Religious descrimination and the English Monarchy

catholicireland

Anyone wonder why the english monarchy only allows prodestant people to become king or queen? Isnt this discrimination?
Its the same as saying - if your not white you cant be prime minister.
I think its sick in this day and age.

Mucco

I blame Henry VIII

monkeyfudge

Yes... and why can't muslims be pope?

Sand

Much like the Pope has to be Catholic, CatholicIreland.....I cant imagine youll be out there demanding that Paisley gets his shot at the Popehood next time around.

The obvious reason is that the Monarchy in England is also the head of the Church in England. Its about as much discrimination as saying only a Windsor can be Monarch, and its about as commonly accepted as the reuirements to be Pope. Get over it.

mike65

The succesion law came into being with the murderous ping-pong in the 14-16th centuries as Protestant and Catholic Kings and Queens came and went in quick order.

this from wiki

In 1371, David II was succeeded by Robert II, the first Scottish monarch from the House of Stewart (later Stuart). The reigns of both Robert II and his successor, Robert III, were marked by a general decline in royal power. When Robert III died in 1406, regents had to rule the country; the monarch, Robert III's son James I, had been taken captive by the English. Having paid a large ransom, James returned to Scotland in 1424; in order to restore his authority, he used ruthless measures, including the execution of several of his enemies. James II continued his father's policies by subduing influential noblemen. At the same time, however, the Estates of Scotland (the Scottish Parliament) became increasingly powerful, often openly defying the King. Parliamentary power reached its zenith during the reign of the ineffective King James III. As a result, James IV and his successors tended to avoid calling parliamentary sessions, thereby checking the power of the Estates.

In 1513, James IV launched an invasion of England, attempting to take advantage of the absence of the English King Henry VIII. His forces met with disaster at Flodden Field; the King, many senior noblemen, and over ten thousand soldiers were killed. As James IV's son and successor, James V, was an infant, the government was taken over by regents. After he reached adulthood, James ruled successfully until another disastrous war with the English in 1542. James's death in the same year left the Crown in the hands of his six-day-old daughter, Mary; once again, a regency was established. Mary, a Roman Catholic, reigned during a period of great religious upheaval in Scotland. Due to the efforts of reformers such as John Knox, a Protestant ascendancy was established. Mary caused considerable alarm by marrying a fellow Catholic, Lord Darnley, in 1565. After Lord Darnley's assassination in 1566, Mary contracted an even more unpopular marriage with the Earl of Bothwell, who was widely suspected of Darnley's murder. The nobility rebelled against the Queen, forcing her to abdicate and to flee to England (where she was imprisoned and later executed by Elizabeth I). The Crown went to her infant son James VI, who was brought up as a Protestant. James VI would later become King of England upon the death of Queen Elizabeth I.
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Since the Union of the Crowns

James VI and I was the first monarch to rule over England, Scotland, and Ireland together.

Elizabeth's death in 1603 brought about the end to the rule of the House of Tudor; she was succeeded by the Scottish monarch James VI, who ruled in England as James I. Although England and Scotland were in personal union under one monarch, they remained separate kingdoms. James belonged to the House of Stuart, a royal house whose monarchs experienced frequent conflicts with the English Parliament. The disputes frequently related to the issue of royal and parliamentary powers, especially the power to impose taxes. The conflict was especially pronounced during the reign of James I's successor Charles I, who provoked opposition by ruling without Parliament from 1629 to 1640 (the "Eleven Years Tyranny"), unilaterally levying taxes, and adopting controversial religious policies (many of which were offensive to the Scottish Presbyterians and the English Puritans). In about 1642, the conflict between King and Parliament reached its climax as the English Civil War began. The war culminated in the execution of the king, the overthrow of the monarchy, and the establishment of a republic known as the Commonwealth of England. In 1653, however, Oliver Cromwell, the most prominent military and political leader in the nation, seized power and declared himself Lord Protector (effectively becoming a military dictator). Oliver Cromwell continued to rule until his death in 1658, when he was succeeded by his son Richard Cromwell. The new Lord Protector had little interest in governing; he soon abdicated, allowing the brief re-establishment of the Commonwealth. The lack of clear leadership, however, led to civil and military unrest, and for a popular desire to restore the monarchy. The Restoration came about in 1660, when Charles I's son Charles II was declared king. The establishment of the Commonwealth and Protectorate was deemed illegal; Charles II was declared to have been the de jure king since his father's death in 1649.

Charles II's reign was marked by the development of the first modern political parties in England. Charles had no legitimate children, and was due to be succeeded by his Roman Catholic brother, James, Duke of York. There arose a parliamentary effort to exclude James from the line of succession; the "Abhorrers," who opposed it, became the Tory Party, whereas the "Petitioners," who supported it, became the Whig Party. The Exclusion Bill, however, failed; on several occasions, Charles II dissolved Parliament because he feared that the bill might pass. After the dissolution of the Parliament of 1681, Charles ruled as an absolute monarch until his death in 1685. The Catholic James II accordingly succeeded Charles (who himself converted to Catholicism on his deathbed). James pursued policy of offering religious tolerance to Roman Catholics, thereby drawing the ire of many of his Protestant subjects. Many opposed James's decisions maintain a large standing army, to appoint Roman Catholics to high political and military offices, and to imprison Church of England clerics who challenged his policies (see Seven Bishops). As a result, a group of Protestant nobles and other notable citizens known as the Immortal Seven invited James II's daughter Mary II and her husband William of Orange to depose the king. William obliged, arriving in England on 5 November 1688 to great public support. Faced with the defection of many of his Protestant officials, James fled the realm on 23 December of the same year. On 12 February 1689, the Convention Parliament declared that James's flight constituted an abdication, and that William III and Mary II (not James II's Catholic son James Francis Edward Stuart) were joint Sovereigns of England and Ireland. The Scottish Estates soon followed suit.

James's overthrow is normally known as the Glorious Revolution, and was one of the most important events in the long evolution of parliamentary power. The Bill of Rights 1689 declared that the English people held certain rights, including the freedom from taxes imposed without parliamentary consent. The Bill of Rights also required future monarchs to be Protestants, and provided that, after any children of William and Mary, Mary's sister Anne would inherit the Crown. Mary died childless in 1694, leaving William as the sole monarch. By 1700, a political crisis arose, as all of the Princess Anne's children had died, leaving Anne as the only individual left in the line of succession. Parliament, afraid that the former James II or his Roman Catholic relatives might attempt to reclaim the Throne, passed the Act of Settlement 1701, which placed William's distant Protestant cousin Sophia, Electress of Hanover, in the line of succession. Soon after the passage of the Act, William II died, leaving the Crown to his sister-in-law Anne.

Phew! Of course the law has no place in modern Britain there is no reason why the monarch needs be the head of the Church of England and no reason for the Church of England to be the "established" church.

I don't see why the Prime Minister could'nt suggest making the changes.

Mike.

Macmorris

Sand wrote:

The obvious reason is that the Monarchy in England is also the head of the Church in England.

The law would make sense then if all non-COE people were barred from becoming the monarch but that's not the case. It's only catholics who are not allowed to become head of state in Britain. As far as I know, there's no law against a Hindu or a Muslim becoming King or Queen.

daveirl

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BuffyBot

Anyone wonder why the english monarchy only allows prodestant people to become king or queen? Isnt this discrimination?

You know....I really don't

murphaph

Pope Benedict for Queen!

I couldnt care less about the fact that a catholic cant be monarch.

The real discrimination is that the primeminister of the UK cannot be a catholic.

Explain that one away?

daveirl

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Manach

His wife Cherie is Catholic and Mr. Blair is religious, but not on the same level on President "God tells me what to" Bush.

daveirl

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Hmmm

This topic prompted me to do some research (never a bad thing)

Apparently there is no legal or constitutional bar to the UK having a catholic PM.

There is a lot of speculation that in private Tony Blair is a catholic.

http://www.excite.co.uk/search/web/detail?_f=%2Fsearch%2Fweb%2Fresults%3Fq%3Dcan%2Bthe%2BUK%2Bprime%2Bminister%2Bbe%2Ba%2Bcatholic%253f%26utm_source%3DASKUK%26utm_campaign%3DASKXUK1&_t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesonline.co.uk%2Farticle%2F0%2C%2C2-1310733%2C00.html&_q=can+the+UK+prime+minister+be+a+catholic%3F

and http://www.excite.co.uk/search/web/detail?_f=%2Fsearch%2Fweb%2Fresults%3Fq%3Dcan%2Bthe%2BUK%2Bprime%2Bminister%2Bbe%2Ba%2Bcatholic%253f%26utm_source%3DASKUK%26utm_campaign%3DASKXUK1&_t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fuk_news%2Fstory%2F0%2C%2C1328159%2C00.html&_q=can+the+UK+prime+minister+be+a+catholic%3F

The issue seems to be that the British public arent ready for it.
I'd reckon its more a case that certain quarters arent ready for it.Theres hardly a spark of Religion left in the British public,they're worse than Ireland for church going and thats saying something so I doubt they are too pushed one way or another.

A Dub in Glasgo

The sooner those parasites are dealt with, the better. Does it really matter that the parasite cannot be anything other than protestant, I would have the function disappear pronto no matter what religion it was.

daveirl

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black_jack

catholicireland wrote:

Anyone wonder why the english monarchy only allows prodestant people to become king or queen? Isnt this discrimination?

Tell you what when you apply for the job of king, tick the "I'd rather not say" box in the religion section.

Whats that? You can't apply for the job of monarch? You have to be born into it! Christ thats clear nepotism and cronyism of the worst kind! Call the EU I'm off to the court of human rights!

Its the same as saying - if your not white you cant be prime minister.
I think its sick in this day and age.

No it's not. Thats an entirely different issue to the blithering non issue you're raising here.

Hydroquinone

Who says you have to be white to be Prme Minister? I remember when people used to say there'd never be a woman PM, yet there she was, Mrs Thatcher.
They used to say a bachelor could never be prime minister, Ted Heath was both. I don't know if there'll ever be a PM over there who isn't white, but I would never say there couldn't be. Times change. When do you think we'll get a Taoiseach that's a woman, or that isn't white, or that isn't a catholic?
Do you think that's sick too?

The religion of the monarchy in a foreign country makes no odds to me. Why should it? We live in a republic, where there's no monarchy at all, so why should anyone here care? We got rid of them a long time ago, it's not our business.
I don't believe in the Virgin birth or transubstatiation, doesn't make me a bad person. The British monarchy could believe in space faries and that the moon was made of green cheese for all I care.

Hagar

Is the Pope a Catholic? Does a bear shít in the woods?

Tune in next week for more exciting questions and answers.

DublinWriter

daveirl wrote:

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Cherie and the kids are Catholic, Blair himself is Church of England.

DublinWriter

catholicireland wrote:

Anyone wonder why the english monarchy only allows prodestant people to become king or queen?

Because the reigning monarch of the UK is automatically the head of the Church of England.

You might as well ask why the position of Pope is only open to Catholics.

catholicireland wrote:

Isnt this discrimination?

Were you thinking of applying for the job yerself?

catholicireland

catholicireland wrote:

Anyone wonder why the english monarchy only allows prodestant people to become king or queen? Isnt this discrimination?

It's very discriminatory against Protestants surely. To become leader of their Church they have to become King or Queen first...

daveirl

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daveirl

daveirl wrote:

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Ah, the 'about to be' Catholic, which is the opposite of that more popular species, the 'lapsed' Catholic...