National Directory Database - optout

parsi

(please move if necessary)

Anyone who expressed a preference to optout from direct marketing calls after Comreg had a glossy launch of their new optout procedure should note that during the period July-September this system wasn't working - a fact not announced publicly.

I was told this in an email closing a complaint against Smart for ringing me. Even though I had recorded my preference there were issues with the National Directory Database and this was Smarts loophole. The following is an extract from the email from the Data Protection office:

"Between
the months of July and September there were problems recording preferences
on the National Directory Database due to Technical problems. It has not
been established whether the problem occured with BT or the NDD itself."

So folks - go check it !

damien

Care to forward the email to: info@irelandoffline.org

I take it you were/are a BT customer?

parsi

Will do. I'm actually with UTV but BT do their telephony I believe..

dahamsta

Is there a procedure for doing this with BT? I haven't done it myself yet because I wasn't sure about the status.

adam

parsi

FWIW its on the online account page for UTV. BT UK have a privacy service as well www.bt.com/privacy is the link so maybe something there ?

dahamsta

BT UK isn't substantively connected to BT Ireland. I haven't seen anything in their CP either.

adam

parsi

you could always ring your solicitor friends in BT for advice seeing as they are making it so bloody hard to optout ;-) or you could contact comreg or the data protection office who will provide youwith whatever excuse BT provide....

kmurph

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you go about getting added to the optout database.

We're constantly getting phone calls here at home from direct marketing companies.

We're with Eircom.

Thanks

dahamsta

It's a bit like Eircom's discount scheme. If no-one knows about it, or how to do it...

Mr_Man

You have to contact whoever you have your line with. If it is Eircom you ring them up (1901), ask for sales, and tell them you want to be added to the NDD database. They should be able to do it on the spot for you.

You then will have to wait four weeks for it too take effect and then if any of them ring you up tell them they shouldn't be contacting you and that if they persist you will report them to the data protection comissioner. That is usually enough to cut the conversation short.

HTH

M.

parsi

I had to do it for the mother-in-law last Saturday. rang 1901 and dragged my way through the IVR service and eventually got an answering machine saying call back during office hours (ecl. lunch)...So I then rang back and selected 1 for Sales kept answering "elephant" to all the questions and was quickly chucked to an eircom biddy who relucatantly did the deed....

ai ing

I like the way UTV have it set up. Tick a box in your online account and thats it. Seems much easier than the others.

kaizersoze

ai ing wrote:

I like the way UTV have it set up. Tick a box in your online account and thats it. Seems much easier than the others.

BT have the same setup.

Tom Young

All fixed and WLR - Wholesale Line Rental providers have to give this capability. In line with Regulation 13 & 14 of the S.I. 535 of 2003.

There is a technical issue listings at the moment that the DPC are dealing with.

dahamsta

Right, I finally got around to this with BT today. I got empty air while I was trying to describe it, had to give a bit more detail, and a "please hold" immediately afterwards. When she came back she didn't seem entirely sure whether you needed to be added or removed from the NDD to stop getting the junk (neither did I, I was just working off a post above), but went away to clarify again, and confirmed that it had been done. When I asked when it would take effect, she said immediately, which I honestly doubt. I also noticed that she didn't take my number or ask my name, I can only assume she picked those details up through their system.

Very obviously not her fault, very obviously another example of the lack of even the most basic training in BT Ireland. So it seems nothing's changed still. All that being said: If you're the BTI chick that talked to a fella with a Cork accident about the NDD at 15:56 today, you have a lovely voice, especially when you say "you're welcome".

adam

dahamsta

Oh hang on, I have another rant. I got a call last week with the usual "can I speak to to the Eircom account holder garbage". So I decided to have a go this time, and asked who it was. Tele2. I'd like to be removed from your database please. No problem sir. When will that take effect? Immediately sir. Excellent, thinks I.

Earlier this week, the phone rings. Can I speak to the Eircom account holder please? Who's speaking? Joanne (or somesuch) from Tele2. Face goes red. Brusque, but not shouting: You need to remove me from your database right now, as promised last week, because you're now breaking the la... She hung up. She /actually/ hung up on me, the ignorant bitch.

I was f*cking livid. Onto the web like a man possessed to file through the hundred thousand Tele2 domains to find the one for Ireland. Find a number, dial, and it was answered! I want to speak with your Data Protection Office please. What's it in connection with sir?

Well, it's in connection with the fact that you're breaking the law by phoning me after committing not to, and the fact that one of your sales people hung up on me just a minute ago. Cue bullsh*t rigmarole about when and where and who, and she'll be disciplined (my arse she will, given a medal more like), and you're removed from the database now.

So, who's going to run the book on them calling me back next week?

adam /off out for a rape whistle

damien

*Rings Adam from blocked number pretending to be Tele2*

dahamsta

Sure I'd catch your high-pitched girly voice anytime Damo!

Duiske

I opened an Eircom account about a month ago, and while signing up chose not to receive any marketing material from Eircom or their "carefully chosen partners". Last week recieved a letter from Eircom asking if I had chosen this option in error, and giving me a number I could call to rectify this error.

kaizersoze

Do all companies have to go through this national database to source the phone numbers for direct marketing purposes?
Whats to stop them just opening the phonebook and dialing people?

dahamsta

kaizersoze wrote:

Do all companies have to go through this national database to source the phone numbers for direct marketing purposes?

They should, but I'm not sure it's mandatory. You'll also get fly-by-nights setting up and ignoring it completely.

Whats to stop them just opening the phonebook and dialing people?

Nothing, and they can and do use autodialers.

adam

parsi

Just as a follow up to this:

At the weekend I recived another call from a telephonic spammer who refused to give me contact details so I filed a complaint again. DatProtection being their usual helpful self responded with;

" I wrote to you on the 21 October asking you get to your preference recorded
with whoever provides your line rental again (the first time you did it
being 27 August 2005). "

to which I responded with a quote from the self-same email:

"It has not

been established whether the problem occured with BT or the NDD itself.

However they do have the number of people who listed their preference and

the backlog of preferences have been recorded this week. Our office cannot

intervene in this matter as the marketers were unaware of the preference of

the individuals they contacted.

As the preferences on the NDD were only recorded this week allow 28 days to

pass and if you receive any more direct marketing calls, dont hesitate to

make a complaint with our office."

So once again it appears the this optout policy is a sop and DtaProtection have absolutely no interest in pursuing it.

How many times are people supposed to register their preferences ? Are we supposed to re-register despite being told that we don't need to ? Will every complaint end up with an excuse and then another 28 day waiting period ?

The mind boggles.

parsi

I rang the Data Protection office about this and the salient points were:

- they thought that the backlog that was cleared included those people who had already registered but whose preferences were recorded,

- they have no intention of advertising to people that they may need to re-register their optout desire,

- none of the providers did wrong,

- I have to contact my provider even though they told me I was opted-out,

- none of the spamming shysters are doing wrong,

- they evenually agreed to contact my provider and get me opted out - so thats another 28 days from now then - no, its annother 28 days from whenever we get around to contacting them !,

- I mentioned that the whole thing is skewed towards the spamming shysters and that the consumer - of whom they claim to be the champion - is left hanging not knowing if this time their preferences have been registered. I received the reply along the lines of " its alright - you just register your preferences on the NDD" to which I replied - thats what I've been trying to do since July and now you say it wont happen until January !

At this stage I decided to bring the call to an end with the assurance that he would send me a mail saying that they would contact my provider. I duly received this email so come 2006 I will be able to avail of spamming shyster-free telephony that was advertised back in late July....

damien

Email your story to todaypk@rte.ie asap. They may be doing a story on this in the morning.

jmcc

Ken Shabby wrote:

Oh hang on, I have another rant. I got a call last week with the usual "can I speak to to the Eircom account holder garbage". So I decided to have a go this time, and asked who it was. Tele2. I'd like to be removed from your database please. No problem sir. When will that take effect? Immediately sir. Excellent, thinks I.

Are they the fscks using some Third World call center to pester people? They rang me twice. Same **** - told them I wasn't interested. Got the same scripted response. My reply was somewhat unexpected as it involved a National Technical Means response to pest control. :>

Regards...jmcc

cgarvey

Can businesses opt out? Or, like the spamming pretend-laws, just it just apply to residential users?

I now get ~4 calls a week (most go to voicemail) from call companies. If they're polite/friendly/sexy sounding I end the call with "I alredy use VoIP and am happy with my rates, thank you, bye". If not, I ask for their name and number. I've yet to get them. I used to get some interesting excuses ("Oh, I'm calling from a number just outside Dublin, so you won't be able to call me" was, probably, the best one).

.cg

redman

I had a problem that goes through a loop hole even though I am listed on the no contact with Eircom and ex directory. Providers are using a third party firm who are "randomly" phoning numbers in set ranges. The phone rings and is quiet initially, the technology detects the fact you have lifted the receiver and puts the call through to the call centre company. They don't know who they have rung until you give them your details. The only way apparently to bypass this is to write a letter to each firm that rings you . I have been trying to trace directly the third party firm to no avail and complaints have been submitted to comreg.

But still getting calls....just hang up if hear the initial quiet

Mr_Man

Having signed up to the NDD I got an interesting variation from Eircom last week. The phone rang, I answered and the person on the other end said it was a customer care call from Eircom (a novel concept I know).

She then went on to try and ask me who I had my calls with, I asked her what this had to do with customer care, and pointed out that I had registered on the NDD. She then again tried to claim it was a Customer Care call and not a sales call. However when I asked her if she was trying to sell me an Eircom calls package she hung up.

If I thought it would go anywhere I'd report it but given the completly useless nature of regulation in Ireland it's not worth the hassle.

M.

Solair

This is how I'd like to see marketing calls handled.

When a marketing call comes through "MARKETING" is displayed on your caller ID or some sort of marketing flag is sent through.

It should be illegal to block your number when making marketing calls as it makes tracking down the company very difficult.

If you choose to opt out of marketing calls, the phone network should simply block all calls tagged "marketing".

Sponge Bob

Mr_Man wrote:

Having signed up to the NDD I got an interesting variation from Eircom last week. The phone rang, I answered and the person on the other end said it was a customer care call from Eircom (a novel concept I know).

They send out a generic 1800 number as the caller ID , geta name next time and ask them to send the forms in writing.

Then you can really complain properly . As I am ex directory I will have a field day if they ring me ..

JohnC.

cgarvey wrote:

"Oh, I'm calling from a number just outside Dublin, so you won't be able to call me" was, probably, the best one.

That's amazing! Do they call from some reverse black hole just outside Dublin where calls are unable to get in? Damn, they will trot out any old codswallop.