ITV FTA from Nov 1st

watty

Chorus and NTL are being rationalised as one operation by new owner.

NTL does or did operate a few MMDS areas and Chorus does operate Cable areas as well as MMDS.

I don't think you can differentiate anymore between Chorus and NTL, but between:
Analog cable with no frills,
Digital Cable with BB and phone options
Analog MMDS (11 ch approx)
Digital MMDS (55 ch?, up to 120 ch when Analog MMDS turned off which could be any time they choose, unlike Analog regular TV).

Analog only Cable and Analog only MMDS is doomed. But Digital Cable has some future, with BB offering.

In theory Digital MMDs is viable, except the maintenence cost is high and system has been poorly installed leading to bad reputation of "freeze ups". It could have been marketed with Wireless phone and Wireless BB, but Chorus messed up on rollout and lost Wireless Phone licence. They also had serious supply problems and financing problems with the "Powernet" wireless BB and at this stage may pull plug on it.


The problems of Chorus and NTL was too little investment too late. If they had had the vision and finance they could have been rolling out phone, BB and digital on both Wireless and Cable _LONG_ before Sky went Digital.

The new owner will have to run as fast as he can to stand still.

The original reason for "multichannel" in Ireland (Cable and MMDS) was _ONLY_ BBC & ITV. This is now not so true due to Setanta, Sky Sport and perhaps some things such as BigBrother & Sport on C4 & Five.

The original reason for Cable /MMDS existance shortly won't exist. Many folks like me have no interest in BigBrother or Sport, so why would they pay for subscription TV, often of poor technical delivery quality compared with Satellite.

watty

I head that NTL call centre to be closed and only Chorus call centre used...

There have been large ongoing "rationalisation" (job cuts) in NTL / Chorus accelerated since UGC (UCG?) took over.

watty

I really can't see remaining "deflector" operators getting another whip around to keep going next year..

Freddie59

watty wrote:

Chorus and NTL are being rationalised as one operation by new owner.

NTL does or did operate a few MMDS areas and Chorus does operate Cable areas as well as MMDS.

I don't think you can differentiate anymore between Chorus and NTL, but between:
Analog cable with no frills,
Digital Cable with BB and phone options
Analog MMDS (11 ch approx)
Digital MMDS (55 ch?, up to 120 ch when Analog MMDS turned off which could be any time they choose, unlike Analog regular TV).

Analog only Cable and Analog only MMDS is doomed. But Digital Cable has some future, with BB offering.

In theory Digital MMDs is viable, except the maintenence cost is high and system has been poorly installed leading to bad reputation of "freeze ups". It could have been marketed with Wireless phone and Wireless BB, but Chorus messed up on rollout and lost Wireless Phone licence. They also had serious supply problems and financing problems with the "Powernet" wireless BB and at this stage may pull plug on it.


The problems of Chorus and NTL was too little investment too late. If they had had the vision and finance they could have been rolling out phone, BB and digital on both Wireless and Cable _LONG_ before Sky went Digital.

The new owner will have to run as fast as he can to stand still.

The original reason for "multichannel" in Ireland (Cable and MMDS) was _ONLY_ BBC & ITV. This is now not so true due to Setanta, Sky Sport and perhaps some things such as BigBrother & Sport on C4 & Five.

The original reason for Cable /MMDS existance shortly won't exist. Many folks like me have no interest in BigBrother or Sport, so why would they pay for subscription TV, often of poor technical delivery quality compared with Satellite.

Depends on your age and house occupation Watty! I have four teens, am quite partial myself to channels beyond BBC/ITV (which I also like) such as Sky One, Discovery, E4, etc. I have base NTL analogue/Digital pack for €30 and 3 Meg BB for €45. I couldn't even consider a FTA system. If I did I'd then have to subscribe to Sky and would be back to square one! I'm very happy with what I have.:)

bigpaddy2004

Bond-007 wrote:

It would be no harm if the ground opened and swallowed up Chorus.

That's an awful awful thing to say. You would like the ground to open up and swallow up a large irish company employing irish men and women with husbands and wifes, children, mortgages, etc...

A shrrr why not let ALL our money go cross the water, we'll get some more anyway as public artists AKA (THE DOLE.)

bk

Tony wrote:

Nonsense, NTL is suffering as it is and this will hasten loss of custom.

Yes, now that it has some 350,000 customers, 110,000 Digital and some 30,000 BB with the BB and digital customer numbers growing at a very high rate.

And when Chorus and NTL merge there will be over 550,000 customers, making them the largest pay tv operator in Ireland and almost doubling Sky's numbers.

Also NTL:Ireland has a 0.7% churn rate which is one of the lowest in the industry across Europe. (NTL:UK suffers from 16.8% and Sky:UK from about 15%).

So yes, NTL:Ireland is doing so badly :rolleyes:

However they will have to fight to keep their position with the emergence of new platforms such as DTT, Freesat and IPTV. In particular the Chorus network is in a pretty week.
NTL will need to offer many value added services, such as PVR, VoD, cheaper digital prices, BB and phone, in order to keep its position.

Dr. Nick

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

A shrrr why not let ALL our money go cross the water

...give the country back to the Queen and apologise for it's condition

bigpaddy2004

...give them the remaining counties why not. Lets just throw our hat at it:mad:

PacMan

Slightly going off topic here lads !!!
Its great news that ITV-1/2 are going fta. I have a Sky Digital sub, and have NO intention of giving it up. I also have FTA satellite recievers in different rooms in the house for the BBC's and Sky news etc. Having the ITV stations will be a welcome bonus, even though TV-3 shows most of its programming already. the more channels thats FTA, the better. !! And to add my rant ... I have had Chorus in the past before I got Sky. Its a totally crap service. picture is dreadful and the C/S people at Chorus are untrained and unproffesional. dreadful company. End of PacMans rant.

djpaul

BBC FTA, ITV FTA, Who are we going after next lads?? Channel 4, 5!:)

What other channels would you like to see FTA?

parasite

rte 1 + 2 :rolleyes:

Tony

Freddie59 wrote:

It's a pity that some people are wishing on the demise of NTL/Chorus. Can you only imagine what it would be like if the field was wide open for Sky?

Be careful what you wish for - you might just get it.:rolleyes:

I would not wish for the demise of NTL as I think the more players in the market the better it is for customers, it would be a disaster if Sky became the major Tv player. Having said that NTl and the other cable co's have had it cosy for way too long, good to see nerw operators like magnet making some inroads.

bigpaddy2004

Agreed, the more operators the better. Can you just imagine what would happen if sky were the only provider in Ireland? I can just bet that the subscription rate would rocket.

Tony

bk wrote:

However they will have to fight to keep their position with the emergence of new platforms such as DTT, Freesat and IPTV. In particular the Chorus network is in a pretty week.
NTL will need to offer many value added services, such as PVR, VoD, cheaper digital prices, BB and phone, in order to keep its position.

I agree I use NTL broadband myself and with setanta I think this is a major selling point for them. Having said that over half the calls I get relate to people wanting to cancel NTL, not because of their offering but because of poor customer service. They also like the idea of no monthly fee which is what FTA delivers.

watty

FTA satellite is a threat to Sky's base too.

Though Germany and Turkey with Large FTA selection Pay TV exists too.

watty

Freddie59 wrote:

Depends on your age and house occupation Watty! I have four teens, am quite partial myself to channels beyond BBC/ITV (which I also like) such as Sky One, Discovery, E4, etc. I have base NTL analogue/Digital pack for €30 and 3 Meg BB for €45. I couldn't even consider a FTA system. If I did I'd then have to subscribe to Sky and would be back to square one! I'm very happy with what I have.:)

It isn't either / or

I currently have Knowledge Pick for my youngest and 3 other FTA systems.

I can turn Sky off at 1mth notice and get connected within 5min again. Done so various times since Sept 2000.

But we get FTA from 20 satellites and choice of 4 receivers for FTA channels from 28.2E / Sky.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

It isn't either / or

I currently have Knowledge Pick for my youngest and 3 other FTA systems.

I can turn Sky off at 1mth notice and get connected within 5min again. Done so various times since Sept 2000.

But we get FTA from 20 satellites and choice of 4 receivers for FTA channels from 28.2E / Sky.

Yep - I see where you're coming from, but I would class myself as a fairly average consumer and don't want that kind of hassle over €6 a week.:)

Dr. Nick

i ALMOST went with chorus when i moved away from the East coast two years ago, but two calls to their sales team left me in a state of shock. Made me wonder was I REALLY a potential customer.
So for ITV (especially) and C4 that my wife craves for, I got a UK receiver and card from ebay, never looked back
Now it'll be even easier, for those rare moments that I want to see C4 and wifey wants ITV (last Wed. 10pm, Lost vs. some ITV drama), we have a solution.

Freddie59

Tony wrote:

I would not wish for the demise of NTL as I think the more players in the market the better it is for customers, it would be a disaster if Sky became the major Tv player. Having said that NTl and the other cable co's have had it cosy for way too long, good to see nerw operators like magnet making some inroads.

Agreed - but I wouldn't exactly call it cosy. Both NTL and Chorus nearly went to the wall in recent years (NTL seemed to come out OK but not too sure about Chorus) and a crucial thing to remember here is that BOTH of these cablecos only have one wholesale supplier - Sky.

And there's the rub. One can only hazard a guess at the rates charged there. It's not like they can go elsewhere! Yep - Sky is the premier platform, but it's expensive (especially out of warranty!) but I personally think that, while NTL and Chorus don't have the interactive thingy, they still represent good value (I can only comment on NTL really) for the money charged - I can get 15 analogue channels and some 100 digital channels for roughly the price of 20 fags a week.:)

I suppose it's down to personal taste and there are some interesting times ahead.

Tony

Freddie59 wrote:

Agreed - but I wouldn't exactly call it cosy.

are u kidding? exclusive franchise areas ?

bigpaddy2004

Freddie59 are yo joking? Chorus will never go to ground...the goverment will always sub them out if they are in trouble.

Our man in Havana

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

Freddie59 are yo joking? Chorus will never go to ground...the goverment will always sub them out if they are in trouble.

Chorus is in private hands so the Govt will never bail them out. With Itv becoming FTV there is now no reason for ppl to keep them.

L1011

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

Freddie59 are yo joking? Chorus will never go to ground...the goverment will always sub them out if they are in trouble.

Chorus, the ultimately un-socialist (remember, we have a pretendo-socialist government right now, thank you Che Bertie....) conglomerate of never-state owned firms?

The state wouldn't give a bollox if Liberty's Irish operations hit the wall. Not a chance in hell they'd help them, ever. NTL:Ireland, however....

Freddie59

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

Freddie59 are yo joking? Chorus will never go to ground...the goverment will always sub them out if they are in trouble.

Paddy - I think you're confusing them with someone else:) . AFAIK they were NEVER bailed out by the Government - they are a private company and have to stand or fall on their own income (unlike RTE who have been bailed out countless times - courtesy of me and you).

Freddie59

Tony wrote:

are u kidding? exclusive franchise areas ?

I think that went by the wall when Sky Digital started in 1998 Tony.:)

Tony

Freddie59 wrote:

I think that went by the wall when Sky Digital started in 1998 Tony.:)

Not true they kept (and still have) exclusive rights for cable in franchise areas. When sky digital started it did not have BBC or RTE so there was not a level playing field. Its only recently that new cable network operators have entered the market. NTL and Chorus had no real competition for years, to say otherwise is to ignore the facts accepted by everyone I know in the industry.

bk

Tony wrote:

Having said that over half the calls I get relate to people wanting to cancel NTL, not because of their offering but because of poor customer service.

Really? I'm not being argumentitive, I'm just curios, I've had NTL the last three years, but I've only had to call them in the last 9 months when getting BB from them. When I have called them, I have found them to be the best customer support staff I've ever had to deal with (compared to Chorus, Eircom, etc.).

No really, when I call I get straight through, no waiting, the cs staff seem to be knowledgeable, friendly and very professional. A nice touch I really liked was they sent an automated SMS to me the day before my BB was to be installed, to remind me, very cool.

I've heard many friends and colleagues complain about NTL CS, however when I ask, they all say it was over a year or two ago since they dealt with them. I wonder has NTL CS been greatly improved in the last year?

Unfortunately there are rumours that NTL's support centre will be closed when they merge with Chorus, shudder :mad: Chorus are the worst shower I've ever had the misfortune to deal with.

Tony wrote:

They also like the idea of no monthly fee which is what FTA delivers.

But it seems like an awful lot of effort to save just €20 - €30 per month. I mean you have both a satelitte and an aerial and switch between them, not a very comfortable viewing experience, my friend has this sort of setup and it is very annoying.

I suppose everybody has different needs.

bk

Tony wrote:

Not true they kept (and still have) exclusive rights for cable in franchise areas.

I believe there are no longer any exclusive franchise areas. However there is no overlap as it would be simply too expensive to lay cable in an area where a competitior is already present.

Capt'n Midnight

bk wrote:

I mean you have both a satelitte and an aerial and switch between them, not a very comfortable viewing experience, my friend has this sort of setup and it is very annoying.

I suppose everybody has different needs.

There is a code you can enter in the sky remote so when you press the SKY button the TV changes channel to the DigiBox.

Any one know it ?

When it's setup you press TV and 1-5 for the channels on the aerial and the SKY button and then press three more digits to choose the SKY channel.

Freddie59

bk wrote:

I believe there are no longer any exclusive franchise areas. However there is no overlap as it would be simply too expensive to lay cable in an area where a competitior is already present.

Correct.:)

watty

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

There is a code you can enter in the sky remote so when you press the SKY button the TV changes channel to the DigiBox.

Any one know it ?

When it's setup you press TV and 1-5 for the channels on the aerial and the SKY button and then press three more digits to choose the SKY channel.

If using SCART (preferred) then it is automatic if SCART on enabled in Setup.

Possible method for Digibox via RF only:
Otherwise press TV, hold select and green till two LED flashes on remote, and press channel number for RF channel. Or if "help" in TV mode slects SCART/AV in (does most TVs), press help instead of channel. Some TVs the SCART is selected with channel "0"

I don't know if this works for a channel number more than 9.

Again if SCART is used and this is best, then you should not need this.

It is in every Sky manual I have seen from last 5 years to last week model.

Tony

bk wrote:

I believe there are no longer any exclusive franchise areas. However there is no overlap as it would be simply too expensive to lay cable in an area where a competitior is already present.

wrong, even if it were financially feasible another cable operator cannot go into a franchise area already awarded.

Tom Dunne

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

There is a code you can enter in the sky remote so when you press the SKY button the TV changes channel to the DigiBox.

Any one know it ?

Feck it, I only did this a week or two ago, can't find the link. Google for Sky + remote + codes. That is how I got them for my Philips TV.

mjsmyth

From the NTL FAQ:

Can I transfer my account to a new address?
Yes, we can connect your new home, as long as it is located within either our cable or MMDS franchise area. You may be able to keep your existing account number, depending on the network and location you are moving to. If you are moving outside our franchise area and have pre-paid your bill past your moving date, we will be happy to arrange a cheque refund to your new address.

http://www.ntl.com/locales/ie/en/athome/analogue_cable_tv.html

So it would seem that there are indeed franchise areas still in operation in Ireland.

MJ

byte

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

There is a code you can enter in the sky remote so when you press the SKY button the TV changes channel to the DigiBox.

Any one know it ?

Press TV
Then Select+Green (hold until LED blinks twice)
Press the number of the channel that Sky is on
Then press Select to save settings.

Now anytime you press Sky button, the TV will automatically go to the designated channel.

HTH

watty

Thats what I said too.. so it must be right

Our man in Havana

byte wrote:

Press TV
Then Select+Green (hold until LED blinks twice)
Press the number of the channel that Sky is on
Then press Select to save settings.

Now anytime you press Sky button, the TV will automatically go to the designated channel.

HTH

What a handy thing!

Tony

Guys bear in mind you will not get the same picture quality using RF rather than a scart socket.

Capt'n Midnight

byte wrote:

Press TV
Then Select+Green (hold until LED blinks twice)
Press the number of the channel that Sky is on
Then press Select to save settings.

Now anytime you press Sky button, the TV will automatically go to the designated channel.

HTH

Thanks

Only thing to remember is to cover the front of the remote when you don't want the channel to change !

byte

The technique is handy for sets that didn't have auto scart switchover, so usually the process means pressign HELP instead of a number (Help, or sometimes Select) is usually the AV button on the Sky remote (this tip is only handy if you've only one AV channel, otherwise, everytime you press Sky button, you'll get moved to AV2, etc).

As Tony rightfully says, Scart is far superior, though for RF2 connection to TV2, it's handy!

EDIT: Oops, didn't realise Watty had already said how to do it! Ah well

watty

I chatter so much no one listens to the gems of knowledge..

Never mind.

parsi

DMC wrote:

Also, I'll add....

Its part of the Irish psyche to get more telly. Ever since our fathers and grandfathers ventured up on chimneys with Band I and III aerials pointing North for the BBC and UTV and Telly Welly Wales in the 1950's, we've always seeked out more telly.

I'm proud to continue with that tradition.

I suppose that explains why the Easter Rising began - to get more channels... ;-)

barrera

Would have no problem in seeing Chorus suffer from this.

A case history of Chorus and Sky.

Moved house earlier this year - wanted to end Chorus (which I only had because of ITV and C4). They charge me my full annual subscription when I phone up to pay the first couple of months of it to see out my time in the house.

They say they'll refund the rest in a few weeks (still no sign). THEN, they ask me for the analogue box which I got Sky Sports through with them up to about 2000 or 2001.

I say I don't have it, and I presumed they took it from me when I disconnected. Either way, I say, as they had no interest in it for at least four years, my duty of care to it is lapsed. They say that will be €200 please! I say see you in small claims court.

Sky - I'm moving house, can I move my Sky package. Certainly sir, that will be €60. When do you want it moved? Sorry for the late notice, but can you do it next week? How does next Saturday suit sir? Great! Sir, just bring your digibox and remote with you when moving.

Following Saturday, job done.

People are only dying to quit the useless thieves at Chorus.

Our man in Havana

barrera wrote:

People are only dying to quit the useless thieves at Chorus.

Hear Hear!

Pal

NTL offered me €190 of free TV if I would reconnect.
6 months movies and sports or somewhat and free points in the bedrooms.

they are getting quite generous now but it won't happen.

As things stand, I can get
free ITV , free BBC, free ch4 and 5 on a FTV card. free RTE/TV3 on an aerial.
so why pay NTL ?

People will wise up soon enough.

OK setanta is a bonus but their games all tend to be on hotbird anyway.

bigpaddy2004

Maybe so, but then you may see the broadcaters wise up to this also if everyone is getting free tv.

byte

Personally, if I lived in an area of Dublin or Galway that had NTL Broadband, I'd choose NTL over Sky, but that's just coz of the broadband package

Pal, that was quite an offer to get from NTL!

Round Cable

I got the same 'voucher' Pal, amazing that during 20 years of custom, you get the best offer when you dump them. :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

and MMDS areas also got the same voucher but fewer channels.

L1011

barrera wrote:

They say they'll refund the rest in a few weeks (still no sign). THEN, they ask me for the analogue box which I got Sky Sports through with them up to about 2000 or 2001.

I have two of the buggers in my attic and I've no idea where they came from - I didn't get really, really drunk in your house in 2001 by any chance?