Is there something wrong with me

woody

Okay, for the last few weeks I have been generally getting more angry with the flouting of the law by NORTHERN IRISH drivers.

Okay correct me if I am wrong but we have speed laws down here in the south and the speed on the M1 is not 120 MPH it is 120 KMPH.

I have noticed how these people and off the cars I see about 99% of them regularly drive dangerously, speed and are completely ignorant not just in driving but in this case of driving they are.Maybe they are people with a serious case of I am from the North and the law does not apply to me.

I live in Dundalk and I regularly see these idiots of all ages flouting the law, so they can't get penalty points maybe HUGE fines of thousands may sway them to stop.

I had to pull into the overtaking lane last week as there was a slow moving truck in front of me and within seconds I had two hounds from the North flashing there lights and tail gating me, now on my left was the truck which I was overtaking at 120 KMPH and did all this with much safety and followed the rules of the road.

Now this happens almost everyday to me and others, if there are any Northern Drivers here I would like to ask them why they are so aggresive and why they wont cop the f*ck on before the kill someone unless they already have.

mackerski

woody wrote:

I have noticed how these people and off the cars I see about 99% of them regularly drive dangerously, speed and are completely ignorant not just in driving but in this case of driving they are.

I can't quite grasp what you mean by the last part of your point, but any time I've encountered NI-registered cars on the Drogheda-Dundalk section of the M1 I'd have to agree that they are very commonly driving in excess of the speed limit, but on no occasion have I seen one driven dangerously.

woody wrote:

I had to pull into the overtaking lane last week as there was a slow moving truck in front of me and within seconds I had two hounds from the North flashing there lights and tail gating me, now on my left was the truck which I was overtaking at 120 KMPH and did all this with much safety and followed the rules of the road.

Within seconds, you say? They would have to have been doing very considerably in excess of the limit to have caught up with you that quickly - either that, or they were already quite close to you when you began your manouevre. If the latter, how come you didn't see them in your mirror and delay your lane change as the rules require?

Apologies if I've reached an unreasonable conclusion here, perhaps there's just some information missing in your post that would help it make sense.

Dermot

ds20prefecture

While were on sweeping generalisations - has anyone noticed how many white male IRISH drivers break the speed limits on the motorways? And they're rude and hog the overtaking lane or flash their lights when I'm doing a perfectly reasonable 50mph in the outside lane of the M50???

Feckers. Why don't the come back where they came from???

:rolleyes:

69 mustang

Yea and those WHITE cars with the yellow stripes and the blue lights do that to me a lot and some times insist on a road side conversation. :rolleyes:

Silvera

The govt should introduce 'on the spot' speeding fines (i.e. you pay there- and-then ......as is the case in France, Gemany, etc).
(In France the police will even escort you to the nearest ATM machine if you don't have any cash with you ! )

IMO, this would make a lot of N.I, foreign, and Irish drivers cop on to their constant bad driving !

Victor

Why was the truck doing 120 km/h?

drdre

the m1 is always empty and u cannot just do 120. i was on it on saturday and it was empty and was doing nearly 190 kph all the way from cherrywood exit.i got to toll bridge on m1 in 20 mins from my house.now thats fast.:D

the_syco

woody wrote:

there was a slow moving truck in front of me ... I was overtaking at 120 KMPH

So... how fast was the truck going?

69 mustang

I've a full licence for over 10years and do an over average amount of mileage.
And the normal procedure for over taking by what would be classed as a good, courteous driver, on 1,2 or 3 lanes is to do it as safely and quickly as possible other than that all cars would be limited to 120kph as you would have no need for reserved power.
If some one wants to go faster than me I'll just let them.

{Then get behind him and use him as a speed camera decoy }:)

maidhc

mackerski wrote:

Within seconds, you say? They would have to have been doing very considerably in excess of the limit to have caught up with you that quickly - either that, or they were already quite close to you when you began your manouevre. If the latter, how come you didn't see them in your mirror and delay your lane change as the rules require?


Dermot

I think the point was that they were doing far in excess of the speed limit.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

I think the point was that they were doing far in excess of the speed limit.

No, you're not getting it

It is the responsibility of the driver about to overtake, among other things, to ensure there is no fast traffic in the overtaking lane already, that he might obstruct by overtaking, regardless of the speed of that traffic

Most people in Ireland only take a single glimpse in the mirror before overtaking. This will give an indication of the distance traffic in the overtaking lane already is away

To assess speed of the traffic in the overtaking lane already, a driver needs to assess traffic behind continously

To calculate the time a driver has to complete the overtaking manoeuvre, well before traffic already in the overtaking lane would be obstructed, both distance and speed are required

Works fine anywhere on the continent, particularly in Germany. It kinda needs to work there

mackerski

maidhc wrote:

I think the point was that they were doing far in excess of the speed limit.

All the more reason, surely, not to pull out in front of him without looking. Some of the interim posts on this topic seem to have been eaten in the upgrade, but somebody pulled me up on the distinction I chose to draw between exceeding the speed limit and driving dangerously. I maintain that there is a difference, given that the Irish motorway limit is artificially low. I have driven safely on many roads at considerably in excess of the Irish speed limit. That to do so in Ireland is illegal is clear. However, even here we have a completely different (and more serious) offence of dangerous driving.

On the subject of cars coming out of nowhere - in 15 years of driving, this has never happened to me. I have, occasionally, been embarassed not to notice a car that had come out of somewhere, but that's a different thing and, in the context of an overtaking manoeuvre, my fault.

On a straight road like the M1, you can see a long way back, if you choose to look. While driving, you should always check behind you regularly to build a picture of the road behind, though not in the detail needed to assess the speed of the vehicles you see. However, as you approach a vehicle you wish to overtake, you have ample time to prepare for your overtake manoeuvre, and part of that preparation is to check several times that the overtaking lane is clear for you to enter it. This is the point where, over the course of a few glances, you realise that a car is approaching very fast and resolve to wait until the danger passes - and you will see it, even if you're doing 120 and he's at 180. That you might be sitting at the speed limit already is no excuse for not looking - in fact, that people are tempted to assume this is one drawback of a fixed limit.

You're all free to take the moral high ground and claim that speeders should be strung up by the goolies - but not, IMHO, until we devise an even more cruel and unusual punishment for people who change lane without looking. There's nothing in the rules of the road that excuses you from your obligation to yield right of way just because the other bloke shouldn't be there.

Having said all that, tailgating is one of the more dangerous things you can do on a high-speed road, so don't assume that I'm looking to issue a blanket pardon to "the other guy".

Dermot

maidhc

I dont think woody was particularly referring to him pulling out in front of anyone, but merely that within seconds there were people flashing in his rear view mirror. Different things.

I dont think there is anything inherently dangerous about crossing into the overtaking lane if there is a car well in the distance behind you. If that car is doing 50mph over the speed limit I fail to see how it is your problem if he cant maintain that speed due to you overtaking a truck at the legal limit.

If the car in the distance is doing far in excess of the limit he will catch up to you before you have moved back into the inside lane, but, again, so what?

You do have a duty to drive with care and skill, but I dont believe there is a duty to make sure someone doing far in excess of the speed limit isnt delayed because you have the audicity to overtake...

unkel

maidhc wrote:

I dont think there is anything inherently dangerous about crossing into the overtaking lane if there is a car well in the distance behind you

Yes there is, again not only depending on the distance but also on the speed of that car

maidhc wrote:

If that car is doing 50mph over the speed limit I fail to see how it is your problem if he cant maintain that speed due to you overtaking a truck at the legal limit

Nothing to do with you, it could be a Garda, an ambulance, someone bringing somebody critically ill to hospital or of course someone who is speeding for no particular reason other than that they like it

Fact remains, you have a duty to overtake safely. Overtaking at or below the speed limit is not safe in above case so you shouldn't do it

69 mustang

In countries with real motorways you will get a be flagged out of that lane by the Police or ticketed for driving at or below the speed limit in the over taking lane.
Its distance that's important relative to speed.

Britain is a mush better driver experience than here maybe its due to the dedicated Traffic Police and fixed rules.

BrianD3

maidhc wrote:

I dont think woody was particularly referring to him pulling out in front of anyone, but merely that within seconds there were people flashing in his rear view mirror. Different things.

I dont think there is anything inherently dangerous about crossing into the overtaking lane if there is a car well in the distance behind you. If that car is doing 50mph over the speed limit I fail to see how it is your problem if he cant maintain that speed due to you overtaking a truck at the legal limit.

If the car in the distance is doing far in excess of the limit he will catch up to you before you have moved back into the inside lane, but, again, so what?

You do have a duty to drive with care and skill, but I dont believe there is a duty to make sure someone doing far in excess of the speed limit isnt delayed because you have the audicity to overtake...

I would tend to agree with this. The situation is not as black and white as some are suggesting. I mean what happens if some guy is testing out his new Veyron and is tearing along the overtaking lane of an Irish Motorway at ~400 km/h. I know it's not gonna happen but the principle still applies. In this case a car could almost "appear out of nowhere". Are drivers travelling at the legal limit supposed to be checking for cars 5 km behind approaching at a closing speed of ~300 km/h and ensuring that they time their overtaking maneouvres so that they don't inconvenience these approaching vehicles in the slightest. OK this is an extreme example but at what point does the approaching car deemed to be travelling "unreasonably fast" for the conditions.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but on derestricted sections of German autobahns if you go above a certain speed aren't you deemed to be partly liable for any crash that occurs. Even if the crash was caused by somone else doing something completely stupid.

And given that all Irish motorways have a legally binding speed limit surely the speed of vehicles would be more important still when apportioning blame for any crash.

mackerski

maidhc wrote:

I dont think woody was particularly referring to him pulling out in front of anyone, but merely that within seconds there were people flashing in his rear view mirror. Different things.

How are they different? It might depend on the number of seconds we're talking about here - if it was about 60, then no, the cars probably weren't there when he pulled out. Having said that, that seems an awful long time in the overtaking lane to get past one truck.

There are, of course, road hogs who think that any slower car should immediately clear the overtaking lane even if engaged in a bone fide overtaking manouevre. They are, of course, to be condemned. But if they appeared behing woody in a small number of seconds, then I can't see how he would have pulled out in front of them.

maidhc wrote:

I dont think there is anything inherently dangerous about crossing into the overtaking lane if there is a car well in the distance behind you. If that car is doing 50mph over the speed limit I fail to see how it is your problem if he cant maintain that speed due to you overtaking a truck at the legal limit.

If the car in the distance is doing far in excess of the limit he will catch up to you before you have moved back into the inside lane, but, again, so what?

Here lies the body of Willie Grey,
he died defending his right-of-way,
he was right, dead right, as the day is long,
but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Do I need to draw a picture here? There are two reasons you yield to traffic who have right of way over you (such as cars already in the lane you wish to enter):

1. Because the law requires you to. Coincidentally, this seems to be the reason you think those other motorists should stick to the speed limit, so it ought to carry some weight with you.

2. Because it is very much your problem if a car at that speed hits you. Remember that old road-safety thingy? You remember, it's your guiding principle when in control of a big dangerous vehicle. It's the same reason the law imposes a speed limit. Anyway, those principles of safety also say that you avoid putting yourself or others in danger when driving a car. Guess what? Changing lane in front of a car whose speed you don't know is dangerous. Dangerous to the point of undermining any high-minded theories that driver might have about the importance of the speed limit or any other rule of the road. Not that it's a strange attitude in a country where our road carnage has for years been tackled by only three safety messages, none of which reads "Lads, yiz are crap drivers, catch yourselves on!".

Driving in front of a car whose speed you do know to be excessive is just plain suicidal, and displays a vigilantiism that suggests that the driver doing so should be relieved of his licence. I've seen one set of police footage of a driver doing just that - he lost his licence for a really long time, it was either five years or a lifetime ban.

And for completeness, changing lane in front of a car you don't even realise to be there in the first place is nothing to be proud of either.

maidhc wrote:

You do have a duty to drive with care and skill, but I dont believe there is a duty to make sure someone doing far in excess of the speed limit isnt delayed because you have the audicity to overtake...

We may have different definitions of care and skill. My expressed view was that unawareness of the cars behind is dangerous. You seem to be suggesting that you should either ignore hazards from behind or actively court them - this tends to undermine the validity of your disapproval of anybody else's behaviour on the roads.

Dermot

mike65

Surely the main point here is too protect life and limb though intelligent driving and if that means holding fire until you are as sure as you can be, within reason that you won't collect some asshole doing 50 over the limit then so be it. Why get killed proving some point?

Mike.

pedro ferio-vti

Think the point of this thread has gone over everybody's head while the debate the in's and out's of the ROTR. Does nobody agree that you do see a lot of driver's speeding on yellow/UK plates? Obviously they're not the only ones but I do get the impression they think they're invincible while driving in the south.

mackerski

Maybe we should return to the spirit of the OP: With all this dangerous behaviour on one stretch of road, you'd imagine there'd be a high accident rate on the M1. Presumably most of the accidents would be caused by NI drivers. There are probably even figures that would back the theory up. Having identified this blackspot, we'd then be in a position to advocate some useful initiatives to boost road safety by targetting this anti-social behaviour.

No doubt that's what this thread was actually supposed to be about and I just didn't pick up on it at first. Sorry about that.

Dermot

69 mustang

mackerski wrote:

Maybe we should return to the spirit of the OP: With all this dangerous behaviour on one stretch of road, you'd imagine there'd be a high accident rate on the M1. Presumably most of the accidents would be caused by NI drivers. There are probably even figures that would back the theory up. Having identified this blackspot, we'd then be in a position to advocate some useful initiatives to boost road safety by targetting this anti-social behaviour.
Dermot

That's what behind closed doors would be called a bad investment.
Much easier money to be made out of registered Irish drivers with an Irish address.

unkel

mackerski wrote:

Maybe we should return to the spirit of the OP: With all this dangerous behaviour on one stretch of road, you'd imagine there'd be a high accident rate on the M1. Presumably most of the accidents would be caused by NI drivers. There are probably even figures that would back the theory up. Having identified this blackspot, we'd then be in a position to advocate some useful initiatives to boost road safety by targetting this anti-social behaviour.

No doubt that's what this thread was actually supposed to be about and I just didn't pick up on it at first. Sorry about that.

Dermot

*spits drink*

maidhc

Please dont get me wrong, I'm not talking about hogging the outside lane, or pulling out in front of a car with a relative speed of +50mph. I am certainly not condoning pulling out in front of car as it tries to overtake you. I'm saying if you pull out in front of a car say 1 mile back, but with much higher relative speed.

Just merely refering to those situations when passing out a truck, (or 10 in a row) where you start getting flashed at because you have the cheek to do the limit, or even 10k over it. And they are not all doctors and sick people...

We can of course discuss (argue) all day the merits and otherwise of different driving styles, mirror use, road manners, and not get anywhere, but what I am suggesting is not a black and white situation (Indeed if it came to it I would be very much of the view that the faster driver would be found grossly negligent, and possibly be imprisoned for involuntary manslaughter, but again that is little solace if you are dead.).

I can't say whether NI drivers are any worse than southern drivers. I havn't seen an NI car in years down these parts!

el tel

maidhc wrote:

I can't say whether NI drivers are any worse than southern drivers. I havn't seen an NI car in years down these parts!

Well watch out tomorrow for something blue, low, wide, fast and very loud. And of course the driving will be exemplary ;-)