on the fringes of the team should take their chance when they are given it, not fluff it. Stephen Reid showed that, Kavanagh did not.

Still an excellent player.

Jivin Turkey

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=316920&CPID=219&clid=&lid=2&title=Carr+quits+Ireland

Bit of a shock here. Can't say I'm too disappointed though to be honest. He has been woeful for us for years. Long gone are his early days where you would regularly see him bombing up the wing. How he kept Finnan out of the team I'll never know.

Only won 39 caps for us which is also a bit surprising. It will give Kelly a chance which is good though.

Pigman II

Funny as it sounds I'm not that surprised to hear that news.

If you watch our team pre-match line-up to meet McAleese v Switzlerland Carr has a big smile on his face as tho the weight of the world is about to be lifted off him. Considering the guy usually looks pretty sullen at the best of times I found the sight of him smiling like a cheshire cat highly unusual, not to mention disturbing .

Lemlin

Only won 39 caps for us which is also a bit surprising.

He struggled for years with injury.

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Still an excellent player.

Excellent is a word I'd use to describe players like Damien Duff and Shay Given. Not Graham Kavanagh.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

He struggled for years with injury.

He only missed the 01/02 season through injury if my memory serves me correctly.

I just find it surprising that he has achieved so little on the international stage, granted he will be 34 by the next WC but he would be young enough certainly as a RB for the next EC.

That said, I dont think he is a huge loss, if there is one thing the Irish are great at in football terms its churning out quality RB's :rolleyes:

Lemlin

He missed quite a few of his younger years too I think. He had it quite hard to break into the Tottenham team because of it if my memory serves me correctly.

Maybe a Tottenham fan would know better.

Jonny Arson

With Roy and Kenny they paid their dues for many years, earning a huge amount of caps, wore their heart on thier sleeves for Ireland and age wasn't on their side.

Stephen Carr can shove his 39 caps up his hole for all I care. :mad:

Go ahead Stephen abandon ship why don't ya.... don't forget to drown while you're at it! :mad:

[Jackass]

Very suprised...especially the fact he'd let his terrible performance against switzerland be his last...if it was me, i'd want redemption. I'm disappointed he's gone though, he is a good, experienced player.

But at least we still have Finnan (who's better) and Stephen Kelly coming through at RB.

It's not all doom and gloom.

Lemlin

Stephen Carr can shove his 39 caps up his hole for all I care.

Go ahead Stephen abandon ship why don't ya.... don't forget to drown while you're at it!

Bit dramatic there. Maybe he thinks its time to give younger players like Stephen Kelly a chance.

I think he's right to go.

zAbbo

Maybe he misses his holidays on the beach, where it looks like he spends most of his time. Emotionless and not good enough, a Suberb player who could con you into thinking he's good, but in reality is lack lustre.

Pre injury he was one of the best right backs around though, good think we have finnan and stephen kelly to slot in now.

Davey Devil

bazH wrote:

Maybe he misses his holidays on the beach, where it looks like he spends most of his time. Emotionless and not good enough, a Suberb player who could con you into thinking he's good, but in reality is lack lustre.

Pre injury he was one of the best right backs around though, good think we have finnan and stephen kelly to slot in now.

100% spot on. Steven Carr is an example of everything which is wrong with modern day footballers. The guy had loads of ability but got too comfy on his fat wage packet. The injury made him get used to the lazy life and he's not worked hard enough since he came back. I hope one day he'll look back on his carear and realise he pissed it away.

20 Times 20 Times

No major loss , lets be honest we have a few players to walk into that position.
Steve finian , Stephen Kelly to name 2.I think these players retiring is a good thing for ireland we can work with the young players to bring the team forward.

Id now like to see breen , kavanagh also making way for the younger players coming through.

eirebhoy

Big Nelly wrote:

get rid of Kavanagh PLEASE

Another MOTM performance yesterday:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/Observer_Match_Report/0,3740,1598678,00.html

Wigan would be closer to 4th last than 4th if they hadn't got Kav.

Lemlin

Another MOTM performance yesterday:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/Obser...598678,00.html

Wigan would be closer to 4th last than 4th if they hadn't got Kav.

I'll make the same point that I made above: what good is it for Ireland if Kavanagh can play superbly for Wigan but is useless for Ireland?

He deserved not to start after the Cyprus game and he didn't, there was no excuse for his performance, especially if he can play so well for Wigan.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

I'll make the same point that I made above: what good is it for Ireland if Kavanagh can play superbly for Wigan but is useless for Ireland?

I'll make the same point that I made above: No offence but what are you talking about? He played crap against Cyprus but so did Cunningham. It doesn't mean Cunningham is useless for Ireland. It really does seem like the Cyprus away game was the first time the Irish public ever seen Kavanagh play.

Roy Keane wouldn't have gave him the captains arm band if he was useless.

Lemlin

Cunningham has proved himself time and time again for Ireland, Kavanagh has not. He's spent years in the wilderness and he showed why against Cyprus.

Like I said, players on the fringe of the squad should want to grab any chance they get to make an impression. Kavanagh did not do that. Therefore he didn't deserve to start against Switzerland.

He's 31 or 32 now so I'd see him as little loss when we have players like Stephen Ireland and Steven Reid coming through.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

Cunningham has proved himself time and time again for Ireland, Kavanagh has not. He's spent years in the wilderness and he showed why against Cyprus.

Like I said, players on the fringe of the squad should want to grab any chance they get to make an impression. Kavanagh did not do that. Therefore he didn't deserve to start against Switzerland.

He's 31 or 32 now so I'd see him as little loss when we have players like Stephen Ireland and Steven Reid coming through.

I pretty much agree with everything you said there except the final paragraph. Doesn't change the fact that he's driving Wigan up the table and is a good option to have for us.

d22ontour

I always rated Carr ahead of Finnan whom i feel makes too many mistakes though i agree he has been playing a lazy game recently.

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

I pretty much agree with everything you said there except the final paragraph. Doesn't change the fact that he's driving Wigan up the table and is a good option to have for us.

I don't see how you can credit Kavanagh with driving Wigan up the table? He was missing at the start of the table when they were grinding out results and I think its the entire team as a whole that is driving them up the table.

By the time of the next competition, he'll be 33 or 34. It'd be best for his own career and Ireland if he retires and gives the youth coming through a chance.
We've a wealth of options coming through in central midfield like Stephen Ireland, Joey O'Brien and Darren Potter. Not to mention older players like Steven Reid who are still an option.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

I don't see how you can credit Kavanagh with driving Wigan up the table? He was missing at the start of the table when they were grinding out results and I think its the entire team as a whole that is driving them up the table.

He was missing for the first 2 matches and they lost those 2 matches. Since he came back they've won 6, drawn 1 and yet to lose.

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

He was missing for the first 2 matches and they lost those 2 matches. Since he came back they've won 6, drawn 1 and yet to lose.

In all fairness, those two games were against Chelsea and Charlton. Kavanagh wouldn't of made much difference. In fact, they acquitted themselves superbly against Chelsea without him.

To say that Kavanagh was the "driving force" behind the team is an injustice to the other players in the Wigan squad. Every player they have has played his heart out and I think they would of ground out those results, with or without Kavanagh.

The Rooster

eirebhoy wrote:

I'll make the same point that I made above: No offence but what are you talking about? He played crap against Cyprus but so did Cunningham. It doesn't mean Cunningham is useless for Ireland. It really does seem like the Cyprus away game was the first time the Irish public ever seen Kavanagh play.

Roy Keane wouldn't have gave him the captains arm band if he was useless.

Indeed. Kavanagh is a class footballer and always has been. I've tried to follow his career closely since I saw him playing superbly in Under 21 for Ireland against England. Its just unlucky for him and Ireland that he spent most of his career in the 1st division. Of course some people will say he is crap because of one game (when everyone else was crap too) and of course they know everything about soccer.

On the bright side its fantastic that Kavanagh now has the chance to play for a year or two in the Premiership, even if he may now be just beyond his peak. But its great to see he's equipping himself so well. (Although I know you should ignore every other game he's played and just look at the Cyprus game when judging Kavanagh :rolleyes: )

Lemlin

The Rooster wrote:

Indeed. Kavanagh is a class footballer and always has been. I've tried to follow his career closely since I saw him playing superbly in Under 21 for Ireland against England. Its just unlucky for him and Ireland that he spent most of his career in the 1st division. Of course some people will say he is crap because of one game (when everyone else was crap too) and of course they know everything about soccer.

On the bright side its fantastic that Kavanagh now has the chance to play for a year or two in the Premiership, even if he may now be just beyond his peak. But its great to see he's equipping himself so well. (Although I know you should ignore every other game he's played and just look at the Cyprus game when judging Kavanagh :rolleyes: )

Yes, a class player that has spent most of his career in the First Division. I wonder why that is? Its not unlucky for him or Ireland, he didn't make the grade and that's why he spent his career in the First Divison. Fair play to him for doing well now, at leats he'll be going out at the top.

As for Ireland, as I pointed out above, one competitive game is pretty much all we have to go on regarding Kavanagh. Its not right to grade him by that performance alright but if he wasn't willing and/or able to grab the bit by the teeth when he got the chance then I wouldn't consider him worthy of a start against Switzerland. Seemingly Brian Kerr thought the same.

Stephen Ireland played superbly at the weekend, as did Joey O'Brien (albeit out of position). Both are performing in the PL at a young age. Stephen Reid, Damien Duff and Andy Reid will also be around for the next few competitions. We've also got younger players like Quinn from Sheff Wednesday coming through in lower Divisions. Not to mention Aiden McGeady at Celtic.

Therefore I still stick by my argument that Kavanagh should hang up his boots and finish his swansong at Wigan.

The Rooster

He didnt play in the Premiership until this year, Wigan are equiping themselves very well this year but its little to do with him, he played poorly against Cyprus along with everyone else = Kavanagh's no use.

Your knowledge of Kavanagh obviously goes way beyond mine, and eirebhoy's.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, a class player that has spent most of his career in the First Division. I wonder why that is? Its not unlucky for him or Ireland, he didn't make the grade and that's why he spent his career in the First Divison. Fair play to him for doing well now, at leats he'll be going out at the top.

Kavanagh is a very loyal (and probably not a very ambitious) person. Cardiff bought him from Stoke for a record £1m. He loved it at Cardiff, was there captain and would be there today if he wasn't forced out. Cardiff had to get rid of players as they were going bankrupt. Wigan wanted Kavanagh, he didn't want to move but had to. He said he cried all night when he found out he was moving from a relegation canditate to promotion favourites. Before Stoke he was playing regularly in the premiership for Boro at just 19 but Bryan Robson sold him for a few hundred grand when he took over.

As for Ireland, as I pointed out above, one competitive game is pretty much all we have to go on regarding Kavanagh.

He started against Brazil and other than his set pieces played very well. He started the first qualifier against Cyprus and played well again. He came on against Switzerland and showed more determination than any player on the pitch. Started against Croatia, playing the holding role in a 4-3-3 (partnering Kilbane and Miller) and tbh I can't remember him in the game but didn't disappoint. Came on after 27 minutes against Cyprus. Matt Holland played the holding role so for once Kav was allowed more freedom and he ran his socks off.