Coverage of Liam Lawlors death

bookiebasher

disgraceful coverage from the papers including the Independent that the woman in the car was a prostitute.How could they know this at that early stage of proceedings

Hagar

There are two threads on Mr Lawlor's death already.
Even I haven't the heart to participate in this one.

Ajnag

Im all for free speech until it disagrees with me :rolleyes:

RuggieBear

well he can hardly sue them can he?

BuffyBot

How could they know this at that early stage of proceedings

Well I'd imagine the Police in Moscow have a reasonable idea..

Capt'n Midnight

The article reported what the Moscow Police stated. Also they were on the road to the airport at 1am, no luggage was found and I don't think there are that many flights he or someone dropped off at the airport could have taken around that time

Maybe we should have a whip around for the girl (a non-national) paper said she didn't have a passport. Of course she could be the daughter of a business associate.

Maskhadov

was the girl a whore or not ? the family kicked up a fuss about it but at the end of the day all the fingers do point in one direction.

cyclopath2001

Maskhadov wrote:

was the girl a whore or not ? the family kicked up a fuss about it but at the end of the day all the fingers do point in one direction.

This from RTE

Lawlor family 'saddened' by media coverage http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1023/lawlorl.html

....According to diplomatic sources in Moscow, she worked as an interpreter and had accompanied Liam Lawlor to Moscow on a business trip....

So which is correct, the Independent's 'police sources' or RTE's 'diplomatic sources'?

HelterSkelter

All references to the girl being a prostitute have disappeared from the online edition on the Independent.

Maskhadov

no way !! talk about the media getting it all pete tong. A real cigarette in the eye for the family. That was lazy journalism if i ever saw it.

Sparky

well they did say on tv3 that they were passing the RED light district and when a woman was mentioned to be in the back off the car,it makes things look bad.

HelterSkelter

Sparky_S wrote:

well they did say on tv3 that they were passing the RED light district and when a woman was mentioned to be in the back off the car,it makes things look bad.

That means nothing. I pass Dublin's "Red Light District" everytime I go to the airport.

dahamsta

News Just In. Diplomats In First Ever Cover Up. Film At 11.

Moved
This one is more of a news and media thread.

Brendan552004

According to RTE the girl was a Ukranian translator who worked in Prague and had travelled on the plane from Prague.

Dead men cannot sue for Libel, I am sure that the Indo hacks are aware of this.

I am not a Liam Lawlor admirer, but I think that this time the Indo have hit a very special low.

Brendan552004

Brendan552004 wrote:

Dead men cannot sue for Libel, I am sure that the Indo hacks are aware of this.

True.

However, she can.

The suggestion or innuendo that someone is a prostitute is one of the four areas of defamation that ar actionable per se. She would not have to prove any special damages or particular loss, unlike other defamation cases.

If she cleans out the Indo, and the journo and editor who ran with this story end up on the dole, it will be a great day for proper investigative journalism in Ireland, and another blow for the gutter press.

whiskeyman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1024/lawlorl.html
Star editor apologies on the Pat Kenny show:

The paper's front-page story today clarifies the story and makes clear that the woman who was injured in the crash was an interpreter and not a prostitute.

John Downing said the report in yesterday's paper was wrong and 'should not have happened'.


He said the mistake occurred during what he described as a 'bushfire' as the story about the crash broke.

No surprise it's also in the same stable as the SIndo which ran with more or less the same headline.
Have yet to hear anything from them, but hope they burn for this.
This "newspaper" is just a joke.

The level they have stooped to is beyond belief. I dont care if this was due to a "bushfire" of information as reports came it.
It's like reporting news of a plane incident as an Al-Queda attack, when all that happened was smoke coming from the cockpit.

And did anyone read Eoghan Harris's piece on thanking Ahmed Chabali for Rory Carrols released??
Unbelieveable.

(btw, I still browse the Sindo as my Mum still buys this rag... she says so as she doesnt buy and other "thrash" mags like Hello or VIP and its where she gets all her gossip!)

How would a journalist for the Independant feel if everyone believed they were caught kerb crawling...

whiskeyman

Deleted User wrote:

How would a journalist for the Independant feel if everyone believed they were caught kerb crawling...

depends on how many papers they shifted with the story tbh...:rolleyes:

finfacts

whiskeyman wrote:

depends on how many papers they shifted with the story tbh...:rolleyes:

The MD of Independent Newspapers said on RTE's News at One that they had made a serious mistake and will apologise directly to the family.

The Indo MD said that they were relying on a guy who had been used by the Guardian in the past.

Linking a politician with sex was simply too juicy to have facts get in the way.

Even if it had been a prostitute in a journalists car or politician's car, what relevance should it have anyway?

Some years ago, the Irish Times reported that an editor at the INdo Group was sent on an "anger management course" following an incident. One can wonder how he would have liked to have some paparazzi pics in rival newspapers?

bookiebasher

A Fanning Should Resign ...his Position Is Untenable.he Gave The Go Ahead To Run The Story

whiskeyman

finfacts wrote:

The MD of Independent Newspapers said on RTE's News at One that they had made a serious mistake and will apologise directly to the family.

Michael Denieffe, Managing Ed of Indep Newspapers, admitted the article was "inaccurate".
Asked by the RTE reporter if "inaccurate" was the best he could manage, he replied "until all the facts come out, I'm not in the position to go into that any further".
Yet, they published this on the front page of Ireland biggest selling Sunday "newspaper" seemingly without any facts at all.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1024/lawlorl.html
full interviews on RTE here.
They're making a balls of this.... and I'm loving it!!

monument

finfacts wrote:

The Indo MD said that they were relying on a guy who had been used by the Guardian in the past.

Apprently not only in the past... from Sunday's Observer...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1598794,00.html

"It is known that, while on regular trips to Prague, Lawlor, the first Irish politician to be jailed for corruption, visited brothels and sex clubs in the Czech capital"....

"Asked about the relationship between Lawlor and the girl, the police spokesman said: 'They were not close friends. She does not have a passport and appears to be Ukrainian. I can only assume that they met in the street.'

Moscow police sources said they suspected she had been working as a prostitute. It is unclear what Lawlor was doing in Moscow but during investigations into his corrupt lifestyle it emerged he had extensive business interests across the former Soviet bloc, particularly in Prague."

I'll ask their Readers' Editor what he thinks of all of this...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/readerseditor/0,8221,464507,00.html

Syke

Ya know, I used to read the indo the odd time, mainly cos it was online but also cos I like the soccer writers.

I don't think I'll ever buy it again. I'm tempted to mail them to say that. did they even print an apology today. I saw tha they covered the interpreter story.

Anyone got the email to the editor.

lostexpectation

did the guy from the guardian have a grudge, is he the one that wrote the telegraph story, was there a russian policeman at all?

where did the bits that,

he was well known for frequenting prostitutes vs he was well known for rescuing prostitues come from?


can't find the link to telegraph story anymore

mike65

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1598794,00.html

still there....Henry McDonalds stock has dropped a few points methinks.

Mike.

monument

lostexpectation wrote:

did the guy from the guardian

McDonald is actually the Ireland editor of the Observer - the Guardian group's Sunday paper.

lostexpectation wrote:

he was well known for frequenting prostitutes vs he was well known for rescuing prostitues come from?

The article appeared on the front of the Irish edition of the Observer newspaper, that bit was a non-quote part of the article, with no source – the term “It is known that” is typically reserved for such.

whiskeyman

bookiebasher wrote:

A Fanning Should Resign ...his Position Is Untenable.he Gave The Go Ahead To Run The Story

I totally agree.
How can Fanning seriously continue as editor of the SIndo after this?

The NUJ have made it clear is was a "dark day for Irish Journalism" and have hit out at the "sloppy" journalism and editorial management shown.

lostexpectation

sorry got a bit confused there, they still have "lawler died with call girl" as their top Irish story...

funny the Russian newspapers are now reporting what the newspapers over here are reporting

monument

No, not quite.

The Observer is GNL’s/GMG’s Sunday newspaper. They are sister titles with common ideology. However, the Guardian is a different newspaper, in a different format, with a different editor etc.

Unrelated to this story, personally I’ve come to – for lack of a better word – expect more sensationally reporting in the Observer that I wouldn’t expect to see (at least, as much of) in the Guardian. For example, on Sunday last there was a two-page news feature bit which centred on the fact a barmaid served a journo and her friend enough to kill them, but hidden away in the article was the fact they were secretly sharing the drink with other consumers, and the barmaid would have never guessed they hadn’t drink it all, never. Hmm… am I going a bit off topic?

lostexpectation

i was thinking myself that theres a totally different standard for newspaper printed on a sunday, for many a poor reason... and in vicious circle way this is why semi-credible newspapers have sister sunday papers to use this veil to publish articles and opinions they wouldn't?



this is a prime example

gutter

New blog starts with Liam Lawlor coverage. www.gutterpress.blogspot.com

BrianD

Lazy shoddy journalism. They all claim to have consulted two "reliable sources" in Moscow. Let's face these Irish Sundays can't even get the news in Ireland right half of the time. Somebody (a woman) from the Tribune was on Q&A last night trying to justify their reasons. The Tribune is interesting as they changed their secondary headline under the headline when the second edition was published. Presumably if it the erronious story was good enough for the Sindo it was good enough for them. Bowman did challenge her on it but the ultimate question should have been "Is it right to assume that any young woman travelling in a business mans car is a whore if she can't be identified as anything else?".

The NUJ spokesman had a very good rule of thumb - if in doubt leave it out. But as we now live in a country in almost zero values and community morals why bother, especially if the guy is dead. The journalists putting together this story are guilty of very poor judgement and acted very unprofessionally. As professional journalists they would have waited to establish the facts - this excercise only took 24 hours.

From the NUJ Code of Conduct for journalists:

3. A journalist shall strive to ensure that the information he/she disseminates is fair and accurate, avoid the expression of comment and conjecture as established fact and falsification by distortion, selection or misrepresentation.

Clearly wasn't done. All the articles were inaccurate and used the word "likely" in front of the alleged facts i.e. "likely to be a prostitute".

6. A journalist shall do nothing which entails intrusion into anybody's private life, grief or distress, subject to justification by overriding considerations of the public interest.
What can you say?? The man died. Plus even if the original scenario painted was true, it is not in the public interest.

The translator will have difficulty taking a libel/.slander case here. She is almost unknown and has no established reputation within this jurisdiction. Although she has received appaling treatment from what passes as our national sunday press she won't have a case.

Finally, What really annoys me is that newspapers will (now that they are brave enough and a bit too late) challenge politicians on planning issues but are quite happy to take advertising and write glorious reviews of the sub standard housing developments built on the same land.

whiskeyman

BrianD wrote:

Somebody (a woman) from the Tribune was on Q&A last night trying to justify their reasons.

That someone was the editor, Noirin Hegarty

Anyone watch the panel last night?
I'm not normally a fan of Neil Delamere, but he made an interesting point (and in a comic reference) that could apply.
If it was a call-girl, what would Lawlor be doing in the front with the driver leaving the supposed call-girl in the backseat by herself?
Time is money ya know...

whiskeyman

whiskeyman wrote:

I'm not normally a fan of Neil Delamere, but he made an interesting point (and in a comic reference) that could apply.

Saw that. The joke kinda got a bit lost and think he may have misjudged the feeling slightly - think the issue was a bit raw and there were no gales of laughter to what was a cleverly observed point - so he turn his ire to Barry Egan; and who doesn't like an attack on a social diarist.

Hagar

Passenger in back seat not wearing a seat belt but enjoying the journey none-the-less. Driver keeping an eye on rear seat passenger's activity in rear view mirror, hits bollard, back seat passenger ends up in front seat, dead, much like the road safety ads on RTE/UTV. :rolleyes:

monument

The Observer's statement, released on Tuesday...

'Serious discrepancies have emerged in the account provided by police
in Moscow to The Observer of the events surrounding the death of Liam
Lawlor last Saturday. In the light of these discrepancies we have removed
the story published in the Irish edition of The Observer from our website.
We would like to apologise for the inaccuracies in the story and for the
distress the story caused.'

Snickers Man

The thoroughly mad Eoghan Harris has lost it in the Sindo this week. Apparently all this criticism of the Sindo for rushing in to brand Lawlor's companion as a teenage prostitute when she was in fact a mature and respectable (though admittedly very tasty) legal translator is a dastardly plot by the Provos.

Yup. As Independent Newspapers is the only organisation standing between the provos and an imminent takeover of Irish political life, it has to be undermined by people saying it told lies. Even when it did tell lies. That way people won't believe it any more and the fellow travellers in pinko media outlets like RTE and the Irish Times will secretly manipulate public opinion so that Gerry becomes Taoiseach before 2010.

Well, I guess Eoghan knows all about infiltrating political cadres into a national news organisation. After all, he used to be one.

Aithnionn cuireog......