Property Management Companies

Sponge Bob

Ken Shabby wrote:

You'll find it very difficult to find one that doesn't these days, but no doubt they exist.

I bought a semi to live in on a new estate in 1995, we (residents) all chipped in (initially) £50 a year to mow the lawns/landscape and make it look nice , this was in an ad hoc fund . The builder fixed drains and lights as and when .

Nowadays there is a rather expensive company to do all of this kinda stuff. The council took it in charge about 2001 and never called in the completion bond either ...the completion bond is there in case the builder legs it and the council has to finish the estate off and repair it as it takes it in charge.

dahamsta

Out of curiousity, are there any plain english guides out there on this kind of stuff, notably handoffs to councils?

adam

Sponge Bob

Ken Shabby wrote:

Out of curiousity, are there any plain english guides out there on this kind of stuff, notably handoffs to councils?

No , you chat to people in 3-5 year old estates and find out that way, you can also talk to the local councillors who do know what the local norms are...some councils will wait 5 years ...others 10.

Council does everything after they "Take In Charge" which is a legalish administrative term. "Handoff" is a sort of ..ummmm ..techie term innit. I assume the bond length indicates it, if its a 10 year completion bond they will wait that long I would say...your solicitor should be able to tell you that or see the original planning file.

Plankmonkey

Plankmonkey wrote:

I am indeed paying for ESB to lighting, maintenance of the common area (what common area??), AGM meeting and stationery. Since when do we have to pay the ESB for public lighting? That's the councils job. As for being sued, if someone falls on the pavement whats that got to do with me? They can make a claim with the personal injuy claims (thats probably not what its called, can't think of its name!).

Where do I start.

You say there is no common areas? So do you all have your own individual roads in and out? You mean, you really cannot think of one area that's used in common with other owners?

The ESB must get paid for the service full stop. It's only up to the Council when they take something in charge. If you weren't advised that when you signed up, that's your problem, not the ESB's or the Council's. It's the real world, bills must get paid, and incorrectly assuming that it's the Council's responsibility was your own error.

If someone falls on land that's owned by another, they can sue that other person for negligence - whether they are successful or not of course depends on the facts. Just be glad that the common areas are not in the names of you and the other house owners, and that a management company exists to protect you from liability.

Plankmonkey wrote:

I don't think I'll have any problem selling the house if the management company was struck off, I'm sure it'd be the complete opposite.

You think wrong. You might have no problems, but the Solicitor for any Purchaser most certainly will, and that kinda puts a dampener on things, especially if he insists on your Solicitor withholding funds pending reinstatement of the management company.

Plankmonkey wrote:

What my point is if you take out what is supposed to be the councils job

It is only the 'council's job' when they take over responsibility for it. I don't think they have responsibliity to pick up the pieces for every developer and simply stretch their budget to cover yet another estate or development. And it takes years for the Council to take something over. They can hardly pay for the existing roads as it is. Would you rather pay rates or higher taxes then, because I would object to paying either to fund people's incorrect assumptions about what they were buying...

Plankmonkey

Deleted User wrote:

I would object to paying either to fund people's incorrect assumptions about what they were buying...

Firstly, I'm not assuming anything. Secondly, my "management" company are not managing anything, unless you call spraying weed killer every six months management.

OK I get you on the being sued bit but are you telling me I must pay €500+ a year just in case someone hurts themselves on the estate? Do I get my money back once it is handed over to the council and nobody has been sued? Fat chance. Is my money going into a collective kitty that is used to pay towards a ridiculously monstrous insurance premium? No it's not.

You say I have signed up for a management company and I must live with it, I'm saying I want something for my money. Your (plural I don't just mean Conor74) attitude is typically Irish, there's a thread somewhere here about how Irish people never complain. I think I'll go join that I'm done here....

dahamsta

You /have/ to have a management company. The only exception is if you and the rest of the residents decide to manage these operations yourselves, in which case - unless you and they are silly enough not to incorporate - you and the residents become the management company. It's a Catch 22: You /have/ to have a management company.

Either way, the management company is employed by the residents. If the management company isn't doing their job, someone has to organise the residents to either get them to live up to their contract, or replace them. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong but what you're doing here looks suspiciously like the behaviour you're pointing to: Complaining to everyone but the people that matter; complaining but not doing.

adam

Plankmonkey

Ken Shabby wrote:

Perhaps I'm reading you wrong but what you're doing here looks suspiciously like the behaviour you're pointing to: Complaining to everyone but the people that matter; complaining but not doing.

I complain to the people that matter. This is a discussion board, I'm trying to argue a point I'm not complaining to everyone.

You don't /Have/ to pay a yearly fee to a management company. I have wandered a bit in responding to other people but this is my argument.

I'll post the original link posted by Dub13 for those of you who have clearly not read it:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...207&eid=161346

You all seem to know better than the minister himself. My original argument, which is still my argument even though I may have wandered a bit, is that these charges may indeed be illegal. But hey you all seem to know better.

Plankmonkey

Plankmonkey wrote:

Secondly, my "management" company are not managing anything, unless you call spraying weed killer every six months management.

That's fair enough. I appreciate that there can always be issues with the quality of work being done, or lack of quality. But that's a problem with your management company, not a reason for suggesting there is an inherent flaw in the concept of management companies.

If the concept of management companies did not exist, conveyancing in Ireland would be a very different ballgame altogether.

Plankmonkey wrote:

OK I get you on the being sued bit but are you telling me I must pay €500+ a year just in case someone hurts themselves on the estate? Do I get my money back once it is handed over to the council and nobody has been sued? Fat chance. Is my money going into a collective kitty that is used to pay towards a ridiculously monstrous insurance premium? No it's not.

Well it should be. Frankly, if I found out that a management company failed to pay the public liability insurance I would be furious.

As for getting your money back, if you don't have a road traffic accident, does your insurance company reimburse you at the end of the year? And the suggestion that, not only should local authorities take over all roads but also pay the arrears of insurance premia is simply not reality.

Plankmonkey wrote:

You all seem to know better than the minister himself. My original argument, which is still my argument even though I may have wandered a bit, is that these charges may indeed be illegal. But hey you all seem to know better.

You are perfectly entitled to complain. Particularly about the quality of the work being done. But don't pretend the Minister was making some point he didn't. Nowhere did he remotely say there was anything wrong with management companies. He was making the point that it may be ultra vires the planning legislation to make conditions in this regard - one could form the opinion that the planning authorities should only be concerned with the quality of an application and should not use the planning acts to raise funds through bonds or alternatively to hide from their responsibilities to eventually take over the roads and services. If you or anyone has read Section 38 agreements (the contract between a management company and a local authority) you will know what I am talking about - I have seen them stretch to requiring the construction of sewage treatment plants. I suspect though the upshot will be that the legislation is changed to encompass this and validate the conditions, or else the local authorities will put extra emphasis on what the builders must do, and no doubt they will pass on that pice in increased building prices...

RainyDay

Those who are still interested in this important issue might like to read the transcripts of the Dail debate in November of Labour's private members motion to sort out the current mess. See links from Fergal Quinn's archive for the links to the debate. I picked up a few things that I didn't know from the debate as follows;

- Developers are abusing the rule that 'management company stays in the hands of developer until last apartment is sold' by holding onto 1-2 apartments in the block. This gives them ongoing control over the management company, and disenfranchises the other owners.

- Where the management company is not complying with its legal regulations (holding AGM's, publishing accounts), it is possible to take actions through the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement to replace the directors. This is no quick fix, but it can be done.

- Some local authorities are avoiding their responsibilities to manage common areas for new housing estates by a planning condition which gives responsibilities to the management company in perpituity. This leaves the householders to foot the bill directly.

- The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 gives tenants in apartment complexes only specific rights in relation to management companies for the first time - From http://www.lkshields.ie/htmdocs/publications/pub191a.htm;

The Act gives tenants certain rights in relation to management companies of apartment complexes. Management companies will be identified in tenancy registration details. Landlords are required to convey tenants' complaints to the management company, which must have regard to the complaint and furnish the landlord with a written statement which must be forwarded to the tenant, of steps to be taken to deal with the complaint. Tenants may request the management company to supply written particulars of service charges and how they were calculated and the company must comply to the extent that it would be obliged to comply with such a request from an apartment owner.

mire

moved into an aprtment scheme last year, and the scheme was 'managed' from july onwards so we paid for the remainder of the year (half). the management agents have written to request fees for 2006 and this includes a 300 increase - but this is accounted for by a 'one-off' fee for installing 3 satellite dishes and connecting each unit - is this not an element of the construction phase? surely it is not something that should be considered part of the management. is the management agent just trying to take the easy way out here instead of looking for the money from the builder/developer?

whippet

was the satelite dishes part of your contract with the 'builders' or is it an addition to the property that the agents have been proxied to provide?

Who requested the installation of the equipment?

armaghman23

hi i bought an apartment in castleforbes square in dublin last year. its just nearly ready for me to move into now. All of a sudden the developer has offered me the marketing suite if i will let them have the apartment i bought. I have paid my deposit already. I asked them why they want my apartment and they say that there is a problem and they cannot close for a long time, 24months??

what the hell is going on here?why do they want my aptmt so badly?
does anyone know any reasons for this?
the developer is danninger or aka zoe developments. the estate agents are hooke and macdonald.

I would be interested to hear any theroies

whippet

they probably have been made an offer they can't refuse on your apartment.

I have dealt with H&K before with leasing and to be honest I couldn't ever fault them.

Sounds like you are in a position to do a bit of haggling, don't accept their first offer!!

Dub13

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/02/28/story246941.html

Management fees ‘a scam to enrich greedy developers’
28/02/2006 - 14:03:15

Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins has launched a scathing attack on the local authorities in Dublin over the imposition of management fees on the residents of housing estates.

Speaking at a press conference in Dublin today, Mr Higgins said the councils were basically privatising public services by foisting management companies on thousands of householders.

Such companies are being established on new housing estates all over the city to maintain open spaces, roads, lighting and other services.



Residents are required to pay annual fees to these firms, which are often linked directly to the developers who built the estates in the first place.

A number of householders in the Tyrrelstown area of Dublin are being taken to court this Friday for refusing the pay the fees.

Mr Higgins said today that the whole management company structure was a scam designed to enrich greedy developers and help local authorities avoid their responsibility to provide upkeep services.

lomb

what is the title on these houses where service charges are paid. i very seriously doubt they are freehold. probably some kind of leasehold with a service charge provision inserted into the title . i cant see how anyone can legally insert a service charge provision into a freehold title.

what it probably is is (if u are lucky) a 999 year lease with a ground rent of 1 cent a year with a service charge provision in the title and the freehold transfered to the management company and each resident owning one share in the management company.

every year u pay your service charge and ground rent to the management company and every year they pay out for public liability and maintainance, directors fees, accountancy fees, and administration/legal fees.

if the council takes over what happens then, does the management company dissolve? what happens to the ground rent payment? and the title? seems like a weird system, the council should take over immediately as far as im concerned after the builder has left.

hp

Im new to this apartment ownership game and am finding it tough ! Wonder if anyone has any advice ? I'm also in an ex Zoe/ Danninger block which they built more than 12 years ago and havent handed over to the management co. There are 36 apartments in our block, down on the quays and our management agent is Premier - we pay around € 1060 per year. The building is in an awful state - graffitti everywhere, broken bicycles and rubbish etc. We recently went without water (no flushing, drinking, washing etc) for almost a week and I got some prices for a water pump (can you believe that there is no pump - Danninger must have overlooked that ....:-) and sent them over to the Premier so that they could look into getting one. Anyway, I was told that there is only € 600 in the account (ie no money) for the year and that they had put our water issue to Danninger / the directors and of course we have heard nothing back. We have been warned by the city council that without a pump we run the risk of future water shortages, perhaps even permanently. Of course Im the only owner occupier (I think) and am facing an uphill battle ! Ive been given the name of the other 2 committee members and think my next step is to contact them.

However on another note - more recent apartment developments have had a condition of their planning permission grant saying that they have to hand over ro residents and form a management company with the residents. Those of you with the same problem - have a look at the planning permission that you should have copies of from the sale documents, and if there is a condition, then get onto your local enforcement officer at the city council and get them onto the developer who is in breach of their planning conditions. It carries a fine / jail term so maybe that could get their attention

eamo73

I was the guy putting the heat on the mgt co expert on Gerry Ryan.
Anyone got SMYTH mgt co in thier development?
love to hear from u
i hav an email address on the subject
U R NOT ALONE!!!
ill be in touch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

eamo73

here is a few pages of info i have put together on MANAGEMENT COMPANIES.
hope it helps!
its a copy of several emails i have previously sent
eamo73 aka EAMONN

Dear Councillors,
Deputies,
Minister,
following is a statement I read out at a press conference organised by Joe Higgins TD and Catherine Murphy TD on Feb 28th.
I respectfully submit this to you all, as we need all the help, support, advice we can get.
We are residents who are cught up in the PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY structure.
I will be in touch again, on behalf of our residents, and residents all across Balbriggan who are similarly affected.

My name is Eamonn Smith and I am the chairperson of a residents committee recently formed in Barons hall Balbriggan, representing
the concerns of residents affected by management companies
and campaigning for the abolition of the management company structure foisted upon us.

I speak to you as an affected homeowner, and representative of the comments and sentiments expressed by fellow residents in Barons hall.

Management companies in developments charge enormous fees for the maintenance of basic public services, which, elsewhere in Ireland, are funded from general taxation.

Fingal County Council, among other local authorities, has been very active in pushing management companies. These local authorities put the formation of management companies as a condition of giving planning permission.

This is a very clever, deceitful and downright dishonest way of privatising public services, services that the local authority should be responsible for maintaining, as in all previously built estates.

This means a new tax on homeowners in affected areas.

Local authorities explain this with the line
"the increase in housing density requires this".
I submit that this is totally false.

What IS clear is that with our rapidly expanding population and the property development therein, there is a massive increase in the number of residential units allowed per acre.

This now means that residents buying properties from these developments can expect to pay a direct AND an indirect tax.

New developers reap huge dividends from management companies.
In the past, the developer has always had to cover basic maintenance of their developments until the local authority takes charge. For the developer this could mean several years.
NOW, they can foist massive fees for basic maintenance onto residents, from whom they have already made massive profits.

Service charges themselves, or maintenance fees, usually cover the cost of general maintenance, building insurance, waste disposal, security.
The bulk of the service charge on residents is made up of two things;
1. Administrative fees
IE a management company charging a homeowner, for the very letters they send to the homeowner, detailing monies owed by the homeowner to the management company.

2. Paying the management company salaries.

While I appreciate that there needs to be legislation and proper regulation for property management with regard to apartments and their maintenance, insurance, etc, it is very important to remember that,
as service charges are set each year by management companies, it is impossible for buyers to determine how high their future maintenance costs will be.

A typical contract binds a potential buyer to pay the service charge that the management company
"In its sole discretion deems to be fair and reasonable payment in respect of the year then commencing".

I have numerous emails with me from residents in Barons Hall, stating that their fees have increased by anything up to 50% in the last year.

In our development, I can categorically state that residents feel they have been hoodwinked into having a management company.

Whatever about having a management company in place for apartments (and then not actually carrying out services),
where on earth are they allowed to sink their teeth into houses, where owners pay their own insurance and do not get any building maintenance or security.

With this management company in place, my fellow residents and I are enduring disgraceful graffiti not removed properly, rubbish strewn everywhere, abandoned cars simply left in residential parking areas, burned out cars, so called common areas, which , pictorial evidence will show are massive mounds of earth and rubble left unattended. Areas throughout the development have broken glass on the ground, where cars have been broken into. There appears to be no security in place. The glass in the resident car park behind my house has been on the ground since Jan 2004, that's two years. I myself made an attempt to clear some away.

In November, our management company presented a shambolic AGM, with no directors present, merely a Chairman and an accountant.
The was no structure to the meeting, no information handed out or presentations made, nothing whatsoever.
At this AGM, in one particular instance, the management company chairman undertook to investigate alternatives to each resident having their own wheelie bin, which the resident could leave out for collection when THEY chose.
A move to communal bins was suggested by the management company. This was unanimously rejected out of hand by residents who ventured their opinion,
as this would mean residents, in their annual invoice, basically being charged weekly, whether they put a bin out or not.
The management company chairman promised to research the matter further and get back to the residents. In act act of total deceit, the chairman forced through the introduction of the communal bin system, having consulted NOBODY from the residents. As chairperson of the Barons Hall group i can assure you that nobody was approached or consulted. The committee certainly was not. This serves as a total slap in the face to all residents, and underlining that residents are apparently tied into a contract over which they have no control, or opinion,
and the management has, it would seem, sole authority to do as they please and charge as they please.

On many occasions I have walked around Barons Hall and found many things amiss or broken, front doors to apartment complexes, which do not close,
broken intercom, broken buzzers, halls in total darkness,
houses with rubbish strewn all across their fronts and on paths and roads,
roads in absolutely desperate condition.
I personally fear for my children's safety on these roads with the speeds that cars are allowed drive through the development, as we have no yellow lines, speed ramps, 5mph speed limit signs etc. anywhere in Barons Hall.

Several times I put it directly to the management company chairman, who has simply said that this is not the case,they provide us good service,
and anyway we all signed up to this so it really doesn't matter what we think, we are tied into a management company through our contract.

This is absolutely disgraceful. The entire development is a disgrace and does not remotely suggest, to me anyway, that anybody is actually taking charge of maintenance.

I can categorically state that I personally have received NO service or maintenance whatsoever about my property, except perhaps for a little chipped bark outside my front door in 2003.
Why then am I expected to pay a bill for €492.00 for no services rendered.
Residents who have so far been in contact with the committee share these feelings.

Currently, NO legislation exists, and NO government department has ANY responsibility for the regulation of service charges and property management companies,
as these agreements are considered contractual. It does not seem to matter that no resident is made aware of this clause in their contract until long after they have signed it. That is certainly my own personal experience.

I thoroughly welcome initiatives such as this press conference, as residents nationwide are being duped out of millions of euros.

I call on all residents who share these views, to take action to protect their interests. From a personal standpoint, I would be very happy to establish links with similarly affected residents and their committees.

Our committee wishes to wholeheartedly praise the efforts of the residents of Tyrellstown Castlecurrah and Ongar, and the action group working on their behalf. Theirs is a similar tale,
a management company has ignored issues affecting these residents at every turn, and has provided these residents with no service that would justify the fees they demand.
I would call on all residents similarly affected, and their representative groups, to echo these sentiments, and follow the lead of the Tyrellstown campaign.

Our Barons Hall AGM took place in November. We demanded action from our management company. We were asked by them to give them a chance to deliver.
Today is the first of MARCH! Nothing has happened to make residents feel they are any better off.
The managemant company has simply reissued their invoices to us, charging in some cases up to €1400.00. They quickly followed this up with a reminder letter.
Yet, any correspondence or phone calls or emails to the management company are ignored, I am told by other residents, as well as experiencing it personally.
Residents are reluctant to pay a fee having received services that in no way justify the fee. How can they be asked to hand over money for nothing.
Lets not forget, taxpaying residents have ALREADY paid for a service, which the local authority should be providing, as is the case elsewhere.

In closing, I call for, and welcome the introduction of,
a Nationwide action group, to stand up to the bullying intimidatory nature of management companies and the extortionate demands meted out to us by them.

Thank you.
Eamonn Smith
Chairperson
Barons Hall Residents Committee

whippet

While I have no experience or knowledge of your Barron Hall situation I would urge you not to be too Gungho on a 'National Group' opposed to Management companies.

Personally I am living in a managed estate and am only delighted to pay the fees. I feel I get great value for money and would not like to see my estate being maintained by fingal co. co.

I have personally made my feelings known to Joe Higgans as I feel that the silent majority who are happy to pay the fees are being over looked by an agressive and active minority. And some of his socialist propaganda fell into my letter box, which I did not agree with and purported to be representing me.

Remember where you get your mandate from, only from the people who support your cause and who chose not to honour the contracts that you signed.

If you have a problem with your management company do not assume that every one does with their company. From personal experience I get timely responses to any of my queries.

eamo73

im genuinely pleased for you.
i also know for a fact from researching in my valuable spare time that you are in a tiny minority. i hope the situation continues for you and good luck.
i speak for the majority being ripped off and i have no political bias whatsoever i represent myself and my residents

whippet

eamo73 wrote:

im genuinely pleased for you.
i also know for a fact from researching in my valuable spare time that you are in a tiny minority. i hope the situation continues for you and good luck.
i speak for the majority being ripped off and i have no political bias whatsoever i represent myself and my residents

?? i don't get what you are saying.

a) you can not know if i am in a minority or majority, you don't even know where i live or which management company i am a part of

b) how can you hope the situation continues for me when you are openly trying to make sure it does not.

remember when you picked your house/apt you did so knowingly that it was part of a managed estate, you signed contracts to that effec, i would assume you did't have a gun to your head when you signed it.

Liam Lough

I think their fierce brilliant altogether. I pay 1500 euros willingly each year to our Management Company and for that I get a mighty service. The lobby in the Apartment Block is always clean and they even mow the lawns twicew yearly. The gates are automated but never working - sure so what - its not their fault, the poor craturs - they've enough on their plate riding all the other property owners bareback - the use of a saddle is purely arbitary. Anyways, stop complaining and pick up the ood paper and dog poo from around the common areas and pay your service charges willingly etc.

Signed: Horrid daesent christian son of Ireland.

journo

Have you any management company horror stories from around the country? If so PM me please.

whippet

can we PM you with good stories about the property managment companies that we deal with or are you only interested in the sensationalist headlines that you hear about. Good balanced journalism at its best, you must be aspiring to be a Rep top hack in all it's glory.

Morpheus

can we PM you with good stories about the property managment companies that we deal with or are you only interested in the sensationalist headlines that you hear about. Good balanced journalism at its best, you must be aspiring to be a Rep top hack in all it's glory.

No offence, but were you dropped on your head as a child??

Repeatedly???

you actually support this legalised form of double taxation?

you support the fact that although you pay for your local authority TO DO NOTHING!!!! you are also willing to bend over,

grab some KY

and drop your pants so some gang of profiteers, pirates and highwaymen can shaft you to their hearts content??

What is the world coming to..... :rolleyes:

Its a veritable fact that Management Companies (just like balbriggan town commissioners that pushed all this sh*te development and "LACK OF" planning through, which destroyed my hometown and let all these property moguls free reign) can all be traced back to a certain famous family line in Transylvania.

I reckon the locals should all band together at midnight

(after a few scoops in the harvest)

and march on the town hall with flaming brands and pitchforks and have ourselves a good lynching,

followed by a communal management company bonfire (fuelled by the various management companies of balbriggan whom we will forcibly invite to attend),

and later on when the blood lust has died down,

we can huddle closer to the bubble and spit of their body fat and regail "the newcomers" with stories about the quaint village of balbriggan that used to be,

the bower,

the martello,

the viaduct,

the harbour,

sherwoods forest, etc

and the good times long long ago when Dublin was a city far far away..........

Jip

eamo73 wrote:

Our committee wishes to wholeheartedly praise the efforts of the residents of Tyrellstown Castlecurrah and Ongar, and the action group working on their behalf. Theirs is a similar tale,a management company has ignored issues affecting these residents at every turn, and has provided these residents with no service that would justify the fees they demand.
I would call on all residents similarly affected, and their representative groups, to echo these sentiments, and follow the lead of the Tyrellstown campaign.

It's a bit disingenuous to praise the efforts of the "residents" of Tyrrelstown as the action group there does not seem to have widespread support from what I can see on their website. Many seem to be happy with the service they get and dare I say it, maybe even resent the action group ? Their fees seem alot less than those in Balbriggan too.

Also, from what I've read the residents of Casltecurragh didn't get any service as the management company had no money to do anything. Ok, they probably weren't getting a great service in the first place but it does show what can happen if people just stop paying their fess, Fingal refused to take over and things went downhill from there.

Paulw

Is the problem the management agent, or is it the fact that people have to pay management fees?

The management agent isn't necessary. Any management company can work without needing a management agent. Then the people themselves can take direct control over any/all work that needs to be done. That "should" reduce the management fee.

I don't like paying the management fee. But, I am personally doing all I can to make sure the money is spent correctly. I am on the resident's association committee, and I am also a director on the management company board. Now before anyone gets any ideas, no, the director gets no money for this work.

I do think that the govt needs to bring in tight laws to control management agents and make sure that they work in the interests of residents. I also think that the councils need to be more active, and take over control of areas as quickly as possible.

Sponge Bob

Very good point paulw, lots of fools buy into a management company and blame "THEM" when they should be blaming themselves as an equal member.

Once you have a well functioning management company its implicit that you have good participation from members/residents From that you can agree to do things yourselves like a cleaning rota , thats why you can dispense with the agent in those cases .

Many agents are out of control because all the day to day management company business is left to 2 or 3 individuals with no help who face a pack of negative moaners once a year.

Legislation is no cure for ignorance .

BendiBus

I'm glad to have read the 2 preceding posts. I was about to post on a similar point and point out that property owners ARE the management company.

In my apartment development we employ the services of a small managing agent (little more than a one man operation) and have done for several years after a period misery with KPM & the developers! The management fee is relatively small and the agent is very accessible & responsive.

But the most important thing is a properly organised mamagement company to ensure everything is done correctly.

At our last AGM, there were 6 people in attendence (including the 3 directors!) I assume this happens everywhere. Then people have the cheek to complain about the management company when they can't even give up a couple of hours once a year to make their voices heard.

Also, in the notification of the AGM I also recieved a set of accounts for the year and every penny was accounted for. And I couldn't complain about where the expenditure was going.

A well run management company makes apartment dwelling a dream as things get done and I don't need to get concerned with day-to-day matters. I've always hated gardening so having a landscaper in on a regular basis is worth the management fee all by itself

gazzer

Also, from what I've read the residents of Casltecurragh didn't get any service as the management company had no money to do anything. Ok, they probably weren't getting a great service in the first place but it does show what can happen if people just stop paying their fess, Fingal refused to take over and things went downhill from there.

Just to follow on from the above comment (and as a resident of Castlecurragh) Fingal are now taking over all the common areas for grass cutting, maintenance etc...

I paid managment fees for 4 years and nothing ever got done.. Getting in touch with the managment company was impossible. Graffatti was everywhere in the estate, as was rubbish. People stopped paying cos they were not getting a service.

The residents group had been told by Fingal that anybody in a house would not have to pay management fees anymore(only those living in aparements) however there is still arguments over liability insurance... I have a 3 bedroom house in CC and at the moment I am expected to pay 300 euro, the bulk of this is admin fees, the rest is for public liability insurance..

Castlecurragh is not a gated community.. the houses in the estate are like any house you would find in any other estate in Dublin. There is a main rod running right through the estate. There is an estate not 10 feet from my door and that estate gets grass cut etc so why not us. Why should we have to pay management fees?? I can understand having to pay some type of management company where you live in an apartment with a common area where lifts etc need to be serviced... but not when you have your own door and front and back garden.