ucdsu.net asking me for a password! WTF?

AngelofFire

It should not be the job of the Student Union to try and save the world. They are there for the students as a whole. When they start taking on board political issues which split opinion straight down the middle, they stray from their primary objective - catering for the students as a whole.

To be quite frank if the democratic mandate to take a stance on such issues is there than the union has every right to do so. If they union are there for the students as a whole then it is only right that they take a stance on issues that students support. I dont believe the argument that if the union takes a stance on issues like war or deportation it deviates from its role in representing students on education matters. From my experience UCDSU is by far the best at standing up for students on bread and butter issues like grants, fees and cutbacks. Whilst at the same time other unions who abstain from taking stances on national issues do very little to stand up for students on education and welfare issues.

Mr.Nice Guy

AngelofFire wrote:

To be quite frank if the democratic mandate to take a stance on such issues is there than the union has every right to do so.

But as I pointed out before, there was no overtly political stance taken at the time of the Student elections so the 'mandate' argument is spurious. I don't recall it being a feature of James Carroll's campaign. Furthermore, money from paying our fees automatically goes to the Union so how are they representative of people with political views like mine when they are adopting politcal principles which people like myself object to?

AngelofFire wrote:

If they union are there for the students as a whole then it is only right that they take a stance on issues that students support.

Eh? Students as a whole do not support their political beliefs. That is the whole point! They are taking a stance on issues that only some students support.

AngelofFire wrote:

I dont believe the argument that if the union takes a stance on issues like war or deportation it deviates from its role in representing students on education matters.

Interesting seeing as your first contribution on this thread was to say:

AngelofFire wrote:

Oh no not another ''the union does not do anything relevant to UCD'' thread

I'm interested to know whether or not you accept the point that I and Slash/Ed have been making on this thread that by the Union taking a stance on issues like war and deportation, they create a split amongst students as a whole...

AngelofFire wrote:

From my experience UCDSU is by far the best at standing up for students on bread and butter issues like grants, fees and cutbacks. Whilst at the same time other unions who abstain from taking stances on national issues do very little to stand up for students on education and welfare issues.

What does that mean? Are you actually implying that by the Union taking stances on national issues, this improves their chances of standing up for students on education and welfare issues? I don't see the logic in that at all.

pretty*monster

Mr. Nice Guy, you seem to be suggesting, by your constant refrence top the student body 'as a whole', that the union should not take any action that any individual student does not suppost. I'm sure you've heard that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

I'm sure many of us would be utterly disgusted to see such a potentially powerful force as the union take no action of political issues.

If you don't like it, vote for someone else, complain to your class rep, etc, etc.

Mr.Nice Guy

pretty*monster wrote:

Mr. Nice Guy, you seem to be suggesting, by your constant refrence top the student body 'as a whole', that the union should not take any action that any individual student does not suppost. I'm sure you've heard that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

What I and Slash/Ed and others have been suggesting (and it's a pretty basic concept to grasp) is that the Union should stay neutral on political matters which are likely to prove divisive to students. Yes I have heard the saying you can't please all of the people all of the time but considering that ALL students have contributed towards the Union, I think they ought to do their best to please students as a whole.

pretty*monster wrote:

I'm sure many of us would be utterly disgusted to see such a potentially powerful force as the union take no action of political issues.

You would be 'disgusted' at the Union taking a neutral stance on poltiical issues? Why? They're primarily there for the students. As for their power, a few students telling McDowell he's not welcome is not power.

pretty*monster wrote:

If you don't like it, vote for someone else, complain to your class rep, etc, etc.

If I don't like it I'll air my views just like I am doing now.

Sangre

Students vote on a bunch of people who they think are the best for their respective titles. The majority of the elected turnout to be of a certain political persuasion e.g. lefty. They all notice that they're lefties...wow...the student body must WANT a lefty movement! Let us fight for the lefty cause because we represent the STUDENT BODY and they VOTED for us!!


Yeah, I voted for you to stop fees increasing not to fúcking further your political career or spew your liberal bull**** to the student body masses.
Now do your fúcking job and leave everything else alone because it has nothing to do with UCD or us AT ALL!!

God I hate them so much....

AGHAGHAHGAHG!!!!!!


(lefty/liberal was an EXAMPLE)

Slash/ED

pretty*monster wrote:

Mr. Nice Guy, you seem to be suggesting, by your constant refrence top the student body 'as a whole', that the union should not take any action that any individual student does not suppost. I'm sure you've heard that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Then stop trying on issues that have nothing to do with the students. It's not your feckin' job to try and further your political careers and look good by trying to save the world, it's your job completley and soley to look after the students and their interests as students and nothing more.

Pythia

The Commie SU types are never gonna concede a thing. So there's no point arguing really...

Jonny Arson

In agreement with Mr. Nice Guy, Slash/ED and Sangre, I also strongly disagree with the political aspect of the UCD Students Union.

Yes there will always be a political aspect to any Students Union in terms of campaigning to the the Government about fees, funding etc. but I do feel that this is exploited by many union members in order to fuel their personal political agendas.

Politics in the Student Union should only relate to student or educational issues not issues like the Rossport Five which completely has no relevance to the education system of our college.

Yes the Student Union has every right to put up what they like on their site but this should only happen when it has relevance to us the eveyday average student. I'm all for free speech but only when it's relevant and topics like the Rossport Five have no place in the Union end of.

We all know the union has a ''hack culture image'' which IMO is exaggerated to a degree but non-UCD politcal agendas will only make this image worse.
The Union I feel is distancing itself from the normal student due to their politcal agendas and political division.

The Union should be about us the students and nothing else.

Mr.Nice Guy

Well said ^. Actually if someone ran for election and promised to stay neutral on political matters, they'd get my vote and I imagine the vote of quite alot of people.

panda100

AngelofFire wrote:

From my experience UCDSU is by far the best at standing up for students on bread and butter issues like grants, fees and cutbacks. Whilst at the same time other unions who abstain from taking stances on national issues do very little to stand up for students on education and welfare issues.

Have to agree with you here.Before paul dillion and the leftys took over the union did little to really help the plight of students.I do think dan and Jane were fully in their rights to attend that protest as the deportations instructed by minister mc dowell did affect a small minority of students in UCD.I think them protesting shows they have compassion for students no matter how small the minority.

Jonny Arson

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well said ^. Actually if someone ran for election and promised to stay neutral on political matters, they'd get my vote and I imagine the vote of quite alot of people.

Exactly. There shouldn't be any obvious ''I'm a lefty'' and ''I'm a righty'' portrayed amongst anyone involved the Union. This isn't the Dail. I would have loved to have been involved in the Students Union in some capacity over the last year and a quarter in order to improve our education and to make a our college a better place but I came to the decision that I wouldn't as I'm not an overly political person and any political views or opinions I do have swing between left and right. The Union sends a signal to students that to get involved you need to have a political affiliation and msut be strongly politically minded and I'm not one of those people since I have no political affiliation and my political views are a result of my individual opinions and are not dictated by an affiliation.

Syth

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well said ^. Actually if someone ran for election and promised to stay neutral on political matters, they'd get my vote and I imagine the vote of quite alot of people.

It would be funny to see a candidate satirise all the political rubbish that goes one.

rainbow kirby

I want to run a banana for SU president

panda100

Well stranger things have happened-gaymus O'Monaigh as welfare officer anyone?

irlrobins

A banana would prob get more people to vote at least...

pretty*monster

Were you lads asleep last march? Paddy Carroll ran for president on a pretty much non-political platform.

panda100

Yeah but theres a difference betwwen running with no political agenda and having absolutley no agenda at all!He hadnt any experience with any societys,being class rep or with the union.The only experience he thought he had was being a rugby referee?!People would vote for someone who is apoltical but they have to have some experience or at least knowledge of what being student union president entails.