to build or not to build...

azezil

I recently decided to build my own pc! Figured I could save a few pounds but i put a list of components together n it came to about £1250aprox. for full machine i could save a few pounds by using kbd, mouse, os, monitor, floppy drive, sound card, speakers n cd rom from old machine but i just priced the full set to compare to a comp i seen on dells site... it turned out that if i went to dell it would cost £1120 aprox.

So i don't know if the parts in the dell are of the same quality, cause i don't know alot about the different brands etc. so what'd ye's think could i put a comp to gether for less than £1k with:

P4 1.5ghz
252mb RDRAM
20GB HDD
GeForce 2 MX 32mb (agp) graphics card
17" monitor
Win 2K
Sound Card / speakers (decent ones!)
Some sort of case etc. if i used my own cd rom, floppy, mouse, kbd, NIC. ???

seamus

'cos despite the fact that we make half of the damn things here, they cost waaay too much. Try sourcing in Britain or even the US(although shipping would be a prob from there at the mo). I'm toying with the idea, but costs are way to prohibitive unless you have a friend who owns a business - he could get you them tax-free

yop

try www.fraziershop.com

They have all reman stuff bought a lot of stuff off them so I would recommend

daraghmcg

Defo the only way to go is by buying from the States, and also given that the Dollar is weakening at the moment too, things are going to get even more rosy for us...woohoo!!!

po0k

just about the config.
Dell get the stuff you're looking for because they ahve a deal with intel, hence cheaper RAMBUS (relatively cheaper that is) and P4s.
If you want to save (performance per pound ways) get an Athlon.
You may want to get some proper cooling and ArcticSilverII with that though, nomatter what spec you go for, cos you seem to have forgotten thatv the heatsinks have to be put on the CPUs by yourself.
I really wouldn't reccomend turning on the PC without a heatsink , unless your going to freeze to death. Or the toasters broken, and your really want some rashers sandwiches.....
besides, DDR is better then RAMBUS for the home user.
/me waits patiently for someone to contradict him.
And besides, feck intel.

azezil

What r nutz!!!:p RDRAM runs @ 800mhz, DDR Runs @ 266/300mhz

I want a machine that'll last! sd is out of the question n ddr isn't that much faster so why bother! (i had initially thought of buyin amd n ddr but when i seen what dell has to offer i thought that the better choice )

po0k

I have to admit I have a P3 800. bought it August of last year. Only cos I couldn't lay my hands on a new Athlon, and I'd have had to wait 3 months for one. i also had no net access at the time so I didn't know about the mail order Irish ppl.

Anyways, I stand by my reccomendation of the Athlon and DDR solution. per Mhz the Athlon beats the P4 in everything that isn't optimized for the P4, although there are some minor areas where they are comparable.
The AMD architecture is just better. Like the difference between x86 cpus and PowerPC G4s. No need for marketing-hped Mhz numbers. The IPC and sheer performance speak for them selves. Unfortuneatly only ppl who have experience with PCs understand the language.
MacOS still sucks BTW, user wise. though Windows9x is hardly a favourable comparison.

RAMBUS, afaik has higher latencies then DDR, which isn't so hot for games, again in comparison, but it does have buckets of bandwidth. For graphics apps. yes.
DDR can attain comparable bandwdith at a cheaper price, so why go the RAMBUS route? Also, Intel are about to introduce the DDR chipset for the P4.

nasty_crash

Why dont you try www.scan.co.uk

they are pretty good!!! not the best but they are alright!!! I sometimes wonder that myself - whether it is worth building a PC from scratch! but i reckon it is better if you buy a PC and then you can keep up-grading it!!!

If you want to buy a good PC try Time Computers....... they are pretty good!! Better than Dell........... Dell charge more for the brand name! Time are less know in Ireland and have a better customer service dep.!!! Time have a shop in Blanchardstown!!!!

azezil

Ok i don't know enough to tell if ur talkin tru ur arsé or not! but what u said has me wavering, as i was never fully commited to paying over 1k n the dell machines are around 1.2k... i'll have another look round n compare prices/ reviews etc. b4 i make up my mind...

po0k

right

AFAik (not a good way to begin giveing 'advice') I'm not talking arse. At least not on the CPU issue.
Its been said again and again on these very boards that Athlons kick the arse of P4s.
Now, ppl are divided on teh RAMBUS vs DDR issue, but I'd go with DDR because
a) its cheaper
b) lower latency
c) You can't get RAMBUS for AMD. Intel didn't invent RAMBUS, they just licenced it, hence the higher cost, and their eagerness to sell it.

azezil

LMAO i just spoted ur sig LOL ... ya i'll take that into account

bonkey

Originally posted by azezil
What r nutz!!!:p RDRAM runs @ 800mhz, DDR Runs @ 266/300mhz

Not a very useful comparison Az. Its like comparing MhZ speeds between Alpha and Intel (for example). They bear no relation to each other.

Rambus *is* faster in most situations, but over double the price of DDR RAM at the moment. However, in practical terms, consider the fact that your memory is only one component in your system.

You are looking at spending 1K, and are looking at a 1.5GHz P4, with 256MB RAM. On the pricelist from the people I use, this would set me back £125 for the chip, and about £100 for the memory. I can buy a 1.4GHz Athlon with 512MB of DDR memory for £110 + £80. Thats 35 quid less, double the memory, and a chip which will kick the 1.5 P4 clean outta the sky.

Also, the current chipset for the 1.4 is due to be shelved pretty soon, IIRC, which means your mobo will not be updateable. However, AMD will be releasing the new Athlon 4 set of chips early in October - expect an additional price drop, enhanced performance, and perhaps even faster chips....but AFAIK, they will still be supporting the same on-board chipsets, which means you have an upgrade path.

In terms of costs...I am currently living in Switzerland, so these prices are Irish equivalent of Swiss francs.

I have built myself a system since moving over here.

Here's the spec :

ASUS A7A-266 motherboard
AMD 1.4GhZ mobo
512MB 266MhZ DDR RAM
40GB Maxtor 7200rpm UATA-100 drive
64MB nVidia MX/400
Soundblaster Live! 5.1
8x Acer CD Writer
10X Acer DVD-ROM
15" flat-panel monitor
flat-panel speakers (Guillemot)
Logitech cordless keyboard & mouse

Total cost....just over £1k (about £1050 all told). Shows you how overpriced Ireland is in general.

The flat-panel speakers and monitor are because I am way short of space where I have the PC. Had I more space, the same money would have bought me a good 17" monitor, and an upgrade either to a GeForce2 Ultra, or a serious set of speakers.

Were I to do it again, I would not bother paying the extra for a 64MB MX400, and would look for a cheaper 32MB instead. The performance diff is approx 1fps from what I can see, and from what I've seen in some online tests. Ideally, if youre gonna play games, get yourself a GeForce2GTS, a Radeon, or better. the MX/400 will disappoint you fairly quickly. I stuck with it because my monitor wont display higher than 1024/768, but even so, I'm considering upgrading as a Christmas pressie to myself later this year.

jc

po0k

Its shamefull that your system spec is limited by how much space you have on your desktop....
Knock out your wall and get some concrete blocks and a boards. Sorted!

Also, about the flatscreen. What refresh is it? 60Hz? do you notice any flricker/skipping at all?

What are they like dot pitch wise compare to CRTs?

Doodee

Right, no 1`here mentioned the obvious...Which will answer the Major Question between Building the Machine yerself and Getting a Dell one..

The reason Dell Have such Cheap prices is that they Buy in bulk and have a Deal wiv Intel and other Parts manufacterors, AS Mr.SyxPak said...
How ever what is being overlooked is the Fact that Dell systems r Custom Built for Dell and therefor cant be upgraded. I have bought 3 Different Dell systems and have had the problem with each which is a bitch a yr down the line..
I would recommend building yer own systems with good quality Parts as you will be able to upgrade it in Future which is a good thing, I have spents almost the cost of a New PC upgrading my Od machines having to buy New Cases Mobo's and such...

Hope I've been of some Help....

^dOOdEE^

Stonemason

Im going to have to agree with Syxpak AMD is the way to go at the moment when you consider bang to bucks AMD is streets ahead.People bang on about P4 but i still remember people going on about MMX being great only problem was very little software was writen to take advantage of it and till i see otherwise the P4 seems to be going the same way.Problem with PC,s is you try to be sensible and get a machine that will last and what happens something better comes along and though your old system is still very capable youll want the nice shiny new one.Lastly if you get yourself a decent motherboard ( SOCKET A) at least theres a good chance AMD will still be using that socket for a good while to come (heheh probably cursed it now)unlike Intel who seem to change sockets more often than my missus changes her mind.Hopefully with a bios upgrades the newer boards may see you past the 2gig mark.Memory wise if i have my figures right DDR is only 15/20% faster than SDRAM pc133 and though DDR has dropped in price SDRAM is so cheap its still worth considering.


Stone:D

bonkey

Originally posted by [FCA]SyxPak
Its shamefull that your system spec is limited by how much space you have on your desktop....
Knock out your wall and get some concrete blocks and a boards. Sorted!

Given that I moved into my GF's place when I moved over here, I dont think that would be the wisest move. She terrifies me

Also, about the flatscreen. What refresh is it? 60Hz? do you notice any flricker/skipping at all?

What are they like dot pitch wise compare to CRTs?

I'm not sure what the dot-pitch on it is. I bought a cheapie brand, about 1/3 the cost of a Sony or whatever. IIRC, its a 75Hz refresh rate. Possibly 80. The pic is rock solid, and you dont even notice ghosting, if it exists at all.

Overall, I'm a convert. As soon as 17" flat-panels come down in price, I'm getting me one. For comparison, you can pick up a 15" for around 300 notes, but a 17" will still come in around 800.

jc

po0k

Have you heard anything on the development of those plastic LCD screens?

I've lost track of them. last I ehard some Irish company had a bit of technology that makes it easier to build them.

JustHalf

Mmmh....

Stone, if I was to buy a new PC, and DDR would give me a 10-15% speed increase, I'd go for it. It's worth it - though I think it might be better for people to wait for KT266A boards to come out

Personally, I've got to wait even longer. I'm saving up for a new system at the moment. I'll be buying it second half of 2002/first half of 2003.

The reason why I'm starting to save now is that I want to get the fastest dual-Clawhammer system I can when it's released!

po0k

Who's planning ahead then?

Gerry

Building a machine yourself means getting good quality parts, and not paying for anything you don´t want. Its not recömmended if you don´t know a great deal about computers. Its not possible to get a machine that will ''last''. I'm not sure if you can get those parts for under a grand, but I think you would be better off spending the money on an amd system, which will save you enough to be able to afford a decent graphics card instead of that crappy geforce2 mx.

RDRAM was marketed to fool people like you. Basically, for each tick of the 800mhz clock, it onlz transfers a quarter of the amount of data that ddr or sdr would transfer, because the bus is 16 bits wide instead of 64. Latency is also much worse, because each piece of data must propagate through all the memory chips. In practise, the pentium 4 performs well with rdram because its design hides the poor latency. If you are thinking of buying a p4, wait for intel to launch the i845 ddr chipset.

azezil

way ta slap me back to reality there gerry!

yankinlk

azezil, if you didn't already know...Gerry is the man to listen too, he aint talking arse for sure....

and to yop who recommended Fraziers online shop all i can say is hardeeeharahar... no seriously they suck beyond belief. they would be okay if you lived in scotland (maybe ok) but they charge an arm and a leg for secondrate (or even third rate) merchandise and then stick a whopping shipping bill on top of it.

example of a fraziers conversation i had TODAY:

me: hi. i want a 15" flatscreen monitor.

fraziers: i have an a grade flat screen, 2 years old, price is 235£stg plus shipping.

me: hmmm, i can get brand new one for £260, have you got any cheaper?

fraziers: well, i have a g grade flat screen, it comes with scratches on the screen. but you can only see them when its turned off. thats only 220£stg.

(and dont get me started on the pcs they sell)

Mistakill

heh, i thought I read that thing about the crap latency of the RDRAM right......
I also think it was in Computer buyer magazine a year or two back, when i actuall read that stuff (before getting my scraggly a$$ online).

Nice one.

Alos, I agree whle heartedly that if you build asystem yourself you have much greater control over the parts that go into it.

Stonemason

Hehehe Dave

You really have got the bug next youll be buying Deep blue or whatever them thar super computers are called .Just a quick question for the resident eggheads what do you reckon to the KG7 as a DDR solution they look good on paper but what are they like in the real world ?.Just like to say much luck to Dave and Gerry your project will help me and alot of people on these boards and i still hope to return the favour.:D


Stone

po0k

MistaKill = my brother
his account still has cookies turned on. Eejit.
That wass me posting from home.

JKust want to clear it up, cos it's happened before.
The old logging method of boards was nicer. i don't spot the 'Logged in user' too well when i'm paying by the minute