Have a look at these:)

Matfinn

Here are a list of comments I am going to put down below. Have a look at them and tell me your opinions on them.

1: As long as Eircom have control over the telephone infrastructure in this country, Irish internet users will never have a fair deal when it comes to internet access.

2: High prices and service sanctions ( capping/bandwidth choking ) will send internet growth in Ireland spiralling downwards.

3: A viable option for cheap internet access is for users in Ireland to setup wireless based WAN's ( wide area networks ). These can be put together by a few users who can share an internet connection and split costs accordingly. Over the years, these local WAN's can merge together to form a new National based wireless infrastructure.

4: Irelandoffline will be in existence in a years time from now.

5: Telco's are reluctant to release flatrate services because they feel that these services will be abused constantly.

6: Abuse of a flatrate service will result in a poorer service for other users. In the case of Esat no-limits, the user to modem ratio wasnt enough, and some users who were logged on for hours would have taken up the use of one of esat's modems, resulting in an engaged tone for someone who wanted to connect at a particular busy time. Eircom's fear of abuse of a flatrate 56k service would be the same, more so than bandwidth usage.

7: I fail to see why Eircom fear that a 56k flatrate solution would relult in massive losses on their part. They own the telephone infrastructure, and as a result they would be paying only themselves for the use of the line.

8: One possible reason for Eircom's reluctance to release a flatrate solution is because they have to pay money to other telco's in other countries if users are sending and recieving data between these countries.




Theres all the comments. I know some of these things have been discussed before, but I want you to have a look at them and let us all know do you agree or disagree with them, and why.


Thanks for reading

Matt

JANER

And what of all these points that you make?
are you sending them to somebody/place?

BoneCollector

I agree with all!

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by Matfinn
6: Abuse of a flatrate service will result in a poorer service for other users. In the case of Esat no-limits, the user to modem ratio wasnt enough, and some users who were logged on for hours would have taken up the use of one of esat's modems, resulting in an engaged tone for someone who wanted to connect at a particular busy time. Eircom's fear of abuse of a flatrate 56k service would be the same, more so than bandwidth usage.

It works in America. So it will work here as well. Actually the only reason why the modem-to-use ratio was so bad at Esat NoLimits was because Esat had to pay such high interconnect rates to Eircom, resulting in them deciding not to invest further money in the service.

And, when buying modems in bulk, they shouldn't cost much more than IR£10 a pop. If Eircom charges say IR£15 for 24/7 flat-rate Internet access, and has a user to modem ratio of 5 to 1, that's a once-off IR£2 investment per customer!

Baud

1. Well, Valentia will have it soon, but yeah, until the government takes it back, it's looking bad.

2. Yeah, but that's a given. High prices and no competition doesn't make any market grow.

3. WAN's are only of use when you have line of sight. There have been discussions about them for ages, but unless you have the money to put down, and the visibility to be able to get to another node, it's fairly useless.

4. IrelandOffline will exist until people are happy enough with the service they're getting.

5/6. Telco's aren't worried about people abusing the service. They're worried about making money. If Eircom sold a flat rate package, Esat wouldn't loose money on No-Limits. Eircom won't give a flat rate service because they don't understand the idea of not billing by the minute. They are convinced that having the line up costs them money by the minute, so they charge by the minute. In the case of Surf No-Limits, it was costing esat such a stupid amount of money that they had to cancel it. Remember, they're a company, not a semi-state body waiting for Mary Harney to bail them out. I wouldn't expect it-direct to keep selling me something if they kept making a loss on it, why expect Esat.

8. I'm not sure I have any understanding of this? How can it cost Eircom money if you send data internationally? It's a data call, and you're not ringing internationally. In fact, if it costs anyone, it costs esat.

Matfinn

Originally posted by JANER
And what of all these points that you make?
are you sending them to somebody/place?

I am not sending these points to anyone in any particular place. I know that various telco's look at this forum, and I just wanted to see what people thought thats all

Matt

phaxx

Baud: It costs for eircom to "peer", or send data over, other provider's networks. You don't get to use things such as those fat transatlantic fibres for nothing! They cost an absolute bomb to maintain.

R. Daneel Olivaw

Originally posted by phaxx
Baud: It costs for eircom to "peer", or send data over, other provider's networks. You don't get to use things such as those fat transatlantic fibres for nothing! They cost an absolute bomb to maintain.

It does cost them, but the charges are not as high as you think. I am searching now for the E3 prices Eircom charge, but it appears that they have favoured a "email us for corporate waffle talk" approach as opposed to listing prices on the websites.

From what I remember from around 1999, aroudn 90% of the monthly cost of leased lines in Ireland are purely Eircom income. The vast minority is for international bandwidth rental.

I remember something like £17000/month in Ireland for an E3 (around 34MBit/sec) compared to around $3000/month for a T3 in the US (around 44.7MBit/sec).

I can't find the damn prices now. I know Eircom had them somewhere before online.........

NeilF

Originally posted by phaxx
Baud: It costs for eircom to "peer", or send data over, other provider's networks. You don't get to use things such as those fat transatlantic fibres for nothing! They cost an absolute bomb to maintain.

What follows is based on what I can remember from the seminar so I am open to correction Mary O'Rourke said that the government has spent 30 million (?) on bringing international connectivity to Ireland. If that is the case then are we not entitled to use it?

In any case I don't think bandwidth into Ireland is the problem. They are just fleecing people with their caps. I think it is similar to how Eircom liked charging a few quid every month to rent a phone rather than just adding a tenner to the installation. Is ADSL the same? Charging a low installation fee and setting the rental high. I would have thought Eircom's biggest cost was the equipment for exchanges etc. I could be prepared to pay a higher installation fee in exchange for a realistic monthly rental which reflected the true costs involved to them, specifically any maintenance and internet connectivity.

Neville

Originally posted by NeilF


Mary O'Rourke said that the government has spent 30 million (?) on bringing international connectivity to Ireland. If that is the case then are we not entitled to use it?

No. Its a commercial product.
AFAIK the government mostly underwrote projects in case the cable was never lit up.

I could be prepared to pay a higher installation fee in exchange for a realistic monthly rental which reflected the true costs involved to them, specifically any maintenance and internet connectivity.

Ditto. I am not sure that the installation fee is unrealistic though.
But I haven't got the prices of Exchange side investment, and a thread I started on the subject got no responses with facts and figures.

NeilF

Originally posted by Neville
Ditto. I am not sure that the installation fee is unrealistic though.
But I haven't got the prices of Exchange side investment, and a thread I started on the subject got no responses with facts and figures.

Who knows how much this is actually costing Eircom. I doubt they know themselves since they've had so many trials etc. However, the most comprehensive attempt at costs I have seen was in an IIU post sometime ago about DIY ADSL. Installation is a bit higher but monthly rental less.