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New Car "delivery" charges
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24-10-2005 1:24pm#1Look at any advert for a new car - it says "delivery and related charges" extra. What is this all about?????? I have even seen estimates of EUR500 added on for delivery. For that kind of money I would expect the head of FORD himself to drive the car to my front door!
Has anyone even heard of the "on the road" price. That's the price that they advertise in the UK and you drive it out of the showroom for that price. Delivery should NOT be a charge for the car to be delivered to the showroom. That should already be included in the (already overpriced) cost of the car.
Yet another reason why I am still looking at a way to import and avoid the ultra rip-off VRT.0
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riccol1966 wrote:
Yet another reason why I am still looking at a way to import and avoid the ultra rip-off VRT.
If you ever find a way to do this you will be a national hero!0 -
Speaking of ripoffs, alleepally, your www.ripoffcard.com has to be the best ripoff I've seen anyone try in a long time.
Please tell me that you haven't had anyone take you up on this ripoff yet?
That's just taking the p1ss totally.0 -
rondjon wrote:Speaking of ripoffs, alleepally, your www.ripoffcard.com has to be the best ripoff I've seen anyone try in a long time.
Please tell me that you haven't had anyone take you up on this ripoff yet?
That's just taking the p1ss totally.
Fair enough, that's your opinion. When was the last time you had an idea you acted on and tried to do something about it? I have used the cards myself and I'm finding they get a very strong reaction from retailers. It makes them think.0 -
alleepally wrote:Fair enough, that's your opinion. When was the last time you had an idea you acted on and tried to do something about it? I have used the cards myself and I'm finding they get a very strong reaction from retailers. It makes them think.
But why charge for them? If you're out to help people so much, why charge them for the privelege?
I'm not saying it's not a bad idea, I just think it's typical of the way the businesses you're complaining about for you to be trying to make money off this.
If you're so interested in doing such a good thing for people, I would have thought you'd just make them available for people to print them off?
Make the cards free for people.
Why make money out of the fact that people are shy and afraid to approach big bad business people?
Why not just encourage people to speak up there and then, on the spot? If I was a business person and saw such a card, I'd laugh.
If people felt really strongly about the service I was providing, I'd love them to come to me and speak up. Never mind complaining after the fact and sneaking out the door with their tails between their legs.0 -
I can make a pdf available that's not a problem. How people print them is another matter, hence having pre printed cards. Not everyone has the capability to print double sided cards that don't look rubbish....
A little more on the rationale of creating these cards....
Why do businesses use comment cards? Because some customers prefer to provide feedback in private.
Why do so many restaurants go out of business? You want to know my theory. My theory is that when a person is asked "was everything ok" they will 90% of the time get the answer "yeah, it was grand". Soon as the person is out the door they come up with a raft of things that were wrong with the meal and they tell all their friends = death to the restaurant. This is human nature. Humans run away from conflict. It is ingrained in our brains.
In an ideal world a customer will come and speak to the manager or owner but not everyone is comfortable with that and neither are all manager/business owners welcoming of criticism.
I do object to the impression that I am ripping people off. You want to know my costs I will break them down for you and in fact, I will modify the website to break down my costs EXACTLY so people can see how much profit I will make. I will also modify the price if people think this is too much.
Contrary to what you think and automatically assume, my intention in this is entirely honourable and I wanted to put into effect some marketing techniques I've been practising and put this into a little portfolio of a marketing campaigns I'm working on.
I noticed you posted on some other forum as well and I really am annoyed you are making me out to be ripping people off..0 -
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alleepally wrote:I do object to the impression that I am ripping people off. You want to know my costs I will break them down for you and in fact, I will modify the website to break down my costs EXACTLY so people can see how much profit I will make. I will also modify the price if people think this is too much.
I don't care about your costs, or how they break down. The people you're requesting pay for your piece of paper would have known the cost of a meal in a restaurant before they went in and sat down - they should have not gone in there in the first place rather than going in, paying it, and then complaining on a piece of paper.
A ripoff is not the fact that something is expensive - such as a meal in a restaurant.
A ripoff is taking advantage of consumers and charging them more for something than they should actually be paying, or shouldn't be paying for at all - such asking people to pay for something as a simple piece of printed paper.alleepally wrote:Contrary to what you think and automatically assume, my intention in this is entirely honourable and I wanted to put into effect some marketing techniques I've been practising and put this into a little portfolio of a marketing campaigns I'm working on.
Which is what I would describe as a "sharp" marketing practice in that you're trying to make money off the backs of insecure and shy consumers. Which is what most businesses which are accused of ripping off customers are doing as well. Taking advantage (in ye're own way) of the fact that people don't like complaining.alleepally wrote:I noticed you posted on some other forum as well and I really am annoyed you are making me out to be ripping people off..
Yup. So what? So far it's 3 people thinking you're ripping people off, and 2 people wishing they'd come up with your idea first. It's what forums are for, finding out what people think.0 -
alleepally wrote:Fair enough, that's your opinion. When was the last time you had an idea you acted on and tried to do something about it? I have used the cards myself and I'm finding they get a very strong reaction from retailers. It makes them think.
Has this "strong reaction" had any effect? If you would use Eddie Hobbes as a gauge of facts I wouldn't trust it. A few of his "facts" have been proved to be exagerations at best. I love the way no tax is paid and your profit margin is bigger than most retailers. To show an ebook as a physical book is a little bit unfair too. What is with the big secret never mentioned, if you really wanted to tell people you would tell them and not charge. Your "mark up" price shown is actually profit margin as a percent the mark up is actually 126%. AS you don't even know the basics I can't imagine that the rip offs are worked out correctly.
Your actions aren't honourable, you are trying to profiteer under the pretence of helping people. You are adverstising one of many buisnesses on boards which should mean you are banned.alleepally wrote:Contrary to what you think and automatically assume, my intention in this is entirely honourable and I wanted to put into effect some marketing techniques I've been practising and put this into a little portfolio of a marketing campaigns I'm working on.
I noticed you posted on some other forum as well and I really am annoyed you are making me out to be ripping people off..
You are ripping people off with mark up of over 125%0 -
MorningStar wrote:To show an ebook as a physical book is a little bit unfair too. What is with the big secret never mentioned, if you really wanted to tell people you would tell them and not charge.
Don't even get me started on the "book". It's like the self-fulfilling "how to get rich quick" scams - get a book published purporting to tell people how to get rich quick, sell it to idiots and make your riches off their stupidity.
The greatest ripoff, buying a book purporting to tell you about the greatest ripoff, which when you buy it, you discover that you've just become the victim of the greatest ripoff.alleepally wrote:I can make a pdf available that's not a problem. How people print them is another matter, hence having pre printed cards. Not everyone has the capability to print double sided cards that don't look rubbish....
By the way, I have a printer that does colour and double sided, can you please make the PDF available on the website? Cheers!!!0 -
from www.ripoffcard.com
The Fuss Free Ripoff Protest
With the Rip Off Card, there is no excuse for not letting a shop or business know that you are not happy with their prices.
Don't put up with that 10 cent increase in the price of your morning coffee.
Very true - either go else where, or a revolutionary idea, have your morning coffee at home before you leave
You don't have to let the extra charge for mobile phone top ups go unchallenged.
Again, a good point. So, use your bank account to top up, or use a shop that doesn't charge for top ups - it's a USP for many shops now. Just ignore the shops that do charge - they'll soon work out why they're not getting any business.
Paying over €5 for a Sandwich and a mineral for lunch? Give the shop the Rip Off Card
Don't give them your money is the best way to register your disgust at their prices.
Can't see a reason why petrol is 2 cent dearer here than the station up the road? Use the Rip Off Card.
No, forget the ripoff card. Travel that short distance up the road and pay the cheaper price for petrol.
Designated driver in the pub paying €2 or €3 for a soft drink? Card that pub quickly!!
Or go somewhere else. Or drink water. Or have the drinkers pay for the soft drink since the driver is doing them a favour.
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Thanks to all for sticking to the subject in the above posts. Take a bow.0
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rondjon wrote:I don't care about your costs, or how they break down. The people you're requesting pay for your piece of paper would have known the cost of a meal in a restaurant before they went in and sat down - they should have not gone in there in the first place rather than going in, paying it, and then complaining on a piece of paper.
The piece of paper is something visual which gets attention thereby creating more impact... You keep talking about these ideal world consumers who don't go in somewhere because it's handy and then realise what the final bill is. We've all done it - maybe you haven't as you are obviously the best consumer in the world and has all the answers.rondjon wrote:
A ripoff is not the fact that something is expensive - such as a meal in a restaurant.
A ripoff is taking advantage of consumers and charging them more for something than they should actually be paying, or shouldn't be paying for at all - such asking people to pay for something as a simple piece of printed paper.
So the print shop that did my "simple piece of printed paper" shouldn't have charged then. Should business CARDS not have a cost associated with them to have the printed. Stop calling them pieces of paper - they are not pieces of paper - they are printed cards....rondjon wrote:Which is what I would describe as a "sharp" marketing practice in that you're trying to make money off the backs of insecure and shy consumers. Which is what most businesses which are accused of ripping off customers are doing as well. Taking advantage (in ye're own way) of the fact that people don't like complaining.
In the same way as someone sets up a car washing business because people don't like washing their car - would you attack and vilify someone for doing something like that? I started off by making a few of these myself and used them and I thought others might find them useful too so I got a proper print shop to do them up, set up a website and decided to offer them to anyone that wants to buy them. It plainly states what the cards are and what they are used for. The price is there, the costs are there, I am not taking advantage of anyone - as I said, I turned a small idea I used myself into a website and offered it for sale. You don't see a need, that's fine - you are obviously what all consumers should be, but sadly that is not the case.rondjon wrote:
Yup. So what? So far it's 3 people thinking you're ripping people off, and 2 people wishing they'd come up with your idea first. It's what forums are for, finding out what people think.
There is finding out what people think and there are wild accusations about peoples motives.. There is a difference. You might do well to reflect on that.0 -
MorningStar wrote:Has this "strong reaction" had any effect? If you would use Eddie Hobbes as a gauge of facts I wouldn't trust it. A few of his "facts" have been proved to be exagerations at best. I love the way no tax is paid and your profit margin is bigger than most retailers. To show an ebook as a physical book is a little bit unfair too. What is with the big secret never mentioned, if you really wanted to tell people you would tell them and not charge. Your "mark up" price shown is actually profit margin as a percent the mark up is actually 126%. AS you don't even know the basics I can't imagine that the rip offs are worked out correctly.
Your actions aren't honourable, you are trying to profiteer under the pretence of helping people. You are adverstising one of many buisnesses on boards which should mean you are banned.
You are ripping people off with mark up of over 125%
See previous post. Don't second guess my motives.
Re: showing an Ebook as a Book.. I plainly state it's an ebook so no one is in any doubt. It's a visual element on the website like thousands of other websites worldwide.
Re: markups - suggest you recalculate your figures... That is wrong. I am not marking up the product 125%.. Cost of 20 cards = 3.36, selling price 4.67... Pump those figures into this website just to satisfy yourself....
http://www.dinkytown.net/java/ProfitMargin.html0 -
I am not second guessing you, I don't believe you there is a big difference. You are doing this for a profit and using market to do so. Most obviously the trick of a hook about a hidden rip off that probably is state protected like medication which has protection for reasons. You sir are a fraud selling snake oil and are using boards for advertisement.alleepally wrote:See previous post. Don't second guess my motives.
Re: showing an Ebook as a Book.. I plainly state it's an ebook so no one is in any doubt. It's a visual element on the website like thousands of other websites worldwide.
Re: markups - suggest you recalculate your figures... That is wrong. I am not marking up the product 125%.. Cost of 20 cards = 3.36, selling price 4.67... Pump those figures into this website just to satisfy yourself....
http://www.dinkytown.net/java/ProfitMargin.html
An ebook is not shown as a physical book by reputable companies. If you want to have low standards that doesn't bother me.
Your right I did make a mistake from the data you showed on screen. Normally companies show their total cost. That is a bigger profit margin than most businesses who pay TAX on profit.0 -
alleepally, why are you charging for the eBook? Why don't you give that away for free?0
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riccol1966 wrote:Look at any advert for a new car - it says "delivery and related charges" extra. What is this all about?????? I have even seen estimates of EUR500 added on for delivery. For that kind of money I would expect the head of FORD himself to drive the car to my front door!
Has anyone even heard of the "on the road" price. That's the price that they advertise in the UK and you drive it out of the showroom for that price. Delivery should NOT be a charge for the car to be delivered to the showroom. That should already be included in the (already overpriced) cost of the car.
Yet another reason why I am still looking at a way to import and avoid the ultra rip-off VRT.
FIAT garages quote an on the road price for their cars.0 -
MorningStar wrote:I am not second guessing you, I don't believe you there is a big difference. You are doing this for a profit and using market to do so. Most obviously the trick of a hook about a hidden rip off that probably is state protected like medication which has protection for reasons. You sir are a fraud selling snake oil and are using boards for advertisement.
An ebook is not shown as a physical book by reputable companies. If you want to have low standards that doesn't bother me.
Your right I did make a mistake from the data you showed on screen. Normally companies show their total cost. That is a bigger profit margin than most businesses who pay TAX on profit.
Where does it state on the site that "this is a not for profit" operation???
And you sir are making assumptions about TAX. IF (and it's a BIG IF) there is any profit on the sale of these cards they will be included in an annual tax return. I did state on the costs page that these are the raw product costs.....
I'm taking legal advice on the accusations made here against me being fraudulant and ripping people off...0 -
alleepally wrote:I'm taking legal advice on the accusations made here against me being fraudulant and ripping people off...
Ooooooohhhhhh, we're all shaking in our boots!!!0 -
honestly if you dont want your ripoff card idea to look like a scam, make them printable as well as buyable.0
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ferdi wrote:honestly if you dont want your ripoff card idea to look like a scam, make them printable as well as buyable.rondjon wrote:By the way, I have a printer that does colour and double sided, can you please make the PDF available on the website? Cheers!!!
I repeat, I accept your invitation to make the PDF document available on the website so that I can print some off myself. You've responded to my other comments, so why ignore that request????alleepally wrote:And you sir are making assumptions about TAX. IF (and it's a BIG IF) there is any profit on the sale of these cards they will be included in an annual tax return. I did state on the costs page that these are the raw product costs..... !!!
Profit is one thing. I believe you're breaking the law with regards VAT as well.
Under the Prices and Charges (Tax- Inclusive Statements) Order, 1973 all prices for goods and services available to the consumer must be inclusive of all taxes including Value Added Tax (VAT).alleepally wrote:I'm taking legal advice on the accusations made here against me being fraudulant and ripping people off...!!!
Whatever about fraudulent accusations by MorningStar, good luck with the legal advice on being called a ripoff.
Surely you would have received this legal advice already, given that your card accuses any business who is presented with one of ripping the person off who presented the card.
Highly ironic that you're promoting a card accusing business of ripping consumers off, yet you're crying all the way to your solicitors when someone accuses you of the same thing.0 -
Lol. Irony indeed.....alleepally wrote:I'm taking legal advice on the accusations made here against me being fraudulant and ripping people off...
If you make your PDF available I will print out the first 5,000 cards foc to any number of people who are willing to supply the card/paper/whatever.
I also have a mate in town who will tatoo the card (double sided) onto any part
of your body for a permanent reminder of your angst*
*this part is untrue.0 -
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rondjon wrote:I repeat, I accept your invitation to make the PDF document available on the website so that I can print some off myself. You've responded to my other comments, so why ignore that request????
Who says the request is ignored. I already said I would put it on the site. I have not had the chance to do so and will do later....Very surprised you are so interested in printing the card though. Incidentally, what home printer are you using and what paper as well.rondjon wrote:Profit is one thing. I believe you're breaking the law with regards VAT as well.
Under the Prices and Charges (Tax- Inclusive Statements) Order, 1973 all prices for goods and services available to the consumer must be inclusive of all taxes including Value Added Tax (VAT).
Where a business is VAT registered (and registering for VAT is necessary where turnover exceeds a specific threshold - which I don't expect to ever reach) then of course all prices have to be shown VAT inclusive. So your belief is incorrect.... If a retailer quotes a price on a website or in a shop and then when you get to checkout VAT is added on then that is breaking the law.rondjon wrote:Whatever about fraudulent accusations by MorningStar, good luck with the legal advice on being called a ripoff.
Surely you would have received this legal advice already, given that your card accuses any business who is presented with one of ripping the person off who presented the card.
Highly ironic that you're promoting a card accusing business of ripping consumers off, yet you're crying all the way to your solicitors when someone accuses you of the same thing.
quote from the card
"I am giving you this card as I feel the price I paid for the goods/services with your business left me feeling ripped off."
Note the wording... "I fell the price I paid for the goods/services left me feeling ripped off". Nobody is making an accusation. The inclusion of the phone number allows the business owner to call the card holder at which point the card holder can then explain more.
You've gone beyond criticism of the idea and are just axe grinding at this stage and looking for anything to add to your critique. Is the colour scheme hurting your eyes? Maybe the font I've used is wrong. have I any spelling mistakes? Maybe you would like some blood ?0 -
alleepally wrote:Where does it state on the site that "this is a not for profit" operation???
And you sir are making assumptions about TAX. IF (and it's a BIG IF) there is any profit on the sale of these cards they will be included in an annual tax return. I did state on the costs page that these are the raw product costs.....
I'm taking legal advice on the accusations made here against me being fraudulant and ripping people off...
You should look at what I said properly. Nobody will give what I have said legal standing for prosecution.
You are meant to charge the consumer tax on items you sell AFAIK. I never actually said you didn't pay tax just pointed out that your profit margin is larger than business that pay tax. You never mentioned tax on your goods.
You are the type of person who probably believes spam and junk mail is a great marketing tool. While people hate it.0 -
Hobart wrote:Lol. Irony indeed.....
If you make your PDF available I will print out the first 5,000 cards foc to any number of people who are willing to supply the card/paper/whatever.
I also have a mate in town who will tatoo the card (double sided) onto any part
of your body for a permanent reminder of your angst*
*this part is untrue.
Done deal. If you can print out 5,000 for me on proper card and same quality I have I will put those 5,000 free ones on the website. If you can also deposit money in my paypal account to pay for postage and packing I will have it as an introductory offer.
Thanks a million.
Email me at the address on the site.0 -
alleepally
Was making money one of your motives for setting up this web site?0 -
HelterSkelter wrote:FIAT garages quote an on the road price for their cars.
thanks for that HelterSkelter. And it made me realise something else - why are there no online car site in ireland yet? I am not talking about a dealer site, but a site like jamjar.com or virgincars or autobytel etc. These sites undercut the main RRP as they don't have showrooms etc. Does anyone know if one exists in our fair land?0 -
MorningStar wrote:You are meant to charge the consumer tax on items you sell AFAIK. I never actually said you didn't pay tax just pointed out that your profit margin is larger than business that pay tax. You never mentioned tax on your goods.
See previous post re: VAT etc.
Also, this is a SMALL operation VERY SMALL... It's more a case of doing something I think is worthwhile, despite you not believing me. Are you au fait with profit margins and such like on every business in the country. Would you care to hazard a guess at the profit margins Estate Agents make for example?0 -
alleepally wrote:Done deal. If you can print out 5,000 for me on proper card and same quality I have I will put those 5,000 free ones on the website. If you can also deposit money in my paypal account to pay for postage and packing I will have it as an introductory offer.
Thanks a million.
Email me at the address on the site.
Send me down the card, and I will print them out.
As for postage and packaging? Where did I mention that?
Also I think you may have misunderstodd my most generous offer. It was for you to make the pdf available and for me to print them out for others. I have no interest in promoting your site or "cause", by allowing you to piggy back on my generosity.
I think you are trying to rip me off!!0 -
HelterSkelter wrote:alleepally
Was making money one of your motives for setting up this web site?
I'm an ideas person. I do things sometimes because I get some fun out of it. When I started working on it I said to myself that if I break even I will be happy enough. I doubt I will break even though to be perfectly frank. Once again, despite what some people are going to believe, I genuinely think this is a small little idea that could spread and be of use.0 -
alleepally wrote:See previous post re: VAT etc.
Also, this is a SMALL operation VERY SMALL... It's more a case of doing something I think is worthwhile, despite you not believing me.
If it's more for the worthwhile nature of the effort, rather than the profit motive, then give them away for free.
The amount of effort you'd be going to to get stuff printed, packaged, and then going to the post office, would hardly make it worth your while if your profit margins are so small.
Making them free on your site would do the good deed for everyone, give you the warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that you're doing good for your fellow Irish consumers, and would mean you wouldn't have to worry about the An Post strike coming up.alleepally wrote:I'm an ideas person. I do things sometimes because I get some fun out of it. When I started working on it I said to myself that if I break even I will be happy enough. I doubt I will break even though to be perfectly frank. Once again, despite what some people are going to believe, I genuinely think this is a small little idea that could spread and be of use.
Give them away free then if you're not going to break even. You'll have more of a take-up from people if they don't have to pay for them, and your idea will spread further and wider in a positive sense rather than the feedback you're getting now (and I'm not meaning just me!!!).0 -
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I know costs on direct marketing campaigns are logistic enough to say with confiedence that I believe you are making super normal profits. I don't think you offer a product of much value. I believe the product is useless and that through general market methods you have hyped it up. I am very critical of such operation that may appear to others as a noprofit organisation and using a public forum as a means to advertise. THis has all the characteristics of activites commonly connected to fraudulant or illegal activities. I would think you would want to distance yourself from such sites.alleepally wrote:See previous post re: VAT etc.
Also, this is a SMALL operation VERY SMALL... It's more a case of doing something I think is worthwhile, despite you not believing me. Are you au fait with profit margins and such like on every business in the country. Would you care to hazard a guess at the profit margins Estate Agents make for example?0
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