Pistol licence - What next?

Sparks

CG, it's not that people think you've not been unfairly treated, nor that your FAO isn't acting the right eejit and breaking the Gardai code of service; it's that you've gotten one of the bad ones and tarring the whole lot with the same brush not only isn't a good idea from the Machevellian point of view, it's also just not fair on the good FAOs that are out there and do take an interest in shooting, even getting into the sport themselves. I've already heard of a few who are reading the comments here and feeling rather offended by the comments as they not only do their best for shooters, but are shooters themselves in all manner of disciplines.

This is possibly one of the worse things that we do, and we do it everywhere - here, in the Irish Shooters Digest, in press releases, in interviews, everywhere. And I'm as guilty as the next person. It's the rare spokesperson indeed who consistently resists taking a dig at the Gardai in general over the actions of a few individuals; but what needs to be done is for those individuals to be dealt with, not to slag off the whole force.

Rew

Thats grand and your having a bad time of it but not everyone is. We dont hear too much about the FAO's and CPO's who make it straight forward for people to get their rifles and pistols. There are supers who are putting them selfs out to work with clubs.

This military caliber rumour is just that, a rumour. All we are doing is propagating it which is a bad idea. We cannt condem all of the Gardaí based on the bad experiences with some.

Calling them all ****e isn't ever going to be constructive or helpfull in building a decent relationship with them.

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

it's also just not fair on the good FAOs that are out there and do take an interest in shooting, even getting into the sport themselves. I've already heard of a few who are reading the comments here and feeling rather offended by the comments as they not only do their best for shooters, but are shooters themselves in all manner of disciplines.

This is possibly one of the worse things that we do, and we do it everywhere - here, in the Irish Shooters Digest, in press releases, in interviews, everywhere. And I'm as guilty as the next person. It's the rare spokesperson indeed who consistently resists taking a dig at the Gardai in general over the actions of a few individuals; but what needs to be done is for those individuals to be dealt with, not to slag off the whole force.

Sparks,
Unfortunatly if the shoe fits...... And maybe if there are FAOs/gardai out there who feel offended by peoples comments,I might suggest growing a thicker skin.
Lets face it,how many Gardai from the Top Park Brass to ODG[ordinary decent gaurd] think shooters as
[a] potential nutters who will go off on a killing spree at the drop of a hat
a free arms supplier to the gurriers of Ireland
[c]Some sort of sinister threat to usurp the State
[d]a regular PITA who threaten their authorithy
[e]
potential Rambos with some sort of inferiority complex
[f] all of the above.
No doubt there are many good FAO out there and it is unfair to tar them with the same brush.BUT there are many law abiding shooters who are tarred with the same brush mentioned above by Plod. So maybe those without guilt,casting first stones applies here.Let it be known I will promote as no doubt all shooters will and do any efficent LEO organisation that treats shooters fairly and to the letter of the law,and I would love to hear of them and commend them as well.Unfortuneatly they seem to be a minority.

Also how pray tell ,do we deal with those bad eggs in the garda barrel?you are talking about the omnipotent force of this State,that has unfortuneatly a less than savoury past in self policing,human rights,allowing an independant police monitoring body into investigate them,or dealing with their bad cops ,by moving them around like the Catholic church did with padeophile preists,from district to district.
Not to mind the whole attitude of the force to the public and how it repersents itself to the public.
So as you say yourself,we are a minority,who will take us seriously especially when dealing with this kind of odds?
Rew
the military calibre thing
Yes ,as of now a rumour.Who started it?Going by the posts it came from the Gaurds ,who if they are now reading this board,are now passing this rumour out again wether thru accident or malicious forethought.Rumours can do much damage to an organisation or morale .And they NEVER start by themselves.Hence why I said in my posts anything we hear try and get it confirmed by two independant sources.
Now lets face it the Gardai have shown themselves pretty poor losers over the last two years on the firearms issue.So it wouldnt be past them to try some dirty tricks as well on us shooters.
Lets just say I am from Missouri on this issue.SHOW ME somthing to change my mind.Or to prove me wrong on the dirty tricks and I hope to God I'm wrong on that.

Markhor

Clare Gunner

I agree with a great deal of what you have written regarding the current
licencing arrangements in this country, its pretty poor.
By the way I noticed you said you applied for a large calibre rifle licence last March, I am just interested to know how large, what calibre?

jaycee

Lets face it,how many Gardai from the Top Park Brass to ODG[ordinary decent gaurd] think shooters as

[a] potential nutters who will go off on a killing spree at the drop of a hat
a free arms supplier to the gurriers of Ireland
[c]Some sort of sinister threat to usurp the State
[d]a regular PITA who threaten their authorithy
[e]potential Rambos with some sort of inferiority complex
[f] all of the above.

I understand your frustration ...BUT !

In all fairness,Re the list... I sincerely believe ... Very very Few..:)
For sure none that I know , and I know quite a few.

There may be some who have no interest in shooting , but thats ok.!
I have no great interest in Table tennis and lots of other stuff.

There may be a few who , in the light of unclear direction from higher up the chain of command are unwilling to commit themselves to making what may be later viewed as a poor judgement call .Thats an attitude which is common in any large organisation ..(Don't be the one who screwed up ) ..with people hoping for career advancement based on a good record.

Yes , I have heard some stories of delays , poor communication and downright refusals. Regrettably , not everyone is a suitable candidate for firearms ownership , I'm sure there are people You know that you wouldn't trust with a pointy stick , I definitely know people I wouldn't give a firearm to for various reasons, Unstable , quick tempered , Idiots ..take your pick.

So at least some of the stories of refusals must be assumed to be for good reasons , unknown to us, but the last thing the shooting community needs is a nutter with a firearm.

Thats brings us to the remaining points of delays and poor communications.
What can I say , in every walk of life there are people who aren't good at their job ..again, it's life , some people are just B**ta*ds and some are just plain unorganised. But it's a minority, not everyone, and it dosen't have to be a cunning plan either ...just poor workmanship.

Some of the delays and lack of communications are possibly due to fear of the unknown and the dread spectre of widespread gun crime. In order to deal with those fears , we , as shooters have to identify and address them clearly.


It is a natural human reaction to be fearful of things you don't understand , therefore , the best way to tackle this fear is through strong positive publicity about shooting as the good clean safe sport ..that it is.
Inviting people to shooting clubs ,holding compititions , putting our best side forward etc, and generally adopting an inclusive posture , not an antagonistic one.

If your demeanor and approach seem aggresive , the first thing people do is to prepare to defend themselves and counter the threat. From that point on..negotiation and dialogue become difficult .

In difficult cases , a face to face chat with questions like "What are your chief concerns with this ? " or " what do you see as being a problem ?" and move from there.....


There is an old proverb that states , "You'll catch more flies with a spoon of honey ....than a barrel of vinegar"

It's still true..!

Smirky

Hear! Hear! Jaycee. I think there is a lot of common sense being spoken here in relation to the Gardai, for a change. Yes, people have trouble with some Garda Stations when applying, but I think Jaycee has very succinctly put (I assume a gender) his finger on it.

We should remember that most Gardai are not a) interested in guns or b) even trained in them, and if they ever encounter one it is usually under the worst of circumstances - ie it is being pointed at them or they are cleaning up the aftermath of it. (And YES I know it is not us the responsible sportspeople who contribute to this, but that's not my point). The law is disjointed at best, they don't have a clear rule book & it comes back in their face when it goes wrong and there is a lot of public / shooting community uproar over the Gardai plans to try to make the law a bit more clear cut & standardised for everyone. It is no wonder that some Garda stations baton down the hatches, the Guard on the desk dealing with your application can't win!

I can say, in defence of the Gardai, that my FAO has been educational & helpful to the point of enthusiastic. My CPO has also been nothing but courteous, understanding, practical and level headed. I have not got my licence yet, I may still go through rigamorole during the process, but I will deal with it calmly & constructively, regardless of what happens.

There are a lot of people who have had very good experiences with the Gardai when applying for guns and we are all too quick to slag them off and generalise that they are all the same. It is the age old rule of "get good service & you tell one person, get bad service & you tell 50 people" (not exactly quoted, but Fergal Quinn coined it anyway!). We rarely get to hear the good stories on this Board.

Of course people are going to be frustrated but my view is to try to keep a level head, dispel any issues that they may have & just keep persevering by the book.

We are all involved in the sport but can all be far too quick to lose sight of the fun in it and drag it all down in bitching & politics. I have done it myself in the past, so I'm no angel either.

I'm ready for the torade of negative comment & nitpickling of my words back from readers on this Post but to be honest I'm not going to answer it as this post is just my opinion, for what it is worth & I feel it needs to be said.

PS Welcome on board as a Mod Rew, great to hear the news, well deserved!

Clare gunner

Markhor wrote:

Clare Gunner

I agree with a great deal of what you have written regarding the current
licencing arrangements in this country, its pretty poor.
By the way I noticed you said you applied for a large calibre rifle licence last March, I am just interested to know how large, what calibre?

Steyr SSG K [kurtz Eng short] police model in 243.Basically a short heavy barrel rifle which gives IMO a good comprimise between target and hunting rifle.
Somtime I guess.

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=jaycee]I understand your frustration ...BUT !

In all fairness,Re the list... I sincerely believe ... Very very Few..:)
For sure none that I know , and I know quite a few.

Be surprised Jaycee how many do have those opinions.Rampant in the UK,and if the UK has the sniffles,...etc....etc

There may be some who have no interest in shooting , but thats ok.!
I have no great interest in Table tennis and lots of other stuff

.

Fair enough.but if I am put in charge of the table tennis liscense issuing dept,and I dont like it I should request a transfer, issue table tennis liscenses in an efficent and satisfactory manner to those who want them and fulfil the criteria under the law,without letting my personal prejudices interfere with the process.Lest I want to lose my job.
Just on an off,In Germany our local decision maker who works in the county council[who do this work of firearm permits] Is TOTALLY anti gun.Yet as he said himself,"I cant let my personal prejudices get in the way of the job.I dont like guns,but it is part of my job description and I must do it within the specified time [21 days BY LAW] otherwise I will be looking for a new job." This is from a beauracrat from a society who invented beauraccy.
Wouldnt it be nice to see that working here in any Irish organisation,especially the Gaurds?

There may be a few who , in the light of unclear direction from higher up the chain of command are unwilling to commit themselves to making what may be later viewed as a poor judgement call .Thats an attitude which is common in any large organisation ..(Don't be the one who screwed up ) ..with people hoping for career advancement based on a good record.

Then All the more reasons to have,clear,consciese set procedures in place up and down your chain of command,and to adhere to them to the letter.Which there isnt.Example ;if the Gardai issue a liscense and god forbid the chacter goes off to the local Mc Donalds .There will be hell to pay,but the Super can say.Hey,the guy filled the criteria to the letter of the law and there was nothing to prevent me from issueing him a liscense.Do it by the book and you cant be touched Another rule of big organisations.
But as it stands ,in my case I can haul up the Super for breaking the Garda charter about not dealing promptly with the public.Which I wont do ....yet.As I have now the latest plausible excuse,that he is dealing with two murders in Limerick which happened near where I live.So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.But it still does not explain a six month pause and delay.

I know exactly the kind of people you are talking about.BUT it seems THOSE kind have the least difficulty in getting anything in firepower they want.I know myself and have been personally offerd a clean Glock with 100 rounds for 700 euros.Or anything I fancied for the appropriate money deliverd to me within 48 hours.Of course i could do that no bother and no one would be any wiser.BUT my point is I am law abiding and am trying to do this the right way,and the powers that be are defecating on me/us from a great height.

So at least some of the stories of refusals must be assumed to be for good reasons , unknown to us, but the last thing the shooting community needs is a nutter with a firearm.

Indeed some of them are.However by rights we as shooters must be the most law abiding members of this community,as otherwise we wouldnt be granted firearms certs!

Thats brings us to the remaining points of delays and poor communications.
What can I say , in every walk of life there are people who aren't good at their job ..again, it's life , some people are just B**ta*ds and some are just plain unorganised. But it's a minority, not everyone, and it dosen't have to be a cunning plan either ...just poor workmanship.

In the really real world ,people who are incompetant or making up their own rules at their jobs should find themselves booted out on the sidewalk.With a size 12 bootprint on their butts.And it is because of those kind of people mostly apparatchiks and incompetant but good career climbers is the reason we have so many disaterous organisations in this world.The more we tolerate this in day to day life ,the more we begin to accept it as the norm.Where in the fact it isnt.

Some of the delays and lack of communications are possibly due to fear of the unknown and the dread spectre of widespread gun crime. In order to deal with those fears , we , as shooters have to identify and address them clearly.

It is a natural human reaction to be fearful of things you don't understand , therefore , the best way to tackle this fear is through strong positive publicity about shooting as the good clean safe sport ..that it is.
Inviting people to shooting clubs ,holding compititions , putting our best side forward etc, and generally adopting an inclusive posture , not an antagonistic

one.

Yes,very nice thought indeed.But you require a few things,media,money to buy media time organisation that presents varied disiplines under one common front.Frankly I see that one as a major impossibility in Ireland as we are too backbiting and would doubtless throw each other to the crocs to prevent ourselves from being eaten.THEN this can be all undone by some moron doing somthing stupid and causing the whole press whore house to turn on us in a feeding frenzy.Remember it it bleeds it leads,[and bugger the truth].This is to say we shouldnt do it.But it needs to be handled by somone who really understands the media working mind.And we have had good media coups,but how long do they last and are they ever mentioned in the face of sensationalist [sw]primetime type shock horror reports on gun crime?

If your demeanor and approach seem aggresive , the first thing people do is to prepare to defend themselves and counter the threat. From that point on..negotiation and dialogue become difficult .

In difficult cases , a face to face chat with questions like "What are your chief concerns with this ? " or " what do you see as being a problem ?" and move from there.....

I have not been aggressive or anything with these people,I havent even had a chance to meet any of them bar my local garda,whom in all fairness is helping as best he can.I would dearly LIKE to ask my Super what his problems are.BUT I cant get to MEET the man to discuss this!!! All I am asking is that I and many others are treated like adult tax paying citizens of this country and dealt with accordingly by a public service body whom I am funding with my tax monies and in accoradance with their own public service statement.If that isnt too much to ask these days.

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Be surprised Jaycee how many do have those opinions.Rampant in the UK,and if the UK has the sniffles,...etc....etc

Do we actually know though? There are what, 183 Superintendents in the Gardai - I've never heard of more than a handful of problem districts.

Fair enough.but if I am put in charge of the table tennis liscense issuing dept,and I dont like it I should request a transfer,

Not a possible option for the Firearms officer though, not if he wants to ever be promoted again...

issue table tennis liscenses in an efficent and satisfactory manner to those who want them and fulfil the criteria under the law,without letting my personal prejudices interfere with the process.Lest I want to lose my job.

Of course, firearms are subject to a tad more weight than table-tennis, but to use the analogy, you're not held personally liable if you issue a table tennis licence to a nutcase who then goes off and hits someone with a table tennis ball...

Wouldnt it be nice to see that working here in any Irish organisation,especially the Gaurds?

Yes. I'm not sure screaming at the rank-and-file lads will do much for that cause though.

In the really real world ,people who are incompetant or making up their own rules at their jobs should find themselves booted out on the sidewalk.

We're living in a country where the Taoiseach faked his resume regarding academic credentials and the Chief Science Advisor got his PhD from Pacific Western University. I don't think we're going to see boots on butts anytime soon, no matter how warranted

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Do we actually know though? There are what, 183 Superintendents in the Gardai - I've never heard of more than a handful of problem districts.

Problem districts or Supers with problems of doing their appointed job letting personal prejudices interfere with appointed duties??

Not a possible option for the Firearms officer though, not if he wants to ever be promoted again...

Why? Considering that most of them that I met rank and file who had little or no knowledge of firearms,or were the station dogsbody pushed into the job as they werent much help on the beat.
Look realistically you joined a force and you are going to be expected to carry out disagreeable tasks under orders that might go against your personal belifs,etc.TOUGH!!You knew,or should know what the job will entail. Not much point in being a Muslim and then wanting to open a pig farm.

Of course, firearms are subject to a tad more weight than table-tennis, but to use the analogy, you're not held personally liable if you issue a table tennis licence to a nutcase who then goes off and hits someone with a table tennis ball...

Jesus!Sparks stop being so damn pendantic!!!!You know well that this is an analogy.And as I said before if the nutter fills the laid down conditions in law,he has every right to be issued with his gun,fishing ,table or tiddlywink liscense,and the FAO or whomever is not responsible if he did it by the law book!!END OF STORY!!!!If of course he was doing it because the nutter was in his Masonic club,poker round,was his drinking buddy or whatever or he was told to by the Super to issue the liscense ,THEN his ass may be on the line.Then he can claim he was following orders.You,me, the gaurds,we are not prophets who can see into the future as to who will let his dog off the leash,so therefore if there are hard and fast rules who is issued a gun liscense,everyones ass is coverd.It is when things get bent,crooked,twisted,because somone is somebodys pal,uncle,aunt ,cousin whatever closes an eye [or both] then things go very wrong,then the brown matter hits the fan and we all get it.
Which also is somthing the Gardai should consider;How do you expect the rest of us to obey the law when the upholders are breaking it or abusing it themselves???????

Yes. I'm not sure screaming at the rank-and-file lads will do much for that cause though.

For the last time!We are not screaming at rank and file.We would LIKE TO TALK TO THE SUPERINTENDANTS,who are as it stands the final arbitrater in our districts as to wether or not we posses firearms.Also as a public servant we as taxpayers have every right to request a meeting with these people,within a reasonable time frame according to their own public service charter.What is so Goddam difficult about this ,to do or understand?

We're living in a country where the Taoiseach faked his resume regarding academic credentials and the Chief Science Advisor got his PhD from Pacific Western University. I don't think we're going to see boots on butts anytime soon, no matter how warranted

Well then we are living in a corrupt ,near enough anarchistic third world,dictatorship!!!Screw all this trying to do it right here.You get nowhere!!
The rot is from the top down,how the Hell can you take anything seriously here anymore??? Benjamin Franklin was right, a society gets the govt and leaders it deserves.And have we got ours!!

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Problem districts or Supers with problems of doing their appointed job letting personal prejudices interfere with appointed duties??

The latter. We hear too many stories, but many of them tend to be of the same Supers...

Look realistically you joined a force and you are going to be expected to carry out disagreeable tasks under orders that might go against your personal belifs,etc.TOUGH!!You knew,or should know what the job will entail. Not much point in being a Muslim and then wanting to open a pig farm.

But realistically, you have a right to expect the relevant training for the job. These guys don't get that, but they do get the legal consequences if they screw up.

And as I said before if the nutter fills the laid down conditions in law,he has every right to be issued with his gun

Not in Ireland. There's a specific mention in the Act that says you can't get a licence if you're a "nutter", and the Superintendent is responsible, personally, if he issues a licence to someone of unsound mind and they cause damage or injury with the firearm!

Which also is somthing the Gardai should consider;How do you expect the rest of us to obey the law when the upholders are breaking it or abusing it themselves???????

You just do. That's the idea with Law - it's not a lead-by-example sort of thing.

For the last time!We are not screaming at rank and file.We would LIKE TO TALK TO THE SUPERINTENDANTS,who are as it stands the final arbitrater in our districts as to wether or not we posses firearms.

If you want to talk to the Superintendent, that's one thing (and something you do have a right to do - we do have a right to fair treatment after all); but the bit where you say that the Gardai can't tell their arse from their elbow, that's the bit you might want to ease up on!
Seriously, despite the problems we have with firearms licencing, and despite the few corrupt gardai who shame their uniforms, the Gardai by and large do a ****ty job as well as they can and help a lot of people - it's only ever the exceptions that make the papers. "If it bleeds, it leads and damn the truth", remember? Applies to them as much as to us!

Well then we are living in a corrupt ,near enough anarchistic third world,dictatorship!

Well. I would have said "Banana Republic" rather than dictatorship, since it's a party rather than one man that can draft any law they choose at present...

The rot is from the top down,how the Hell can you take anything seriously here anymore?

You don't. You laugh off what you can, and deal with what you can't.

Benjamin Franklin was right, a society gets the govt and leaders it deserves.And have we got ours!!

And we elected them. So you have to be as angry at every member of the electorate as at the politicians they voted for...

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

The latter. We hear too many stories, but many of them tend to be of the same Supers...

But realistically, you have a right to expect the relevant training for the job. These guys don't get that, but they do get the legal consequences if they screw up.

Then they have somthing to fall back on.You wouldnt be allowed to do this in industry under health&saftey regulations.So why should you be held responsible to be put in a position you have no knowledge of??

[i

]Not[/i] in Ireland. There's a specific mention in the Act that says you can't get a licence if you're a "nutter", and the Superintendent is responsible, personally, if he issues a licence to someone of unsound mind and they cause damage or injury with the firearm!

Yes!!! Sparks we know this!You are being pendantic again!I am using your example from the previous posts.

You just do. That's the idea with Law - it's not a lead-by-example sort of thing.

Sorry Sparks you are wrong.Anywhere else in the Western world LEO are expected to lead by example.No US ,French,or German,dunno about the British,would DARE to show up for duty or act in the fashion our police force do.When was the last time you were addressed as "sir" by a Garda?You will be addressed as such by any US LEO,even while your face is kissing windsheild and they are cuffing you,with a 357 stuck in the back of your head.Ever been saluted by one?The French Gendarmes do that any time when dealing with French citizens.[Apart obvisouly when they are not burning cars in the Parisian streets].Here you will get a "you dere".Or somthing like that.
I do belive it is illegal to jaywalk here,just watched this afternoon to Ban Gardai run across the road here on red to talk to their colleuges,in an undescribely filthy squad car who were having a smoke in a public service vechicle.Small things I know,but it proves my point that the Gardai have either a major attitude problem to the public,or they like everyone else around here just dont give two Fuks.And no I didnt bother reporting it,because as we all know it will go nowhere.

but the bit where you say that the Gardai can't tell their arse from their elbow, that's the bit you might want to ease up on!

Oh!I'm sorry I forgot free speech and critique is not somthing we tolerate very well here.Plus if they keep coming up with schemes and ideas that look like it came from a Keystone Cops movie reel,one might just feel justified in such comments.

Seriously, despite the problems we have with firearms licencing, and despite the few corrupt gardai who shame their uniforms, the Gardai by and large do a ****ty job as well as they can and help a lot of people - it's only ever the exceptions that make the papers. "If it bleeds, it leads and damn the truth", remember? Applies to them as much as to us!

Indeed,and I am not blaming the rank and file.There is no such thing as bad men.Just bad Officers.And this is where it is perpetually coming back to.

Well. I would have said "Banana Republic" rather than dictatorship, since it's a party rather than one man that can draft any law they choose at present...

Err,the term banana republic was coined to describe 3rd world dictatorships.And you can have a dictatorship run along party lines,just ask any of our Eastern neighbours who labourd in the glorious "democratic" workers republics for 40 odd years.Hmm considering that the cheif pooba here has declared himself a socialist as well,and is building monumental works for the benefit of the people and his glorification,that never seem to get finished,not to mind possibly cosying up to a para military unit that has a record worthy of any secret police of a tinpot dictatorship...................Hammer &Sickle on the Tricolour anyone???

You don't. You laugh off what you can, and deal with what you can't.

As my German Grandfather used to say In Ireland you do the right thing you are wrong,and if you do the wrong thing you are right.He was damn right.

[i

]And we elected them[/i]. So you have to be as angry at every member of the electorate as at the politicians they voted for...

Dont blame me .I didnt vote for any of them.I refuse to vote for a two party system that is a flip side of the same coin,with a few varied hues of red or green in their associates.Nor would I vote for party that is engaged in fighting a civil war with its opposition that was decided 80 years ago.Politicans and govt if you ignore it and them long enough .It will just go away.:rolleyes:

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Then they have somthing to fall back on.You wouldnt be allowed to do this in industry under health&saftey regulations.So why should you be held responsible to be put in a position you have no knowledge of??

Same reason that the Gardai can't legally strike - they aren't covered by the same laws that ordinary employees are covered under.

Don't get me wrong now CG, I don't want to make excuses for the bad FAOs, CPOs and Supers out there, and they need to be dealt with because we have a right to fair treatment under both the law and the Gardai's code of practise; but I think perhaps that the bad examples tick us off so much that we mislabel the good examples as well. And it seems only just and fair that we, who are so often mislabelled and illtreated because of the acts of criminals who misuse firearms, should refrain from passing on that poor treatment and be better people for it.

When was the last time you were addressed as "sir" by a Garda?

You'll have to excuse me on this point CG, but following a personal experience (unrelated to shooting, so I won't recount it here, if you don't mind) where we needed the Gardai at four o'clock on a cold wet rainy morning and they were there in force ten minutes after the call, the Gardai have a lot of brownie points with me. And the last time I was addressed as "sir" was the last time I spoke to a Garda at a routine car tax stop.
(BTW, being called "sir" by a 20-year-old Garda... it's not all that great. Makes you feel your age )

Oh!I'm sorry I forgot free speech and critique is not somthing we tolerate very well here.

*arf*
Been reading here lately? I think it's something we do rather well!

Plus if they keep coming up with schemes and ideas that look like it came from a Keystone Cops movie reel,one might just feel justified in such comments.

True - if it was the technically qualified that were drafting policy. Sadly, that's almost never true in this country
You've read the debates from the '64 Act? The TDs involved weren't sure if .22 pistols existed, but thought they'd be very dangerous if they did as you could make .22 rounds with explosive tips...

Err,the term banana republic was coined to describe 3rd world dictatorships.And you can have a dictatorship run along party lines,just ask any of our Eastern neighbours who labourd in the glorious "democratic" workers republics for 40 odd years.Hmm considering that the cheif pooba here has declared himself a socialist as well,and is building monumental works for the benefit of the people and his glorification,that never seem to get finished,not to mind possibly cosying up to a para military unit that has a record worthy of any secret police of a tinpot dictatorship...................Hammer &Sickle on the Tricolour anyone???

You might think so - I couldn't possibly comment

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Same reason that the Gardai can't legally strike - they aren't covered by the same laws that ordinary employees are covered under.

Blue flu execpted?Still and all,I if I was being ethical would request training or transfer to different duties.

but I think perhaps that the bad examples tick us off so much that we mislabel the good examples as well. And it seems only just and fair that we, who are so often mislabelled and illtreated because of the acts of criminals who misuse firearms, should refrain from passing on that poor treatment and be better people for it.

But we need to be told of them.Keeping stumm and not mentioning a who,what where,is no help either.

You'll have to excuse me on this point CG, but following a personal experience (unrelated to shooting, so I won't recount it here, if you don't mind) where we needed the Gardai at four o'clock on a cold wet rainy morning and they were there in force ten minutes after the call, the Gardai have a lot of brownie points with me. And the last time I was addressed as "sir" was the last time I spoke to a Garda at a routine car tax stop.
(BTW, being called "sir" by a 20-year-old Garda... it's not all that great. Makes you feel your age )

Nice to hear that ONE Garda knows to know how to address a member of the public correctly.The only time I ever got such a quickresponse here was when the house was broken into many years ago and one of my guns was nicked.They were over within ten minutes of the call.Otherwise as they admitted themselves ,they wouldnt have botherd until the next day.The quick reaction was because a gun was stolen,nothing else.

*

arf*
Been reading here lately? I think it's something we do rather well!

I meant in these 26/32

You've read the debates from the '64 Act? The TDs involved weren't sure if .22 pistols existed, but thought they'd be very dangerous if they did as you could make .22 rounds with explosive tips...

Que frantic piano playing.:)
Must have been watching the Day of the Jackal:D It is possible to make explosive 22s drill out and fill the cavity with mercury.Very poisionous,dangerous to handle, and illegal.

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Blue flu execpted?

Yes, since it's illegal!

if I was being ethical would request training or transfer to different duties.

Why do you assume they haven't?

But we need to be told of them.Keeping stumm and not mentioning a who,what where,is no help either.

I strongly agree; I just think that the facts are damning enough without needing extra... verbal colour

I meant in these 26/32

Ah, with you now, and yes, you're right. It's a bit of a change from academia, where criticism is a part of the job and where it's not welcomed, but demanded as it leads to stronger work. If an idea can't stand up to honest criticism, it doesn't deserve to be supported, after all.

Clare gunner

Why do you assume they haven't?

well, going by your previous post.More than likely as fear of non prmotion,or it is a more cushy number sittting in an office filling paperwork than being out in the weather dealing with villans.Or it is considerd the best place to put the most incompetant person in charge.

Ah, with you now, and yes, you're right. It's a bit of a change from academia, where criticism is a part of the job and where it's not welcomed, but demanded as it leads to stronger work. If an idea can't stand up to honest criticism, it doesn't deserve to be supported, after all.

[/QUOTE]

Ahh,with you now as well.You boffin types need to get out in the really real world once in awhile.:D

Sparks

You boffin types need to get out in the really real world once in awhile.

It'd be nice, but we're too busy doing the stuff that keeps the "really real" world going

P38Man

Just to let you know, eight weeks on and the licence has been granted. Now just waiting for the import licence for the import dealer.

Clare gunner

Congrats on finally getting it in such "short"time.:D
11 1/2 months and still being fobbed off by Henry St Limerick.:mad:

Riggser

11 1/2 months! If I were you I'd make that an issue with the Garda Complaints Board. They're civil servants and you have a right to service. You wouldn't wait that long for a passport or wheelie bin would you? Of course not. Nearly a year! I'm getting pains and starting cold sweet thinking about it.

http://oasis.gov.ie/justice/general/garda_siochana_complaints_board.html

Riggser

If you own a pistol could you PM me please?