Irish International Retirements

Lemlin

The Rooster wrote:

He didnt play in the Premiership until this year, Wigan are equiping themselves very well this year but its little to do with him, he played poorly against Cyprus along with everyone else = Kavanagh's no use.

Your knowledge of Kavanagh obviously goes way beyond mine, and eirebhoy's.

First off, he was never playing regularly at Middlesborough, he made 47 appearances and struggled to get into the first team, that's why he was sold.

I never said he was no use as you put it. I said he's too old for Ireland at this stage of his career. And everyone else didn't play poorly. Steven Reid and Stephen Elliott played very well considering. And what do they and Kavanagh have in common? All three were bit-part players in the squad getting their chance. Two took theirs, Kavanagh did not.

By the time of the Euros, Kavanagh will be 33. He'll be 35 by the next World Cup. What's the point in him continuing when we could be giving the youth I've listed a chance. Stephen Ireland and Joey O'Brien are bith in their teens. Andy Reid and Steven Reid are just in their mid twenties.

I never claimed to have a great knowledge of Kavanagh nor did I say he was useless. What I did say is that his time now for Ireland should be over.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

By the time of the Euros, Kavanagh will be 33. He'll be 35 by the next World Cup. What's the point in him continuing when we could be giving the youth I've listed a chance.

Kav is in contention for the holding role for Ireland. Stephen Ireland certainly isn't. O'Brien may be but he's definitely not better than Kav yet. I don't think I've ever seen Reid play that role. Forget age. Kavanagh is better than any young player coming through at this moment in time. Let the clubs give the others the experience to improve as players. He's at a perfect age to play the holding role for the current campaign. Anyway, if we were in a crisis and had to play a young player in the holding role it'd be the Sheffield Wednesday captain I'd call upon.

Big Nelly

Kavanagh is not the future!! he is the past and hopefully whoever takes over the managers job will see this!! when Kerr took over as manager he done nothing with the squad! was still picking the same players as McCarthy! everyone thought he would move to a youthful side since his great knowledge of the youth squads but no!!! this is why he was sacked!! he never backed the younger players!! never changed the squad....

Anyone watch the Shef Wed game last nite? well even thou the result was a pure kick in the balls! there was Glen Whelan again playing a stormer! watched him closely last night and he reminds me of Keane...everytime he got eh ball he made the simply pass but the right one......watched the whole game and one pass he got wrong....the rest of the time every pass was spot on.....also got a good header on the back post that was cleared off the line but ref blew then.....had a few pops as well.......

Wayne Henderson was playing in goal and had a good game and McShane was playing at the back and looked to be useful.....also Quinn was playing again for Shef Utd...why hasnt he been in the squad?????

These are the players the new manager should be looking at....not Old age pensioners as Kavanagh!!!

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

Anyway, if we were in a crisis and had to play a young player in the holding role it'd be the Sheffield Wednesday captain I'd call upon.

Me and you eirebhoy are again the only people I think on here that knows what a good player Whelan is!!!! mind you I would pick Whelan ahead of Kavanagh!!

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

Kav is in contention for the holding role for Ireland. Stephen Ireland certainly isn't. O'Brien may be but he's definitely not better than Kav yet. I don't think I've ever seen Reid play that role. Forget age. Kavanagh is better than any young player coming through at this moment in time. Let the clubs give the others the experience to improve as players. He's at a perfect age to play the holding role for the current campaign. Anyway, if we were in a crisis and had to play a young player in the holding role it'd be the Sheffield Wednesday captain I'd call upon.

Reid has played the role in the past for Blackburn. He has a great tackle and can also get forward when required. I'd have Whelan or Mattie Holland ahead of Kavanagh TBH. Holland is a better player than Kavanagh and he showed that when he came on against Cyprus. That said, both are getting long in the tooth.

The Rooster

Lemlin wrote:

I'd have Whelan or Mattie Holland ahead of Kavanagh TBH. Holland is a better player than Kavanagh and he showed that when he came on against Cyprus. That said, both are getting long in the tooth.

Big difference in attitdue between Holland and Kavanagh when playing
Holland's main focus is on not making a mistake. Gets his tackles in well, then immediately gives it simple. Will never ask for a pass unless he's in a lot of space.
Kavanagh on the other hand tries to make things happen. More risky approach that leads to more mistakes, but also creates chances for his team - something Holland never does. Against Cyprus when Kavanagh hadnt got his passing boots on and we needed to regain control and calm things down, then Holland was ideal.
But against the Swiss when he needed something to happen, Holland was a waste of space and he never even tried to make a positive contribution. O'Shea is more like Holland than Kavanagh, but does occassionally try and make a positive pass, with little success unfortunately. Kavanagh was badly needed in the centre of midfield vs Switz to bring a bit of creativity and imagination to our play - IMO it was a shame for Ireland that Kerr lost faith in him at a crucial time.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

Reid has played the role in the past for Blackburn. He has a great tackle and can also get forward when required. I'd have Whelan or Mattie Holland ahead of Kavanagh TBH. Holland is a better player than Kavanagh and he showed that when he came on against Cyprus. That said, both are getting long in the tooth.

I'm 99.9% Reid never played the holding role for Blackburn. One of Mokoena/Tugay/Ferguson have played the holding role in every game since Hughes took over.

Kavanagh is better than Whelan atm so he's ahead of him in my opinion. Forget about age. 31 is nothing for such a position. Holland only seems to turn up when he comes off the bench. He's not getting his game for Charlton so Kav is ahead of him for me too (and has been for a couple of years tbh, can't stand Holland).

Kingp35

Kavanagh came of the bench last night in Wigans match against Watford and totally changed the game. Wigan were poor in midfield and were drawing 0-0. When they brought on Kavanagh they ended up winning 3-0. Im not saying this was totally up to him but he did change the course of the game.

I agree that Kavanagh is one of our better midfield players and I would certainly rate him higher than Glen Whelan at the moment who has had an indifferent start to this season. Holland sometimes goes lost in matches and you forget he is even on the pitch. Its well known at this stage what people think of Kilbane. I think you you may find that Kavangh will have an important role to play in the Euro qualifiers

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

I'm 99.9% Reid never played the holding role for Blackburn. One of Mokoena/Tugay/Ferguson have played the holding role in every game since Hughes took over.

Kavanagh is better than Whelan atm so he's ahead of him in my opinion. Forget about age. 31 is nothing for such a position. Holland only seems to turn up when he comes off the bench. He's not getting his game for Charlton so Kav is ahead of him for me too (and has been for a couple of years tbh, can't stand Holland).

I'm a Blackburn fan and I assure you he did. Barry Ferguson missed the entire first season he arrived after Christmas, Mokoena only arrived last Christmas and Tugay was suffering from indifferent form so Reid stepped up to the breach. He also played right back on a few occasions. In fact, he's the one player Blackburn have in midfield who can play pretty much in any position.

Originally posted by The Rooster
Holland's main focus is on not making a mistake. Gets his tackles in well, then immediately gives it simple. Will never ask for a pass unless he's in a lot of space.

Kavanagh on the other hand tries to make things happen. More risky approach that leads to more mistakes, but also creates chances for his team - something Holland never does. Against Cyprus when Kavanagh hadnt got his passing boots on and we needed to regain control and calm things down, then Holland was ideal.
But against the Swiss when he needed something to happen, Holland was a waste of space and he never even tried to make a positive contribution. O'Shea is more like Holland than Kavanagh, but does occassionally try and make a positive pass, with little success unfortunately. Kavanagh was badly needed in the centre of midfield vs Switz to bring a bit of creativity and imagination to our play - IMO it was a shame for Ireland that Kerr lost faith in him at a crucial time.

Kavanagh for something creative against Switzerland? Holland should of started in the holding role with Andy Reid or Steven Reid alongside him, now there's creativity IMO. As for Holland just winning the ball and making a simple pass, that's all we wnat him to do as the holding midfielder. He's there to shore up anything around the back four, like Makele does for Chelsea.

And he should that he's alot better at it than Kavanagh against Cyprus. I don't hate Kavanagh by any means. If you look at my posts before the Cyprus game, I was calling for him to start. But, after watching his shocking performance, I didn't want him to start against the Swiss. IMO any player who gets his chance and performs so badly deserves to be dropped.

He is a good player as I've said above but I think we have better youth coming through. Jack Charlton made the mistake of relying on alot of his older players in the Euro '96 campaign, not giving youth a chance, and look how long it took us to qualify for another major tournament.

[Jackass]

My 2 cent .... Kavanagh's a decent player...nothing spectacular...You can't use the cyprus game as a term of reference, it was one of those games nobody performed, that's more down to having no leaders on the park than indivdual performers.

He's no better or worse to a host average midfielders we have...Holland, Kilbane, Carsley ... same ball park anyway...competent, nothing more.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

I'm a Blackburn fan and I assure you he did. Barry Ferguson missed the entire first season he arrived after Christmas, Mokoena only arrived last Christmas and Tugay was suffering from indifferent form so Reid stepped up to the breach. He also played right back on a few occasions. In fact, he's the one player Blackburn have in midfield who can play pretty much in any position.

Reid started 2 games that season after Christmas. Tugay played in both games and Reid was taken off at half time in each. Reid never played the holding role for Blackburn, I'm nearly certain of it.

Lemlin

DubGuy wrote:

My 2 cent .... Kavanagh's a decent player...nothing spectacular...You can't use the cyprus game as a term of reference, it was one of those games nobody performed, that's more down to having no leaders on the park than indivdual performers.

He's no better or worse to a host average midfielders we have...Holland, Kilbane, Carsley ... same ball park anyway...competent, nothing more.

Exactly. So why not give one of the younger players like Joey O'Brien or Stephen Ireland a chance ahead of him? Not to mention Andy Reid or Steven Reid. They have more potential than he ever had.

Reid started 2 games that season after Christmas. Tugay played in both games and Reid was taken off at half time in each. Reid never played the holding role for Blackburn, I'm nearly certain of it.

I assure you he has. I'm a Rovers supporter and I've followed every game since I started supporting them in 1993. You don't have to take my word for it though .

He has also played it in games he came on in (he doesn't have to start games to play a position, you know!). That season, he came on in a game against Chelsea early and actually got MOM in that role. Blackburn drew the game 0-0. That's just one of the games that springs to mind.