Liam Lawlor killed in moscow car crash

Victor

Well does one count members of the legal profession as prostitutes? :eek:

Is someone's name sullied, when they are already known to associate with Lawlor? :rolleyes:

RainyDay

Imposter wrote:

The indo also reported this morning (online at least) that she left the hospital, went to a 5-star hotel but has since vanished.

Clearly, the Indo haven't learnt from their mistakes, and neither have their readers. What do you (or they) mean by 'vanished'? She checked out of her hotel without leaving a forwarding address. When was the last time you gave a forwarding address to a hotel? And in the unlikely event that you did give one, would you expect the desk staff to discuss it with a journo on the phone?

She checked out and returned to her family in Prague, and the Indo still manage to spin it as 'vanished'. There are slimy slugs crawling round my garden with more ethical values than the Indo staff.

Zombrex

Victor wrote:

Is someone's name sullied, when they are already known to associate with Lawlor? :rolleyes:

LOL

Like the joke going round about the kid in school who says to the rest of his class that his dad is a male prostitute. The teacher pulls him aside and says "is he really a prostitute?" The kids says "No he's not, I was just too embarrased to tell them he plays football for Ireland"

If she was Lawlor's legal secetary she might prefer to be known as a cheap hooker

The Corinthian

Wicknight wrote:

No, it is the just the Independent being idiots, big surprise.

These are the same idiots who ran a front-page story on how Berlusconi had demanded the Caravaggio in the NGI to be retuned to Italy, that turned out to be based upon a spoof written on P45.net.

Zombrex

The Corinthian wrote:

These are the same idiots who ran a front-page story on how Berlusconi had demanded the Caravaggio in the NGI to be retuned to Italy, that turned out to be based upon a spoof written on P45.net.

The ran a piece a while back about bullying in RTE (anyone who doesn't know, the Indo and RTE don't, er .. get along ), which according to pretty much everyone I know in RTE was complete jibberish nonsense non-story. I have been ignoring most of what they right since then.

No fan of Liam Lawloer, but the Indo would say Hitler molested South American frogs if it sold news papers.

Lemming

Wicknight wrote:

Hitler molested South American frogs

The cad!!

Newshound

I was walking around Moscow all Monday and Tuesday with my passport still in my hotel room. Wasn't very hard to do
I think this girl may be hiding out with with Max Clifford discussing with The Sun how much they will pay for her story

The Sindo was way outa line here. I cabt say i have any respect at all for Lawlor the ganster, but the Sindo and others jumped the gun on this one. They will pay for it.

Has anyone gone to the archives at unison.ie? If you click on the pdf version of the sindo front pages its half blank. What a laugh.

Hagar

There is a world of difference knowing something to be true and being able to prove it.

I suspect the newspapers were forced to retract based on lack of
supporting evidence not necessarily because they were wrong.

Bear in mind the Monk is driving round Dublin's streets in a Hummer and we
all "know" where his money comes from but the Guards can't prove it, yet...

Hagar

Hagar wrote:

I suspect the newspapers were forced to retract based on lack of supporting evidence not necessarily because they were wrong.

So you think she may have been a 16 year old hooker, as opposed to a 32 year old translator/legal secretary who is now threatening action against 7 newspapers in Ireland? Would that be because the Sindo have a fine reputation for investigative journalism? Or you cannot believe that Lawlor may not have had a hooker in his car? Or that any woman in a car in Moscow must be a hooker?

I suspect the newspapers had no evidence and were forced to retract the story because it was a load of rubbish and because they were very very wrong. I guess we'll find out a lot more in the coming days...

MrJoeSoap

Deleted User wrote:

...who is now threatening action against 7 newspapers in Ireland?

Didn't see any of todays papers, is this true? Any links?

MrJoeSoap

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Didn't see any of todays papers, is this true? Any links?

On the radio this morning that a legal firm in Ireland acting on behalf of the woman has contacted 7 papers, and expects prominent apologies. Presumably it's only the first volley, because when the papers admit they were wrong (and they will have to, to mitigate any damages) I expect the writs to fly.

Then again, maybe the radio was only reporting a story carried in the press...

Hagar

Deleted User wrote:

Then again, maybe the radio was only reporting a story carried in the press...

I'll give you a gold star for that one.

Capt'n Midnight

Did one of the evening papers have the Girls story on it's front page ?

Victor

RainyDay wrote:

And in the unlikely event that you did give one, would you expect the desk staff to discuss it with a journo on the phone?

But they paid 500 roubles!!!!

RainyDay

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Didn't see any of todays papers, is this true? Any links?

See article in today's Irish Times

Hagar wrote:

There is a world of difference knowing something to be true and being able to prove it.

I suspect the newspapers were forced to retract based on lack of
supporting evidence not necessarily because they were wrong.

So you're recommending the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach with a splash of 'trial by media' thrown in on top - right? This is crazy - please have the decency to spell out exactly what you mean here. Are you suggesting that the 32-year-old legal-secretary mother-of-two is actually a teenage prostitute?

cyclopath2001

More quality reporting from the Sindo (30/11/2005):

Clarification
LAST week, we incorrectly reported that Bishop Comiskey's former controller of diocesan funds killed himself in 1995 after his son was abused by a priest. We would like to clarify that he did not take his own life but died prematurely.

shotamoose

The Observer has apologised and withdrawn its story:

In an article last Sunday, 'Lawlor "died in crash with call girl"', we suggested that the woman in the car with Liam Lawlor at the time of the accident in Moscow may have been a prostitute. Our story was based on information which we now know was wrong. We apologise unreservedly to the woman involved and to Mr Lawlor's family for the distress our story caused. We also said he had been imprisoned for corruption. In fact, he was never charged with a criminal offence but was jailed for defying a High Court order to co-operate with the Flood Tribunal. In the same article, we referred to the late lobbyist Frank Dunlop who is, in fact, still alive. We also claimed Mr Lawlor had a history of visiting prostitutes, a claim we now accept was made without supporting evidence. Apologies

I said back here that if the Obsever story was true it would be a "sad and sordid end" for LL. I suppose since it's now true that it's just a sad end. Incredibly sloppy reporting by both the Sindo and the Observer.

[Edit: meant to say "now true" rather than "not true"!]

philologos

I hope that both these papers get a good suing

therecklessone

Observer wrote:

We also claimed Mr Lawlor had a history of visiting prostitutes, a claim we now accept was made without supporting evidence

Is that an apology, or a "we know its true but can't prove it...."?

The Corinthian

therecklessone wrote:

Is that an apology, or a "we know its true but can't prove it...."?

And this is why retractions and apologies are often not enough to stop getting you sued.

therecklessone

The Corinthian wrote:

And this is why retractions and apologies are often not enough to stop getting you sued.

Yeah, I hear you, but that is quite blatant, no? Are they hoping for an Albert Reynolds vs The Sunday Times style trial?

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/6619463?view=Eircomnet

Apology
From:The Irish Independent
Sunday, 30th October, 2005

OUR apology to the Lawlor family and to our readers, first issued last Monday, is full and unqualified, and is repeated here.

Our coverage last week of the tragic death of Liam Lawlor in Moscow was wrong and inappropriate and it was a mistake on my part to publish it.

It was not our purpose to add to the grief and distress of a bereaved family, but that is what we did in the pursuit of what we, last Saturday, thought was a breaking story. Our handling of the matter revealed a serious lack of judgment and compassion. We are deeply sorry for this.

To Liam Lawlor's widow, Hazel, to his sons Niall, Gerald, Shane and his daughter Ciara, we extend our heartfelt sympathy and earnest apologies.

As well, we wish to apologise to Ms Julia Kushnir, of Prague, who was injured in the accident, for references which caused her hurt and distress.

To the many readers of the Sunday Independent, over one million of you, our deep apologies are offered, too.

Aengus Fanning, Editor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/6619473?view=Eircomnet

Apology to the Lawlor family, Julia Kushnir and our readers
From:The Irish Independent
Sunday, 30th October, 2005

OUR apology to the Lawlor family and to our readers, first issued last Monday, is full and unqualified, and is repeated here today.

Our coverage last week of the tragic death of Liam Lawlor in Moscow was wrong and inappropriate and it was a mistake on my part to publish it.

It was not our purpose to add to the grief and distress of a bereaved family, but that is what we did in the pursuit of what we, last Saturday, thought was a breaking story. Our handling of the matter revealed a serious lack of judgment and compassion. We are deeply sorry for this.

To Liam Lawlor's widow, Hazel, to his sons Niall, Gerald, Shane, and his daughter Ciara, we extend our heartfelt sympathy and earnest apologies.

As well, we wish to apologise to Ms Julia Kushnir of Prague, who was injured in the accident, for references which caused her hurt and distress.

To the many readers of the Sunday Independent, over one million of you, our deep apologies are offered, too.

The Sunday Independent and I, as Editor, enjoy full editorial control, as do all newspapers and editors throughout the world within the Independent News and Media group.

Our story last week was published in good faith, in the belief that it was true. It was published, on the basis of similar information, by the Guardian and Observer newspaper group. This was a mistake on both our parts, and we both have to live with the consequences of that mistake. So be it.

Many, like RTE's Charlie Bird, like former Irish Times Editor Conor Brady, like Terry Prone, realists who know what the real world is like, have been critical but fair, and have shown insight into the realities of newspaper production against deadlines. They recognise that journalists make mistakes, that they have their faults, as does all humanity.

But what matters more than this is something that happens every day. A human being was killed thousands of miles from home.

We, too, are human beings, and in our desire to break a fast-moving news story, we added hugely to the grief of Liam Lawlor's family. It was a mistake. And we are sorry.

Aengus Fanning, Editor, Sunday Independent

Victor

REading the Observer apology, you'd think the whole article was fabricated.

Thomond Pk

There was a very good piece by Seamus Martin in todays Business Post showing why those involved shouldn't have got it so wrong. I too was in Russia recently and once the district was named it became very clear that the probability was that the story was indeed fabricated.

It really does go to show just how far some will go to kick an easy target.