Liam Lawlor killed in moscow car crash

Ray777

Regardless of whether he was/wasn't a public figure when he died, I think it's highly insensitive for the Sindo to publish that story.

dahamsta

black_jack wrote:

You bascially want me to offer faux sympathy, platitutes and sympathy, for someone who didn't give a damn about me, but abused the money I put in his hand?

That's the kind of argument you'd expect from the man himself. Asking someone not to be rude isn't the same as asking them to be polite. It's asking them not to be rude, period.

I would imagine the point people are trying to make is that while many of us would like to comment on Lawlor's behaviour, this is not the time. Not for Lawlor's sake, but for his family's.

Have a little respect for them, even if you have no respect for him.

adam

MrJoeSoap

Ray777 wrote:

Regardless of whether he was/wasn't a public figure when he died, I think it's highly insensitive for the Sindo to publish that story.

Well I'm going to go ahead and be "insensitive" so. The story has just come online.

CIARAN BYRNE,

JODY CORCORAN and

NICK PATON-WALSH

in MOSCOW

LIAM LAWLOR, the controversial former Fianna Fail politician, was killed yesterday in a high-speed crash in Moscow in the company of a teenage girl described by police as "likely to be a prostitute", the Sunday Independent can reveal.

The 61-year-old was travelling from a red-light district towards Moscow with a Ukrainian girl when his hired Mercedes spun out of control at 1am Moscow time.

A spokesman for the Moscow police department told the Sunday Independent that no other vehicle was involved and that it appeared excessive speed was the main factor in the crash.

The vehicle, driven by a chauffeur, struck a concrete bollard on the Leningradskoye highway in the suburb of Khimki, which Moscow police said was a well-known pick-up point for prostitutes.

Mr Lawlor, always a colourful character and regularly described as a "likeable rogue", was in the passenger seat when the collision occurred.

He and his chauffeur, named as a Mr Sulemann, were killed instantly, while the girl, who was in the back seat of the car, escaped with minor injuries.

Moscow police yesterday said: "The woman had no passport and said she was not a close friend of the Irish man. She is a girl and it seems they met on the street and it is therefore likely she was a prostitute."

That the former TD, from Lucan, Dublin, died in the company of a woman likely to be a prostitute will only serve to add to the sense of danger and controversy which always accompanied his entwined political and business careers.

News of his death caused deep shock in political and business circles throughout Ireland when it emerged at around noon yesterday.At Fianna Fail's Ard Fheis in Killarney, the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern said he was "shocked" to learn of the untimely death and extended his heartfelt sympathy to Mr Lawlor's wife Hazel, his children, family and friends.

The Taoiseach said: "Liam was an engaging, witty and a larger-than-life character. He

ANALYSIS

was also a man with a keen intellect and strong views that he was never afraid to articulate trenchantly. Outside the rough and tumble of political activity, he was extremely popular with his parliamentary colleagues across thepolitical boards."

There was no immediate comment from Mr Lawlor's old adversary, Feargus Flood.

But the Mahon tribunal, of which Mr Justice Flood is a former chairman, is now deprived of one of its most crucial witnesses. Indeed, his death may hasten the end of the tribunal, something which Mr Lawlor's friends were last night wistfully speculating would have amused the former politician.

In 1999 and 2001, Mr Lawlor served two separate one-week terms of three-month sentences for contempt of court arising out of his dealings with the tribunal. In 2002, he served a month for failure to comply with a tribunal and respond to its requests to disclose documents and information.

Khimki, from where Mr Lawlor was travelling, is a well-known haunt of prostitutes. Mr Lawlor died on the Leningradskoye highway, which has recently seen mass demonstrations by local residents, students and pensioners to banish the prostitutes who traditionally gather along it at night.

A police spokesman in Moscow told the Sunday Independent last night: "There was no luggage in the car so it is not the case that the car was coming from the airport. It was coming form the area of Khimki which is known as an area where businessmen pick up women."

Russia has become a mecca for Irish business figures who have flocked to the former Soviet state to develop multi-million euro property and business ventures.

Mr Lawlor himself was engaged in various business activities in Prague, in the Czech Republic, and was involved in plans to develop a shopping complex in the city.

Doing business in Russia can be difficult for outsiders who rely on a network of contacts to make introductions and it is likely that Lawlor had already made contacts there.

The death of Mr Lawlor, who celebrated his 61st birthday last Wednesday, stunned the world of Irish politics last night and brings to a tragic end the life a man scarred by scandal and disgrace.

The former TD's three sons, Niall, Shane and Gerald, were on their way home from the United States last night to join Liam Lawlor's wife Hazel and daughter Ciara at the family home in Lucan, west Dublin.

In a statement last night, the Lawlor family said they were "overwhelmed" by the kind sympathy they have received from home and abroad.

Friends and neighbours in Lucan expressed disbelief that the former TD had died in Russia in such bizarre circumstances.

Police in Moscow believe Lawlor's car had travelled to the Moscow suburb of Khimki and was returning to the centre of the Russian capital when the crash happened.

Mr Lawlor was sitting in the passenger seat of the car while the girl sat alone in the back. "The driver lost control of the car and struck a concrete baton on the right hand side of the road. As a result the driver was killed as was Lawlor, Liam, born 1944."

Yesterday, Frank Dunlop, the former lobbyist who delivered damning testimony against his erstwhile friend, Mr Lawlor, at the Flood tribunal, was shocked to learn of the TD's death yesterday afternoon.

He told the Sunday Independent: "I am just totally shocked, absolutely shocked by the news. That life should end so tragically, so far away. I can't imagine what Hazel and the family are going through. I am absolutely tremendously shocked. I don't want to say any more."

The Taoiseach, Mr Ahern added: "I have known Liam Lawlor since we were both first elected to Dail Eireann in the General Election of 1977.

"In his youth, Liam was well known as a hurler of some renown and he represented Dublin and Leinster with distinction. He followed the route travelled by a number of many prominent GAA stars and swapped the playing pitches for political life.

"Liam was elected as a TD for the constituency of Dublin West and during a 25-year career in politics, he was an assiduous worker on behalf of his constituents. In volatile political times in the Eighties, Liam lost his seat on two occasions but each time regained it in the following election. Liam announced his retirement from politics prior to the General Election in 2002.

"At this difficult time, my thoughts are with Hazel and all Liam's family especially his daughter, Ciara, who worked with me during my time as leader of the Opposition."

The Fine Gael leader, Enda Kenny, expressed his "deepest sympathy" to the family of the former TD.

"On behalf of the Fine Gael Party, I extend my deepest sympathy to Liam Lawlor's wife Hazel and their children," Mr Kenny said.

The Tanaiste, Mary Harney said it was with "great regret" that she had learned today of the sudden death.

"To lose his life in an accident so far from home, represents a terrible tragedy for his family and friends," Ms Harney said. She also expressed her sincere sympathy to Mr Lawlor's widow Hazel and to their four children.

TomF

I hope Lawlor's funeral is a very quiet one so we don't have to read some oration from a pulpit about him being a "great GAA man" and "a great family man". I have to wonder whether his wife would even attend the funeral, based on the probable circumstances of his shuffling-off this mortal coil.

murphaph

I doubt Lawlor's family are scouring boards at this moment, so maintaining politeness for them is a waste of time. I'm glad the young girl survived, shame about the driver and even Lawlor.

I hope his wife and family at least had an inkling he was a john, that way the news won't come as such a shock, but Lawlor was arrogant to the last, so they probably had no idea.

Sponge Bob

Coulda been even worse, Liam could have been killed while in the back seat with his Personal Assistant !

Cork

Ray777 wrote:

To all those disrespectful cretins, bitching and moaning about a man who has just died - you really are the scum of the earth. Whatever your opinion of the man, using his death as an excuse to rant about his actions in life, is pretty disgusting indeed.

RIP

Point Well made. The Sindo story highlights how standards in Irish Journalism have calapsed.

Worst of all - are people who believe this crap.

Hagar

Mind your tongue.:mad:

I am not a cretin neither are the other posters. I hope the other politicians who are abusing their positions are reading these threads and can see that they are held in the utmost contempt by the people whose trust they betrayed.

murphaph

Cork wrote:

Worst of all - are people who believe this crap.

Oh come off it Cork! It's not like politicians, apparently happily married with kids, haven't dabbled while away from home. It's not beyond the realms of possibility I'm sure you'll agree!

MrJoeSoap

Cork wrote:

Worst of all - are people who believe this crap.

I don't accept everything I read as given, but are you suggesting the story is completely false?

shotamoose

After reading that Observer story, all I can say is: how completely depressing. I tend to hope that when a politician or other public figure disgraces themselves that in their private lives they have maintained some semblance of dignity and self-respect. But it would appear not:

It is known that, while on regular trips to Prague, Lawlor, the first Irish politician to be jailed for corruption, visited brothels and sex clubs in the Czech capital...

One of the reasons Lawlor preferred imprisonment in Dublin's notorious Mountjoy jail was that he feared naming a number of business associates in the city's criminal underworld. Lawlor was suspected of recycling cash for criminals into property across western Dublin and latterly into eastern Europe.

If that's true, it's a sad and sordid end to a sad and sordid life. It's very hard to feel sorry for someone who abused his position and arguably the various women/girls he 'encountered', but I do feel sorry for his family and for everyone around him. What a mess.

As for whether it's better to turn a blind eye to his defects while his body's still warm, well maybe so. But (again, assuming the Observer story is accurate) I hope at some stage politicians, other public figures and indeed the Irish public can openly condemn what he did in public and in private. He must not go down in history as "an engaging, witty and larger-than-life character" IMO.

MrJoeSoap

I have read somewhere else (Wikipedia, not a great source so I'll reserve judgement until I hear it somewhere else) that the Ukranian "teenager" was actually only 16 years of age.

Hobbes

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I don't accept everything I read as given, but are you suggesting the story is completely false?

Checking around.
Teenage girl = Fact.
Call girl = speculation.
Connection with Liam = None. Police believe he picked her up off the street. So he could of just of been giving her a lift somewhere being the civic minded person he is.

MrJoeSoap

Of course. Common sense might indicate that given Liams history in Prague, she was a prostitute. Also Hobbes have you seen any stories that include the girls age? I'm just curious as the Wikipedia article has been updated on Lawlor, and says she was 16. Just wondering what their source was for that.

Hobbes

Moscow police said it was a teenage girl, and that he probably picked her up off the street. Not sure about age. Irish independant is reporting that the crash took place in the red light district.

Thomond Pk

That post is extremely offensive in the absence of facts to back it up; given that the source is INM even you should know better.

Everyone can draw conclusions about Lawlor's life, and possibly even death. No point in trying to rewrite history, we all have a fair idea of what he was like and what he did. But at this point in time I would have thought some respect for his family, who did no wrong after all, wouldn't go amiss. Not that I'd expect it from the Sindo.

MrJoeSoap

What facts do you need exactly Thomond Pk?

Thomond Pk

A police report

MrJoeSoap

MrJoeSoap wrote:

What facts do you need exactly Thomond Pk?

He is dead, so one doesn't need any facts whatsoever because the dead cannot sue for defamation.

Of course, they didn't print this stuff when he was alive, which says much about their own confidence in the truth of their 'facts'...

Hotblack Desiato

No, it says everything about Irish libel laws.

Many facts were known about Haughey for years in journalistic circles (AIB writing off his debts, his affair, etc.) but no-one dared print them at the time.

Edit: Same goes for Ray Burke. The Irish Press printed stuff about him years ago which was true, but IIRC they were successfully sued by him. They and all the other papers were scared off from following up on it.

Hagar

@Thomond Pk. Can you read Russian?

MrJoeSoap

Deleted User wrote:

Of course, they didn't print this stuff when he was alive, which says much about their own confidence in the truth of their 'facts'...

They didn't print the information about his death while he was alive... eh okay?

Or are you referring to some other information?

ninja900

ninja900 wrote:

No, it says everything about Irish libel laws.

The very laws that protect journalists once the person is dead and says they can say whatever they like? My heart bleeds for journalists at rags like the Sindo...

MrJoeSoap

Deleted User wrote:

The very laws that protect journalists once the person is dead and says they can say whatever they like? My heart bleeds for journalists at rags like the Sindo...

What did they publish after his death that they didn't publish while he was alive?

MrJoeSoap

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Or are you referring to some other information?

No, I was referring to the post that suggested he visited brothels and laundered cash for the Dublin underworld posted above. It's just so easy to make these allegations today, I don't seem to remember seeing them Friday...

MrJoeSoap

The "underworld" claim was made by the Observer so I can't see why you are launching a tirade at the Sunday Independent.

Cork

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I don't accept everything I read as given, but are you suggesting the story is completely false?

The Indo recently ran a story about the provos being allowed to keep 300 waepons - this story was denied by Michael McDowell, Brish and Irish Goverments.

This was the newspaper of the 03 Team.

Was the story false?

I have no idea.

cal29

According to the family th egirl was an interpreter/assistant

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1023/lawlorl.html

mike65

Lawlor rescues fallen teenagers

from Observer story

Last night former associates said Lawlor had been afraid to testify against leading Dublin criminals he had been colluding with in laundering cash into property developments.

Which could almost lead one to speculate that he was assasinated. Well why not? Plenty of daft ideas are floating about.

The pity is I doubt all the truth will be revealed (what chance of some block-buster exclusive story appearing in the coming months detailing my 'nights of passion' or the 'deals with underworld') we'll be wondering out loud for a while yet.

Mike.