Stolen and A Promise to Nadia

LegacyUser

Hi all,

I have just finished reading 2 books by Zana Muhsen, "Sold" and "A Promise to Nadia" (ghost written by Andrew Crofts).

The basics of the story:
2 girls brough up in Birmingham, a father born in The Yemen, but with British citizenship. The father left Yemen when he was 14 as he didn't want an arranged marriage. In 1980, the father sent his two daughters (Zana - 15 and Nadia - 13) to Yemen on a holiday for 6 weeks, they were thrilled at the idea to see his country. When they got there, they found out they were married to two Yemens.

Anyways .. Zana returned to the UK after 8 years, leaving her son behind. Her sister would not leave the 2 children. It appears she had the choice to leave.

I have a few questions to ask the Islam community. Please don't get me wrong, I do not wish to cause anyone offence in the least. I just want to get an understanding. Please correct if my interpretation of the muslim religion/Islam ?? is incorrect.

If these girls did not agree to marry these men .. then by Muslim religion the marriages were illegal. The children they bore illegitimate? I don't understand why the Yemeni gov. keeps so hush about it and do not allow her family to visit. Is it that the whole affair brings shame on The Yemen, pride, or is it the fact that Nadia is a woman and does not deserve to see her family. I know in countries like The Yemen that women are not given as much freedom as in the western world.

I know there are 2 sides to every story. The impression I get is that when interviews ae set up Nadia is forced to say that she wants to live in Yemen and is happy. She could be beaten or have a rougher life if she expressed her true feeling. On the other side, she has been there for 25 years at this stage.

I feel really really sad for Nadia, tricked into a marriage. Verybad situation to be in. It would be a lot easier if she was brought up in the Yemen, but everything would have been different.

But I also wonder, at this stage, even if she was allowed to come back to England, she would have to leave her children behind. What would she have?? 25 years is a long long time.

I dunno .. sorry for mouthing off, thinking out loud.

Has anyone else read the books? Any thoughts?

B

Wibbs

Maybe others will disagree, but his seems to be a cultural/traditional thing more than Islam. AFAIK Islam insists that both parties have to agree to a marriage, even if it's arranged. In fact in that they were well ahead of the much of the west in the past. That would be my 2cents on it for what it's worth.

While some might contend that the woman's position in Islam(practical, not spiritual) may make this kind of thing more common(part of me would agree with that), the Quranic instructions seemed pretty clear on the question of consent that last time I looked. The woman does have the right to say no.

kirkit

i want to say something.zana ,nadia or me can live different events.
meanwhile islamic gov. can behavior very bad.for these reasons we cant say islam is very bad.we can say nadia and zana's father and yemeni gov behaved very bad.
in fact islam wants freedom and happy. if you want to understand about islam religeon. you must read life of Muhammed(Muhammed is prophet of my religeon) and Quraan. in fact Quraan is God's words.
i hope didnt wrong.i m Turk and i dont know english well.

LegacyUser

Wibbs and Kirkid, you both make excellent points!! Thanks for taking the time to reply. I think it is worth me reading the books you mention Kirkid, as it will give me a better understanding. I really would like to read more about the subject.

Thanks again for the replies.

Kirkib, I respect you point about Islam not being to blame for what Nadia's father did, or what a Government did. I guess her father must have believed it was best for her. I totally agree with what you are saying.

OfflerCrocGod

kirkit wrote:

in fact Quraan is God's words.

Actually it's Muhammed's words who then claimed that they were God's words. Small, but important, difference.

Wibbs

Actually, since we're talking about the Islamic faith here, they believe it is God's/Allah's words, as revealed to Muhammed. That might be the small, but important, difference.

OfflerCrocGod

Wibbs wrote:

Actually, since we're talking about the Islamic faith here, they believe it is God's/Allah's words, as revealed to Muhammed. That might be the small, but important, difference.

My statement is still factually correct. The faith of people does not chage facts, although some do wish it could.

LegacyUser

Wibbs wrote:

Actually, since we're talking about the Islamic faith here, they believe it is God's/Allah's words, as revealed to Muhammed. That might be the small, but important, difference.

OK .. so is the Quraan Allah's words or Muhammed's interpretation of Allah's words? Who's words do Muslims give priority to?

Where would you find Allah's words?

Wibbs

AFAIK and I'm not a Muslim*, Muslims believe that the Quran is the word of Allah as revealed to Muhammed, the last prophet of God. Muslims give priority to the words in the Quran.


While Muhammed is considered by many to have lived his life in a righteous way and is to be emulated, it all goes back to the Quran. Hadeeth and sharia are icing on the cake so to speak and if either contradict the Quran, those passages are discounted.

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

My statement is still factually correct. The faith of people does not chage facts, although some do wish it could.

With respect, it is factually correct in your opinion. In a Muslims opinion it is factually correct that the Quran is the word of Allah. To each his own. If you don't agree with that fine. I might agree with you, I might not. I would like to be so wise as you to know anything of this nature for sure.







* If you read my other posts on this forum, you may find it amusing that I'm the one defending the Islamic faith while trying to answer this question. In fact I suspect Hobbes and others will p!ss themselves laughing at the irony of it all. Poblachtach probably thinks there's hope for me yet.:D .

bonkey

Wibbs wrote:

In a Muslims opinion it is factually correct that the Quran is the word of Allah.

I think you are confusing what a fact is with what you might want it to be.

As you yourself say, the above is a Muslim's opinion of what the writings are. Therefore, by definition, it is not fact.

To each his own.

Indeed, but that still doesn't turn belief into fact. Some may like to believe that there is no difference....but thats just a belief and has no basis in fact

In theory, there is no difference between practice in theory. In practice it doesn't quite work like that.
Similarly, one can believe that belief and fact are the same, but that won't alter the fact that they aren't.

OCGs comment is factually correct. It doesn't matter on the belief of the person telling or being told...the statement is still correct. The "correctness" that it is the word of God will depend on the stance of the person being told...ergo it is a belief.

There's nothing wrong with beliefs. I believe (!) however, that there is something wrong with refusing to distinguish belief and fact.

jc

Wibbs

bonkey wrote:

I think you are confusing what a fact is with what you might want it to be.

Nope not at all.

As you yourself say, the above is a Muslim's opinion of what the writings are. Therefore, by definition, it is not fact.

And it's OfflerCrocGod's opinion that it is not a fact. That's his belief. Personally I agree with him, but it doesn't alter the fact:D that a Muslim like Kirkit regards it as fact.

Indeed, but that still doesn't turn belief into fact. Some may like to believe that there is no difference....but thats just a belief and has no basis in fact

Ouch.:D

OCGs comment is factually correct.

In his opinion. Can he prove that it's not the word of Allah. Of course not, no more than someone who believes can prove it is. Since neither can be absolutely sure either way, it's a fact up for grabs.

There's nothing wrong with beliefs. I believe (!) however, that there is something wrong with refusing to distinguish belief and fact.

To most religious types belief and fact are one and the same.

Anyhoo, we've gone a bit OT here. Bubby, if you go to the links and resources link you should get answers to your questions about the basis of Islamic faith.

LegacyUser

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

OfflerCrocGod

Wibbs wrote:

With respect, it is factually correct in your opinion. In a Muslims opinion it is factually correct that the Quran is the word of Allah. To each his own. If you don't agree with that fine. I might agree with you, I might not. I would like to be so wise as you to know anything of this nature for sure.

Sorry but a fact is a fact regardless of a person's opinion on the fact, opinion is meaningless when it comes to facts. In my opinion the world is flat.......well it's not and the facts don't care about my opinion. Muslims believe what M preached was the word of God; it's their belief; it doesn't change the fact that it was M doing the preaching. He is refered to as prophet for a reason. You are confusing fact and faith.

Wibbs wrote:

Can he prove that it's not the word of Allah.

I don't have to. What I'm saying is that M preached what he said was the word of God; all I said was that it was M doing the preaching and not God and that is the truth.

Wibbs wrote:

Of course not, no more than someone who believes can prove it is. Since neither can be absolutely sure either way, it's a fact up for grabs.

Of course I can't. No one can prove a negative. Read up on it.

Bottom line: never appeal to lack of proof of the negative, it is logical fallacy, a form of argument from ignorance.

Anyway that's not what I was talking about.

Wibbs wrote:

To most religious types belief and fact are one and the same.

...........I don't even know if I should bother.....just re-read what I've already posted I've covered this already. Belief and fact are not the same. It doesn't matter who you are that statement is true. Belief is what you get in the absence of facts. Facts don't need belief.

websterclan

hi i have just read both the books, yes it has been a long time since she went over, i cant beleive in this day & age that the goverment has not step in, the two girls were born here, there mother wes never married to there father, so how can they be allowed to stay there, also i thought if you were forced into an arrange marriage it is forbidden, last week on sky news there was a lady doctor, english , she was forced into an arrange marriage, our goverment step in straight the way , she was allowed back home, yes again it has been a long time , but this dose not mean that she should not be allowed back to england, i hope one day she ie reunited with her family, xxxx

Jari

.. so is the Quraan Allah's words or Muhammed's interpretation of Allah's words? Who's words do Muslims give priority to?

Where would you find Allah's words?[/quote]
hi
yes Quran is Allah's word was revealed to prophet Mohammed. Muslim give priority to Quran first. Muslim believe that prophet Mohammed was sent by god to all mankind to show the way how they worship Allah. prophet Mohammed does not forgive sins

balkanac

CENSORSHIP BY A NON MUSLIM MODERATOR

lenore

I haven't read 'A Promise To Nadia' yet, but I have read 'Sold' and it was a terrible read in the sense that the events described were horrifying. It's sad that Nadia and her children were left behind.

Firstly, I am not a Muslim. Also, a fact is only a fact when it is proved to be so. For example, it was fact that the world was flat, until it was proven that it is in fact a sphere. Religion and Atheism do not rely on facts but opinions, morals and beliefs. It is crazy to think that people still dismiss other peoples beliefs and thoughts just because they clash with their own.