Penalty points

xzanti

Got a letter in the door last week, caught doing 96 on the Lucan by pass (80 zone) yes I know its a notoriuos spot, unfortuntely I wasnt aware of this until I got the fine and everyone informed me
Anyway, was telling a guy in work whos from the North and he reckons if I put his name and address on the form when paying the fine I wont recieve the 2 penalty points because aparently people from Northern Ireland cannot be penalised for traffic offences committed in the South... So my question is... Is this correct and am I risking getting into more trouble if I take him up on his kind offer and get found out??? Sounds too good to be true to me and I only have a couple more weeks to pay the fine before it goes up... As far as I am aware he has a full licence and is insured to drive any car...

Cheers

rubadub

Sounds like a good plan, if the insurance thing is correct. I would ring you insurance and ask if he can be on it. Then go for it. I think I was done in the same money making spot in my mothers car and there was no checking up on me or questioning when I paid it, I was a named driver. Sounds similar.

sceptre

Motors forum. Moving from AH.

To answer your question, there's currently no facility for giving points to nordie drivers for road traffic offences south of the border, however, there's a possibility it'll be introduced in the next three years while your points still live and may be transferred to your mate's licence at that time but there's a school of thought that might well think that if he's dumb enough to take that risk and if you're dishonest enough to encourage and facilitate it then who am I to argue with your friend's obvious blind generosity, assuming you're not bunging him a bit of extra cash on the side for being such a nice bloke.

ciarsd

where about on the N4 where you caught? what type of detection was used?

If it's the usual Gatso, photo. evidence is provided for every offence, and believe me, the pictures are very very clear to make out the person in the driving seat.

thread carefully.

xzanti

ciarsd wrote:

where about on the N4 where you caught? what type of detection was used?

If it's the usual Gatso, photo. evidence is provided for every offence, and believe me, the pictures are very very clear to make out the person in the driving seat.

thread carefully.

Yeah it was the camera flash thingy, dont think there where any gardai on the road, just a fixed camera... Yeah think ill just take the points tbh, I can do without the hassle.. Cheers

ciarsd

ah right, at the Lucan Spa hotel? thats a serious cash machine for the state coffers. It is like a disco strobe most weekend nights!

xzanti

ciarsd wrote:

ah right, at the Lucan Spa hotel? thats a serious cash machine for the state coffers. It is like a disco strobe most weekend nights!

Yup... racing home of a saturday evening from clane for a big night out and FLASH... and I wasnt even smiling :rolleyes: Sure ill know for again...

69 mustang

The Spa camera gets you from behind no mug shot.:eek: ( bet thats what it felt like too) :eek: I've heard of people using your mates plan before.
Decide which is more of a crime a speed camera at the end of a motorway (& not at a school etc) or your using your mates licence number and name.
like the add says
"GET THE POINT NOT THE POINTS"
Also under EU law isn't its Illegal to be asked to incriminate your self.

testicle

Didn't know the EU had laws...

69 mustang

testicle wrote:

Didn't know the EU had laws...

O yea lots and some good ones too but the Irish government only use the ones that pay up. Or if they can double up on them with say a name change.

fletch

I've been reliably informed that, yes this method does in fact work. On the letter that you receive there is a section asking who was driving the car at the time. Once you enter a valid name and address (a mate in Northern Ireland or UK for eg), then the request for the fine and points will be sent there. Your mate receives the letter and just rips it up as the Gardai have no jurisdiction outside their country.
Few caveats, if the Gardai investigate whether the person was in the country at the time or whether or not they were insured etc, there could be problems....also if your mate is subsequently stopped down the south and a copper decides to look him up, it might come to light that he has some outstanding moneys owing......
Personally I'd go for it, chances of the Gardai following up on it is verry slim!

dahamsta

Strictly speaking the EU doesn't have laws, it passes directives down to the member states, which then pass them into local law.

adam

samo

Just following on from Fletch's points above. I have a horrible feeling that I went past a fixed camera (van type) near Liffey Valley yesterday at about 88kph in an 80...should I get points for it, does anyone know if its possible to say that in my case my partner was driving (who is also named driver) and pay the fine but avoid the points as he has a UK licence??

sceptre

69 mustang wrote:

Decide which is more of a crime a speed camera at the end of a motorway (& not at a school etc) or your using your mates licence number and name.

Do I really have to actually think about making a choice there? This isn't a high-horse post from me, more a "what a dumb rhetorical question" post.

BrianD

69 mustang wrote:

The Spa camera gets you from behind no mug shot.:eek: ( bet thats what it felt like too) :eek: I've heard of people using your mates plan before.
Decide which is more of a crime a speed camera at the end of a motorway (& not at a school etc) or your using your mates licence number and name.
like the add says
"GET THE POINT NOT THE POINTS"
Also under EU law isn't its Illegal to be asked to incriminate your self.

This section of the road is clearly signed 80K and it's also some distance away from the end of the M4.

The use of a foreign driver licence is being used frequently. Be clear that you are committing fraud and that there are penalties for doing this. Your friend will also have the points applied to any Irish licence that he may apply for.

AFAIK the Gardai will not send the form to your "foreign drivers address" - you nominte the driver and pay the fine.

69 mustang

fletch wrote:

if your mate is subsequently stopped down the south and a copper decides to look him up, it might come to light that he has some outstanding moneys owing......
Personally I'd go for it, chances of the Gardai following up on it is verry slim!

That's only if he doesn't pay the fine.

Our man in Havana

BrianD wrote:

AFAIK the Gardai will not send the form to your "foreign drivers address" - you nominte the driver and pay the fine.

They have to send it to the nominated person. The form even says send no money if nominating a driver a separate notice will be sent to them.

I see the current law as being flawed, making assumptions that the registered owner was driving. Like wtf? Surely if the reg kepper has an alibi then it can't fly. Has there not been any serious challenges to the penalty points law yet?

In the UK the first letter makes no mention of money and just asks who was driving. You either admit it or snitch on someone else and then they send you a letter demanding the money and points. If you don't tell who was driving they charge you with failing to supply information and not the original speeding as they cannot prove that the RK was driving. Assumptions are not proof!

Seth Brundle

[true story]
Just FYI, there was a recent case where a guy in the UK got his girlfrient to take the points hit as he was already on 10 and didn't want to lose his licence.
Anyhow, it worked until he decided to go online and tell the world about his illegal activities and his forum posts were promptly viewed by surfing police. Both he and his GF were in the brown stuff

Be careful what you say online. It can remain there indefinitley!

maidhc

Seems like a very risky thing to do if there is clear photo evidence of you in the car.

Self incrimination isnt part of EU law, but part of the common law, i.e. the law developed by Judges in the UK (pre independence) and Ireland.

The EU does very much have laws. Those which do not need to be implemented by national governments are known as regulations, while those that must be transposed into national law are directives. If a country fails to transpose a directive they can be brought to the European Court of Justice, and also the unimplmented directive can in many circumstances be relied upon by individuals in member states anyway once the date for implementation has passed.

European Law is superior to the Irish Constitution (Article 29.7 of the Constitution), and all other domestic laws.